help!!! anterior cruciate ligament injury ..really?

Dear all I would like your help reading a medical question....regarding my leg.

Last Tuesday I injured my leg at the gym during training ...so the next day I made the question if my knee was badly injured or what will happen....and about an hour ago I returned from the hospital and I feel so sad because the doctor said anterior cruciate ligament injury...so again I made a second chart asking about the doctors' diagnosis ...what do you think?

At the first chart I considered..saturn as knee natural dispositor and also this debilitated sun, since its the end of 10nth moon (leg...thighs+knees)...at the second chart knee as l11 moon in libra inside my L2 and saturn again...anyway i don't want to say what I think here since my judgment might be distorted and prejudiced ...so I would like to hear your thoughts about it...many thanks in advance

Aria Venue said:

Dear all I would like your help reading a medical question....regarding my leg.

Last Tuesday I injured my leg at the gym during training ...so the next day I made the question if my knee was badly injured or what will happen....and about an hour ago I returned from the hospital and I feel so sad because the doctor said anterior cruciate ligament injury...so again I made a second chart asking about the doctors' diagnosis ...what do you think?

At the first chart I considered..saturn as knee natural dispositor and also this debilitated sun, since its the end of 10nth moon (leg...thighs+knees)...at the second chart knee as l11 moon in libra inside my L2 and saturn again...anyway i don't want to say what I think here since my judgment might be distorted and prejudiced ...so I would like to hear your thoughts about it...many thanks in advance

Click to expand...

here is the second chart i did today...regarding doctors' diagnosis...perhaps i shouldn't ask again ...in that case please ignore the second chart

Do you have any reason to doubt your doctor? Horary is usually reserved for questions that you cannot answer through the usual ways. Also, you can ask a question only once: horary goes by the moment of the question. Multiple charts confuse the issue of which is the true moment of the question. Normally it would be the first chart.

It's interesting to me that Capricorn rules the knees and lower legs. A German astrologer, Reinhold Ebertin, worked on degree points representing various body parts, and he gives 10 degrees Capricorn as ruling ligaments of the right knee, and 11 degrees Capricorn as ruling the left knee. In the first chart, your significator Venus sits right at 11 degrees of Capricorn. I'd say that's pretty close!

thank so much dear waybread for your prompt reply

Yes i know what you mean..i shouldn't have asked twice for the same thing...but yet something doesn't fit with doctors' diagnosis...actually the injury happened last Tuesday ...i casted the first chart the next day wednesday..and the first doctor who saw my leg on Thursday said that clinically seemed very well and in case something very serious had happened like anterior cruciate ligament i should have been in extreme pain...and that i couldn't even walk...then last saturday i made the mri , just in case, and the results were saying "possible" ..so yesterday i went back to the hospital where however my doctor wasn't there so another one saw the mri and he confirmed that there is indeed anterior cruciate ligament injury!!! So yes it seems to me so strange...i am not in pain unless i make an extreme athletic movement...i walk almost as before...and all these in very short time...that's very strange...unless i am a super woman and i was able to heal the injury in less than a week So this is the reason i made the second chart...and having all these on my mind..whether and when i'll be able to return to my everyday sports activities .This injury is treated permanently only with surgery...the physio can help of course, but the leg cannot be the same as before. So i was thinking...am i going to need surgery...shall i be able to continue as before...shall i manage to succeed on my level exams in april....all these stuff

regarding the horary now...what you said about venus it might be..but yet the injury happened on my right knee
so in the first chart i have fortuna beside saturn, but also sun is debilitated and from 7 picses will sextile mars...natural dispositor of surgery...on the other hand if i consider the doctor/or the diagnostic results as L9 mercury besieged by the rays will conjunct neptune in my l6...

on the second chart again saturn strong but moon my co-ruler and l11 knee, via combusta ...something we already know and this Neptune again sitting almost at the cusp of L7(doctor?)...moon will square saturn in 1 (l6 also), trine L7 jupiter in 5, square this venus next to pluto( physical ruler of mars also) in 5 and when she enters scorpio...will opposite mars L7 inside technically l8 house... so surgery?... not to mention...moons' antiscion next to neptune... really i don't know what to think here

What is your most fundamental question? Is it, "Did the doctor make a wrong diagnosis?" "Is my knee OK?" Or, "Am I going to need surgery?" A chart can give an ambiguous answer if the question is not what really concerns the querent.

