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  #1  
Unread 06-25-2019, 11:41 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Forces of Nature

"All actions take place in time by the interweaving of the forces of Nature; but the man lost in selfish delusion thinks that he himself is the actor.
But the man who knows the relation between the forces of Nature and actions, sees how some forces of nature work upon other forces of Nature, and becomes not their slave.
Those who are under the delusion of the forces of Nature bind themselves to the work of these forces. Let not the man who sees the All disturb the unwise who sees not the All."
-----Bhagavad Gita, 3:26-29, Juan Mascaro tr.

I think this passage of Hindu thought captures perfectly the way astrology works. What do you think?

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Unread 06-25-2019, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
"All actions take place in time by the interweaving of the forces of Nature; but the man lost in selfish delusion thinks that he himself is the actor.
But the man who knows the relation between the forces of Nature and actions, sees how some forces of nature work upon other forces of Nature, and becomes not their slave.
Those who are under the delusion of the forces of Nature bind themselves to the work of these forces. Let not the man who sees the All disturb the unwise who sees not the All."
-----Bhagavad Gita, 3:26-29, Juan Mascaro tr.

I think this passage of Hindu thought captures perfectly the way astrology works. What do you think?
Lack of any response leaves me perplexed. I must wonder:

If I could see the faces of all those who did not answer, would I see upturned noses and sneers, or simply blank stares?

In Hindi, the word "graha" means force or power, as in forces of nature. The same word also means "planet". Aha! In astrology, a planet symbolizes a force of nature, ergo "interweavings of the forces of Nature" can be read as "the interplay of the planets as they follow their cyclic orbits".

The passage speaks of fate and free will, of slavery and freedom. It points to the vital role of consciousness in the process of liberation.
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Unread 06-29-2019, 09:32 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Forces of Nature

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Lack of any response leaves me perplexed. I must wonder:

If I could see the faces of all those who did not answer, would I see upturned noses and sneers, or simply blank stares?

In Hindi, the word "graha" means force or power, as in forces of nature. The same word also means "planet". Aha! In astrology, a planet symbolizes a force of nature, ergo "interweavings of the forces of Nature" can be read as "the interplay of the planets as they follow their cyclic orbits".

The passage speaks of fate and free will, of slavery and freedom. It points to the vital role of consciousness in the process of liberation.
Hi greybeard,
For the uninitiated in the 'forces of nature' synthesis, would you provide a list of what each planet is considered to symbolise as a force of nature.
I get a bit stuck other than
Sun as life giving force,
Moon as 'pulling force',
Saturn as gravity,
Uranus as lightening,
Neptune as tsunamis,
Pluto as volcanic eruptions.


Your thoughts could well be given 'sticky' recommendation.

Last edited by Frisiangal; 06-29-2019 at 09:35 AM.
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Unread 06-29-2019, 04:24 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Forces of Nature

Flypaper is sticky. But it doesn't catch anything I want for lunch.

I simply threw out a morsel of philosophy, to see what people think.

The results are not encouraging. I have had more stimulating conversations with rocks.

So what do you think?

Last edited by greybeard; 06-29-2019 at 04:30 PM.
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  #5  
Unread 06-30-2019, 10:29 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Forces of Nature

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Flypaper is sticky. But it doesn't catch anything I want for lunch.

I simply threw out a morsel of philosophy, to see what people think.

The results are not encouraging. I have had more stimulating conversations with rocks.

So what do you think?
My post was meant seriously; a pity it wasn't taken as such.
I thought to ask you to offer some of your innate wisdom to the forum in the form of a 'sticky', as per other posts of yours. Seems I was wrong .. for the time being?

What do I think? I do believe there is a synchronicity between planets, signs, elements, and the forces of nature that govern life on Earth. My intelligence, however, is not of a level that can provide an adequate interpretation of the scientific 'forces of nature' with their astrological counterparts.
I am not a philosopher, and mystic delineations don't say it in a language I can grasp and understand..
Effect of heavy Earth content in natal chart ?.

