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  #26  
Unread 11-08-2018, 08:38 PM
AbbyE AbbyE is offline
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Re: Looking for insight - Obsessional fears and scary thoughts

kshantaram - thanks for the info. I'm trying to go through it gradually and make sense of each part, I still only know the basics of astrology but this helps.


ardentika - it's reassuring to hear others who can relate. I have been hanging on to spirituality throughout this, and the obsessive doubting fears reached their worst point when they began attacking this itself in withdrawal. Sometimes I feel like I've been cut off from 'God' itself, but then there will be moments of random light. I think the gratitude practice is definitely a good idea, and it does feel like the beginning of a process of huge maturation. I appreciate your thoughts, I hope things are balancing out for you.


Rahu - thanks again for your response. In terms of being medicated at 16, this began when I started taking the contraceptive pill. I feel this had a huge impact because ten years later, when I stopped it, I experienced a period of huge recovery. Many of my symptoms literally disappeared. I've since read that contraceptives can trigger mental illness in women. I went on this at 16, my OCD became very severe and things spiraled from there, after which I was put on one medication after another. Other than that my life was relatively normal for a teenager, I had anxiety and things were a bit rocky at home as my Mum had another two kids, but I also had a great boyfriend who was my best friend, was doing very well in school etc. Not great, but not terrible. I was prone to anxiety and feel the pill tipped me over the edge, but it was a huge shock and my life changed drastically from then.



It's very confusing to take in, but I'm always open to consider things and explore new options. I just really don't think my father would have had any part in this, he was genuinely a harmless man who suffered a lot. He worked most of the week but would read us a story every night when he came home. If those positive memories and having love for him are another sign of abuse then it feel like I could literally interpret any of it as such, and therefore there's no way of knowing? Surely I would have acted out in some way as a child, or had some kind of strange feeling around him? If anything I'd suspect my grandfather, but it just doesn't feel 'right' when thinking about my dad. My mum loved him too and they had a very good relationship up until shortly before he died.



I do have a 'weird' memory about staying at a friend's house from school once. I woke up in the night to see her father leaving the room quietly. He could have just been checking on us, but I don't know. It's just something I remember.



And yes, I understand sexual abuse is far more prevalent than previously thought, and a lot of it is being uncovered lately. I was generally exposed to more instability than any actual abuse, which is why I'm so confused. My Mum suffered with a huge amount of stress over the years and had episodes of anger, but those weren't constant. She did everything she could with what she had to care for us and do her best, despite suffering from her own mental health struggles. Apart from that we weren't really around anyone else, it was always just me, my younger brother and sister, and mum.



Also, given a background in Buddhist meditation practices, I do believe we can carry other people's trauma as well as past life trauma, within us.

So I'm not sure if I'm on the right track with all this or going down an unnecessary rabbit hole. Because of the huge panic attack episode I had a while ago, along with the physical symptoms of withdrawal, the huge waves of it, and cognitive confusion etc, I'm in constant fight or flight mode and just attracting fearful potentials and situations. So I don't know whether considering this is part of that or a real possibility.



But yeah, you're right that I can work through things in therapy. It's so difficult with this kind of protracted withdrawal to know what's what, because people's experience with it can be so extreme. The CBT therapy that I've received now and in the past for the OCD has helped a lot, but the therapy for OCD focuses on the fact that the fears are always irrational...that's why the person has such a severe reaction, they are their worst fears or potentials. So if all this were true, it would sort of go against all the beneficial therapy I've done which is based on acknowledging the thoughts as irrational, unimportant thoughts and allowing them to come and go. I've found CBT has given me ways to think outside of this restrictive box, and see things in a more balanced way. But sexual abuse therapy would be totally different, and it would almost validate some irrational fears. Meaning it wouldn't be OCD (which I definitely have, I'm a 'classic' case of it). Hence my confusion lol.


Anyway, thanks again. I'm not sure where to go with this but I'm just going to try not to let it slip into an obsessional pit. I have brought it up in somatic experiencing therapy too, so there's support for whatever comes up.

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  #27  
Unread 11-09-2018, 09:04 AM
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ardentika ardentika is offline
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Re: Looking for insight - Obsessional fears and scary thoughts

The obsessive overthinking and doubting fear is something I'm very familiar with. I have Pisces/Virgo energy too, perhaps even Pisces asc (since my birth time is a bit unclear with a few min) . Each time I give in to that I get into awful depression and I see no purpose of living even. However, what I've learned from my experience is that, our brain wants to see an outcome of something we don't know yet, and some people are wired to expect the worse when they go in the future mentally, hence where this all comes from. Now when something like that happens I just tell myself "Okay, I don't know. I will wait and see." and usually that makes me feel better and grounded. Needless to say it's never that bad as it is in my head. That's a very typical unbalanced Virgo energy.