You might consider getting a second medical opinion. Horary is not really a substitute for questions that can be answered through other channels-- or at least not within a time frame that is important to the querent. Then the chart needs to be cast just once, for the time when you first seriously asked the question. My guess is that the time would have been right after you got the diagnosis, but perhaps it didn't come up for you immediately.

In a medical horary, the doctor is a 7th house matter. Surgeons are ruled by Mars; and by extension, Mars rules surgeons more generally. The 10th house rules the lower legs, and Saturn rules the hard tissues of the body.

Some astrologers use the modern planets routinely. I use them as supplementary data points, and then only if they seem highly relevant to the chart.

Perhaps you can comment on whether the first chart is accurate for the timing of the question (not the time you cast the chart, which would be later,) and then cast the most accurate chart you can, if you think these two are later.

Not every planet in horary will be relevant.

I think that sometimes if a chart doesn't look like a good picture of the subject asked about, there's a good chance that the time is off.

waybread said:

What is your most fundamental question? Is it, "Did the doctor make a wrong diagnosis?" "Is my knee OK?" Or, "Am I going to need surgery?" A chart can give an ambiguous answer if the question is not what really concerns the querent.

You might consider getting a second medical opinion. Horary is not really a substitute for questions that can be answered through other channels-- or at least not within a time frame that is important to the querent. Then the chart needs to be cast just once, for the time when you first seriously asked the question. My guess is that the time would have been right after you got the diagnosis, but perhaps it didn't come up for you immediately.

In a medical horary, the doctor is a 7th house matter. Surgeons are ruled by Mars; and by extension, Mars rules surgeons more generally. The 10th house rules the lower legs, and Saturn rules the hard tissues of the body.

Some astrologers use the modern planets routinely. I use them as supplementary data points, and then only if they seem highly relevant to the chart.

Perhaps you can comment on whether the first chart is accurate for the timing of the question (not the time you cast the chart, which would be later,) and then cast the most accurate chart you can, if you think these two are later.

Not every planet in horary will be relevant.

I think that sometimes if a chart doesn't look like a good picture of the subject asked about, there's a good chance that the time is off.

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Thank you again my dear waybread for your respond
What you said is absolutely right and actually this is what I am going to do this week...see my doctor first and perhaps and another one as to guide me what's better for my case.Perhaps the injury is first level and in that case things might be simpler.Anyway you may understand that i can't judge this chart objectively, since I am distressed...at least the moon in via combusta is indicative of my situation

So i think the wisest thing, as you already said, is to wait for a 2nd opinion and in that case if I feel the urge to ask something specific I will

many thanks again

Best of luck, and please let us know how it works out. That way I learn more astrology.

waybread said:

Best of luck, and please let us know how it works out. That way I learn more astrology.

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thank you my dear waybread
I'll certainly need it and as soon as I get the second opinion from my doctor I'll inform you. Actually, I'll meet him this Thursday. So I hope to hear something good...at least better from the last time We'll see...

Update
I asked two more doctors...they saw the mri and they said that there is indeed an anterior cruciate ligament injury in the knee but only in the one of them (actually we have two (there are 4 knee ligaments: anterior cruciate ligament - ACL and posterior cruciate ligament - PCL and medial collateral ligament - MCL and lateral collateral ligament - LCL)...the other PCL is so strong and this is why I wasn't in pain and I could walk...and the reason that clinically my leg seemed ok, so when the first doctor examined it he thought that there was no serious injury. Today the last doctor said that I can continue training as before and through time I can strengthen it more through exercise hamstrings and quadriceps...according to him physio won't help it

Thanks for the update-- it seems that no surgery is necessary.

Hi

Vedic form of horary (prashna it is called) using sidereal zodiac. So this is the same chart as posted first, converted to sidereal positions.

Ascendant in virgo.
Asc. lord (body) Mercury is placed in 6th house of health.
10th lord (knee) is also Mercury in 6th.

Is separating from aspect to mars in 8th ( injury).

Is applying to square to moon (exalted benefic) in 9th house (doctor).
Is applying further to venus (benefic 9th lord).

The fact that your ruler mercury is applying to benefics is a good sign of healing and good results. The square involved from moon makes for the double messages and doubt.

