I Dont Believe In This

"Progressed Charts"...i dont know who made them up and

who thought of the idea...yeah your thinking might change as you get older but

thats only cause your learning life lessons. Some people dont even understand

what im saying cause their just so clueless in life. So in conclusion if you look at

someones original birth chart thats who they'll always be.

Sorry, just had to get this out it was really bothering me for a long time, but

YEAH haha thats what i think thou go ahead and reply and say what you think .

[eliminated non-astrological comments, moved to chat section - Moderator]

An astrologer-monk called Placido de Titus - if you can get through his writings, you deserve an award.

They are (or originally were) meant as a predictive technique for life events - used in conjunction with things like solar returns, profections, primary directions, firdaria - especially PDs, that was much of what Placido wrote about.

In case you're wondering, sun-sign astrology wasn't invented until the early 1900s, which was well after the advent of secondary progressions. So the idea that your sign changes would have been utterly alien, to the point of incomprehensibility, to the people who first used progressions.

In truth, they weren't the method of choice for most astrologers - until modern astrology happened, anyway - again - several centuries after the fact. And since modern astrology bears only the slightest resemblance to the astrology of Placido's time - eh - well, you've seen the results.

I don't tend to use progressions, either, but I've run them sometimes, and I think they can work if you know how to use them. But not as stand-alones.

haha well i agree with you astrology changed sooooo much and maybe not for

the better thats why i always try to use the oldest method's but if i ever get to

read anything from placidus il try to debate on what i think is right and wrong

Hi,

can anyone recommend material or location for international/global/regional discussion and change of astrology? I think it's time to take these things to the highest level!

I'm very interested in the fact that you don't use progressions very much, Olivia. You're an example of a long-time member here, respected for knowledge, input and analysis. The fact that such a member takes this stance (I say this with innocent curiosity) grabs my attention. (There are other astrologers on here who debuke something in mainstream astro. too)

Plus, it seems that no matter how much I know about astrology's history, along comes more news, hinting at horrible inconsistency (and frequently 'accident's becoming popular) ...

I hope curiosity, determination and clarity can fix that...

Try James Holden's History of Horoscopic Astrology when you have a few quid to spare. It's paperback, so not too dear, and he also goes into the techniques used throughout the millennia pretty extensively - you can actually do most of them on your own chart if you follow along with those parts of the book.

Nick Campion has a two-volume set out now on the history of astrology, but that's very pricey, and regrettably, astrologers aren't known for having unlimited income. You may be able to read it at a university library, though.

cl0udmaKer said:

"Progressed Charts" are load poop to me, i dont know who made them up and

who thought of the idea... yeah your thinking might change as you get older but

thats only cause your learning life lessons. Some people dont even understand

what im saying cause their just so clueless in life. So in conclusion if you look at

someones original birth chart thats who they'll always be.

Sorry, just had to get this out it was really bothering me for a long time, but

YEAH haha thats what i think thou go ahead and reply and say what you think .

Click to expand...

I know what you mean, there is so much to understand it can be overwhelming and you always remain at the tip of the iceberg - I do believe much in this field is rubbish for wont of a better word, and astrologer has been married with many other things, i guess just work with what works for you? read, think, experiment and see what remains solid in the end, bit saturnian i guess

cl0udmaKer said:

"Progressed Charts" are load poop to me, i dont know who made them up and
...

Click to expand...

Very glad to see you commenting on this. I think it is a learning curve. With time you may start finding value in it.

Some of the key concepts in Western Astrology are based cycle, such as:

~ Earth's one rotation (24 hours) ~= 360 years (4 minutes = 1 year)
~ Earths' one revolution around sun ~= 360 years (1 day = one year)
~ One lunar return = one year
~ Solar return triggering new years cycle
~ Venus return, Mars return, Jupiter return, Saturn return triggering their own experience cycles
~ Uranus return = Human life cycle experience

Astrologers apply various techniques. Not every thing is followed So for the time being skipping Progressed Chart is OK.

cl0udmaKer said:

yeah your thinking might change as you get older but thats only cause your learning life lessons.

Click to expand...

Even in Traditional Astrology it is possible for a "not good" person to become less "not good" or even good. You'd have to use Primary Direction and direct the Significator of Manners through the Terms and then look at the Term Rulers that are affected and the participating Planet (if any) in that Term, but it can happen (although granted it is rare).

For the same reason, it's possible for a good person to become "not good" or even sheer evil.

Still, you discredit yourself with your own statement, since the life lessons learned are dependent on the Planet, Sign and House. Not everyone has the same life experiences and I certainly wouldn't wish my life experiences on anyone.

cl0udmaKer said:

what im saying cause their just so clueless in life.

Click to expand...