However, it doesn't stop me from continually trying to fit the pieces of the cosmic puzzle to get the whole picture, though.
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Unread 06-30-2019, 10:48 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Forces of Nature

The planets represent the forces of nature, but they are not the forces themselves.

The interweavings of these forces are shown by the aspects. All actions are governed by the constant interplay of these forces.

But we humans, deluding ourselves, think we are the actors -- that we have free will and the power to control events. That we are in charge of ourselves. We are deluded.

Once we see that all actions are created by these forces [and this includes our own actions], we understand that the forces are impersonal and we can detach from them and become free.

This is, in a very real sense, practical psychology. What we attach to (Venus) enslaves us. Breaking the chains of attachment liberates us; we are conscious of the forces of nature, and they lose their power over us. For most of us this consciousness/freedom does not come in a lifetime. But we can move toward it.

Last edited by greybeard; 06-30-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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Unread 06-30-2019, 11:00 AM
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Re: Forces of Nature

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

Hi greybeard,
For the uninitiated in the 'forces of nature' synthesis,
would you provide a list
of what each planet is considered to symbolise as a force of nature.
I get a bit stuck other than



Sun as life giving force,
Moon as 'pulling force',
Saturn as gravity,


Your thoughts could well be given 'sticky' recommendation.
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=121676

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Saturn completes 2 sidereal cycles and 57 synodic cycles with 59 years.
It has retreating arcs of 7 degrees for 140 days.


Saturn is cooling and moderately drying,
malefic, masculine and diurnal. Phainon makes those born under him dark-skinned, robust, black-haired, curly-haired, hairy-chested, and with eyes of moderate size, middling stature, having excess of cold and moist when morning rising, and dark, slender, small, straight-haired, with little bodily hair, rather graceful, black-eyed, having excess of cold and dry when evening rising, and in general, annoying, concealing, avaricious, ignorant, consistent, reserved, petty, malicious, having many anxieties, throwing themselves down, fond of solitude, deceitful, downcast, hypocritical, squalid, clothed in black, deviant, importunate, sullen and miserable. Saturn controls depressions and sluggishness, obstacles in business, interminable lawsuits, subversion of action, secrets, restraints, imprisonment, grief, accusations, tears, being orphaned, captivity, haunting, farmers, gardeners, workers of property, managers, seafaring and waterside trades, tax collectors, the elders, violent action, guardianship, great reputation, notable ranks, lands, administration of that which belongs to others, fathership of the children of others, bachelors, widows, childlessness, violent deaths by water, strangulation, dysentery, falling on the face, injuries and lower respiratory infections, the skeletal system, the lymphatic system and the immune system, building materials like wood and stone, lead, dark colours and astringent tastes. It chronocrator over late old age up to death.

Jupiter completes 6 sidereal cycles and 65 synodic cycles with 71 years.
It has retreating arcs of 10 degrees for 120 days.

Jupiter is heating and moderately moistening, benefic, masculine and diurnal. Phaethon makes those born under him light, of good colour, moderately curling hair, large eyes, tall, commanding respect, having excess of hot and moist when morning rising, and light, with lank hair, bald in the front and on the crown, with average stature, having excess of moist when evening rising, and in general, cooperating, distinguished, advising, truthful, beneficent, efficient and outgoing. Jupiter controls begetting of children, childbirth, faith, love, desire, alliance, knowledge, justice, friendship with great men, prosperity, payments, large gifts, abundance of profits, governments, honours, authority over temples, arbitration of disputes, brotherhood, fellowship, inheritances, adoption, fidelity, the livelihood of the father, confirmation of good things, deliverance from bad things, freedom, entrustments, treasures, stewardship, athleticism and zealotry, the reproductive system, the digestive system, the integumentary system, sacred objects, tin, brilliant colours and sweet tastes. It is chronocrator over early old age up to the 68th year.

