Please help me gain insights into my mom's very complicated chart?

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BaoSanniang

Well-known member
This is the chart of my mom, whom, unfortunately, has been quite abusive and manipulative towards me at several occasions in my life. Before I go into too many details (I'll discuss her further in subsequent replies), I have to say she's one of the most complicated / complex people I've ever known. It's like she has so many sides to her, I can never quite figure her out. She also keeps secrets from just about everyone, including me, and I feel as if her whole life's characterized by uncertainties, fantasies, and power struggles / manipulation both as a result of her own behavior and as a result of larger forces. It's like she operates on an entirely different level from me, one that's much less straightforward. I can never quite figure her out and I feel like she's not capable of really figuring herself out. Being a Cancer sun I crave security and intimacy but I simply can't get it from her because she's just so difficult to deal with and understand. My folks divorced when I was 7.

It's really hard to spend an extended period of time around her because she can be so neurotic and suspicious, she tends to see the darkness in just about everyone and everything. Perhaps she's gotten to a point where it's difficult for her to imagine a life that's actually simple and peaceful, because her life's pretty much like the title of a certain Dragonforce song made popular by Guitar Hero (I'll leave the song title for you guys to guess, it's not hard). There are times where she shows a bit more of her softness and sensitivity and it draws people, including me, into thinking that she's actually quite a gentle soul. However, it doesn't take long before she goes back to being suspicious, neurotic, and seemingly ready to explode at the drop of a hat. It's this frustrating inconsistency and emotional instability within her that manifests as sensitivity, manipulation, being high-strung, aloofness, suspicion and anger all at the same time that makes for such a high degree of unpredictability, making sustaining intimate relationships for herself and for the other party so difficult.

Looking at her chart, it's one of the most complex I have ever seen. She has 21 aspects involving either an inner planet or the ascendant. Her Sun and Venus each have a whopping 7 aspects. A number of them are out-of-sign but I have never seen any one planet so heavily aspected in the charts I've looked up, but she has TWO very heavily aspected planets. Furthermore, ALL of the 3 outer planets are involved with her natal planets. What stands out is that all 3 are involved with her Sun and her Venus. Saturn trines her Ascendant and Neptune squares her Ascendant.

While most of the aspects involving the 3 outer planets are flowing, it certainly hasn't made her life any easier. It's like she deals with so many struggles, difficulties, obstacles both externally and internally, it's like she's not so much in control of her world and her life but rather it's the world and external circumstances that seems to control and guide her. I don't even know the person she truly is, I'm not even sure if she still knows the person she truly is, she's so hard to talk to because she's always so guarded and cautious yet so "out there" that it's difficult to really understand all of what's going on inside of her. Adding to the difficulty is the fact that she's such a chameleon that really presents different faces to different people and situations.

On the other hand, I feel like my chart and its aspects are so much simpler and the struggles are much more clearer. I've rarely ever had any doubt about myself and my values, and it's not that hard for me to stay simple though I do fantasize and idealize a lot. It's like with just about anything, my mom has twice, perhaps even three more layers of things to consider compared to me.

So, I'll post her chart and I'll let you guys have a look and give me insights into her personality, her life, and why she's just so much more complex as a person than I could ever fathom becoming.

Here are my aspects (those involving natal planets and / or ascendant) for comparison:
Sun Conjunct Mercury
Sun Opposition Jupiter
Sun Square Saturn
Moon Trine Venus
Moon Trine Mars
Moon Sextile Ascendant
Mercury Square Saturn
Venus Conjunct Mars
Venus Sextile Saturn
Venus Opposition Ascendant
Mars Opposition Ascendant

ASC is 18.03 degrees Sagittarius with Jupiter in I and at 12.54 degrees Capricorn. Was born on July 3, 1996 at 18:10 in Chongqing, China.


These are her aspects (involving natal planets and / or the ascendant):
Sun Conjunct Venus
Sun Sextile Mars
Sun Square Jupiter
Sun Square Saturn
Sun Trine Uranus
Sun Sextile Neptune
Sun Trine Pluto
Moon Sextile Uranus
Mercury Square Uranus
Venus Sextile Mars
Venus Square Jupiter
Venus Square Saturn
Venus Trine Uranus
Venus Sextile Neptune
Venus Trine Pluto
Mars Sextile Neptune
Mars Opposition Pluto

Saturn Trine Ascendant

Neptune Square Ascendant



Very charismatic woman, knows what to say and when to say it. Does a pretty good job of being an angel, but once you really get to know her you'll see that she has so many fears, insecurities, obsessions, and that she can be an absolutely frightening person. After 15 years she still has leftover emotional baggage from her marriage and it's caused lots of misery for me as she projected those emotions onto me. Whenever she saw I was behaving somewhat like my dad, I could feel that part of her within really despised me and almost wanting to get rid of me. I've come to simply accept the fact that I'll never be able to get what I want and need from her because she's too dysfunctional, so now my priority is on making my own life as happy as possible. A lot of times I just don't know how to respond to her, it's like she's so dark, deep, complex and mysterious (even though she's an Aquarius) and touches on a realm of life, a part of the world that's too dark and too alien for me to ever step into.

