Phoenix Venus
Well-known member
A discussion broke out in another thread regarding these parts. (I'm gonna copy & paste a bit of those posts here but you can go read it here: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=519466#post519466 )
These parts were previously titled:
"Part of Speculation / Behest" : Asc + Jup - Nep
"Part of Cancer/ Malignancy" : Asc + Nep - Jup
Piercethevale has proposed a new title for the part of cancer (asc + nep - jup) as the "part of perspicacity"
Perspicacity being "of having acute mental vision or discernment" (taken from ptv's post which he got from merriam webster dictionary)
Would anyone like to share the symbols that they have for these two parts and whether or not they fit along this similar tenor? Or any other thoughts or comments regarding these parts?
Here's the part of piercethevale's post which led him to his conclusions:
(some of the emphasis and colors might have been changed during the copy/paste)
And here is part of my response:
These parts were previously titled:
"Part of Speculation / Behest" : Asc + Jup - Nep
"Part of Cancer/ Malignancy" : Asc + Nep - Jup
Piercethevale has proposed a new title for the part of cancer (asc + nep - jup) as the "part of perspicacity"
Perspicacity being "of having acute mental vision or discernment" (taken from ptv's post which he got from merriam webster dictionary)
Would anyone like to share the symbols that they have for these two parts and whether or not they fit along this similar tenor? Or any other thoughts or comments regarding these parts?
Here's the part of piercethevale's post which led him to his conclusions:
piercethevale said:With Neptune as the "Trigger" and Jupiter being the "Significator" I can see it as the imaginative faculties, the dream weaver within oneself [Neptune], giving rise to some dream of getting wealthy, gaining something desirous or possibly what could produce a desire to go out proselytizing, telling wondrous and beautiful tales about ones beliefs, ones religion [Jupiter].
I really don't believe that the Creator had cause to conceive of or the intent to create an astrological Part of Cancer or Malignancy.
As to what that formula utilizing Jupiter as to 'Trigger' Neptune... What would ones religion, philosophy, growth of wealth of material goods or knowledge then trigger the higher imaginative faculties, the higher octave of Venus and subsequently result in? Why not let's take a look at that Yeshu'a chart of mine and see?
So, in that "Yeshu'a" natal chart we find that, Asc. + Nep - Jup = 11*57' 06" Virgo (editted for lack of knowing how to use the astro symbols -phoenixvenus) ...which is the 12th degree of Virgo and to now try to understand this subsequent result the only hope we have is in the Sabian Symbol for VIRGO 12*: [ibid.]
"
piercethevale said:AFTER THE WEDDING, THE GROOM SNATCHES THE VEIL AWAY FROM HIS BRIDE.
KEYNOTE: The penetrating and unveiling power of the trained mind.
In contrast to the preceding symbol we have now a scene stressing a physical action with psychological and/or spiritual overtones. In ancient cosmologies the male god often appears in three roles as son, husband and father of the woman element of nature. Nature is fulfilled by the human mind and will that overcome her; she resists only better to be subdued by the power that transcends her, and by transcending her gives her a spiritual meaning. The element of 'training' in the symbolic scene comes from the fact that there has been a marriage ritual; thus the sociocultural factor is in the background. The teacher-guru is here the priest who has performed the ritual.
At this second stage the rules are reversed, the masculine element assuming the dynamic positive part in the great play of polarity. The masculine act balances the feminine dream visualization. The Keyword is UNVEILING. There can also be an unveiling of mysteries, long protected by secrecy."
Well if you consider that by the natal chart I have for Yeshu'a [in fact it is the aspect that led me to the time of day that Edgar Cayce gave for the birth] consists of a Pluto/Asc. conj. and that said conjunction bestows upon the native an ability to see the energies of all creation at work in the physical realm as to like having some sort of x-ray vision according to the Astrologers Handbook by Sakoian and Acker but as to which I like to use the simile of 'as like the character, Neo, in the movie the "Matrix", where he could see what was the makeup of the reality/illusion he saw'...then why would Yeshu'a's ability to see through the illusion be considered some sort of "Malignancy"?
Well, yes this ability was apparently growing in faculty for him and the, knowledge, the awareness of his possessing this ability was spreading among the peoples of near and was heading out afar... but really..."Malignancy"?
I have to call attention to Dane Rudhyar's "Keynote" words;
"The penetrating and unveiling power of the trained mind." ...would that be a mind that was schooled entirely by a community that followed the teachings of Melchizedek and for hundreds of years had passed these sacred teachings from generation to generation and in this process isolating themselves from the rest of their brethren as so markedly as to pronounced a different sect called "The Expectant", or more properly and in Hebrew as "The Essenes"?
The knowledge and teaching of Melchizedek is legendary for it being that knowledge which is veiled from worldly men.
So, I am pretty confident that the Part identified as a 'Part of Cancer/Malignancy' would be immeasurably more appropriately titled something derived from the analysis of examining the same Part from the Yeshu'a chart... yet one good piece of evidence may be enough to exonerate but is insufficient to establish much beyond that... [although, Phoenix Venus, you know how much faith I do have in the Yeshu'a chart as to be the ultimate litmus test for all matters of questions astrological about natal charts... so much so that I call it "The Template"...both bench mark and rosetta stone, in one.] ...The question being for the present is just what do we call it ..at least temporarily, if not permanently...?
The 'Part of Spiritual Insights and Understandings Derived From Ones Discipleship' ...? ...'Spiritual Acumen'...? hmmm.... "Perspicacity"....!!!
I like that one...
"The Part of Perspicacity"
(some of the emphasis and colors might have been changed during the copy/paste)
And here is part of my response:
phoenix venus said:The symbolism for Yeshua's reverse part for jupiter - neptune has a lot of connections to the one for neptune - jupiter.
Here is Yeshua's part of speculation:
"A RABBI PERFORMING HIS DUTIES.
KEYNOTE: The ability to draw on the power of an ancestral tradition in order to serve and inspire one's fellowmen.
Here we see at work the constructive use of rather rigid yet effectual sociocultural and religious patterns. The energies of the collective Unconscious are channeled through well-defined, age-old forms and formulas. This implies limitations and the possibility of sclerosis or inertia when confronted with new situations, yet there is beauty and wisdom in such a ritualization of behavior and of thinking.
This is the fifth stage of the fortieth five-fold sequence. At this stage the relation of man, the individual, to his community – and beyond it, the universe – is seen in stabilized and effective operation. INHERITED WISDOM can be focused through a person who accepts its limitations. "
phoenix venus said:... and it does make sense seeing as how He was one who was against "tradition for the sake of it" especially as it applied to the church.....
Around the time of the dawn of christianity, there was a lot of confusion amongst churches about whether new converts had to adapt to the jewish laws....
and that all seems to relate to a lack of "depth-understanding" as it pertains to inherited wisdom from traditions.