Ankara Method Questions

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pommepomme

Member
I have followed many posts on this technique for a while now, and have been able to piece together the method fairly well, methinks... but I have some questions for clarification.


To whit: I understand that we use the sigs (whole sign) and the NN/SN (SN voids in 1st house, destroys in house of quesited) (NN is a positive indicator); and evaluate the "flow" of the planets - toward or away - and mark this as either positive or negative indication.

At what point is a sig flowing toward again once away - i.e. if sig 1 is in 6th house and sig 2 is in first, sig is flowing away - but once it hits the 7th is it toward again?

I know the "actual" direction of planet is also part of this (Ret. Jupiter in Leo at 22 flows toward Direct Sun at 12 Leo and vice versa, but a direct Jupiter would be flowing away from Sun, but the Sun would still be flowing toward, yes?)

And the use of various lots - instead of the lot's location - we use the ruler of the sign of the lot (ex. if LOMarriage was at 7 Sag. for a Marriage question we would examine the Sigs' relationship to Jupiter) and examine whether the sigs flow toward/away from that, yes?

We seem to use "any" flowing to aspect for perfection - is there a limit on how far away? And we don't use prohibition, yes? We only look to the planets signified by the question, the lots and the flow? So even if there are other planets "in the way" this isn't an issue?

How also, do you use parallels with timing? (Noted you don't use CP or Antiscion.)

Also, other notes on timing? Still use the moon as the primary timing sig?

I appreciate any clarifications/redirections where I am completely missing it!

Thank you in advance.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
pommepomme said:

I have followed many posts on this technique for a while now, and have been able to piece together the method fairly well, methinks... but I have some questions for clarification.


To whit: I understand that we use the sigs (whole sign) and the NN/SN (SN voids in 1st house, destroys in house of quesited) (NN is a positive indicator); and evaluate the "flow" of the planets - toward or away - and mark this as either positive or negative indication.

At what point is a sig flowing toward again once away - i.e. if sig 1 is in 6th house and sig 2 is in first, sig is flowing away - but once it hits the 7th is it toward again?

I know the "actual" direction of planet is also part of this (Ret. Jupiter in Leo at 22 flows toward Direct Sun at 12 Leo and vice versa, but a direct Jupiter would be flowing away from Sun, but the Sun would still be flowing toward, yes?)

And the use of various lots - instead of the lot's location - we use the ruler of the sign of the lot (ex. if LOMarriage was at 7 Sag. for a Marriage question we would examine the Sigs' relationship to Jupiter) and examine whether the sigs flow toward/away from that, yes?

We seem to use "any" flowing to aspect for perfection - is there a limit on how far away? And we don't use prohibition, yes? We only look to the planets signified by the question, the lots and the flow? So even if there are other planets "in the way" this isn't an issue?

How also, do you use parallels with timing? (Noted you don't use CP or Antiscion.)

Also, other notes on timing? Still use the moon as the primary timing sig?

I appreciate any clarifications/redirections where I am completely missing it!

Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
dr, farr described the ankara method to us originally
however he has developed health issues and has not posted
for some time now :smile:
 
P

pommepomme

Member
I am really saddened to hear Dr. Farr has been suffering ill health. I hope the best for him.

I appreciate the information, JUPITERASC.
 
Cap

Cap

Well-known member
pommepomme said:
I have followed many posts on this technique for a while now, and have been able to piece together the method fairly well, methinks... but I have some questions for clarification.


To whit: I understand that we use the sigs (whole sign) and the NN/SN (SN voids in 1st house, destroys in house of quesited) (NN is a positive indicator); and evaluate the "flow" of the planets - toward or away - and mark this as either positive or negative indication.

At what point is a sig flowing toward again once away - i.e. if sig 1 is in 6th house and sig 2 is in first, sig is flowing away - but once it hits the 7th is it toward again?

I know the "actual" direction of planet is also part of this (Ret. Jupiter in Leo at 22 flows toward Direct Sun at 12 Leo and vice versa, but a direct Jupiter would be flowing away from Sun, but the Sun would still be flowing toward, yes?)