I'm sure you will persevere this. Perhaps right now you are shedding some layers of your persona so that a new one can be born. That's a methaphorical death of the ego/self so it's normal that it's painful. Pain purifies. Scorpio knows this the best. But once you allow it to happen and give in instead of fight against it, you will see the immediate change. I think that's the key to everything. If something is stronger than you, give in to it and see what it wants to show you rather than fight against it. Things are rarely as they seem. Good luck! Blessings your way ^^
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  #28  
Unread 11-09-2018, 10:04 AM
AbbyE AbbyE is offline
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Re: Looking for insight - Obsessional fears and scary thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardentika View Post
Perhaps right now you are shedding some layers of your persona so that a new one can be born. That's a methaphorical death of the ego/self so it's normal that it's painful. Pain purifies. Scorpio knows this the best. But once you allow it to happen and give in instead of fight against it, you will see the immediate change. I think that's the key to everything. If something is stronger than you, give in to it and see what it wants to show you rather than fight against it. Things are rarely as they seem. Good luck! Blessings your way ^^

It definitely feels like a death of the self, shedding of all old patterns and getting stuck in deeply entrenched ones. Thank you for this encouragement, I've been feeling a strong need to just be as still as possible amid all the chaos. I'm usually so paralyzed with indecision it's just like being on a torture merry-go-round. But then I also get little moments of hope, which keeps me putting one foot in front of the other. All the best on your journey x
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  #29  
Unread 11-09-2018, 05:48 PM
rahu rahu is offline
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Re: Looking for insight - Obsessional fears and scary thoughts

[QUOTE=AbbyE;926008]
Surely I would have acted out in some way as a child, or had some kind of strange feeling around him? If anything I'd suspect my grandfather, but it just doesn't feel 'right' when thinking about my dad. My mum loved him too and they had a very good relationship up until shortly before he died.

as i mentioned, a victim can fall in love with the abuser, so not having strange feelings about your father may or may not be relevant.

but you grandfather's vibration could indicate that the abusive dynamics are generational, meaning that your family passes these abusive behaviors down. and because these behaviors are deep within the family psyche, there can be no conscious acknowledgement, that anything is amiss.

and there must be something deeply dysfunctional for your father to have killed himself.



I do have a 'weird' memory about staying at a friend's house from school once. I woke up in the night to see her father leaving the room quietly. He could have just been checking on us, but I don't know. It's just something I remember.

hmmm.circumstantial evidence that maybe you friend was subject to similar abusive dynamics. that is very abnormal for the father to be in your room when you and she were sleeping. and the general history of abuse which is all around must be considered... that is why you were unfazes when your brother had these exdperiences


. Apart from that we weren't really around anyone else, it was always just me, my younger brother and sister, and mum.

social isolation is often a condition found in many families with abusive histories
So I'm not sure if I'm on the right track with all this or going down an unnecessary rabbit hole. Because of the huge panic attack episode I had a while ago, along with the physical symptoms of withdrawal, the huge waves of it, and cognitive confusion etc, I'm in constant fight or flight mode and just attracting fearful potentials and situations. So I don't know whether considering this is part of that or a real possibility.

no you are on the right track because you have unwittingly brought up one of the major markers of severe abuse. this is your struggle with the fight or flight dynamic.

when placed in a severely threatening situation,a human has two separate response... fight of flight. both decisions create a cascade of hormones in your nervous system. but the chemical/hormones of these 2 responses, fight or flight ,are totally different.in fact they are chemical reactive to each other. so when a child is in an abusive situation, caught between dynamics of pain/pleasure,love/hate which they can not escape from,their systems produces both chemical/hormonal groups at the same time..... the affect is analogous to pushing on the accelerator of a car at the same time you push the brakes. this causes the system to break down. in the auto analogy, the clutch burns out. in human reality, the immune systems breaks down and can not longer distinguish the appropriate behavior of flight of fight. this causes auto immune diseases in which the immune system attacks healthy cells........the immune system has lost the capacity to distinguish healthy and diseased cells.
this is why i've asked about auto immune diseases. you have given the answer i was looking for.... your fight and flight responses are endemic in your psychology, which suggest a early period in your life when you were confused about"life/death", pleasure pain, love/hate responses. so though you don't seem to have physical auto immune dysfunctions, you are subject to the mental chaos of the fight or flight dynamic

But yeah, you're right that I can work through things in therapy. It's so difficult with this kind of protracted withdrawal to know what's what, because people's experience with it can be so extreme.

