rubyelixir
Well-known member
fensi88 said:
Do transits of the south node count?
I think his natal south node is more important and what transits that. The south node is a point & not and actual planet.
US Presidential race - Who will win?
- Thread starter Mr stellium
- Start date
Do transits of the south node count?
I think his natal south node is more important and what transits that. The south node is a point & not and actual planet.
rubyelixir
Well-known member
wintersprite1 said:I hate to sound cynical, but maybe we should look at the charts of the corporations the make the voting machines...
TK
smarty pants ;o)
Vista
Well-known member
rubyelixir said:
Oh God I get so tired of hearing the rant about McCain and now Sarah. Hum lets compare a women who is a two term City Counsil member, a two term Mayor, and a one term Governer compared to a man who is 3 1/2 year Junior Senator who has done nothing legislatively in house. So instead of a VP with some experience running a city, state, and government, you would prefer to elect a President with NO experience with foreign affairs OR running a city, state, or government? What's really ridiculous here? I would say your argument that's what.
What's more, why is it ok for Barack to leave his two small children but not ok for Sarah? What's the difference as long as there is one parent present? Who are you to judge whether this is right or wrong, because she is a women? Anyway, it doesn't matter because the VP's family lives with them at the Admiral's House as does the President's family with him at the Whitehouse.
PS. What do you know of whether or not Sarah's children are homed schooled? Perhaps her husband does it or they have someone come into the home. What rules say only the mother has to do it.
Theo
Banned
Mr stellium said:
Astrologically, I have a few issues with your assessment of the election. According to my calculations of the transits, and the charts of the two natives, it appears that Barack Obama will become the next president of the united States.
In no place, and I mean no place, does it show even slightly that John McCain will win the election. I've calculated every which way, and all transits confirm that Obama and Joe Biden will become the next American president and vice-president.
All charts for such mundane events covering nations MUST be written for sunrise of the day, week, or month. Run cycle charts based on sunrise. This gives the entire view of events.
In a cycle run in the U.S., Leo would be on the MC. the election may "appear" to be much closer than reported, however, by the end of the day, Obama and Biden will be elected to office by massive landslides in many American states. The influence of McCain's VP-choice Sarah Palin will be minimal at best, considering her own transits, and those of McCain as well. World transits are already passing them both by... This election is 'historic' in many ways, especially concerning the world transits. We are about to enter a very unique time in history and the outer planets confirm this through my calculations.
If the election had been held in 2007, it would have been McCain and Clinton against one another, according to the position of Jupiter in 2007, which was a a mutable year. This year, 2008, is a "cardinal" year, and this greatly favors Obama, who is also about to have his Jupiter Return in late Capricorn/early Aquarius going into the election, and then post-election towards the January 2009 inauguration. My calculations astrologically clearly show that Barack Obama will become the next president.
One of the major shortcomings John McCain has is the fact that his Jupiter in Sagittarius is one-year past his return, and many candidates for president with Jupiter in SAG have not made it to the presidency. Moreover, McCain's Jupiter is square not only to his own Saturn position in Pisces, but also to his Neptune in Virgo ~ which is a major reason for him being ill-tempered.
McCain's Jupiter-Saturn-Neptune T-square is activated by transiting Saturn and Uranus along the Virgo/Pisces axis. His campaign is stressed, and unfocused, and out of step via his party's links to the current administration.
Saturn and Uranus do not "personally" represent McCain or Obama. These are outer planets, and they represent a much wider influence that is not personality driven. Astrologers and students of astrology must be careful when assigning individual personality labels to the superior planets. The outer planets play a major role covering many nations and populations.
Saturn represents the status quo, and Uranus represents change, these are more or less the "themes" of this presidential election, the environment and tone of the times in the U.S. (and the world) is experiencing at present. Saturn and Uranus are transiting along the mutable earth/water axis and looking for a "release" as mutable signs often do.
People are pent up with very strong feelings about the general condition of the country, their own personal problems related to the country, and they blame the status quo, as represented by Saturn's position, for the problems. Millions are crossing party lines to vote against the status quo. This reflects a very unique set of unfavorable consequences for the party now in power, the Republicans and via the world transits, gives Obama & Biden many advantages towards the coming November election.