And the use of various lots - instead of the lot's location - we use the ruler of the sign of the lot (ex. if LOMarriage was at 7 Sag. for a Marriage question we would examine the Sigs' relationship to Jupiter) and examine whether the sigs flow toward/away from that, yes?

We seem to use "any" flowing to aspect for perfection - is there a limit on how far away? And we don't use prohibition, yes? We only look to the planets signified by the question, the lots and the flow? So even if there are other planets "in the way" this isn't an issue?

How also, do you use parallels with timing? (Noted you don't use CP or Antiscion.)

Also, other notes on timing? Still use the moon as the primary timing sig?

I appreciate any clarifications/redirections where I am completely missing it!

Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...

Hello pommepomme!

I use Dr Farr's "Ankara Horary" as my secondary consideration to double check things.

I'll PM you.
 
byjove

byjove

Account Closed
Yes, we are all sadened to hear what's happened to Dr. Farr. He has been a treasure of knowledge and good teachings here for some time now. Every student is lucky when a teacher like that appears.

It was a nice idea to set up this thread. I couldn't help but notice Dr. Farr's consistent accuracy with horary. He was certainly right in all of my cases.

Though, besides the information you provided in the top post, I noticed that from time to time other factors came into play which I would never have thought of. I just peeked through my old horaries and it wasn't mind where I seen the unexpected considerations, it must have been others' horaries.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
BRIEF SUMMARY OF THE ANKARA HORARY METHOD as posted by dr. farr :smile:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=543631#post543631
dr. farr said:
In the "Ankara" horary method,
the FLOW BY BODILY DIRECTION of significators is given primary importance
(applying aspects are decidedly secondary,
which is VERY different than standard horary methodology;
seperating aspects are not considered)

In the chart, the son is the 5th house (remember, whole sign) and his girlfriend 7th from 5th: so the son's significator is Saturn and her significator is the Moon: and Moon flows toward Saturn by body (and rx Saturn in turn "flows" toward the Moon by body) The DISPOSITORS of the signs in which the significators are posited (in this case, Moon in Virgo, dispositor = Mercury; Saturn in Scorpio, dispositor Mars) play virtually no delineative role in the "Ankara" horary method (unless one of these is a secondary quesited or-more rarely-a secondary querent significator, neither of which is the case in this reference chart)

So, as you can see, the "Ankara" horary method is quite different than the methodology of standard horary,
which is why I always head my horary delineations with a disclaimer to that effect.
(If you want, there is a little synopsis of the "Ankara" horary method which I have and which I have PM'd to several interested AW members;
if you are curious about this approach let me know and I'll PM you the short synopsis)
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
dr. farr said:

I learned about horary from an old astrologer (back in the 1970's)-my interest in horary was (and is) relative to health/therapeutics (and sometimes psychological/relationship) related questions. The method the old man taught me is highly peculiar (just like the transit method I learned from him, which I explained in an earlier posting)-however I must state that this method has worked very well for me. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/v...ghlight=&sid=08891c931a43b5f512013ec2eea68594

And the method is simply this:


'......I use the duodenary placements of the chart elements exclusively in determining my answer (the duodenary is the 1/12th of a sign; every sign can be divided into 12 parts of 2:30 degrees each-these are the duodenary) For example, say the Asc is in Cancer: the Lord of the Asc would (typically) be considered to be the Moon; however, in the "duodenary" system, say the degree of the Asc in Cancer is in the duodenary of Aries: for me (using the duodenary method) this means that the Asc is in Leo, and the Lord of the Asc is the Sun.
When he taught me this "duodenary method" I asked the old man, "Why not just use the entire sign; why the 1/12th of the sign?" The old astrologer replied:
"Because the big sign is to diffuse! It gives general indications, which are fine for natal and other applications where broad or general influences are all you need. But in horary you ask the heavens a specific, defined question: you need a specific, not general, not diffused answer. The Hindu's use the navamsa's {1/9th of a sign} in their predictions and that's more specific than the entire sign, that's why the Hindu's are so famous for the accuracy of their predictions. But the duodenary is even closer, and more specific; the old Greeks gave it to the Harranians as a secret, and this got passed along by mouth right up to the group I learned it from back in Ankara. Try it out and you'll see for yourself..."......'

