Interpreting Empty Houses in Traditional Astrology

JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
SunConjunctUranus said:
@Juppy : did omni using tropical or sidereal on that example?
if that account using tropical, I would be the ones who very unfortune in 7th H.
Click to expand...
Omnisphericus is using Tropical Medieval delineation
Tropical Medievgal delineation differs from Hellenistic delineation
Konrads comment is worth studying :smile:
Konrad said:
Honestly, I don't even look at houses all that much.
I find they are to delineation what transits are to time-lords.
In the example above, and using the Babylonian fixed zodiac
and not the Tropical calendrical measurement, this woman's marriage woes are obvious.
Valens states that the Moon invisible is one sign that the native will not marry. Venus' condition is also important.
The native has had some form of relationship as Venus is in the 11th sign and close to culminating
(so she can produce her natural significations),
but she is in the bounds of Saturn and the sign of Mars.
Being in Saturn's bounds can produce cold or odd relationships
(bound lord as physical manifestation of planet) while Mars' poor condition (being Rx and opposed to the Sun)
shows that they will not last (the quality Venus has to work with).
Finally, the Lot of Marriage is in Cancer and ruled by this same invisible Moon
(who is also on the road to nowhere void-in-course), and is managed by Venus.
Venus is in aversion to the Moon, so she can't manage her significations
and therefore we have a build-up of testimonies of a poor love-life, no houses or rulerships needed.
It is probably best to remember that
we are reading a natal chart
and not a horary, from my observation of others
and in my own experience, an over-dependancy on houses
as the initial method of delineation
leads to erroneous conclusions.
They can be useful for fine-tuning the context of the planets and Lots
and can sometimes give some valuable information, but they will never supercede a planet.
Too often have I seen it said (and said myself)
that a planet in the 7th adds a certain quality to the relationships
only to be completely wrong
and then to discover that Venus tells the story beautifully. :)
Click to expand...
 
S

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
Omnisphericus is using Tropical Medieval delineation
Tropical Medievgal delineation differs from Hellenistic delineation
Konrads comment is worth studying :smile:
Click to expand...

well, that would be contradiction with your own sign so that example from omni is bit inccorect :tongue:
or it could be correct IF we using sidereal and saturn would occupied her 7H???
her sun is FALL too by sidereal!!!
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
Omnisphericus is using Tropical Medieval delineation
Tropical Medievgal delineation differs from Hellenistic delineation
Click to expand...
SunConjunctUranus said:
well, that would be contradiction with your own sign so that example from omni is bit inccorect :tongue:
Click to expand...

Not if you notice OMNISPHERICUS is not using Whole Sign Houses :smile:
In fact OMNISPERICUS is using Alcabitius Houses which places MARS in 3rd Alcabitius house
HOWEVER
using Whole Sign Houses
MARS is in 4th House
SunConjunctUranus said:
or it could be correct IF we using sidereal and saturn would occupied her 7H???
 her sun is FALL too by sidereal!!!
Click to expand...
I did recommend studying Konrads comment
because Konrad has some good advice
i.e
Konrad said:
Honestly, I don't even look at houses all that much.
I find they are to delineation what transits are to time-lords.
In the example above, and using the Babylonian fixed zodiac
and not the Tropical calendrical measurement, this woman's marriage woes are obvious.
Valens states that the Moon invisible is one sign that the native will not marry. Venus' condition is also important.
The native has had some form of relationship as Venus is in the 11th sign and close to culminating
(so she can produce her natural significations),
but she is in the bounds of Saturn and the sign of Mars.
Being in Saturn's bounds can produce cold or odd relationships
(bound lord as physical manifestation of planet) while Mars' poor condition (being Rx and opposed to the Sun)
shows that they will not last (the quality Venus has to work with).
Finally, the Lot of Marriage is in Cancer and ruled by this same invisible Moon
(who is also on the road to nowhere void-in-course), and is managed by Venus.
Venus is in aversion to the Moon, so she can't manage her significations
and therefore we have a build-up of testimonies of a poor love-life, no houses or rulerships needed.
It is probably best to remember that
we are reading a natal chart
and not a horary, from my observation of others
and in my own experience, an over-dependancy on houses
as the initial method of delineation
leads to erroneous conclusions.
They can be useful for fine-tuning the context of the planets and Lots
and can sometimes give some valuable information, but they will never supercede a planet.
Too often have I seen it said (and said myself)
that a planet in the 7th adds a certain quality to the relationships
only to be completely wrong
and then to discover that Venus tells the story beautifully. :)
Click to expand...
 
S

SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
Not if you notice OMNISPHERICUS is not using Whole Sign Houses :smile:
In fact OMNISPERICUS is using Alcabitius Houses which places MARS in 3rd Alcabitius house
HOWEVER
using Whole Sign Houses
MARS is in 4th House

I did recommend studying Konrads comment
because Konrad has some good advice
i.e
Click to expand...

