Hi all,
I just thought I'd post these two interpretations of the last presidential debate between McCain and Obama. Can't wait to see how it all pans out later today. The first interpretation is from Astro-Pol (btw they just posted McCain's newly found birth time after the debate post)
http://astro-pol.blogspot.com/
...
As the economy continues to unwind, the final presidential debate is the candidates' last chance to sway a large audience. By looking at the planetary patterns, we can see what’s in store. Unlike the last two debates, the Moon is active. It is in mid-Taurus (9̊), making connections with Jupiter and Saturn. Each of these planets is in an Earth sign, and they form a grand trine. This is a stable and beneficial pattern. This suggests that the public (the Moon) is engaged and concerned about material things — the economy springs to mind, perhaps?
It’s the Economy, Stupid.
Viewers are desperate to hear about what the candidates’ will do about the economy. They want to know how much each candidate knows and will vote for the one who will reassure them the most convincingly. The chart screams out the importance of this issue, and it implies that the candidates will succeed in meeting their needs.
In this triangular configuration, the Moon represents the public, Saturn McCain (due to age, conservatism, and contacts to his chart), and Jupiter Obama (age and progressiveness). Because of the difficult contacts triggered in McCain’s chart, he has been inconsistent in describing a clear policy on the economy, and this will continue to be the case on Wednesday evening. He will make simple blustery pronouncements that sound like he has yet to convince himself.
Obama, on the other hand, will sound more self-assured and calm. However, his chart does not particularly connect with the Jupiter of the debate chart. Consequently, he may not be able to completely set aside people’s concerns with the resounding clarity that Jupiter can represent.
What Obama Will Do
To see what Obama will do, we have to consider the planetary icing to the cake. Connected to the Moon-Saturn-Jupiter grand trine is a very strong Mars in Scorpio. It is the capstone of a new pattern, called a kite. Mars occupies the “top” of the kite and so is the focal point. This is opposite the Moon, and it tells us that the public is angry and wants Something Done. Focal planet Mars is directly on Obama’s Neptune. This suggests that the pressure is most on him. People are looking for answers, and they’re pinning their hopes on him. For the public, it may be as if John McCain is a sideshow that is taking time away from Obama.
This configuration could also indicate a debate where there is more of an attack mentality. However, the main indicator of this, Moon opposing Mars, happens earlier in the day so its energy is dissipating. I think this symbolically indicates the people at McCain rallies who have been on the attack toward Obama; it suggests that this phenomenon might also be dissipating. Will McCain attack Obama directly? It is possible. His campaign may be preparing him to do so, but whether McCain will do it is another thing. McCain’s sense of decency does not square with this type of approach.
Obama has had to learn to deal with Neptune — he has worked long and hard on it over his lifetime. (See my post on his Sun-Neptune contact, “Obama, McCain, and the Great-Man Potential”.) Sun-Neptune is a sticky wicket. It can inspire or it can be vague or confusing. His book, Audacity of Hope, is about Sun-Neptune. Audacity = Sun; Hope = Neptune
It is clear to me that Obama has learned to deal very well with his Sun-Neptune, or he would not be where he is. He has learned to grind and grind the grist-mill of consciousness until he reaches the kernel of truth, but it is an art not a science and one he will be honing all his life. During the final debate, he may be the inspired and idealistic speaker that he can be. Or he could be still working on inner clarity and not shine out the way the audience wants him to. In a debate format, he doesn’t have the opportunity to build passion the way he does in a prepared speech. But if he has inner clarity, he will find a way to speak truthfully, confidently, and inspiringly. The audience will feel it. If he is not there yet, his statements will lack the punch that this clarity gives.
The state of the economy is an evolving situation. It is not possible to be truthful and confident that one has all the answers in this ever-changing scenario. So each candidate must tread the line between confident proclamations and more truthful vagueness if they are to convince the public.