Anyway, thanks again. I'm not sure where to go with this but I'm just going to try not to let it slip into an obsessional pit. I have brought it up in somatic experiencing therapy too, so there's support for whatever comes up.
love
rahu
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  #30  
Unread 11-10-2018, 11:47 AM
AbbyE AbbyE is offline
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Re: Looking for insight - Obsessional fears and scary thoughts

Thanks rahu. Can I ask what you mean by generational abuse being passed down? As in do you mean my grandfather may have been abusive to my father? Or that they both could have been? My father was always quite emotionally repressed by his parents, they didn't believe in depression so never talked about it. He kept it to himself, then had an episode of mental ill health after a period of traveling before I was born. That's when they medication started and the cyclical episodes of depression every 2 years (approx). He was also given electric shock therapy before he died which they admitted was too much and lead him to have the huge crash which resulted in suicide.

I get what you're saying about fight or flight. It's also important to remember that withdrawal from ssri medication has this effect - I'm a member of a support forum and most of the members suffer from this due to nervous system damage and hypersensitivity from the drugs.
My mum experienced serious emotional abuse and neglect and has all the typical signs, including physical illness. Although she is starting to address it now and she is a good person for me to discuss this with - she said she wouldn't rule it out and has suspicions about my grandparents in relation to this, but not my father. (same as my thoughts)

I also forgot to mention I had a minor assault age 17. It was minor in that I woke up at a friends and the person was attempting to put their hand up the leg of my jeans, and also tried to resch into my top. However they were heard by others in the house and caught in the room, and later charged with assault. I cant say this affected me majorly, although maybe it did subconsciously.

Again, even though this is tough stuff to talk about it's good to explore it. If there is something there I want to address it.
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  #31  
Unread 11-10-2018, 03:13 PM
kshantaram kshantaram is offline
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Re: Looking for insight - Obsessional fears and scary thoughts

[QUOTE=AbbyE;926008]

kshantaram - thanks for the info. I'm trying to go through it gradually and make sense of each part,
I still only know the basics of astrology but this helps.



do share salient pointwise feedbacks how true-insightful etc traits,talents, health, events, prospects, etc etc etc


thanks for the prompt kind ack, kshantaram
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Last edited by kshantaram; 11-10-2018 at 03:15 PM.
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  #32  
Unread 11-13-2018, 08:46 PM
rahu rahu is offline
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Re: Looking for insight - Obsessional fears and scary thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyE View Post
Thanks rahu. Can I ask what you mean by generational abuse being passed down? As in do you mean my grandfather may have been abusive to my father? Or that they both could have been? My father was always quite emotionally repressed by his parents, they didn't believe in depression so never talked about it. He kept it to himself, then had an episode of mental ill health after a period of traveling before I was born. That's when they medication started and the cyclical episodes of depression every 2 years (approx). He was also given electric shock therapy before he died which they admitted was too much and lead him to have the huge crash which resulted in suicide.

I get what you're saying about fight or flight. It's also important to remember that withdrawal from ssri medication has this effect - I'm a member of a support forum and most of the members suffer from this due to nervous system damage and hypersensitivity from the drugs.
My mum experienced serious emotional abuse and neglect and has all the typical signs, including physical illness. Although she is starting to address it now and she is a good person for me to discuss this with - she said she wouldn't rule it out and has suspicions about my grandparents in relation to this, but not my father. (same as my thoughts)

I also forgot to mention I had a minor assault age 17. It was minor in that I woke up at a friends and the person was attempting to put their hand up the leg of my jeans, and also tried to resch into my top. However they were heard by others in the house and caught in the room, and later charged with assault. I cant say this affected me majorly, although maybe it did subconsciously.

Again, even though this is tough stuff to talk about it's good to explore it. If there is something there I want to address it.
hi again AbbyE

I looked at your fathers chart, and it agrees with the premise of your grandfather as a source of abuse toward your father, as Jupiter is square to nessus.this aspect can indicate sexual abuse, hand it points toward generational abuse.

Can I ask what you mean by generational abuse being passed down?

this means that the abuse has been passé down from generation to generation.when this occurs the abuse is not seen or felt as abuse but is a inherent psychological dynamic. it can be subconscious, though it can also be conscious in some situation where the abuser feels this activity is part of the emotional relationship.

a tentative generalizations is that conscious generational abuse is found in the ruling economic classes and the lower economic classes. generally it seems middle class morality pushes sexual abuse into the unconscious or subconscious . personally, president(cough)trump's chart shows a strong incestual tendency toward his daughter. (there are certainly numerous pictures of ivanka and Donald in what could be construed as sexual positioning.)

generational abuse is often associated with cultural sexual abuse, that is sexual activity between family is accepted.
the clearest example of this is the Magi, the priest of the Medes and Persian and other countries in the vicinity.in fact a magi priest had to have been born out of a incestual union of mother and son, in that , father/daughter, mother/son and sibling sexuality were considered the highest form of love and were sacred activities .

your father had a very interesting stellium of Uranus/mercury/Venus. this does not by itself imply a sexual relationship. but it shows the great loveandaff3ection your father had for you and vice versa. tis stellium is associated with strong psychic/astral abilities. The uranus/venus conjunction can be associated with sexual activity but,again ,this is not a definitive aspect for abuse.