This affects McCain more due to the strength building of the mutable Saturn-Uranus opposition, which is exact on election day and serves as a "focal point" of release in the 5-11 Houses set for Washington DC. This releases on McCain negatively via his natal mutable T-square.
Jupiter transiting Capricorn is moderating this via earth trine to Saturn, and sextile to Uranus, and the figure is of a balance required to elect a group of people who represent change, but who also appeals to the common person. Obama does this according to his transits, and with his natal positions of Jupiter and Saturn in Capricorn, he easily has the transits to win the election. I have forecasted that he will win.
Transiting Jupiter is a playmaker here, and has favorable aspects to Saturn in Virgo (trine) and Uranus (sextile) on Election Day 2008. Again, this shows millions of people crossing party lines to vote, along with record turnout. Transits confirm that the winner is Brack Obama, and the Democrats overall in other elections that day.
Generally, the Saturn-Uranus opposition is seeking an outlet to express pent up feelings about the conditions and direction of the country. This Saturn-Uranus opposition is the first of several from late 2008 into mid 2011. If one looks past this coming November, one can easily see that the Saturn-Uranus opposition and its influences continue long after the election.
This also confirms which candidate will win the election. The opposition reflects loud calls for major reform in government, and society past 2008 and into the start of the coming next decade. Obama's own transits clearly show that he continues to be powerfully highlighted through 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and beyond. McCain's own cycle transits show a fading off through these years.
The current Saturn-Uranus buildup clearly reflects the end of an age and the beginning of a new era despite the present favoring of one candidate over another. Transits clearly show that a new generation is coming into power, the children born in the 1960s. This again confirms Obama rise to power.
This supercedes ALL personal opinions, and questions relating to either Obama's ethnicity (African-American) and even questions of experience, which really are media-placed lables, as no one can be experienced enough for the office of president for the first time. It is a very unique job with no prior experience required. One only has to be a natve American and over the age of 35 to be qualified to run for president.
The sunrise transits leading up to the early November election clearly indicate that the American public is ready for, and seeking "change." Saturn opposing Uranus reflects this feeling. Many Americans will vote with "change" in mind and the Republicans are seen as the status quo (Saturn) with Uranus playing the role of "change" by an "unexpected" (Uranus) leader (Obama.)
All the transits of note, both short-term, and long-range confirms that Barack Obama will become the next president of the United States. This is not my personal opinion, but my expertise in reading transits, and the positions covering the entire country, as well as the candidates' own natal and progressed positions.
It's going to be a very exciting time for the world according to the world transits heading into the decade of the 2010s. Everything is about to change, with the year 2010 becoming a MAJOR year of transitions and reforms kicking off what is going to be a very, very active decade just ahead.
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Theo I think that you did a great job but I have to choose other. Saturn rep "older person." When I did a chart at 7am to 7pm, it shows Saturn in 10H in the morn and 4H in the evening. Both angular H. I have to swing it to McCain. Saturn to me has served as a "big switch" in events. McCain is a Virgo and it resides currently there. I think on the day of election it will be 18 degree Virgo. But that is from my memory. Saturn to me as I have studied it is both blessing and curse. When you see the Presidents well... same goes there. V/r LionKing:sunny:
rubyelixir
Well-known member
Vista said:
I feel sorry for you Vista. You probably think Bush is a good president & he has experience ;o). No rules say only the Mother has to do it but I am a mother with only 1 special needs kid & for me he comes first, and it is alot of work. Let alone 5 kids. Obama has only 2 children of school age. She has said that she is pro-home schooling , if so then she is most likely against working towards improving our schools. Thats a very important issue for me. I don't know about you but I need to work & apparently so does she but is she so wealthy that her husband doesn't? with 5 kids????? & Even if her husband was there full time 5 kids is huge responsibility, particularly one with Down Syndrome. She touts herself as a "Hockey Mom" sounds hypocritical to me. Either she has full time help or she's got a clone(s). Anyway, I can't relate & there is no way I would feel at all represented or protected by her. Well I guess I know where she'll be when McCain keels over & the phone rings.....Hockey Anyone?
As far as what "right I have to judge" , as a VOTER that is precisely MY RIGHT. Its called Democracy but some people in this country have misunderstood what that means.