( One cool factor in the horary is that mercury the ruler is placed in the lunar mansion/nakshatra Shatabisha
Shatabisha it's name is "Translation: "Hundred Physicians", "Hundred Medicines", "Possessing a Hundred Healers"
It is a star related to healing and health issues. Often having to do with searching for the answer, thereof the '100 physicians').

If you want post your natal chart for seeing knee injury ?



Your sidereal horary chart below:

Shanti said:

Hi

Vedic form of horary (prashna it is called) using sidereal zodiac. So this is the same chart as posted first, converted to sidereal positions.

Ascendant in virgo.
Asc. lord (body) Mercury is placed in 6th house of health.
10th lord (knee) is also Mercury in 6th.

Is separating from aspect to mars in 8th ( injury).

Is applying to square to moon (exalted benefic) in 9th house (doctor).
Is applying further to venus (benefic 9th lord).

The fact that your ruler mercury is applying to benefics is a good sign of healing and good results. The square involved from moon makes for the double messages and doubt.

( One cool factor in the horary is that mercury the ruler is placed in the lunar mansion/nakshatra Shatabisha
Shatabisha it's name is "Translation: "Hundred Physicians", "Hundred Medicines", "Possessing a Hundred Healers"
It is a star related to healing and health issues. Often having to do with searching for the answer, thereof the '100 physicians').

If you want post your natal chart for seeing knee injury ?



Your sidereal horary chart below:

Click to expand...

hello Shanti
Thank you so much for your time to see this chart Actually I have no experience on Vedic form of horary (prashna it is called) but these are very useful information What I saw in my horary and puzzled me from the beginning...besides the fact that clinically my knee seemed in a very good state...was the pof next to saturn...and then this neptune floating in my 6th while this mercury L9 (the news I was expecting to hear...moon was about to square L9 in 1 degree more or less) applying to him ...so I thought what's going on here?tissues/saturn strong but sun/L10 in detriment
Anyway I think that I'll be able to surpass this difficulty through exercise
Regarding your question now...what exactly would you like me to send you?my natal chart? date of birth etc...?

waybread said:

Thanks for the update-- it seems that no surgery is necessary.

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Yes my dear waybreadI think that I'll be able to surpass this difficulty through exercise Anyway I'll see how things are going ...Only yesterday i decided to go back to the gym and see how I feel. I just Hope I'll be able enough and in good condition to pass my exams on April 14th...we'll see in the next weeks...I'll keep you informed

Regarding your question now...what exactly would you like me to send you?my natal chart? date of birth etc...?

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Just birthdetails if you want to. I like to see the whole picture. Will not post your birth info.

Best wishes for good healing...

Shanti said:

Just birthdetails if you want to. I like to see the whole picture. Will not post your birth info.

Best wishes for good healing...

Click to expand...

Thank you Dear Shanti. I'll sent you them

OK thanks looked at it.

The chart don't alarm me so much healthwise.

You are in your sidereal chart running a subperiod of saturn,( knee.)
This subperiod can give some knee issues.
Your sidereal ascendant is capricorn so there is some predisposition for knee issues.
Total fullmooneclipse in jan. was right on this cap ascendant.
transiting mars opposing sun in vedic 10th house (knee's).
transiting mars squaring node in 1st house in capricorn (body).
transiting Uranus squaring ascendant.
Transiting south node (ketu) on ascendant.

Summary
So eclipse activated ascendant in capricorn is quite actively transited.
In subperiod of saturn. Mars transits as well reflecting the gym injury.

Shanti said:

OK thanks looked at it.

The chart don't alarm me so much healthwise.

You are in your sidereal chart running a subperiod of saturn,( knee.)
This subperiod can give some knee issues.
Your sidereal ascendant is capricorn so there is some predisposition for knee issues.
Total fullmooneclipse in jan. was right on this cap ascendant.
transiting mars opposing sun in vedic 10th house (knee's).
transiting mars squaring node in 1st house in capricorn (body).
transiting Uranus squaring ascendant.
Transiting south node (ketu) on ascendant.

Summary
So eclipse activated ascendant in capricorn is quite actively transited.
In subperiod of saturn. Mars transits as well reflecting the gym injury.

Click to expand...

wow!!! I am amazed with all these informationsThank you so much ...So you think that i run a crucial period related to accidents