Mercury and the Moderator
Mercury has been retrograde (traveling backward through the zodiac from our perspective) for the previous three debates. It returns to forward motion at 4:06 PM (Eastern Time) before the debate, but it is still barely moving. When a planet is stationary, it bathes us in its energy. We will be very aware of Mercurial processes: Are the candidates on message? What questions are being asked? Can we have some answers, please?
During the Mercury retrograde, a comment I heard frequently was that the questions were boring. Now that Mercury is moving forward, Bob Schieffer could be more direct as well with some direct questions and burning follow-ups. However, Mercury is in the placating sign of Libra and not well connected to the chart, so he may be weak on that score.
Who’s Going to Win the Debate?
There will be a lot of excitement about the debate, and the candidates are well aware of what the public wants to hear about. They will try to work in their economic message as much as possible. In some ways, the debate chart favors McCain. His connections to it suggest that he will finally give a good debate performance with clearer messages than before. However, he continues to have the same triggers that brought out his anger, avoidance of the questions, and lack of attunement to the problems we face. These contacts also suggest that McCain is going to try to throw game-changer comments, but they will not be successful.
Obama’s chart contacts are less problematic and suggest that he will be the winner, and the public will see it that way. He has Midheaven contacts both to his birth chart and in the debate chart. Midheaven connections put the person on top.
So, this debate is not going to be a game-changer, but it may convince many undecided voters to vote for Obama. He'll get a bump after the debate, and then his numbers will settle into a new, slightly higher margin over McCain. This could be a decisive debate for some people in swing states - enough to make the electoral map a little bluer.
This second interpretation is from starlight news
http://starlightnews.com/wordpress/
...
With their poll numbers plummeting in the face of an economic meltdown and several poor debate performances, the McCain/Palin ticket has brazenly stepped into the rabid cesspool of political demagoguery. For the last few weeks, we have heard the Republican contenders cast Obama as a domestic terrorist and a dangerous, anti-American radical. We have seen them douse gasoline on the twin flames of hatred and paranoia at their increasingly combustible and angry rallies. Goaded on by the wild emotions he has summoned, McCain has even promised to confront Obama with these blatantly false charges at the next debate.
While this ugly display of ambition-first-country-last has created an increasingly misinformed and angry mob at political events, it has also engendered a wave of harsh criticism, including from many Republican leaders. To quash some of this reaction, McCain began to correct some of his supporters’ wildest and most nefarious claims about Obama on Friday, all the while looking like he was being forced to suck on a lemon. Meanwhile, his vicious, dishonest ads continue to play in the battleground states, and co-conspirator Palin defends the attacks as legitimate, barely backing down from the sleeze.
It is in the midst of this unfolding, high-stakes drama that the last debate between John McCain and Barack Obama will take place. On October 15, the two will engage face to face, mano a mano, at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York. Recently, a new birth time of 6:25 PM has surfaced for John McCain, which, if anything, makes matters worse for him. I will include the new data in this forecast, but identify it as such.
In his natal chart, John McCain’s very volatile, impulsive, and easily angered temperament is described by a Mars (12Leo34) square to Uranus (9Taurus30). The new birth time brings the Moon (2 Aquarius25) into this configuration, creating a wide T-square, and suggesting an even greater irritability and combustibility. It is this aspect that will be under a great deal of pressure during and after the debate, suggesting McCain will be very agitated, angry, and unhappy. The transiting Moon (9Taurus30) will be exactly conjunct his natal Uranus at the beginning of the debate, suggesting a great deal of jumpiness in the first few minutes, perhaps due to an upsetting or surprising question right off the bat or perhaps due to an event prior to the debate that still has him rattled. The Moon will then move toward a square to his Mars (12Leo) through the course of the evening and into the very early hours of the morning. Anger and irritability are the likely result.