At least that's what I remember being the gist of the old man's answer to my question. The old astologer used Placidian cusps, but I have substituted the "sensitive points" of the Whole Sign House method in my work.

He taught me other, more common things, such as the prime importance of Arabic Parts in horary, also the predominance (in evaluation) of parallels of declination over all aspects (other than long. oppositions or conjunctions), the use of Al-Biruni's time tables for determining the period of time the answer to the question would be in effect, and the great importance of Pauline time profections in health/therapeutic questions, also the importance of the dynamic dodekatomoria in finding the "hidden" meaning behind the apparent indications of a Part's (or a planet's) duodenary placement.

But the most unusual thing the old astrologer taught me was this exclusive use of the duodenary placement of the chart's elements in horary analysis-a method which I have never read about in the books.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
dr. farr's useful explanation of The Ankara tradition time-frame parameters in horary questions :smile:
Zodiacal Time-Frame Parameters in Horary http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=233197#post233197

dr. farr said:
The Ankara tradition allotted time-frame parameters to horary questions based upon a variation of the zodiacal time period tables of Al-Biruni. The ascending sign of the horary was taken as the time-frame indicator. In Ankara's secondary horary method, "divining by the Moon" (simple Lunar divnation) the sign in which the Moon's next "conjunction" to a planet or node would occur, was taken as the indicative time-frame for the divination.

Following, then, is the time-frame parameters list used by the Ankara tradition in horary delineation:

ARIES: minimum = 28 days..... maximum = 15 months

TAURUS: minimum = 20 days..... maximum = 8 months

GEMINI: minimum = 50 days..... maximum = 20 months

CANCER: minimum = 62 days..... maximum = 25 months

LEO: minimum = 48 days..... maximum = 19 months

VIRGO: minimum = 50 days..... maximum = 20 months

LIBRA: minimum = 20 days..... maximum = 8 months

SCORPIO: minimum = 28 days..... maximum = 15 months

SAGITTARIUS: minimum = 30 days..... maximum = 30 months

CAPRICORN: minimum = 68 days..... maximum = 27 months

AQUARIUS: minimum = 75 days..... maximum = 30 months

PISCES: minimum = 30 days..... maximum = 12 months


Where did Al-Biruni (1028 AD) get these time periods?
Historically it is not known for certain, but there is a close relationship between them
and the planetary time-period allocations in the calculations of Vettius Valens from the 2nd century AD.
Click to expand...

dr. farr said:
Yes, the minimum time frames given above have seemed to be fairly accurate in actual practice, although most of what I do is astro-therapeutic horaries and decumbitures (also some relationship horary-I have little or no experience in other horary fields such as business ventures, vocation, travel, legal issues/lawsuits, finding of lost objects, sports or financial interrogations)

In my understanding the Ankara tradition applied the above time-frame parameters in horary and also in event-ramification analysis. There is a subsidiary time-frame table which was appiled for what were called "sudden" or "immediate" interrogations: that is, questions of an "acute" nature about developments over a very short period of time (days and hours) I have appended this ultra-short time-frame table below.

ARIES: hours: 3..... days: 3

TAURUS: hours: 16..... days: 1

GEMINI: hours: 4..... days: 4

CANCER: hours: 5..... days: 5

LEO: hours: 23..... days: 3

VIRGO: hours: 4..... days: 4

LIBRA: hours: 16..... days: 1

SCORPIO: hours: 3..... days: 3

SAGITTARIUS: hours: 12..... days: 2

CAPRICORN: hours: 15..... days: 5

AQUARIUS: hours: 6..... days: 6

PISCES: hours: 2..... days: 2


(Note: I have no personal experience with the hour/day time-frame parameters)
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