Mars completes 42 sidereal cycles and 37 synodic cycles with 79 years.
It has retreating arcs of 16 degrees for 72 days.

Mars is burning and drying, malefic, masculine and nocturnal. Pyroeis makes those born under him red and white in complexion, tall, robust, gray-eyed, with thick hair, somewhat curly, having excess of hot and dry when morning rising, and red, of middle height, with small eyes, not much hair on the body, straight yellow hair, having excess of dry when evening rising, and in general, natural, grim, resourceful, passionate, drinking, turbulent, relentless, challenging and confident. Mars controls force, wars, robbery, screams, violence, the loss of property, whoring, banishment, exile, alienation from parents, captivity, corruption of women, abortions, sexual intercourse, the loss of good things, lies, vain hopes, violent theft, banditry, plundering, disputes between friends, wrath, fighting, verbal abuse, hatred, lawsuits, shouting, violent murder, slashing and bloodshed, attacks of fever, boils, burns, imprisonment, torture, courage, false oaths, wandering, decoration of clothing, excelling at villainy, those who work with fire and iron, artisans, masons, leadership, military service, high-ranking officers, soldiers, supremacists, hunting, wine, falling from heights and four-footed animals, poor vision, apoplexy and falling on the back, the muscular system, the urinary system, the lower gastrointestinal tract, weapons, iron, reddish colours and acid tastes. It is chronocrator over late adulthood up to the 56th year.

Sun completes sidereal cycles with 365.25636 days and anomalistic cycles with 365.25963 days.

Sun is heating and moderately drying, common, masculine and diurnal. Sun makes those born under him with brightness, fine figure and manly eyes, having excess of hot. Sun controls action, light, kingship, leadership, high priesthood, reputation, authority over the masses, high rank, the mind, motion, loftiness of fortune, dealings with the gods, judgement, providence, friendship, the father, public matters, honours consisting of images, statues and garlands, the circulatory system, the nervous system, the eyesight, especially the right eye, wheat and barley, gold, bright colours and bitter tastes. It is chronocrator over early adulthood up to the 41st year.

Venus completes 8 sidereal cycles and 5 synodic cycles with 8 years.
It has retreating arcs of 15 degrees for 40 days.

Venus is moistening and moderately heating, benefic, feminine and nocturnal. Phosphoros makes those born under her shapely, graceful, effeminate, with bright beautiful eyes, having excess of hot and moist when morning rising, and plump, luxurious, olive in complexion, having excess of moist when evening rising, and in general, admired, passionate, wealthy, gracious, outgoing and friendly. Venus controls desire, love, priesthood, public benefactors, wearing of golden crowns and ornaments, merriment, friendship, companionship, acquisition of additional property, buying maidens and ornaments, agreements on favorable terms, marriages, refined arts, pleasant sounds, music-making, sweet singing, beauty of form, painting, mixing of colours, embroidery, purple-dyeing, perfume making, inventors, the masters of crafts, working with gold and precious stones, haircutters, cleanliness, plays, the supervisors of markets, weights, measures, trades and shops, giving and receiving, laughter and rejoicing, order, aquatic animals, the livelihood of the mother, assistance from women, remarkable reputations, nourishment and pleasure, the olfactory system, the reproductive organs, the secondary sex characteristics, multi-coloured adornments, precious stones, golden colours and greasy tastes. It is chronocrator over youth up to the 22nd year.

Mercury completes 46 sidereal cycles and 145 synodic cycles with 46 years.
It has retreating arcs of 12 degrees for 20 days.

Mercury is alternating between moistening and drying, and common.