Of greater consequence, is the transit of Mars (8Scorpio), especially on October 16 and 17. Although this planet will be not quite within a one-degree orb of opposition to natal Uranus (9Taurus30) during the debate, it is likely to nonetheless signal the beginning of a two-day period of extreme agitation, impatience, and anger. In addition, there are two further aspects that are specific to the 6:25 PM chart that suggest a very trying, depressing time for McCain that began in late September and continues to be very potent through October 19, slowly diminishing over the week or so thereafter. The first is the transit of Saturn sesquiquadrate his natal Moon (2Aquarius25) from October 11 through October 19, and the second is converse Moon square converse Saturn (22Pisces20) beginning around September 21 and peaking on October 18. All of this points to another poor debate performance and upset, aggression, anger, and depression as a result.
While McCain seems to be at some kind of nadir for the mid-October debate, Obama will be at his zenith. His progressed Venus will be, to the minute, conjunct his natal Node (27Leo18) for the debate, triggered by the transit of Venus (27 Scorpio) during and after the actual event through the following morning. Transiting Venus will also square his progressed Venus/progressed Uranus (28Leo) conjunction, and then conjunct his Midheaven (28Scorpio53) through October 16th. In the face of McCain’s crankiness, Obama will once again demonstrate calmness and strength, with an extraordinarily appealing and compelling quality that pervades his presence.
There is, however, some stress that develops for Obama from around October 16 through October 25, due to Saturn’s transit semisquare his Mercury (2Leo20) and quincunx his Ascendant (18Aquarius03). Perhaps, it is just the weightiness of the times adding to the sobriety and thoughtfulness (Saturn) of his demeanor. But it seems likely he may lose some of his sparkle during this period and become more fatigued and off his game. A cold or laryngitis is possible that will encumber him in some way. Alternately, the increasingly vituperative attacks from the Hate Talk Express may begin to do some damage. It may be that his wide lead shrinks a bit during these ten days. Nonetheless, it seems likely that the last debate will be quite memorable and may be what finally seals this election, in spite of the background of sulphurous fulminations exuding from the Dark Side.
I just thought I'd post these two interpretations of the last presidential debate between McCain and Obama. Can't wait to see how it all pans out later today. The first interpretation is from Astro-Pol (btw they just posted McCain's newly found birth time after the debate post)
http://astro-pol.blogspot.com/
...
As the economy continues to unwind, the final presidential debate is the candidates' last chance to sway a large audience. By looking at the planetary patterns, we can see what’s in store. Unlike the last two debates, the Moon is active. It is in mid-Taurus (9̊), making connections with Jupiter and Saturn. Each of these planets is in an Earth sign, and they form a grand trine. This is a stable and beneficial pattern. This suggests that the public (the Moon) is engaged and concerned about material things — the economy springs to mind, perhaps?
It’s the Economy, Stupid.
Viewers are desperate to hear about what the candidates’ will do about the economy. They want to know how much each candidate knows and will vote for the one who will reassure them the most convincingly. The chart screams out the importance of this issue, and it implies that the candidates will succeed in meeting their needs.
In this triangular configuration, the Moon represents the public, Saturn McCain (due to age, conservatism, and contacts to his chart), and Jupiter Obama (age and progressiveness). Because of the difficult contacts triggered in McCain’s chart, he has been inconsistent in describing a clear policy on the economy, and this will continue to be the case on Wednesday evening. He will make simple blustery pronouncements that sound like he has yet to convince himself.
Obama, on the other hand, will sound more self-assured and calm. However, his chart does not particularly connect with the Jupiter of the debate chart. Consequently, he may not be able to completely set aside people’s concerns with the resounding clarity that Jupiter can represent.
What Obama Will Do
To see what Obama will do, we have to consider the planetary icing to the cake. Connected to the Moon-Saturn-Jupiter grand trine is a very strong Mars in Scorpio. It is the capstone of a new pattern, called a kite. Mars occupies the “top” of the kite and so is the focal point. This is opposite the Moon, and it tells us that the public is angry and wants Something Done. Focal planet Mars is directly on Obama’s Neptune. This suggests that the pressure is most on him. People are looking for answers, and they’re pinning their hopes on him. For the public, it may be as if John McCain is a sideshow that is taking time away from Obama.