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rubyelixir
Well-known member
LionKing said:
I thought McCain is a Leo
rubyelixir
Well-known member
I have a crush on Theo ;o)
after studying, briefly, classical astrology with Lee Lehman & Rob Zoller, I apreciate your in depth interpretation without all the midevel details , well done Theo.
after studying, briefly, classical astrology with Lee Lehman & Rob Zoller, I apreciate your in depth interpretation without all the midevel details , well done Theo.
Theo
Banned
LionKing said:
That depends on the aspects to the "big switch" as you say. However, try looking at transits as a whole, and remember to keep looking at transits past the day in question. Often, some who study astrology tend to personalize it too much without really seeing the much larger view.
I have reviewed the 2008 elections since 2000, and knew eight years ago that this election would be special, and it is. However, I do not see what you see in McCain's transits, and in my view, there is no way he will win the White House, not with these transits.
Saturn's transits reflect much of what has already happened with the current Republican party, and we must view Saturn's transits through Leo, Cancer, and Gemini to really gain insights into what is happening now.
Moreover, I do not place too high a value on planets on the MC. What really controls many charts is the IC, which contains 50% of the charts' power.
On election day, the IC in the sunrise chart is Aquarius, containing the Moon, the Vertex, Dragon's Head, Chiron, and Neptune. The transiting Moon at 3-AQR is on the IC cusp, and this Aquarius Moon is in an exact trine to Obama's natal Moon. In addition, Obama's Jupiter is nearby, in conjunction with the transiting Aquarius Moon. A strong Jupiter-Uranus sextile covers the area from the Third, Fourth to Fifth House. The power is here, in the Fourth House, and clearly reflects the winner of the election ~ Barack Obama.
BobZemco
Well-known member
Vista said:
The evidence is scant, but I believe she left the US to go to Indonesia to do fieldwork over the summer, and why not? That's what anthropologists, archaeologists and others do in the summer. I had a chance to leave the US when I was 18, and I did not know until a few months ago that had I done so, I would have lost my US citizenship (and I got an 'A' in Civics in high school).
The laws have since changed, but they are not retroactive and would not have applied to me, or to Obama's mother.
My father never had a birth certificate until he went into the air force, because he and his brothers and sisters were all born at home. Mid-wives often forgot to register births. It wasn't that important. Just because people today need birth certificates and social security numbers now to exist in the world of the Big Machine doesn't mean it was always so. I didn't get my social security card until I was a freshman in high school, and I only did so to get a work permit.
Based on what little evidence exists, it appears he was born in Indonesia, and his mother returned from her field work and registered his birth, which was a normal practice and no one would have thought anything of it at the time.
His half-sister lives in Indonesia, and I find it odd that she's ignored by everyone, especially the media, probably because she may have met Mr. Soreto during her field work the first time she was there.
BobZemco
Well-known member
Theo said:
That isn't true. In fact, it's an astrological failure since such charts failed to predict 9-11, or the invasion of Afghanistan, or Iraq, or the first invasion of Iraq, or any of the last several elections, or Nixon's resignation, or Pearl Harbor or anything else in history, not only for the US but for other countries, too.
The list of astrologers who crashed and burned in the 2000 Election is long and distinguished, and it's amazing that they had the gall to show their faces for the 2004 Election, where they crashed and burned again.
Given that they've missed the boat every time, not only are their techniques wrong, they're also using what is very obviously the wrong natal chart for the US, and will continue to do so, so long as they fail or refuse to give up their ethnocentric romantic fantasies about the birth of the US.
Faith in the astrological "gurus" is both misguided and misplaced, but I suppose it's true that even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
Theo
Banned
????
Of course it is true. The most BASIC technique for casting for anything is a SUNRISE chart. This is one of the oldest and most established princips of classical astrology.
Astrological forecasting sometimes includes not making a forecast to protect others in the future. This is part of the craft for the most serious professional astrologers with mundane experience. I've not made forecasts for some events because of the rule to protect the future, and individuals from attack until time arrives for some knowledge to be known. Or, made them to a select few. Nostradamus practiced this princip for very good reasons, because there are some out there who play with astrology as if it is a game, and it is far from that.
Astrology has a very deep and rich history, and for you to make comments like those above really don't do your knowledge of the science much justice at all.
