Solar Arc Directions

I hope this thread is in the right place. When is the solar arc directed orb considered out of influence? Right now, my SA Mercury is 11'03 Scorpio in the 4th house and it is inconjuncting my natal 9th house Saturn (10 '54 Aries) -- so it is separating.

My SA d Moon (10 ' 05 Sag) 4 House is also trining (approaching) my natal 9th house Saturn (10'54 Aries). So this one is in effect.

Finally, my SA d Saturn (25'43 Taurus) 10th house is inconjuncting my natal Moon (25 ' 16 Libra) in the 3rd house -- so this is separating too.

I don't use SA Directions with any expertise but some articles here have me wondering that maybe these aspects may be strongly influencing the effect of transiting Saturn crossing my natal IC (9'08 Scorpio) and my current housing situation.

So, my question is: which aspects of the 3 SA directions would you consider the most active due to their orb of influence?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

i have only been using solar arcs for a few months, so i'm a newbie when it comes to them. i use an orb of half a degree applying and half a degree separating. and only these hard aspects: conjunction, square, opposition, semisquare, sesquiquadrate.

an excellent source of information is noel tyl's 'solar arcs'.

I have found that Solar Arc Directions are spotty in their effectiveness. I know people who swear at then and by them.

My professional conclusion is that for them to work effectively you have to have a powerful SUN in your natal chart. Failing that, they become less and less imapctive of anything.

Since my natal Sun is the least powerful planet in my chart, Solar Arc Directions never show anything for me.

In my opinion as well, the jury is out on this for me too. Noel Tyl uses SA regularly in his predictive work but specifically limits the influence to conjunctions and squares to natal planets and angles as relative, the rest of the aspects are more or less insignificant. I had a reading from him about 4-5 months ago, he predicted a new job this month(April), I have yet to have an interview in a couple let alone a job offer. I had a bad health problem come up last month, something he did not mention either. So there you go.

My experience is progressions and transits, along with Progressed Moon as a timer, Progressed houses changing signs as well as outer planets and progressed planets moving over angles and into new houses, progressed planets in critical degrees, as well as Lunar and Solar Eclipses give most of the information you need. Also, Progressed Sun/Ven conjuncting natal planets/angles usually bring favorable outcomes or events, but really what you want to see is a pattern developing of all the above mentioned to see where it's going to affect. Some astrologers believe the opposite house of the natal planet being activated becomes hightlighted as well. It can become confusing for some.

Rosie7 said:

I hope this thread is in the right place. When is the solar arc directed orb considered out of influence? Right now, my SA Mercury is 11'03 Scorpio in the 4th house and it is inconjuncting my natal 9th house Saturn (10 '54 Aries) -- so it is separating.

My SA d Moon (10 ' 05 Sag) 4 House is also trining (approaching) my natal 9th house Saturn (10'54 Aries). So this one is in effect.

Finally, my SA d Saturn (25'43 Taurus) 10th house is inconjuncting my natal Moon (25 ' 16 Libra) in the 3rd house -- so this is separating too.

I don't use SA Directions with any expertise but some articles here have me wondering that maybe these aspects may be strongly influencing the effect of transiting Saturn crossing my natal IC (9'08 Scorpio) and my current housing situation.

So, my question is: which aspects of the 3 SA directions would you consider the most active due to their orb of influence?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

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I generally use 2ndary progressions for the 3-5 year challenges, and then lunar and planetary returns for specific challenges related to certain areas. And then big transits where the transiting planet already has a relationship from the birth chart.

That generally works like clockwork. I suggest two of Celest Teal's volumes as the best available, along with Ivy Goldstein Jacobson's various books.

Z

Thanks everyone for your responses. I have heaps of books on SA, Progressions, and transits but wanted to hear some direct experiences, which I got here. Thanks again.

Do you look at Lunar return cahrt as stand alone or the planets in aspect to the natal chart? Planetary returns, do you look all of the planets do you just look at Solar? What house system?

Zarathu said:

I generally use 2ndary progressions for the 3-5 year challenges, and then lunar and planetary returns for specific challenges related to certain areas. And then big transits where the transiting planet already has a relationship from the birth chart.

That generally works like clockwork. I suggest two of Celest Teal's volumes as the best available, along with Ivy Goldstein Jacobson's various books.

Z

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Vista said:

Do you look at Lunar return chart as stand alone or the planets in aspect to the natal chart? Planetary returns, do you look all of the planets do you just look at Solar? What house system?

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I usually look at them as stand alone for the challenges that a person is facing in the future. I still rely on the natal chart for the aptitudes and skills. However, as the person gets older, especially past thirty, I am more likely to look at planetary, house, sign and aspect strength and level of friction in the secondary progressed chart. All of us find that we develop new ways of responding to the world that are different than what we had at birth as we get past 30. Certainly I am still Mercury oriented from my birth 64 years ago, but I have lots of new skills since then.

I also pay special attention to the pressed Sun, Moon, and ASC, as new challenges and choices are often shown by it. For example when my sun passed out of Gemini, I became a professional child counseling psychologist. When my Sun progressed into Leo, I retired from child counseling, with no interest in going there again, though I still find myself here and other places being dragged into a fairly directed counseling type role.