This configuration could also indicate a debate where there is more of an attack mentality. However, the main indicator of this, Moon opposing Mars, happens earlier in the day so its energy is dissipating. I think this symbolically indicates the people at McCain rallies who have been on the attack toward Obama; it suggests that this phenomenon might also be dissipating. Will McCain attack Obama directly? It is possible. His campaign may be preparing him to do so, but whether McCain will do it is another thing. McCain’s sense of decency does not square with this type of approach.
Obama has had to learn to deal with Neptune — he has worked long and hard on it over his lifetime. (See my post on his Sun-Neptune contact, “Obama, McCain, and the Great-Man Potential”.) Sun-Neptune is a sticky wicket. It can inspire or it can be vague or confusing. His book, Audacity of Hope, is about Sun-Neptune. Audacity = Sun; Hope = Neptune
It is clear to me that Obama has learned to deal very well with his Sun-Neptune, or he would not be where he is. He has learned to grind and grind the grist-mill of consciousness until he reaches the kernel of truth, but it is an art not a science and one he will be honing all his life. During the final debate, he may be the inspired and idealistic speaker that he can be. Or he could be still working on inner clarity and not shine out the way the audience wants him to. In a debate format, he doesn’t have the opportunity to build passion the way he does in a prepared speech. But if he has inner clarity, he will find a way to speak truthfully, confidently, and inspiringly. The audience will feel it. If he is not there yet, his statements will lack the punch that this clarity gives.
The state of the economy is an evolving situation. It is not possible to be truthful and confident that one has all the answers in this ever-changing scenario. So each candidate must tread the line between confident proclamations and more truthful vagueness if they are to convince the public.
Mercury and the Moderator
Mercury has been retrograde (traveling backward through the zodiac from our perspective) for the previous three debates. It returns to forward motion at 4:06 PM (Eastern Time) before the debate, but it is still barely moving. When a planet is stationary, it bathes us in its energy. We will be very aware of Mercurial processes: Are the candidates on message? What questions are being asked? Can we have some answers, please?
During the Mercury retrograde, a comment I heard frequently was that the questions were boring. Now that Mercury is moving forward, Bob Schieffer could be more direct as well with some direct questions and burning follow-ups. However, Mercury is in the placating sign of Libra and not well connected to the chart, so he may be weak on that score.
Who’s Going to Win the Debate?
There will be a lot of excitement about the debate, and the candidates are well aware of what the public wants to hear about. They will try to work in their economic message as much as possible. In some ways, the debate chart favors McCain. His connections to it suggest that he will finally give a good debate performance with clearer messages than before. However, he continues to have the same triggers that brought out his anger, avoidance of the questions, and lack of attunement to the problems we face. These contacts also suggest that McCain is going to try to throw game-changer comments, but they will not be successful.
Obama’s chart contacts are less problematic and suggest that he will be the winner, and the public will see it that way. He has Midheaven contacts both to his birth chart and in the debate chart. Midheaven connections put the person on top.
So, this debate is not going to be a game-changer, but it may convince many undecided voters to vote for Obama. He'll get a bump after the debate, and then his numbers will settle into a new, slightly higher margin over McCain. This could be a decisive debate for some people in swing states - enough to make the electoral map a little bluer.
This second interpretation is from starlight news
http://starlightnews.com/wordpress/
...
With their poll numbers plummeting in the face of an economic meltdown and several poor debate performances, the McCain/Palin ticket has brazenly stepped into the rabid cesspool of political demagoguery. For the last few weeks, we have heard the Republican contenders cast Obama as a domestic terrorist and a dangerous, anti-American radical. We have seen them douse gasoline on the twin flames of hatred and paranoia at their increasingly combustible and angry rallies. Goaded on by the wild emotions he has summoned, McCain has even promised to confront Obama with these blatantly false charges at the next debate.