Sorry Theo, but I had to delete some comments of yours which became rather personal. In a discussion like this, such remarks are not really conductive and can, will or could create resentment which we want to avoid in this Forum.
With respect,
Starlink
BobZemco said:
Of course it is true. The most BASIC technique for casting for anything is a SUNRISE chart. This is one of the oldest and most established princips of classical astrology.
Astrological forecasting sometimes includes not making a forecast to protect others in the future. This is part of the craft for the most serious professional astrologers with mundane experience. I've not made forecasts for some events because of the rule to protect the future, and individuals from attack until time arrives for some knowledge to be known. Or, made them to a select few. Nostradamus practiced this princip for very good reasons, because there are some out there who play with astrology as if it is a game, and it is far from that.
Astrology has a very deep and rich history, and for you to make comments like those above really don't do your knowledge of the science much justice at all.
Sorry Theo, but I had to delete some comments of yours which became rather personal. In a discussion like this, such remarks are not really conductive and can, will or could create resentment which we want to avoid in this Forum.
With respect,
Starlink
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Mr stellium
Well-known member
Having previously discussed the electional chart for the November 4th election, I will now give my interpretation of the transits if both candidates from the timeframe October 30th to November 9th. With reference to Theo's posts I find it very hard to believe that Obama has positive transits around election time.(Aspects discussed are those within 1 degree of being exact and also the relationship of the Saturn/Uranus opposition to each candidates natal chart. R= radical or natal, T= transiting)
John McCain:
> The Saturn/Uranus opposition (19 Virgo/Pisces) will lie across McCains Natal Neptune conjunction Venus - opposition Saturn. T Uranus will be within 1 deg of his Saturn, and T Saturn will be on the Neptune/Venus midpoint. Significantly, T Jupiter trines the Virgo planets and sextiles the Pisces planets. This Saturn/Uranus opposition dynamic, with Jupiter harmoniously involved, fits well into McCains chart (much better than Obama's), suggesting that he will represent the 'change'. Also on November 2nd this dynamic in his chart will be energized as T Mars trines R Saturn.
> McCains R Jupiter is at 15 Sag, Progressed Jupiter is at 25 Sag. Now, on October 31st T Venus will conjunct his R Jupiter and on November 9th it will conjunct his progressed Jupiter. - so this is an extremely lucky and and fortunate period as T venus moves from R Jupiter to progressed Jupiter. (in a natal chart a Jupiter/Venus conjunction is known as the aspect of a winner).
Barack Obama:
> None of the outer planets come within a degree of exact aspects during this timeframe, however the Saturn/Uranus opposition will occur 3 degrees from Obama's natal Mars. It would be clutching at straws to find a positive interpretation of T Saturn conjunction R Mars (The aspect will come within a degree of being exact in early January 2009, before Saturn turns retrograde again), especially when opposed by T Uranus, so this is a thoroughly negative transit, indicative of failure (Think of Saturn coming along to Obama's Mars which is enthusiastically shouting "yes we can", and shouting "No you cannot"). The Uranus opposition suggests Obama's dejected supporters may become rebellious after his defeat. Also, transiting Mars will square Obama's Uranus on November 9th, another negative indicator of the reaction of him and his supporters.
Finally, heres some links you guys might find interesting:
> This article analyses the inauguration chart. Although the author doesnt conclude who will most likely win, it does suggest McCain: http://starsoverwashington.blogspot.com/2007/10/inauguration-jan-20-2009.html
> This article explains using a new and unique astrological theory, why John McCain will win: http://www.kerrytheory.info/en/barack-obama-election-day.pdf
> This article, by the same author gives her interpretation of the anticipated outcome of each Presidency, should either man be elected: http://www.kerrytheory.info/en/newsletter_v2_e13.pdf
> And finally for weeping Obama supporters, this article predicts that he will win: http://www.neptunecafe.com/obama.html
John McCain:
> The Saturn/Uranus opposition (19 Virgo/Pisces) will lie across McCains Natal Neptune conjunction Venus - opposition Saturn. T Uranus will be within 1 deg of his Saturn, and T Saturn will be on the Neptune/Venus midpoint. Significantly, T Jupiter trines the Virgo planets and sextiles the Pisces planets. This Saturn/Uranus opposition dynamic, with Jupiter harmoniously involved, fits well into McCains chart (much better than Obama's), suggesting that he will represent the 'change'. Also on November 2nd this dynamic in his chart will be energized as T Mars trines R Saturn.
