Personality and natal chart

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clip11

Well-known member
In my chart a lot of the placements predict my personality. Or so i thought.

I suffered what would be called developmental trauma likely due to having suffered a premature induced birth which i took 12 hours to be born and then suffering a dangerously high fever which left me hospitalized in NICU for a week. This was the first 2 weeks of my life.

Now as i learn more about developmental trauma i found that what i thought was my personality a lot of it are just the psychological symptoms of trauma. For example certain placements in my chart like saturn in the 3rd would indicate introversion and excessive introversion especially when one wants to be otherwise can be a symptom of developmental trauma. Or i have saturn square my ascendant a placement that can indicate low self esteem. But low self esteem is another mental symptom of developmental trauma. I have my mars in pisces and a lot of the negatives of that placement would be considered mental symptoms of developmental trauma.

I know that had i not suffered developmental trauma and got to have normal psychological development i likely would be more outgoing and have high self esteem. So i dont consider trauma symptoms to be my true personality.

So when i look at my chart how can i decipher what its telling me about my true personality and the parts that have been infected by trauma?

I cant post my chart from this phone but any insight would be helpful.
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
''So when i look at my chart how can i decipher what its telling me about my true personality and the parts that have been infected by trauma?''


I need to see the chart. If you can't post it post your birth data including time and place.

Otherwise I would just be guessing.
LIN
 
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G

greybeard

Well-known member
Your life as it is lived is what is shown by the chart.

Your personality is what it is, including effects of the trauma.

I believe you are looking for something to blame for a situation you don't like. You would be better served by coming to terms with your reality and making that your starting point.

.
 
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C

clip11

Well-known member
Lin said:
''So when i look at my chart how can i decipher what its telling me about my true personality and the parts that have been infected by trauma?''<br />
<br />
<br />
I need to see the chart. If you can't post it post your birth data including time and place.<br />
<br />
Otherwise I would just be guessing.<br />
LIN
Click to expand...
<br />
December 29 1986<br />
1115 pm<br />
Detroit michigan
Thanks
 
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C

clip11

Well-known member
greybeard said:
Your life as it is lived is what is shown by the chart.

Your personality is what it is, including effects of the trauma.

I believe you are looking for something to blame for a situation you don't like. You would be better served by coming to terms with your reality and making that your starting point.

.
Click to expand...

Im not blaming anything. That is the cause. Thats like saying that youre blaming your sneezing on having a cold. Or when i broke my hand and it swole up saying im 'blaming my swelling on the fact that my hand is broken'
 
G

greybeard

Well-known member
I didn't mean any criticism.

If you are not "blaming" anything, why do you separate your "real" personality from your "trauma-induced" personality?
They are not distinct; they
are one.

And with the trauma occurring at and around birth the effects are far too deep to allow for change.
 
C

clip11

Well-known member
greybeard said:
I didn't mean any criticism.

If you are not "blaming" anything, why do you separate your "real" personality from your "trauma-induced" personality?
They are not distinct; they
are one.

And with the trauma occurring at and around birth the effects are far too deep to allow for change.
Click to expand...

What I meant by real personality is how I would have been if I were healthy, for lack of a better word. Developmental trauma means missing or having delayed growth in critical areas of emotional and psychological development which can even affect you physically.

I'll say this...if you want to ruin someone's life well into adulthood, make sure that they suffer developmental trauma early as possible. It makes the saying "trouble is easy to get into but hard to get out of" that much more true.

This kind of explains developmental trauma
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...tegration/201808/what-is-developmental-trauma

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ough-childhood-can-affect-adult-relationships

https://www.acesconnection.com/blog/developmental-trauma-what-you-can-t-see
 
Puppy beans

Puppy beans

Member
greybeard said:
Your life as it is lived is what is shown by the chart.

Your personality is what it is, including effects of the trauma.

I believe you are looking for something to blame for a situation you don't like. You would be better served by coming to terms with your reality and making that your starting point.

.
Click to expand...


I believe op is asking if his birth chart shows his natural and healthy self without the trauma, so s/he could use it as a guide towards recovery.
 
G

greybeard

Well-known member
Puppy beans said:
I believe op is asking if his birth chart shows his natural and healthy self without the trauma, so s/he could use it as a guide towards recovery.
Click to expand...