Stilbon makes those born under it sallow, of moderate height, graceful, with beautiful eyes, moderately curling hair, having excess of moist when morning rising, and light, with straight hair and olive complexion, lean and spare, glancing brilliant eyes, somewhat ruddy, having excess of dry when evening rising, and in general, youthful and athletic, articulate, versatile, intelligent, tricky, busy, curious and efficient. Mercury controls law, intelligence, speech, reason, commerce, youth, education, writing, games, disputation, brotherhood, interpretation, messengers, numbers, calculation, geometry, deception, theft, community, exercise, service, profit, inventions, attendance, athletics, wrestling, hearing, declamation, certification, supervision, weighing and measuring, testing coins, versatility, critical thinking, judgement, marketing, banking, temple builders, modelers, sculptors, doctors, teachers, lawyers, orators, philosophers, architects, musicians, diviners, dream interpreters, sacrificers and augurs, astrologers, prophets, braiders, weavers, weight lifters, gamblers, mimes, sleight of hand, methodical work, military strategy, labour contracting, rhythmic performance, authority, luxury, renting, display of public service, irregular and disturbed outcomes with malefics, the vestibular system, the gustatory system, the auditory system, currency, copper, varied colours and pungent tastes. It is chronocrator over childhood up to the 14th year.

Moon completes sidereal cycles with 27.32166 days and anomalistic cycles with 27.55454 days.

Ascending Node completes retreating sidereal cycles with 18.61295 years.


Moon is moistening and moderately heating, benefic, feminine and nocturnal. Moon makes those born under her white, with fine figure, beautiful eyes, having excess of moist. Moon controls life, light, kingship, the household, high priesthood, affluence, gathering of the masses, foresight, the body, travel, fortune, appearance, outcomes, possessions, cohabitation, housekeeping, gains and expenditures, cities, assemblies, ships, the mother and the conception, the respiratory system, the upper gastrointestinal tract, the eyesight, especially the left eye, glass and reflection, silver, white colours and salty tastes. It is chronocrator over infancy up to the 4th year.

Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 06-30-2019, 11:17 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Thank you.
These descriptions of the planets in astrological terms depict some of the manifestations of the forces of nature, but, again, are not the forces themselves. But they are about as close as our limited consciousness can come.
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Unread 07-01-2019, 09:04 AM
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Re: Forces of Nature

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=121676
Greybeard.
Thank you.
These descriptions of the planets in astrological terms depict some of the manifestations of the forces of nature, but, again, are not the forces themselves. But they are about as close as our limited consciousness can come.
I would agree, as I was thinking in terms of the natural forces of nature and their astro. counterpart.
E.G. Elements = Fire, Earth, Air, Water in their increasing state of power (signs), that enable life on Earth to exist.
Astrologer Ingrid Naiman pointed out that the elements are seldom in their purest form, but act in unison to create 'forces at work'.

Saturn = gravity, that keeps one 'Earthbound', Earth's 'crust'?
Uranus = thunder (air clashes) that produces the lightning across the sky = electricity. But what produces 'the spark' that sets it off? Mars = oxygen?
Pluto = Inner Earth force of eruption, destroying old yet creating new (land).
etc.etc.

Would Neptune be the fathomless (and) force of the oceans?.

All planets appear to be assigned to a specific natural force in the scientific 'ologies'.

Quote:
Quote:
Once we see that all actions are created by these forces [and this includes our own actions], we understand that the forces are impersonal and we can detach from them and become free.
This is, in a very real sense, practical psychology. What we attach to (Venus) enslaves us. Breaking the chains of attachment liberates us; we are conscious of the forces of nature, and they lose their power over us
Venus is very much associated with the power of love, in whatever form, to which most people on Earth are attached.
The theme of above would seem to be found in Aquarius. A strong Aquarius nature might find it 'easy' to understand and live by. Venus of Taurus is very attached to physical matter and might be considered the immoveable object by many. Taurus forms a natural square to Aquarius.
With the 'nothing lasts forever' becoming more a part of daily life, it would seem that the Age of Aquarius has certainly made its appearance.

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Unread 07-01-2019, 09:48 AM
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Re: Forces of Nature

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Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post


I would agree, as I was thinking in terms of the natural forces of nature and their astro. counterpart.
E.G. Elements = Fire, Earth, Air, Water in their increasing state of power (signs), that enable life on Earth to exist.
Astrologer Ingrid Naiman pointed out that the elements are seldom in their purest form, but act in unison to create 'forces at work'.