your named asteroid Abby is conjunct your father's sun and these are square to Lilith.so the depth of feeling and connection with you and you father is clearly present.

but the Saturn/chiron midpoint is conjunct to eris which might be construed as a unnatural sexual attraction to you.

another interesting aspect is the eros/psyche midpoint conjunct Neptune with Neptune square to pholous. this by itself is not abuse but rather shows a very deep almost spiritual love for you. the pholus square to these points makes me pause as it could show hidden emotional dynamics in the relatiojnship. this pattern also makes me wonder if there was any alcohol or drug use.

but with the Saturn/Orcus midpoint square to the sun and asteroid abbe,the incestual dynamic, again, is rather strong. the Neptune/pholous pattern could argument this type of behavior through deceptive and possibly repressed memories.

the composite chart of you and your father is very problematic in this area as Saturn is conjunct the node and square to abby and mars. frankly, the example I used early about a female client.... she had mars square to the Saturn/node conjunction . Saturn conjunct the node is a classic abusive/incestual aspect in natal readings

the sun/nessus midpoint is conjunct orcus in the composite and square to the moon. though his time is uncertain, the moon is square to orcus and would be in orb to this conjunction regardless of the exact time of his birth.
this certainly has abuse qualities.

the fact of his suicide and your deeply troubled emotional states still makes me think there is something to this.
themoon position inboth charts, makes your mother a important part of this puzzle.

another rthing that gnaws my mind is that :

This patterns embodied your sense of
goodness”.mercury conjunct to Sedna gives a priority to truth in all dealings. sextile with the moon, these give a excellent mind and memory as well as compassion. As moon/mercury are also sextile to Jupiter and chiron, your mind is now marked by excellent deductive and critical abilities. As juno is also part of this sextile pattern, your mind is actually quite brilliant intellectually in addition to having a strong moral vein with the influence of Neptune and Sedna. Actually I have to describe your overall mental abilities as brilliant. You memory is very acute and you understand the large patterns of life , law and society as well as the intimate and personal interactions of mind and matter. you understand the large patterns in life as well as the intricacies of personal thoughts ,actions and ambitions.


what bothers me is that some of your comments show that you are hesitant to claim this brilliance. so something psychological has given you a low self esteem that is not warranted by the excellent mental aspects you have. it is as if you have had to deny your true talents because someone in the environment programming you to think less of yourself. this is another characteristic of some abusive environments...the abuser has to keep you mentally down, to make you feel "stupid" so that you don't expect or strive brilliance output from yourself.

the big unknown is your mother...... she has to be part of the equation.

love
rahu





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  #33  
Unread 11-23-2018, 12:02 PM
AbbyE AbbyE is offline
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Re: Looking for insight - Obsessional fears and scary thoughts

Hi,


Apologies, I haven't been on here for a while as I've been quite busy.


Thanks rahu for explaining further. I've had a think about this recently and also discussed it at length with my mother (we're close and she is very open to talking about things). What I've sort of concluded right now is that, as a sensitive person, I've definitely reacted strongly to certain triggers - including things that, while not necessarily abusive, may have been construed as uncomfortable. I feel as though a series of things have contributed to my emotional state (aside from the drugs and withdrawing from them), including the sudden death of my father and possibly feeling some sense of responsibility as a child. After reflecting on it, that sudden shattering of the family dynamic did make me dissociate to some degree, and I've possibly been living out this trauma in different forms ever since.



I also very much feel that I could have inherited some of the psychological or abusive trauma of my parents/their parents etc. When I was 17, someone also attempted to assault me (didn't succeed exactly), so there are a number of things in my history that can easily account for these patterns. I don't completely rule out early childhood abuse in some form, but the main distressing event I recall is my father's death, I think I just told myself for years that it didn't affect me that much. After that our lives became very turbulent, but before I showed no major signs of stress. For now, I've had some clarity about the disordered way my mind is working - I get 'windows' of feeling more balanced again and know this is common with this type of medication withdrawal. They really do leave you somewhat brain damaged, and it's a long process of healing.



Me and my mother also consulted a pendulum which indicated I was not abused directly. But we didn't take it overly seriously, just asked and the answer was an obvious no. This doesn't mean I don't necessarily have the effects of abuse in my psychology. I'm leaving the question open for now, if something comes up it will when it is meant to.


As for low self esteem, yes that has been shattered a few times over the years but I have at times built it up again. I know I have a smart mind in many ways, and when I want to I can achieve things easily, be very creative etc. That's partly why having mental ill health has been so distressing, I've often not been able to do any of the things I want to do. But I'm doing what I can, and I do have good days.



Appreciate having my mind opened to new possibilities though, this conversation has certainly had an impact in that sense.



All the best
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