While this ugly display of ambition-first-country-last has created an increasingly misinformed and angry mob at political events, it has also engendered a wave of harsh criticism, including from many Republican leaders. To quash some of this reaction, McCain began to correct some of his supporters’ wildest and most nefarious claims about Obama on Friday, all the while looking like he was being forced to suck on a lemon. Meanwhile, his vicious, dishonest ads continue to play in the battleground states, and co-conspirator Palin defends the attacks as legitimate, barely backing down from the sleeze.
It is in the midst of this unfolding, high-stakes drama that the last debate between John McCain and Barack Obama will take place. On October 15, the two will engage face to face, mano a mano, at Hofstra University in Hempstead, New York. Recently, a new birth time of 6:25 PM has surfaced for John McCain, which, if anything, makes matters worse for him. I will include the new data in this forecast, but identify it as such.
In his natal chart, John McCain’s very volatile, impulsive, and easily angered temperament is described by a Mars (12Leo34) square to Uranus (9Taurus30). The new birth time brings the Moon (2 Aquarius25) into this configuration, creating a wide T-square, and suggesting an even greater irritability and combustibility. It is this aspect that will be under a great deal of pressure during and after the debate, suggesting McCain will be very agitated, angry, and unhappy. The transiting Moon (9Taurus30) will be exactly conjunct his natal Uranus at the beginning of the debate, suggesting a great deal of jumpiness in the first few minutes, perhaps due to an upsetting or surprising question right off the bat or perhaps due to an event prior to the debate that still has him rattled. The Moon will then move toward a square to his Mars (12Leo) through the course of the evening and into the very early hours of the morning. Anger and irritability are the likely result.
Of greater consequence, is the transit of Mars (8Scorpio), especially on October 16 and 17. Although this planet will be not quite within a one-degree orb of opposition to natal Uranus (9Taurus30) during the debate, it is likely to nonetheless signal the beginning of a two-day period of extreme agitation, impatience, and anger. In addition, there are two further aspects that are specific to the 6:25 PM chart that suggest a very trying, depressing time for McCain that began in late September and continues to be very potent through October 19, slowly diminishing over the week or so thereafter. The first is the transit of Saturn sesquiquadrate his natal Moon (2Aquarius25) from October 11 through October 19, and the second is converse Moon square converse Saturn (22Pisces20) beginning around September 21 and peaking on October 18. All of this points to another poor debate performance and upset, aggression, anger, and depression as a result.
While McCain seems to be at some kind of nadir for the mid-October debate, Obama will be at his zenith. His progressed Venus will be, to the minute, conjunct his natal Node (27Leo18) for the debate, triggered by the transit of Venus (27 Scorpio) during and after the actual event through the following morning. Transiting Venus will also square his progressed Venus/progressed Uranus (28Leo) conjunction, and then conjunct his Midheaven (28Scorpio53) through October 16th. In the face of McCain’s crankiness, Obama will once again demonstrate calmness and strength, with an extraordinarily appealing and compelling quality that pervades his presence.
There is, however, some stress that develops for Obama from around October 16 through October 25, due to Saturn’s transit semisquare his Mercury (2Leo20) and quincunx his Ascendant (18Aquarius03). Perhaps, it is just the weightiness of the times adding to the sobriety and thoughtfulness (Saturn) of his demeanor. But it seems likely he may lose some of his sparkle during this period and become more fatigued and off his game. A cold or laryngitis is possible that will encumber him in some way. Alternately, the increasingly vituperative attacks from the Hate Talk Express may begin to do some damage. It may be that his wide lead shrinks a bit during these ten days. Nonetheless, it seems likely that the last debate will be quite memorable and may be what finally seals this election, in spite of the background of sulphurous fulminations exuding from the Dark Side.