While I can be prone to pessimism regarding people and things, she's not only pessimistic but Machiavellian. Another thing I've noticed is she has Scorpio on her IC. Her IC squares her Ascendant, trines her Mars, and sextiles her Pluto. I believe it's due to the Pluto part but I can feel she keeps lots of family secrets, lots of things I don't know about her past. I also have Pluto trine my IC at 0 degrees Aries but I've been kept out of all this mess that has characterized and shaped her. It really feels like her life course and mine are going in totally different directions with little to no common ground. I just don't want to spend so much time deciphering such a complex, difficult, and evasive person because I need security, assurance, warmth and stability to feed my Water.



Here's her chart:
C's Chart.png
 
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K

kshantaram

Premium Member
moon leo high self-pride, individualistic, sensitive;

sun-venus acq 6th, power of personality, winning through personal charm;
artistic aptitudes-dance etc, reformist; heart-kidney issues etc;

ketu SNode virgo first, hyper-critical thinking/attitude; attention catching looks;
head-hip-intestinal injury; good for audit-editorial-quality control roles;


jup secretive scorpio 3rd, research-occult-forensic-advisory roles;

jup-sat opp, misjudgments-missed opportunities;

sat taurus, aptitude for hotel management-cuisine, stubborn;


hope this helps understand,
share pointwise salient ground feedbacks how true-insightful-helpful;


wishing well, kshantaram
 
Gemini888

Gemini888

Well-known member
Moon in Leo in 12H is a mismatch. Leo wants to shine but 12H wants to be invisible.


Pluto-Mars opposition causes a lot of bottled up anger. Mars in Pisces is prone to passive-aggressive.


Also that 8H Chiron over there loosely conj Mars. She looks like she has an issue with intimacy and death. She is desperate for someone to "complete" here, to make her feel bonded, and she would resort to violence and manipulation for that. These 8H also makes her obsessed with secret.



Sun and Venus are caught in a T-square between Saturn and Jupiter. She is confused as to whether to let her personality shine through or try to blend in. With both planets in Aqua, I would guess she is a rebel at heart, but somehow learned that being a rebel was not good, hence all the frustration.


SN in 1H in Virgo is obsessed with perfectionism and the self. In your mom's case, I'm guessing she hasn't evolved into her NN yet.
 
B

BaoSanniang

Well-known member
Gemini888 said:
Moon in Leo in 12H is a mismatch. Leo wants to shine but 12H wants to be invisible.


Pluto-Mars opposition causes a lot of bottled up anger. Mars in Pisces is prone to passive-aggressive.


Also that 8H Chiron over there loosely conj Mars. She looks like she has an issue with intimacy and death. She is desperate for someone to "complete" here, to make her feel bonded, and she would resort to violence and manipulation for that. These 8H also makes her obsessed with secret.



S


If we include all of the aspects involving the natal planets, Jupiter, Saturn, and the outer planets (Uranus, Neptune, Pluto) aspecting the Ascendant, she has a total of 21. I have a total of 11. Does this mean she has a lot more in her life to work with / sort out compared to me? So far this really seems to be the case, I know almost nothing about her life when she was in her teens and early twenties, save for a few fragments. She's never even bothered telling me and giving me a complete picture like a normal parent would do. Could this be because of her Sun-Pluto and Venus (because Venus also rules social contacts)-Pluto and now that you've mentioned it, Chiron in the 8th?

She is a very conflicted, even emotionally and mentally tortured person, but nevertheless it doesn't make me feel any sympathy for her because like I've said at numerous points in my life up till now she's tried making me miserable instead of making me feel better about myself, just like the old saying "misery demands company." Now that I'm older and able to have a better picture, I realize that she's projecting a lot of her own inner conflicts between free will and its antithesis, between living your life as you wish vs. submitting to external conditions and demands, all of these inner conflicts she's trying to project onto me.

I've read somewhere that Moon in XII tends to make the individual unaware of the expression of his / her's Moon sign because it's hidden deep within their personality. In my mom's case I can see how she's not aware of her Moon in Leo. My folks divorced when I was 7 and even after 15 years she still harbors hatred towards my dad, probably even towards men, and she's projected a lot of her unresolved negative feelings onto me. You can imagine how it's made me feel. I have a bit of a hard time imagining how a Leo moon can harbor intense feelings for so long because in my understanding it's more of a Scorpio thing.