I use Placidus exclusively, even in horary, since the use of the astrodyne system was normed using Placidus. May astrology couldn't be what it is without the Astrodyne system. Its integral to everything I do, even in Horary.

Ah OK, thank you for explaining! I was just having a field day going back over major events in my life with Lunar Return. The month and year of the event really does seem to correspond to what took place. How exciting, another predictive tool!! Thank you! Have you read Carol Rushman's "The Art of Predictive Astrology?" I must say her book which is a very easy read is full of little "tidbits" for predictive astrology. I thoroughly enjoyed it especially the price of it used. I will have to check out Celeste Teals books, I have probably a 100 books in my collection(in storage unfortunately) but I am not sure if I have any of hers.

Zarathu said:

I usually look at them as stand alone for the challenges that a person is facing in the future. I still rely on the natal chart for the aptitudes and skills. However, as the person gets older, especially past thirty, I am more likely to look at planetary, house, sign and aspect strength and level of friction in the secondary progressed chart. All of us find that we develop new ways of responding to the world that are different than what we had at birth as we get past 30. Certainly I am still Mercury oriented from my birth 64 years ago, but I have lots of new skills since then.

I also pay special attention to the pressed Sun, Moon, and ASC, as new challenges and choices are often shown by it. For example when my sun passed out of Gemini, I became a professional child counseling psychologist. When my Sun progressed into Leo, I retired from child counseling, with no interest in going there again, though I still find myself here and other places being dragged into a fairly directed counseling type role.

I use Placidus exclusively, even in horary, since the use of the astrodyne system was normed using Placidus. May astrology couldn't be what it is without the Astrodyne system. Its integral to everything I do, even in Horary.

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While most horary astrologers use Regiomontanus because Lilly did, what few seem to be aware of is that Lilly used it because that was what he had available. Placidus wasn't translated into English until 1816.

Anthony Louis (in his horary book) relates the story (perhaps an "urban legend") that Lilly rejected Placidus (who was contemporary with Lilly) because, while Placidus enthusiatically accepted most types of astrology (such as natal and mundane) he had characterized horary (and electional) astrology as fraudulent, and its practitioners as charlatans!!

Zarathu said:

I have found that Solar Arc Directions are spotty in their effectiveness. I know people who swear at then and by them.

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I much prefer simple symbolic directions (as outlined by Carter in his book, "Symbolic Directions in Modern Astrology") These have proven to be very reliable, in my experiments with them.

in my case, SA directions are pretty accurate. though the catch with solar arcs is that you need to have an accurate birth time as the angles are extremely important.

Any significance in a Lunar return chart when an angle or house is at 0 or 29/29 degrees?

Zarathu said:

While most horary astrologers use Regiomontanus because Lilly did, what few seem to be aware of is that Lilly used it because that was what he had available. Placidus wasn't translated into English until 1816.

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Vista said:

Any significance in a Lunar return chart when an angle or house is at 0 or 29/29 degrees?

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Could you give me a specific example? I know their are potoential deficiencies, but I don't often run into them. it seems that planning for very reare circumstances would be "throwing the baby out with the bath water" so to speak. At least for me, that is.

Ok, I noticed one friends chart has 0 degrees on all for angles one month in his Lunar Return. His time of birth is confirmed. I thought this has got to be very significant. Within the Lunar chart he also has a T square from Uranus in the 1st to Pluto in the 10th and Mercury in the 4th. Natally, his 10th is ruled by Mercury and he has Venus placed inside the 10th. He works at San Onfre(need I say more). I felt he is going to lose his job or forced to retire after 27 years with SO CA Edison late Spring, early summer 2013.

On a different note, within Lunar Charts after exploring I have consistently noticed relationship break-ups when Uranus is in the 7th house, conjunct the DES or in hard aspect with the DES. Very interesting. To a lessor degree, the same when Uranus is inside the 5th house. The other thing, deception when Neptune is doing the same as I described Uranus. Anything to this on your end?

Zarathu said:

Could you give me a specific example? I know their are potoential deficiencies, but I don't often run into them. it seems that planning for very reare circumstances would be "throwing the baby out with the bath water" so to speak. At least for me, that is.

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Another interesting discovery, Uranus inside the 10th of the Lunar Return in my case has always pointed to a job change. The other interesting thing, I lost my career in March of 2009 when T Pluto conjunct my MC. I just noticed the month of that Lunar Return I had the ASC within 3 degrees of my natal ASC with LR Pluto conjunct the MC. I am really excited, I think you really gave me an incredible tool to utilize for additional predictive work!!!

Vista said:

Ok, I noticed one friends chart has 0 degrees on all for angles one month in his Lunar Return. His time of birth is confirmed. I thought this has got to be very significant. Within the Lunar chart he also has a T square from Uranus in the 1st to Pluto in the 10th and Mercury in the 4th. Natally, his 10th is ruled by Mercury and he has Venus placed inside the 10th. He works at San Onfre(need I say more). I felt he is going to lose his job or forced to retire after 27 years with SO CA Edison late Spring, early summer 2013.