Point taken. I understand.

Please read the first paragraph of my post you quoted.

Suppose a young highly athletic (Heisman Trophy) man on the point of signing a multi-million $ NFL contract. The night before signing...a horrible motorcycle crash. Both legs gone. NFL gone. Fortune gone. Wheelchair for life.

You can't go back.

The only possible starting point is here and now. The present reality.
 
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L

Lin

Well-known member
"They are not distinct; they
are one."

You know this is not actually true.

See: "Healing the Child Within" by Dr. Charles L. Whitfield. He (and many other researchers in the past several decades) has researched the traumatize child.

In his first chapter there is a Table I which lists "Some traits of the Real Self and the Co-dependent Self."

I suggest reading this book. It is accessible and clear.

Studies on Living in the dysfunctional family are key bodies of research which inform a lot of the way astrologers read for their clients since.

John Bradshaw wrote several books on the dysfunctional family....including the groundbreaking "Healing the Shame that Binds You."

Just because we have these injuries inflicted upon us we must never be in "denial" about the fact that this was done.

So although it's true that we must do the best with what we have....or ...."it is what it is" which is a saying I hate.....we must go BACK and understand and remember and know what happened in the past. THIS is the way we

REWRITE OUR TAPES- THIS IS THE WAY WE BEGIN TO HEAL.

LIN
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
This is your natal chart with current transits;
 

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L

Lin

Well-known member
Frank, it's all there.
Uranus and Saturn on the IC; chaos and over controlling at home. Moon next to Uranus imprints the chaos on your emotional memory...even your physical memory.

Neptune and Mercury conj Neptune.....lack of your own identity because of the unpredictable, dysfunctional, controlling and probably abusive events that categorize your 4th house of "home". i

Identity crisis because of Neptune sitting between Mercury and Sun.

This makes it hard for you to build a "goal system" because the Moon rules your 11th house.
Mercury in that mix affects your ability to find a career you can identify with.

Mars and Jupiter square all the planets in Sagittarius around the Nadir (IC) means that your natural energies were both minimalized and disregarded....and never encouraged.

YOu were programmed to believe the lies you were told as a child.

Supportive energies are Venus trine Mars and Jupiter. But even tho those are positive energies, they only work WELL by first unraveling that dysfunctional 4th house.

If drugs or alcohol or other addictive behavior were involved, my first thought would be find a 12th step program for those who had to grow up with addictive behaviors and abusive behaviors as a daily part of one's life.

It's almost impossible to extricate oneself from a Saturn-Uranus pattern in the home as a child, but....it is possible to transform that energy to have it work FOR you instead of against you.

Understanding the lies you were told and believed is the first step. KNowing that you had no power over the behaviors and substances that were around you is important.
BUT....making sure that you don't "mimic" those same behaviors takes major effort.

Pluto sextile Sun (and Neptune & Merc) tells me that it is POSSIBLE for you to transform your life. Pluto represents metamorphosis and transformation. the sextile from Pluto to the Sun means you can (are literally able) to do this with work and GUIDANCE.

A 12-step program is a good first step. IF you haven't already gone this route. If you have in the past and it didn't work, maybe if you read the books I mentioned above and THEN try the 12 step process again it will "take" this time.

The important thing to remember is that NOW YOU are your own authority figure. YOU are the "Indra" of your life. You're 32 now. You are young enough to begin healing and to have a different life. If you carry the images around with you like a photo album it will harm you.

You need new images. New visualizations of the goals and future YOU want rather than subliminally reproducing that which has happened in the past. You don't want to be that person who was abusive and controlling of others.

You want to use that power and control on yourself to make a different future from your past.
Sometimes you have to totally change your environment to a place which does not remind you of the past. Sometimes you have to "divorce" parts of your family.

Sometimes it's like cutting off parts of yourself which was toxic and growing new, healthy emotional realities. It's hard because it requires us to stop believing the lies from the past. And recognizing our strengths and power. And you do have power you probably have not used to your best advantage.

LIN
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
Looking at your transits, transit Uranus is about to give you opportunities you have not had before. Uranus enters Taurus in March. It trines your Mercury right away. It will then, as time goes on trine your Neptune and sun. That gives you a good beginning for a new way of living.