What do you believe is the sense of "completeness" that she could be looking for? What would make her feel bonded to someone? Is it more of a healthy / beneficial bond centered around respect, happiness, and responsibility, or is it something much more dark and destructive? Just what kind of person is she looking for?

She can be so charming and magnetic, but she also has this extremely private side to her that's a complete mystery to people. including me. You try to push just a bit too close, she'll fight back. I can't say I am close to fully understanding her.

I was struck by seeing that pretty tight Mars-Pluto opposition in her chart. I imagine had she been born just 2 days later, she'd have Mars in Aries and potentially be even more frightening when upset. She's not the most outwardly explosive of people, you're right, she does tend to be passive-aggressive more often than not (which still, is extremely frustrating to deal with when we consider the fact that she's already so conflicted and tormented) but when she does explode, she can be an absolute hurricane that's hard to control. Even when the flames have cooled, she still lingers obsessively over things for a long, but unknown period of time.

Mars-Pluto represents a fusion of two of the most explosive and combative planetary energies. While Mars is more straightforward and easier to decode, Pluto can be much more dark and destructive. If Mars is the rampaging conqueror, Pluto is the scheming politician or strategist who can adopt a much more subtle and surgical approach, resorting to just about anything to get what it wants. Put those two together, you get a beast that needs to be chained to the deepest pit in hell until the individual learns to control it, and she clearly hasn't.

What other issues could she have with intimacy, and you also mentioned death. Well one thing I do know is that her parents divorced when she was 3, so her father was pretty much absent from her upbringing, her own mother's a hell of a vile and crafty woman. I don't know what impact her parents' divorce and her father's leaving may have had on her.

As for myself, I also have a Sun-Jupiter-Saturn T-square but overall I don't feel nearly as unbalanced and out of control as she is. Saturn's the apex of my T-square and I've had to overcome a fair number of things, but in most ways I believe I am still well-balanced and well-adjusted. My Sun in VII at 11 degrees Cancer is opposite my Jupiter in I (I am Sagittarius rising) at 12.54 Capricorn, my sun is square my Saturn which is in IV at 7.12 degrees Aries (so you can see where a lot of my pain comes from, but I've worked hard to stay true to myself and build my own life), and my Jupiter is square my Saturn.
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Gemini888

Gemini888

Well-known member
BaoSanniang said:
If we include all of the aspects involving the natal planets, Jupiter, Saturn, and the outer planets (Uranus, Neptune, Pluto) aspecting the Ascendant, she has a total of 21. I have a total of 11. Does this mean she has a lot more in her life to work with / sort out compared to me?
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Not really. She seems to me more like someone who hasn't got to control her own energy.



So far this really seems to be the case, I know almost nothing about her life when she was in her teens and early twenties, save for a few fragments. She's never even bothered telling me and giving me a complete picture like a normal parent would do. Could this be because of her Sun-Pluto and Venus (because Venus also rules social contacts)-Pluto and now that you've mentioned it, Chiron in the 8th?
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Yeah, Sun-Pluto-Venus and Chiron.


What do you believe is the sense of "completeness" that she could be looking for? What would make her feel bonded to someone? Is it more of a healthy / beneficial bond centered around respect, happiness, and responsibility, or is it something much more dark and destructive? Just what kind of person is she looking for?
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This will shock you, but I think she is looking for no one. Let's me explain: Chiron is the unhealed wound. Unevolved Chiron will look for anything to fill in their would. The house is where the wound is located and the sign determines how someone goes around to heal their wound. With Chiron in 8H in Aries, she has no patience for a naturally developed relationship. She wants her bonding now. She will go for anyone who she feels will fill her void. And she will overdo it. It's less about an ideal person she has in her mind, it's more about satisfying her impulse. Mars conj Chiron only makes the matter worse.



She can be so charming and magnetic, but she also has this extremely private side to her that's a complete mystery to people. including me. You try to push just a bit too close, she'll fight back. I can't say I am close to fully understanding her.
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Venus in Aqua trine Uranus maybe? Some people just need some space. Your mom may be an abuser, but you have to understand that some people need a level of freedom to breathe, especially people with Uranus/Aqua influence. They feel much better if you don't force them to constantly stay close to you.


I was struck by seeing that pretty tight Mars-Pluto opposition in her chart. I imagine had she been born just 2 days later, she'd have Mars in Aries and potentially be even more frightening when upset.
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To be honest I would rather she had Aries Mars. Sure, she would blow a fuse easily, but direct confrontation is much less toxic than passive aggression, and Aries doesn't hold grudge. Also assertive Aries would have motivate her to work through her issue better.
 
B

BaoSanniang

Well-known member
Gemini888 said:
Not really. She seems to me more like someone who hasn't got to control her own energy.



Yeah, Sun-Pluto-Venus and Chiron.


This will shock you, but I think she is looking for no one. Let's me explain: Chiron is the unhealed wound. Unevolved Chiron will look for anything to fill in their would. The house is where the wound is located and the sign determines how someone goes around to heal their wound. With Chiron in 8H in Aries, she has no patience for a naturally developed relationship. She wants her bonding now. She will go for anyone who she feels will fill her void. And she will overdo it. It's less about an ideal person she has in her mind, it's more about satisfying her impulse. Mars conj Chiron only makes the matter worse.



Venus in Aqua trine Uranus maybe? Some people just need some space. Your mom may be an abuser, but you have to understand that some people need a level of freedom to breathe, especially people with Uranus/Aqua influence. They feel much better if you don't force them to constantly stay close to you.


To be honest I would rather she had Aries Mars. Sure, she would blow a fuse easily, but direct confrontation is much less toxic than passive aggression, and Aries doesn't hold grudge. Also assertive Aries would have motivate her to work through her issue better.
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Wow your analysis furthers my belief that there is a devil in her. She is among the people that have left me with a negative impression of Pluto, probably 8th house as well. If you read my replies in another thread titled "is Pluto misunderstood?" you'll find out more about why I am so averse to Plutonic people and Pluto energy when I come into contact with it.

I have Aquarius influence as well but I don't feel like I have need for THAT much space, when I get very comfortable with someone I want to pursue lots of intimacy with them. It takes time but when I open up to someone they'll find I'm not actually the cold and aloof person I seem like when they first encounter me. I'm actually very warm, emotional, and caring. Sometimes I still need a bit of time to myself when I'm feeling a bit out-of-balance and need time to realign myself, or if I just need to recharge my batteries so I can re-engage the other person better.

My Moon in Aquarius makes me quite a bit of a loner and I do like to reflect on lots of philosophical things, I still have a Cancer sun that makes me quite emotional but sometimes I also have a hard time comprehending why people are so attached and why they react so strongly to things that should be easy for me. Pretty chill dude most of the time, if I am to rate myself. Also disagree with the very worldly / humanitarian / futuristic tendencies of Aquarius. I am more of a past / present-oriented person and am more often than not skeptical of overly innovative and futuristic ideas or trends.

My theory: I suspect Aquarius influence shows up in 2 forms? One is more Saturn-dominant Aquarius energy and one is more Uranus-dominant Aquarius energy?

It's interesting how you brought up her Chiron Aries in House 8 and how she isn't really looking for "that" person, but she just wants to control and manipulate as her way of bonding whenever she feels like it. Short-term gratification? Are you essentially saying intimate relationships would be extremely difficult for her to sustain and for the other person, that she's essentially incapable of having a truly fulfilling and healthy relationship? Just what exactly about true intimacy does she fear?

You also mentioned how she might have subconscious / unconscious fears about death. What could they be?

As for other comments regarding the overall condition of her chart compared to mine, please let me know. By looking at our charts, can you easily tell that our energies are quite different?
 
Gemini888

Gemini888

Well-known member
Because your Mom is an Aqua Sun/Venus, from my experience with Aquarius people, I can see that they are divided into two categories: one is the stereotyped hispter with a big heart and acceptance to everyone, and the other is the utterly egostical jerks who thinks they are the best. Remember, Aqua is the opposite sign of Leo, so they also carry a large amount of pride. They just don't want to admit it. So yeah, if your mom is an unevolved Aqua, you can expect to see her ego in action.


I think the reason why you don't feel like having that much space is because of your Cancer placements. Do you have Cancer planets making hard contact with Uranus/Aqua planets? That also causes the conflict between being free and being close to people.


I'm not saying that your mom will never have a good relationship with anyone. Like I said, every placement has an evolved and unevolved stages. You just have to know how to work toward the evolved stage. With Chiron, it's an interesting story. You have to accept that you have a wound and stop finding a way to mend it. In other words, you don't try to provoke Chiron. I think your mom is unaware of this fact, and as long as she's unaware, she will continue to hunt for her instant gratification. If she doesn't stop, I think she will very much be stuck in the circle of destruction forever.



I can't tell you how you stack up to your mom just with some description of your aspect. Can you generate a synastry chart of you and her?


About the death thing, I don't know, I don't even know her anyway. I just read what is in the chart.
 
B

BaoSanniang

Well-known member
Well I have Chiron in Libra in House X and what I can say is anything related to the public, to career and social standing and socializing is a difficult area of life for me. And I think I've made peace with it, I accept it won't be my source of happiness so well, I can find happiness in the things that matter more to me like love, family, and my own world I withdraw into.

However, my Chiron aspects are quite different from my mom's. I have Sun Sq. Chiron, Mercury Sq. Chiron, Jupiter Sq. Chiron and Saturn Opp. Chiron, but I have Moon, Venus, and Mars all trine Chiron, Uranus Trine Chiron, and Pluto Sextile Chiron.
 
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