On a different note, within Lunar Charts after exploring I have consistently noticed relationship break-ups when Uranus is in the 7th house, conjunct the DES or in hard aspect with the DES. Very interesting. To a lessor degree, the same when Uranus is inside the 5th house. The other thing, deception when Neptune is doing the same as I described Uranus. Anything to this on your end?

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Vista said:

Ok, I noticed one friends chart has 0 degrees on all for angles one month in his Lunar Return. His time of birth is confirmed. I thought this has got to be very significant. Within the Lunar chart he also has a T square from Uranus in the 1st to Pluto in the 10th and Mercury in the 4th. Natally, his 10th is ruled by Mercury and he has Venus placed inside the 10th. He works at San Onfre(need I say more). I felt he is going to lose his job or forced to retire after 27 years with SO CA Edison late Spring, early summer 2013.

On a different note, within Lunar Charts after exploring I have consistently noticed relationship break-ups when Uranus is in the 7th house, conjunct the DES or in hard aspect with the DES. Very interesting. To a lessor degree, the same when Uranus is inside the 5th house. The other thing, deception when Neptune is doing the same as I described Uranus. Anything to this on your end?

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Yeah.... I would expect that when Uranus(lets escape as all costs) is in the house of Partnerships, then there might be a stress on any relationships. Likewise, Neptune(I have a secret, and you don't know it, ha ha ha) doing the same action might also stress. However, I would be looking to see first whether there was a significant impact of Uranus and the 7th and Neptune and the 7th in the natal chart, and secondly how significant(meaning how much power and the degree of friction) that both of these malefics are influencing in the 7th in the lunar return. And if it seemed that they were significant, then I would want to step back and look at them in the current Venus return chart, or even look at them under a magnifying glass with a persona chart in the Venus return chart.

However, I would never look at the lunar return first. I start with the 2ndary progressed chart to find the general challenges, and if relationship looks like one, then I break it down into the Venus return for the year period, and if that looks like the 7th house is going to impact, then I look at the lunar return for several 28 day period, or the 1/12 Venus return for the same time period essentially to see if there is more. Certainly Uranus and Neptune in the 7th could impact, but as Ivy said, you'd need more than one indictor. I'd want to know whether any of the asteroids and Arabic parts of this kind of loss or deception(IVY CALLED THE THE D PARTS) impacted these two planets, and where exactly Dark Moon Lilith was in the picture.

Very good points!! I would certainly expect more than one indicator as well and look for it. But I am very enthusiastic about this additional predictive tool. Predictive work is my love so I am very focused on it. Do you feel 1/7th houses with an intercepted sign within it could point to another person in the picture? I do understand what you are saying about how you go about looking at SP and VR, just curious what you think? I guess to a certain degree if Venus is inside the 7th house of the Lunar Return of a male this could also point to another person in the picture(maybe Sun for a female LR chart).

Thank you for explaining, you have been extremely helpful!
Edit PS. Do you use Venus Return charts strictly for relationship predictive work?

Zarathu said:

Yeah.... I would expect that when Uranus(lets escape as all costs) is in the house of Partnerships, then there might be a stress on any relationships. Likewise, Neptune(I have a secret, and you don't know it, ha ha ha) doing the same action might also stress. However, I would be looking to see first whether there was a significant impact of Uranus and the 7th and Neptune and the 7th in the natal chart, and secondly how significant(meaning how much power and the degree of friction) that both of these malefics are influencing in the 7th in the lunar return. And if it seemed that they were significant, then I would want to step back and look at them in the current Venus return chart, or even look at them under a magnifying glass with a persona chart in the Venus return chart.

However, I would never look at the lunar return first. I start with the 2ndary progressed chart to find the general challenges, and if relationship looks like one, then I break it down into the Venus return for the year period, and if that looks like the 7th house is going to impact, then I look at the lunar return for several 28 day period, or the 1/12 Venus return for the same time period essentially to see if there is more. Certainly Uranus and Neptune in the 7th could impact, but as Ivy said, you'd need more than one indictor. I'd want to know whether any of the asteroids and Arabic parts of this kind of loss or deception(IVY CALLED THE THE D PARTS) impacted these two planets, and where exactly Dark Moon Lilith was in the picture.

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Vista said:

Very good points!! I would certainly expect more than one indicator as well and look for it. But I am very enthusiastic about this additional predictive tool. Predictive work is my love so I am very focused on it. Do you feel 1/7th houses with an intercepted sign within it could point to another person in the picture? I do understand what you are saying about how you go about looking at SP and VR, just curious what you think? I guess to a certain degree if Venus is inside the 7th house of the Lunar Return of a male this could also point to another person in the picture(maybe Sun for a female LR chart).

Thank you for explaining, you have been extremely helpful!

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I don't really know about that one. I think if I was really interested on that, I would look to a horary event chart of the time involved and see if I could find something about it. Certainly it would show up on the Venus return. I guess I wouldn't look for it unless the client brought it up as a question, and then I would look at the horary of the question at the time.

There are so many ways to skin an astrological cat and that would be mine.