david starling
Well-known member
No, it's about the ownership of the equipment and the property used for production and distribution. Not the personal ownership of what's produced.
Anti-Capitalism Thread
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No, it's about the ownership of the equipment and the property used for production and distribution. Not the personal ownership of what's produced.
AppLeo
Well-known member
Can we just both agree that the free market and socialism are opposites that shouldn't be used together?
Thanks.
Socialism is just the bridge from capitalism to communism. And we both know that communism and the free-market are complete opposites.
david starling
Well-known member
THAT'S controlled-market Socialism.
david starling
Well-known member
No, historically, Communism has been the bridge from Feudalism to controlled-market Socialism.
Corporations are the market controllers, along with the governments they own. That's the Capitalist version of a controlled-market economy.
AppLeo
Well-known member
Okay yes, socialism and the free market can work together, but that never happens because whenever the government intervenes, the economy becomes artificial. You get crony capitalism, you get minimum wage stuff, you get state controlled enterprises. It's not free market anymore, it's crony capitalism with socialism with it's ultimate goal being communism.
The only time socialism and the free market can coexist is without government intervention. When people VOLUNTARILY agree to pool their money together for a cause they want to help or invest in... Like investing in a company by buying stock.. Charity is a form of socialism without the use of government.
But when you want free health care or welfare for people, it's not going work on people's generosity alone. The government has to come in and FORCE people (which means using guns and threatening to throw people in jail) to give up their money to fund these government systems. That is not free market. Because economic freedom is being taken away.
The only time socialism and the free market can coexist is without government intervention. When people VOLUNTARILY agree to pool their money together for a cause they want to help or invest in... Like investing in a company by buying stock.. Charity is a form of socialism without the use of government.
But when you want free health care or welfare for people, it's not going work on people's generosity alone. The government has to come in and FORCE people (which means using guns and threatening to throw people in jail) to give up their money to fund these government systems. That is not free market. Because economic freedom is being taken away.
AppLeo
Well-known member
Welcome to the modern ages where feudalism doesn't exist and socialism is the bridge from capitalism to communism.
From apple dictionary "• (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism."
david starling
Well-known member
What's China's economy now? It appears to be a successful controlled-market Socialist set-up that allows foreign Capitalist corporations to operate under Government license. 
david starling
Well-known member
That's where Marx made his big mistake. It's not HISTORICALLY accurate.
david starling
Well-known member
France has controlled-market Socialism along side of controlled-market Capitalism. The Government owns and profits from the nuclear power facilities, including the means of distribution.
david starling
Well-known member
AppLeo, you're not making a distinction between controlled-market and free-market Capitalism. We don't HAVE free-market Capitalism.
AppLeo
Well-known member
What's China's economy now? It appears to be a successful controlled-market Socialist set-up that allows foreign Capitalist corporations to operate under Government license.
I don't know much about China, so I can't really answer that.
All I know is that they're communist and their economy is gonna take number 1 in the world. Probably because they trade with many countries and have a large population to produce and because they are moving towards capitalism.
It's actually easier to start a company in China than in America, believe it for not. They have these "zones" which allow for free enterprise to thrive where communism isn't a thing.
I don't know why you would like China David, because they actually have less regulations than we do in America. There are a lot of fake products and just dangerous products that Chinese people make because of these lack of regulations.
China also has a ton of smog. They have a population problem where there isn't enough working young people to take care of the old people. The young can't make enough money to support the poor, which I think is bad because I think old people should've saved their own money when they were younger, but their government thought otherwise. And in China, there are people there who work for extremely long hours and hardly make anything. Which I don't know if that's them being communist crazies, or if it's because they're an emerging capitalist country and so working those long hours is necessary to a developing country.
But in general I wouldn't want to live in China because of their obvious lack of freedoms like free speech. Living in Shang-Hai might be pretty good, but anywhere else must be a communist ****-hole.
If you've met a Chinese person, they love money and want to make money, and want a car and everything. They want the American life. I don't think they care or like socialism, communism at all, no matter how "well" you think it's working.
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AppLeo
Well-known member
I know, David.
Why do you think I keep advocating for freedom and less government regulation?
david starling
Well-known member
What's China's economy now? It appears to be a successful controlled-market Socialist set-up that allows foreign Capitalist corporations to operate under Government license.
Blaze, have you got a take on this?
david starling
Well-known member
Simply because you're equating the type of Government we have now, under Corporate Capitalism, with the type we'd have in a free-market Capitalistic system. The original idea in the U.S. was to keep the Corporations as weak as possible, if not to eliminate them entirely.
AppLeo
Well-known member
Yeah, I know David.
david starling
Well-known member
If America falls apart, I might move to Singapore
I know basic Chinese, so w00t
Make sure it's "Standard Chinese" also known as Standard Mandarin.
Dirius
Well-known member
The reason they fail is because they can't compete with private owned companies that offer a much better service such as UPS. In fact this is a good example of state owned vs private owned, and how private owned surpasses the state-run company in a number of ways. The U.S. postal service is bankrupt at this point, and will never be able to compete.