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petosiris

Banned
Since you're around, what is your opinion on the study of the kabbalah? I made a preliminary attempt earlier in the year, but I discontinued due to mundane reasons. I plan to take it up again in the next week or two.

Approach the subject with vigilant diligence, abstaining from the nonsense many have laboured upon. Have as a basis the 10 numbers, the 22 letters, and the infallible sciences they have produced - gematria, notarikon, temurah. Please, remember those 5 things, and do not attach Pluto to Kether.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Approach the subject with vigilant diligence, abstaining from the nonsense many have laboured upon. Have as a basis the 10 numbers, the 22 letters, and the infallible sciences they have produced - gematria, notarikon, temurah. Please, remember those 5 things, and do not attach Pluto to Kether.

What is an example of the nonsense many have laboured upon?
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I like Jordan Peterson generally, and mostly agree with him in matters political.

But when I tried to get through one of his bible lectures, it made my brain hurt. His scholarship there is...lacking. And he's trying to run most of it through a Jungian filter. Not sure that's helpful, either.

That hearkens back to something I read about Jung's own methodology when tackling religious/spiritual symbology -

I lay particular stress on the phenomena of assimilation in alchemy because they are, in a sense, a prelude to the modern approximation between empirical psychology and Christian dogma - an approximation which Nietzsche clearly foresaw. Psychology, as a science, observes religious ideas from the standpoint of their psychic phenomenology without intruding on their theological content It puts dogmatic images into the category of psychic contents, because this constitutes its field of research. It is compelled to do so by the nature of the psyche itself; it does not, like alchemy, try to explain psychic processes in theological terms, but rather to illuminate the darkness of religious images relating them to similar images in the psyche. The result is a kind of amalgamation of ideas of - so it would seem - the most varied provenience, and this sometimes leads to parallels and comparisons which to an uncritical mind unacquainted with the epistemological method may seem like a devaluation or a false interpretation...A rapprochement between empirical science and religious experience would in my opinion be fruitful for both. Harm can result only if one side or the other remains unconscious of the limitations of its claim to validity.

Seeing as how Peterson is educated on Jung's material, it looks as if he popularized and used this method in his bible series, (he actually states outright that he is doing a psychological interpretation of the bible). Many atheists and non-Christians are at least open to this approach, maybe because physiognomically it's not making theological claims, but psychological ones which is not as controversial.
 

petosiris

Banned
Another trivia - note that both the Old and New Testament were written without any punctuation. The Old Testament was also written without the nikudot, those were attached later, somewhere in the Middle Ages. The New Testament was also written without spaces between the words. There were also no chapters or verses, those were added later for convenience. People don't usually know this when they start reading translation of the Bible. Those things can lend to uncertainties and disagreements. I can give an example with a comma.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Another trivia - note that both the Old and New Testament were written without any punctuation. The Old Testament was also written without the nikudot, those were attached later, somewhere in the Middle Ages. The New Testament was also written without spaces between the words. There were also no chapters or verses, those were added later for convenience. People don't usually know this when they start reading translation of the Bible. Those things can lend to uncertainties and disagreements. I can give an example with a comma.

Wasn't aware of that at all. What's the example?
 

Sagcap88

Well-known member
Kabbalistic astrology isn’t common knowledge and certainly not for the layman. If you want to know about kabbalistic astrology, you’d need to learn about it from a real Kabbalah teacher who learned it from their teacher who learned it from their teacher, etc. It deserves too much respect to be speculated about on the internet by amateurs and people who have gotten the wrong information.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
That's interesting, but it's not kabbalistic astrology that I'm referring to. I had some books recommended to me by someone who has been studying it for decades, so I'm starting there, not the internet.
 

petosiris

Banned
Wasn't aware of that at all. What's the example?

I was part of a debate on a Christian forum between an Orthodox Christian theologian and an Seventh-Day Adventist. Orthodox Christians believe that the soul is judged immediately (or after days in the toll houses) after death (like the Catholics), while the Adventists reject the doctrine, saying that there is no judgement until the coming of Christ. Here was the disputed comma.

''And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.'' - Luke 23:43 KJV

The forum was not in English, but I am certain that this comma is present in various languages and translations. The Adventist was arguing that the correct placement of the comma should be after ''thee''. It becomes something like the following:

''And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, thou shall be with me in paradise.'' - Luke 23:43

It is actually hilarious. https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke 23:43 , although almost all translations place the comma before today, it has been contested by various adventist apologists - https://www.ministrymagazine.org/ar...ficance-of-a-comma:-an-analysis-of-luke-23:43

Personally I am impartial because I am not proficient in Greek.
 
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Sagcap88

Well-known member
That's interesting, but it's not kabbalistic astrology that I'm referring to. I had some books recommended to me by someone who has been studying it for decades, so I'm starting there, not the internet.

The only legit source I’d look into is The Kabbalah Centre; it’s been around since 1922 and has a lineage all the way back to Abraham the Patriarch. They have some great books about it. Really interesting stuff.
 

petosiris

Banned
The only legit source I’d look into is The Kabbalah Centre; it’s been around since 1922 and has a lineage all the way back to Abraham the Patriarch. They have some great books about it. Really interesting stuff.

Avoid that and the Russian Laitman groups, as those have no basis in tradition (and common sense?).
 

Sagcap88

Well-known member
Avoid that and the Russian Laitman groups, as those have no basis in tradition (and common sense?).

What you just posted is slanderous. That’s a personal attack and vicious. The Kabbalah Centre is rooted in Lurianic Kabbalah and can be traced back from teacher to teacher — the lineage exists. It is the REAL Kabbalah.

One thing taught at the Kabbalah Centre is “if you spot it, you got it”, meaning that the negativity you see in others exists in yourself...others are a mirror. So when you haughtily mention a “lack of common sense”, you’re clearly talking about your own issues.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
What you just posted is slanderous. That’s a personal attack and vicious. The Kabbalah Centre is rooted in Lurianic Kabbalah and can be traced back from teacher to teacher — the lineage exists. It is the REAL Kabbalah.

One thing taught at the Kabbalah Centre is “if you spot it, you got it”, meaning that the negativity you see in others exists in yourself...others are a mirror. So when you haughtily mention a “lack of common sense”, you’re clearly talking about your own issues.

Are you affiliated with the Kabbalah Centre in any capacity? Not a gotcha question.
 

Sagcap88

Well-known member
What is the source for the outrageous claim above my previous post?

Hey Petosiris, you’re passive aggressive. If you want to say that a fact I stated is “outrageous”, maybe you should say it to me directly.

I’m happy to give citations: https://kabbalaheurope.com/about/history-of-kabbalah/
 
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