Granted, some people have difficulty understand astrological concepts just as other have difficulty spelling, but no one says that Secondary Progressions show that people change. They only show where people's focus in life is and as Planets change Signs/Houses that focus can shift.

The Sun changing Houses/Signs doesn't mean someone changes, but it does mean they can expand or add to what they already have.

My Progressed Sun has been in Cancer for some time and while I am extremely intelligent and incredibly devious, I'm also very domesticated. I learned how to cook, then I went to a culinary school to learn how to cook better. I even bought a red and white checkered table cloth just like they had my favorite restaurants in Vicenza. 20 years ago, I would have shot Madonna, now I actually like her music.

cl0udmaKer said:

someones original birth chart thats who they'll always be.

Click to expand...

For the most part that's true, but people do undergo subtle changes throughout their lives, and as I said you have to direct certain Significators around the chart for a clearer picture.

There was an astrologer (his name escapes me) who ardently supported Secondary Progressions until he was severely injured when hit by a car crossing the street. Then he spent quite few years railing against Secondary Progressions until one day he was looking over his chart on the day of that fateful event and found that he had missed an aspect which clearly indicated the accident including his crushed pelvis and such. Then he started supporting it again.

Agreed, I can't see theoretical basis for the use of progressions either. I see solid basis for the usage of transits in order to pinpoint events in one's past, present and future, but progressions do seem to me quite convoluted and random. it's like, add one degree to every year of life: ok, then why not add ten degrees, or 13? Or half? Or why not add 30 degrees to the sun every year of life, so you have a "scorpio year", then a "sagittarius year", and so on?

Transits to me have solid basis, it's out there, the real movement of the stars, it's simple and clear as crystal, not some random numbers thrown back and forth.

BobZemco said:

Even in Traditional Astrology it is possible for a "not good" person to become less "not good" or even good. You'd have to use Primary Direction and direct the Significator of Manners through the Terms and then look at the Term Rulers that are affected and the participating Planet (if any) in that Term, but it can happen (although granted it is rare).

For the same reason, it's possible for a good person to become "not good" or even sheer evil.

Still, you discredit yourself with your own statement, since the life lessons learned are dependent on the Planet, Sign and House. Not everyone has the same life experiences and I certainly wouldn't wish my life experiences on anyone.


Granted, some people have difficulty understand astrological concepts just as other have difficulty spelling, but no one says that Secondary Progressions show that people change. They only show where people's focus in life is and as Planets change Signs/Houses that focus can shift.

The Sun changing Houses/Signs doesn't mean someone changes, but it does mean they can expand or add to what they already have.

My Progressed Sun has been in Cancer for some time and while I am extremely intelligent and incredibly devious, I'm also very domesticated. I learned how to cook, then I went to a culinary school to learn how to cook better. I even bought a red and white checkered table cloth just like they had my favorite restaurants in Vicenza. 20 years ago, I would have shot Madonna, now I actually like her music.



For the most part that's true, but people do undergo subtle changes throughout their lives, and as I said you have to direct certain Significators around the chart for a clearer picture.

There was an astrologer (his name escapes me) who ardently supported Secondary Progressions until he was severely injured when hit by a car crossing the street. Then he spent quite few years railing against Secondary Progressions until one day he was looking over his chart on the day of that fateful event and found that he had missed an aspect which clearly indicated the accident including his crushed pelvis and such. Then he started supporting it again.

Click to expand...

yeah maybe not everyone has the same life experiences but they can relate to most of them for example being insecure is a life lesson and it doesn't feel good so someone can relate to that, or being depressed people can relate to that too... my chart hasn't left any of my signs yet (im pretty sure) maybe like 1 planet or something but when it'll have a drastic change then maybe il change my mind, but for now everything you said is going through one ear and out the next one.

The astrological thinking has a better move and has its own position. To believe in astrology is 50% and another half of the 50% is according to you. You need to be in control and it will also change everything you need in life. So try to believe yourself first. This is my suggestion, so don't get misunderstand on this.

IMHO, what has ultimately happened is that astrology has become mass produced and presented as available and understandable to all. In short, it has been dumbed down.

The "ancients" not only knew astrology but, they were also well versed in astronomy, another (if not several) languages and a good helping of philosophy and science (of the time) and probably history, too Today, you are lucky to find someone who knows how to input their own data into a computer to cast a chart.

So, the real breakdown comes when this ancient Art meets modern attitudes. We think that things like prograssions for example are the newest or most logical thing and therefore correct. But, in actuallity they have been taken way out of the original context they were used in and applied in ways they were not meant to be used.

I think the confusion in all of this is we have lost our roots for each of the methods and house systems and the knowledge of how/why/when each was applied. To compensate, it has become a sort of pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey affair for the last several hundred years.