Neptune is square your Saturn...and it may work one of 2 ways. First, it can lower your resolve to make changes. It can lie to you and say that you don't necessarily remember correctly. It can lie and say that you don't have your own power.

On the other hand transit Pluto in Capricorn is sextile your natal Venus now and is a powerful ally. KNOW what you want. make lists. KNOW your priorities.

Transit Saturn will catch up with Pluto at some point and ALSO sextile your Venus in Scorpio. This will give you more power and clarity about what you WANT...your REAL values. NOT those taught by the lies of your childhood but YOUR real values.

Venus also rules your 9th house of philosophy, beliefs, higher education. You can go back to school and you can do it successfully if you want to learn something new and make yourself more valuable in the workplace or just want to LEARN for the sake of learning.

Studying mythology, astrology, comparitive religion, or just learning something that multiplies your natural talents....whatever....is a possibility with Pluto and Saturn sextile Venus, the ruler of your 9th. Venus also rules your 2nd house of "values' - personal values. Making money. Having nice things.

People with your background often find it difficult to stay in a successful relationship because your original role models for relationship were the dysfunctional erratic or chaotic people in your home.

FEELINGS can feel dangerous. Worrying that someone will use your feelings against you is always a problem. Because you equate feelings with the fearful things in your past.

Becoming a healthier person in other areas helps you strengthen your emotional mechanism. Just like physical exercise and habits of taking care of your health strengthens your body, emotional "exercise" strengthens your emotional mechanism and allows you to live in the PRESENT and not in the past.

It's important though to not keep your past a secret from potential friends and lovers.

I don't mean that in the first week of knowing someone you dump all the garbage on the table....no.....I mean that in the appropriate times....when discussing the pasts of the people you meet, you let them know that you came from an atmosphere that did not give you a healthy picture or role modeling of what a successful relationship is.

This must be done slowly, and that is why I am back to recommending a 12 step program.

You must always be vigilant about being honest and truthful, no matter how vulnerable it may make you feel. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do this. That is why having help, professional help is always a good way to go if possible.

LIN
 
C

clip11

Well-known member
Lin said:
Frank, it's all there.
Uranus and Saturn on the IC; chaos and over controlling at home. Moon next to Uranus imprints the chaos on your emotional memory...even your physical memory.

Neptune and Mercury conj Neptune.....lack of your own identity because of the unpredictable, dysfunctional, controlling and probably abusive events that categorize your 4th house of "home". i

Identity crisis because of Neptune sitting between Mercury and Sun.

This makes it hard for you to build a "goal system" because the Moon rules your 11th house.
Mercury in that mix affects your ability to find a career you can identify with.

Mars and Jupiter square all the planets in Sagittarius around the Nadir (IC) means that your natural energies were both minimalized and disregarded....and never encouraged.

YOu were programmed to believe the lies you were told as a child.

Supportive energies are Venus trine Mars and Jupiter. But even tho those are positive energies, they only work WELL by first unraveling that dysfunctional 4th house.

If drugs or alcohol or other addictive behavior were involved, my first thought would be find a 12th step program for those who had to grow up with addictive behaviors and abusive behaviors as a daily part of one's life.

It's almost impossible to extricate oneself from a Saturn-Uranus pattern in the home as a child, but....it is possible to transform that energy to have it work FOR you instead of against you.

Understanding the lies you were told and believed is the first step. KNowing that you had no power over the behaviors and substances that were around you is important.
BUT....making sure that you don't "mimic" those same behaviors takes major effort.

Pluto sextile Sun (and Neptune & Merc) tells me that it is POSSIBLE for you to transform your life. Pluto represents metamorphosis and transformation. the sextile from Pluto to the Sun means you can (are literally able) to do this with work and GUIDANCE.

A 12-step program is a good first step. IF you haven't already gone this route. If you have in the past and it didn't work, maybe if you read the books I mentioned above and THEN try the 12 step process again it will "take" this time.

The important thing to remember is that NOW YOU are your own authority figure. YOU are the "Indra" of your life. You're 32 now. You are young enough to begin healing and to have a different life. If you carry the images around with you like a photo album it will harm you.