Nice!!! It's very clear now.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
SunConjunctUranus said:
Nice!!! It's very clear now.
Click to expand...
A PLANET acts

A HOUSE shows the area of life in which the planet acts :smile:

as well as
how strongly the planet can act

houses-labeled.gif


the quality of the planet's expression
is influenced by the SIGN location of the PLANET
 
Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
Dude, that graphic has no place in the trad forum. Nine is mental exploration? The sixth house as service and health?

Ouch.

JUPITERASC said:
A PLANET acts

A HOUSE shows the area of life in which the planet acts :smile:

as well as
how strongly the planet can act

houses-labeled.gif


the quality of the planet's expression
is influenced by the SIGN location of the PLANET
Click to expand...
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Oddity said:
Dude, that graphic has no place in the trad forum.
Nine is mental exploration?
The sixth house as service and health?
Ouch.
Click to expand...
Those are just two from twelve houses
so
mention any issues with other ten houses on that graphic :smile:
nevertheless good to note that some are awake

by the way
"mental exploration" = aka Mystical Matters, divination and astrology dude
and
"service" = aka slaves aka modern day slavery
as for health
"health" = not necessarily "good health"

i.e.
health issues include sickness
but

hey dude
since
petosiris said:
That graph needs more quadrupeds and slaves.
Click to expand...


and so
the following is clearly apposite for traditional board
despite lack of quadrupeds





astrological-houses-02.jpg
 
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P

petosiris

Banned
Where the f are life, siblings, parents, children, relatives, mysticism, enemies, property, gifts, inheritance and travel??? I think some moderns have forgot what is important in life.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
petosiris said:
Where the f are life, siblings, parents, children, relatives, mysticism, enemies, property, gifts, inheritance and travel???

I think some moderns have forgot what is important in life.
Click to expand...
Hidden presumably
Obviously, with hindsight Self could be living or dead
Home is likely to include relatives, children, siblings et al
but certainly agree need to be stated clearly as in the following :smile:

otherwise causes confusion for beginners






astrological-houses-02.jpg
 
P

petosiris

Banned
I really have no idea why so many people are into one hour consultations for the most banal, new-agey, superfluous, pseudo-psychological mumbo jumbo information instead of ''brevity leading to the truth''. Why talk about ''self-undoing and regeneration'' instead of length of life or eminence? Or of ''home'' instead of parents and children? Or of ''mental exploration'' instead of the magnitude of education, religion and travel? Don't some people understand they sound pathetically shallow, and that instead of giving straightforward, simple foreknowledge that can be understood by anyone (and can be said in less than couple of minutes), they offer no prediction and thus no value to other people?

This is really what separates modern from traditional astrology, not the outers. Some matters have devolved.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
petosiris said:
I really have no idea why so many people are into one hour consultations
for the most banal, new-agey, superfluous, pseudo-psychological mumbo jumbo information
instead of ''brevity leading to the truth''.
Why talk about ''self-undoing and regeneration''
instead of length of life or eminence? Or of ''home''
instead of parents and children?
Or of ''mental exploration''
instead of the magnitude of education, religion and travel?
Don't some people understand they sound pathetically shallow, and
that instead of giving straightforward, simple foreknowledge
that can be understood by anyone, they offer no prediction
and thus no value to other people?
Click to expand...
Obviously, one hour new-agey pseudopsychological
one-size-fits-all banal consultations
assuages modern day craving for glossing over reality
and increasingly seems that
straightforward, simple foreknowledge
considered not politically correct
might upset the delicate
and so
when those factors are combined
with a need for a lucrative passtime
many do not mention for example
as commented on another thread
that
petosiris said:
Leo, Capricorn, Pisces, Aries and Taurus are passionate, Virgo, Sagittarius Capricorn and Taurus are incomplete and cut-off. Scorpio and Capricorn are thievish. Capricorn is disgusting and outrageous. Scorpio and Leo are fierce. These are all according to Hellenistic astrologers.

Whenever the relevant significators are there, the nature of the images contribute in their own way.
Click to expand...
most are seeking reassurance :smile:
rather than straightforward commonsense delineation
petosiris said:
This is really what separates modern from traditional astrology,
not the outers.
Some matters have devolved.
Click to expand...
Certainly the outers storm in a teacup
is a red herring
a distraction
that's clear
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
When a PLANET acts

A HOUSE shows the area of life in which the planet acts

as well as
how strongly a planet can act

and by the way
relevant to the empty houses thread topic
and QUOTING Firmicus Maternus

'.....The house over which a planet rules
serves the purposes of the house in which that planet stands.....' :smile:

https://www.bendykes.com/product-tag/firmicus-maternus/

and
the quality of a planet's expression
is influenced by the SIGN location of a PLANET

 
A

AJ Astrology

Well-known member
petosiris said:
This is really what separates modern from traditional astrology, not the outers. Some matters have devolved.
Click to expand...

Hi petosiris,

I would not disagree.

Traditional is most logical. It represents the most important facets of your life: you, your money, your siblings, your property, your children, your health, other people and conflicts, death, your morals, your career, your friends and honors and your fears.

And it's designed to answer questions about those issues.

That's far superior to some bobble-head telling me how he thinks I should "feel."
 
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