Saturn = gravity, that keeps one 'Earthbound', Earth's 'crust'?
Scientists do not as yet fully comprehend gravity
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Unread 07-01-2019, 09:48 AM
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Re: Forces of Nature

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Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

Uranus = thunder (air clashes) that produces the lightning across the sky = electricity.
JUPITER is the WIELDER OF LIGHTNING and the master of weather

JUPITER aka JOVE god of the sky and thunder
Jupiter's identifying implement is the thunderbolt
JUPITER = thunder aka air clashes producing lightning/electricity across the sky
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Unread 07-01-2019, 09:55 AM
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Re: Forces of Nature

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Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

Would Neptune be the fathomless (and) force of the oceans?.
Oceans = the province of the MOON
it is common knowledge that MOON controls tides

The Moon's Effect on Ocean Tides has been observed for millennia
The gravitational pull of the Moon and the Sun
makes the water in the oceans bulge, causing a continuous change between high and low tide
While both the Moon and the Sun influence the ocean tides
the Moon plays the biggest role
because it is so much closer to our planet than the Sun.
https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/tides.html
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Unread 07-01-2019, 10:03 AM
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Re: Forces of Nature

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Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post

But what produces 'the spark' that sets it off?

Mars = oxygen?
Pluto = Inner Earth force of eruption, destroying old yet creating new (land).
etc.etc.


MARS = HEAT = BURNING AND DRYING
new land is created by the enormous HEAT of VOLCANIC ERUPTION

and we have a current example



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Unread 07-01-2019, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post
I would agree, as I was thinking in terms of the natural forces of nature and their astro. counterpart.
E.G. Elements = Fire, Earth, Air, Water in their increasing state of power (signs), that enable life on Earth to exist.
Astrologer Ingrid Naiman pointed out that the elements are seldom in their purest form, but act in unison to create 'forces at work'.

Saturn = gravity, that keeps one 'Earthbound', Earth's 'crust'?
Uranus = thunder (air clashes) that produces the lightning across the sky = electricity. But what produces 'the spark' that sets it off? Mars = oxygen?
Pluto = Inner Earth force of eruption, destroying old yet creating new (land).
etc.etc.

Would Neptune be the fathomless (and) force of the oceans?.

All planets appear to be assigned to a specific natural force in the scientific 'ologies'.



Venus is very much associated with the power of love, in whatever form, to which most people on Earth are attached.
The theme of above would seem to be found in Aquarius. A strong Aquarius nature might find it 'easy' to understand and live by. Venus8 of Taurus is very attached to physical matter and might be considered the immoveable object by many. Taurus forms a natural square to Aquarius.
With the 'nothing lasts forever' becoming more a part of daily life, it would seem that the Age of Aquarius has certainly made its appearance.

Venus is not just love and beauty and all things cuddly.

When negative she is lust, aversion, sensuality, licence, lack of values. She is self-indulgent, slothful, and unwilling to fend for herself. Afflicted, she can bring isolation and alienation, sexual deviation, austerity, a general dissatisfaction. Venus is by no means all roses and clover.
She is the whore, and wanton.

Venus, fundamentally, represents the power of attraction and attachment. She was the goddess of war in several unrelated cultures.

What I meant was that by possessing something it may then possess us; we become that thing's slave.

All of this means that if Venus occupies a preeminent position in the chart and is also afflicted, then the life will display the more negative manifestations.

If not so prominent, but still afflicted, then her influence is not so pervasive but still felt. How to interpret it depends on the particular chart.

Last edited by greybeard; 07-01-2019 at 06:19 PM.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 02:50 AM
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Smile Re: Forces of Nature

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Venus is not just love and beauty and all things cuddly.