> McCains R Jupiter is at 15 Sag, Progressed Jupiter is at 25 Sag. Now, on October 31st T Venus will conjunct his R Jupiter and on November 9th it will conjunct his progressed Jupiter. - so this is an extremely lucky and and fortunate period as T venus moves from R Jupiter to progressed Jupiter. (in a natal chart a Jupiter/Venus conjunction is known as the aspect of a winner).
Barack Obama:
> None of the outer planets come within a degree of exact aspects during this timeframe, however the Saturn/Uranus opposition will occur 3 degrees from Obama's natal Mars. It would be clutching at straws to find a positive interpretation of T Saturn conjunction R Mars (The aspect will come within a degree of being exact in early January 2009, before Saturn turns retrograde again), especially when opposed by T Uranus, so this is a thoroughly negative transit, indicative of failure (Think of Saturn coming along to Obama's Mars which is enthusiastically shouting "yes we can", and shouting "No you cannot"). The Uranus opposition suggests Obama's dejected supporters may become rebellious after his defeat. Also, transiting Mars will square Obama's Uranus on November 9th, another negative indicator of the reaction of him and his supporters.
Finally, heres some links you guys might find interesting:
> This article analyses the inauguration chart. Although the author doesnt conclude who will most likely win, it does suggest McCain: http://starsoverwashington.blogspot.com/2007/10/inauguration-jan-20-2009.html
> This article explains using a new and unique astrological theory, why John McCain will win: http://www.kerrytheory.info/en/barack-obama-election-day.pdf
> This article, by the same author gives her interpretation of the anticipated outcome of each Presidency, should either man be elected: http://www.kerrytheory.info/en/newsletter_v2_e13.pdf
> And finally for weeping Obama supporters, this article predicts that he will win: http://www.neptunecafe.com/obama.html
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Theo
Banned
Mr stellium said:
Frankly, I still do not see how your reading of those transits reference here says that McCain will win the presidency. It obviously is not there. Perhaps you should take a much closer look at McCain's relocated natal and progressed transits, as well as Obama's relocated natal and progressed aspects ~ and especially the cycle transits leading up to the General Election and afterwards.
You might want also locate directional transits of the candidates' charts to the White House. View the transits as a whole, as you would when forecasting the weather astrologically. Clearly, and I mean clearly, Barack Obama is the one who wins the presidency.
starlink
Well-known member
Vista, all things considered, Obama has been a senator for 2 years which does give quite a bit of experience regarding everything happening in the USA, whilst Palin,who undoubtly is very smart, only was a governor . I actually also have to agree with what Ruby wrote about her being a mother with a young baby still, and not a normal one but a baby with Down syndrom. These children need loads of love and care and she would probably not be home anymore for the greater part of the time. That would bother me a bit.
She must have, otherwise you cannot have a full time job.
rubyelixir
Well-known member
starlink said:
And now they just announced that her 17 year old daughter is 5 months pregnant (could she have gotten pregnant at 16?????) I mean , obviously her child rearing skills are questionable & she is NOT a hands on Mom there is NO WAY. This is looking more & more like a Lifetime Channel made for TV movie.
Britney Spear's Mom, a private citizen mind you, has gotten so much flack over Jamie Lynn having her baby at 17 but its fine for the vice president of our country to be a sucky Mom????? what kind of values does she have???? NOT MINE.
I think people (The unconscious ones) are like lemmings & if they decided that they are republican they do not challenge any of their representation. I take my responsibility as a voter very seriously. I also see astrologically the overwhelming power of Pluto on the horizon of Capricorn. Evolution is inevititable. This woman & the republican party represent a outdated, 1940's Good Ol White Boy version of america that is no longer valid.(good grief picking a former beauty Queen as your wife & as a running Mate??? This is the typical tract of a Narcissist, Who does he think he is? Hugh Hefner?! I guess looks do count for everything!) If you are the least bit in tune with the cosmos you will see that if we continue with this type of leadership we will be in for some very heavy plutonian rath.
rubyelixir
Well-known member
McCain was born in PanamaBobZemco said: