Judging the position of a planet

Hello everybody,

I am a newbie in astrology and while discusing planet strength with a friend we stumbled tried to solve this problem (it's partialy based on reality but it's more of an thought exercise). Could somebody tell me if we our thought go the right way or should we just forget about all of this?

Our thought experiment:
Let's say a person has Moon in Leo (1 degree no dignity there). The fact that Moon is in Leo also says that this person's feeling of security will depend on his ability to attract attention. So, even more than usual this person needs a good Sun to make his Moon work.

This same person has Sun in Libra (10 degree also no dignities there). Which is a weak position for the Sun because here the Sun is very much oriented on other people, it's more reacting than acting. Getting attention to satisfy the Moon just became bit more complicated and also dependend on the Venus.

So, let's say this person has Venus in Scorpio (25 degrees also no dignites here). This says that this person will look for deep bonds and dislike superficial contacts, also trust will be a problem in relationships and this persons ability to make room in relationships will be very important in having any. Which makes the venus dependend on the Mars position.

So, here the story ends. Mars in this case is in Pisces (15 degrees no dignities there). In Pisces Mars has difficulty to fight for himself and needs other to feel purpose.

So, could we say that all this planets pile up problems on top of the initial security issue of the Moon? We concluded that because of this dependencies such a person would have a very hard time feel accepted and this particular Moon would be very bad positioned in Leo. Is this a good astrological analysis or we don't get things?

pschutz said:

Hello everybody,

I am a newbie in astrology
and while discusing planet strength
with a friend we stumbled tried to solve this problem
(it's partialy based on reality but it's more of an thought exercise).
Could somebody tell me if we our thought go the right way
or should we just forget about all of this?
Our thought experiment:
Let's say a person has Moon in Leo (1 degree no dignity there). The fact that Moon is in Leo also says that this person's feeling of security will depend on his ability to attract attention. So, even more than usual this person needs a good Sun to make his Moon work.
This same person has Sun in Libra (10 degree also no dignities there). Which is a weak position for the Sun because here the Sun is very much oriented on other people, it's more reacting than acting. Getting attention to satisfy the Moon just became bit more complicated and also dependend on the Venus.

So, let's say this person has Venus in Scorpio (25 degrees also no dignites here). This says that this person will look for deep bonds and dislike superficial contacts, also trust will be a problem in relationships and this persons ability to make room in relationships will be very important in having any. Which makes the venus dependend on the Mars position.

So, here the story ends. Mars in this case is in Pisces (15 degrees no dignities there). In Pisces Mars has difficulty to fight for himself and needs other to feel purpose. So, could we say that all this planets pile up problems on top of the initial security issue of the Moon?

We concluded that because of this dependencies

such a person would have a very hard time feel accepted

and this particular Moon would be very bad positioned in Leo.

Is this a good astrological analysis or we don't get things?

Click to expand...

VEDIC ASTROLOGY for example has a different perspective from WESTERN ASTROLOGY

and also
Modernist astrology and Traditional astrology each has yet another perspective

meanwhile
these are instructions
HOW TO ATTACH A CHART TO YOUR POST ON THE FORUM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwadm

DESKTOP
1) Once you generate the chart image using your favourite website, copy the image address

2) Click on the Attachment icon (if you don't see it, select 'Advanced' posting first)

3) New window will open, paste the image address, click Upload button, close the window
https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=118441

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=12126
Extended Chart Selecton Page at astro.com has options
to choose
from amongst the fourteen currently most popular house systems in use

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/index.php

There is not chart to attach. We started with a real person but then just tried to explore different positions. It says that and the begining, it's just a thought experiment to learn astrology better. But we couldn't say if that is the right way to work with rulerships of planets or not. So is it? This is a western astrology forum, so is this how western astrology works with rulerships or are we wrong?

What confuses me that I haven't seen in any book this "chaining" of dependncies, that makes Moon in Leo depend on the Sun in Libra, that depends on Venus in Scorpio, that depends on Mars. Which means that the Moon is depended on and also all in between. Is everychart this complicated to divine?

pschutz said:

There is not chart to attach. We started with a real person but then just tried to explore different positions. It says that and the begining, it's just a thought experiment to learn astrology better. But we couldn't say if that is the right way to work with rulerships of planets or not. So is it? This is a western astrology forum, so is this how western astrology works with rulerships or are we wrong?

What confuses me that I haven't seen in any book this "chaining" of dependncies, that makes Moon in Leo depend on the Sun in Libra, that depends on Venus in Scorpio, that depends on Mars. Which means that the Moon is depended on and also all in between. Is everychart this complicated to divine?

Click to expand...

What is complicated.
Seven planets rule 12 signs in a simple symmetrical system.
Life works in the same way as the system of rulerships...one thing depends on another and is determined by that other.

pschutz said:

There is not chart to attach. We started with a real person but then just tried to explore different positions. It says that and the begining, it's just a thought experiment to learn astrology better. But we couldn't say if that is the right way to work with rulerships of planets or not. So is it? This is a western astrology forum, so is this how western astrology works with rulerships or are we wrong?

What confuses me that I haven't seen in any book this "chaining" of dependncies, that makes Moon in Leo depend on the Sun in Libra, that depends on Venus in Scorpio, that depends on Mars. Which means that the Moon is depended on and also all in between. Is everychart this complicated to divine?

Click to expand...

Honestly, I've never seen such ''chaining'' either because it sounds very complicated, but generally a planet outside of its domicile does not signify full dependancy on the ruler's significations in my opinion. Some Hellenistic and Medieval authors (Dorotheus, Manetho, Abu Ali) treated it almost as conjunction by mixing the significations of both planets.

So, could we say that all this planets pile up problems on top of the initial security issue of the Moon? We concluded that because of this dependencies such a person would have a very hard time feel accepted and this particular Moon would be very bad positioned in Leo. Is this a good astrological analysis or we don't get things?

Click to expand...

If you think that the feeling of acceptance and well-being depends on the Moon, it will be much easier to focus on its position rather than its 5th dispositor in the chain. Check its angularity and whether it is aspected by malefics or benefics.

I feel like you tried to combine the modern thinking of Moon sign with traditional notion of dispositorship, but dispositorship was usually used with the sense of dignity (planetary strength), not generating chains of dependancies on the significations. It would be cool if you had found a way to synthesize both to make elaborate character predictions.

pschutz said:

There is not chart to attach. We started with a real person but then just tried to explore different positions. It says that and the begining, it's just a thought experiment to learn astrology better. But we couldn't say if that is the right way to work with rulerships of planets or not. So is it? This is a western astrology forum, so is this how western astrology works with rulerships or are we wrong?

What confuses me that I haven't seen in any book this "chaining" of dependncies, that makes Moon in Leo depend on the Sun in Libra, that depends on Venus in Scorpio, that depends on Mars. Which means that the Moon is depended on and also all in between. Is everychart this complicated to divine?

Click to expand...

greybeard said:

What is complicated.
Seven planets rule 12 signs in a simple symmetrical system.
Life works in the same way as the system of rulerships...one thing depends on another and is determined by that other.

Click to expand...

DIAGRAM

petosiris said:

Honestly, I've never seen such ''chaining'' either because it sounds very complicated, but
generally a planet outside of its domicile does not signify full dependancy on the ruler's significations in my opinion.
Some Hellenistic and Medieval authors (Dorotheus, Manetho, Abu Ali) treated it almost as conjunction
by mixing the significations of both planets.
If you think that the feeling of acceptance and well-being depends on the Moon, it will be much easier to focus on its position rather than its 5th dispositor in the chain.
Check its angularity and whether it is aspected by malefics or benefics.
I feel like you tried to combine the modern thinking of Moon sign with traditional notion of dispositorship, but
dispositorship was usually used with the sense of dignity (planetary strength),
not generating chains of dependancies on the significations.
It would be cool if you had found a way to synthesize both to make elaborate character predictions.

Click to expand...

"Chaining" of rulerships has been practiced in western astrology since at least the Greeks, who used sole dispositors. It is very useful.

greybeard said:

"Chaining" of rulerships has been practiced in western astrology since at least the Greeks, who used sole dispositors. It is very useful.

Click to expand...

I would appreciate a Greek source.

If Saturn stays in the Sun's house, his father will be praiseworthy [and] will increase in his livelihood, but besides this his father will complain of dampness or will die a terrible death. - Dorotheus 2.33, translation by David Pingree

Click to expand...

James Holden in his translation of Abu Ali gives the following delineation for Saturn in Leo in nocturnal nativities:

And if it is a nocturnal birth, it signifies affliction of illness for the native and his father

Click to expand...

There is no notion of the star being solely dependant on the host, instead the ruler can be heavily influenced or even maltreated by the guest.

http://theastrologydictionary.com/f/final-dispositor/ - trees are a modern thing, and always strike me as very convoluted

petosiris said:

Honestly, I've never seen such ''chaining'' either because it sounds very complicated, but generally a planet outside of its domicile does not signify full dependancy on the ruler's significations in my opinion. Some Hellenistic and Medieval authors (Dorotheus, Manetho, Abu Ali) treated it almost as conjunction by mixing the significations of both planets.

Click to expand...

Probably we have been thinking very complicated about it, but still how do such "conjunctions" work? The presence of a planet in a sign doesn't modify the sign via it's house expression? You still have to chain meanings because if Aries is modified, Mars is also modified. It's one energy with multiple points of appeareance (sign, house, planet, aspect) but it's one source.

Or novice confusion?

The Sun has NO "weak" sign position. All signs have a specific function. Having the Sun in a sign represents the function of the Sun in that particular person's life.
LIN