When negative she is lust, aversion, sensuality, licence, lack of values. She is self-indulgent, slothful, and unwilling to fend for herself. Afflicted, she can bring isolation and alienation, sexual deviation, austerity, a general dissatisfaction. Venus is by no means all roses and clover.
She is the whore, and wanton.

Venus, fundamentally, represents the power of attraction and attachment. She was the goddess of war in several unrelated cultures.

What I meant was that by possessing something it may then possess us; we become that thing's slave.

All of this means that if Venus occupies a preeminent position in the chart and is also afflicted, then the life will display the more negative manifestations.

If not so prominent, but still afflicted, then her influence is not so pervasive but still felt. How to interpret it depends on the particular chart.
Venus has a two-fold influence, as the original, ancient Sumerian version, shows: Goddess of Love; and, Goddess of Truth and Justice. That's her in the courtroom, blindfolded to represent her impartiality, holding the balance-scales of her Domicle-sign, Libra, and the sword of the Air-Element in tarot.
The ancient Greeks went with only the Love theme, which is incomplete.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Venus has a two-fold influence, as the original, ancient Sumerian version, shows: Goddess of Love; and, Goddess of Truth and Justice. That's her in the courtroom, blindfolded to represent her impartiality, holding the balance-scales of her Domicle-sign, L8ibra, and the sword of the Air-Element in tarot.
The ancient Greeks went with only the Love theme, which is incomplete.
I believe Venus is Lady of Libra.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 03:08 AM
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I believe Venus is Lady of Libra.
Ancient Sumerians called her Queen of the Heavens. She's a Sign-ruler Domicled in Libra. The first version was Inanna, followed closely by Ishtar, which is the name the Babylonians continued to use.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 04:26 AM
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I'm liking this "Magnetic Field Matrix" idea, into which we're born and raised. We each have our own magnetic field which interacts with the entire matrix. That's how we can affect what we view as "reality".
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Unread 07-02-2019, 05:58 AM
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Smile Re: Forces of Nature

Pluto/Charon is a double-Planet, with a dynamic effect on the matrix, even though at the outer limit.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 07:12 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Forces of Nature

Words to express meaningful thoughts are insufficient when there are two sides of the same fence. Modern astrology versus Hellenistic/traditional/ mystical methodologies of interpretation have yet to find agreement.

In terms of internalised forces, my own thoughts are that it is the planets beyond Saturn (manifestation) that are conscious-raising of content and provide insight into, quote:
the man who knows the relation between the forces of Nature and actions, sees how some forces of nature work upon other forces of Nature, and becomes not their slave.
Those who are under the delusion of the forces of Nature bind themselves to the work of these forces. Let not the man who sees the All disturb the unwise who sees not the All."


I'm still of simple mind and in the category of the 'unwise'.

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Unread 07-02-2019, 07:26 AM
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ardentika ardentika is offline
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Re: Forces of Nature

What are you really asking us to ponder on this topic?

Yes most people believe in free will and don't believe planets bind them or control them. What else?
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Unread 07-02-2019, 11:29 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
What are you really asking us to ponder on this topic?

Yes most people believe in free will and don't believe planets bind them or control them. What else?
The nice thing about free will is that you are free to believe whatever you want. Peace.
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Unread 07-02-2019, 11:42 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Forces of Nature

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
The nice thing about free will is that you are free to believe whatever you want. Peace.
Or....did you REALLY decide what to believe, or does it just FEEL like you did?
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Unread 07-02-2019, 12:11 PM
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ardentika ardentika is offline
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Or....did you REALLY decide what to believe, or does it just FEEL like you did?
Ahhahaha please don't go there xD
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Unread 07-02-2019, 03:14 PM
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Opal Opal is offline
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Re: Forces of Nature

Has anyone else read, that originally Venus was considered a masculine and rather war like entity?

Now, Venus is associated to Taurus first, and Libra second. If there is another planet of representation for one of them, it will be for Libra. Taurus is first and as with how planets have been assigned thus far, the new planet would be for Libra.
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