You need new images. New visualizations of the goals and future YOU want rather than subliminally reproducing that which has happened in the past. You don't want to be that person who was abusive and controlling of others.

You want to use that power and control on yourself to make a different future from your past.
Sometimes you have to totally change your environment to a place which does not remind you of the past. Sometimes you have to "divorce" parts of your family.

Sometimes it's like cutting off parts of yourself which was toxic and growing new, healthy emotional realities. It's hard because it requires us to stop believing the lies from the past. And recognizing our strengths and power. And you do have power you probably have not used to your best advantage.

LIN
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. It was really insightful and explained a lot. As a child my parents were very hard on me about school. At the time, it was unknown that I had ADD and so I didn't do well in school. And so this caused me to get frequent corporal punishments due to my performance or lack thereof, in school. It was treated like the end of the world if I brought home an F on a 5th grade report card.

I myself have dealt with and am dealing with **** addiction. A thing I have been trying to overcome for years now.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
clip11 said:
In my chart a lot of the placements predict my personality. Or so i thought.

I suffered what would be called developmental trauma likely due to having suffered a premature induced birth which i took 12 hours to be born and then suffering a dangerously high fever which left me hospitalized in NICU for a week. This was the first 2 weeks of my life.

Now as i learn more about developmental trauma i found that what i thought was my personality a lot of it are just the psychological symptoms of trauma. For example certain placements in my chart like saturn in the 3rd would indicate introversion and excessive introversion especially when one wants to be otherwise can be a symptom of developmental trauma. Or i have saturn square my ascendant a placement that can indicate low self esteem. But low self esteem is another mental symptom of developmental trauma. I have my mars in pisces and a lot of the negatives of that placement would be considered mental symptoms of developmental trauma.

I know that had i not suffered developmental trauma and got to have normal psychological development i likely would be more outgoing and have high self esteem. So i dont consider trauma symptoms to be my true personality.

So when i look at my chart how can i decipher what its telling me about my true personality and the parts that have been infected by trauma?

I cant post my chart from this phone but any insight would be helpful.
Click to expand...
Main Rulerships of 1st house :smile:
Life, vitality and health. Stature, colour, complexion
form and shape of body.
Older sources note its influence upon the intellect, the way the mind works, and speech.
1st house represents the focal point for the personality and manner of expression.
As well as describing the physical appearance
the condition of this house and that of its planetary ruler
indicates the level of personal vitality and strength
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h1.html
 
Flapjacks

Flapjacks

Well-known member
clip11 said:
I know that had i not suffered developmental trauma and got to have normal psychological development i likely would be more outgoing and have high self esteem. So i dont consider trauma symptoms to be my true personality.

So when i look at my chart how can i decipher what its telling me about my true personality and the parts that have been infected by trauma?
Click to expand...

Lin said:
Just because we have these injuries inflicted upon us we must never be in "denial" about the fact that this was done.

So although it's true that we must do the best with what we have....or ...."it is what it is" which is a saying I hate.....we must go BACK and understand and remember and know what happened in the past. THIS is the way we

REWRITE OUR TAPES- THIS IS THE WAY WE BEGIN TO HEAL.

LIN
Click to expand...

It isn't very helpful to frame trauma in "what if it never happened" scenarios if the goal is to heal. Even when we're a victim of circumstances, we have to either own it and integrate it, or let it go. Personally, that is why I appreciate the phrase "it is what it is" because it doesn't hold on to excuses, or entertain half-truths, for why things are as they are.

That said, the question can't be what "parts" of the chart show innate personality vs externally imposed (personality??), that makes no sense. However, where changes might occur is seen through transits, progressions, returns, etc. I'd encourage clip to think of the chart as always evolving by using those methods, and tracing a path of his experiences that way.

Chiron jumps out at as relevant. It is conjunct MC and Rx, opposed Moon/Saturn/Uranus and square Mars/Jupiter on the DC, which are in turn also square one another - a configuration that is very strong in the theme of being under the thumb of an erratic and yet still dogmatic authority, where those attitudes become internalized by Moon. It looks like it could indicate a perpetual victim identity based around unjust feelings/experiences of persecution. Even though it is primarily in the private space of the 4th house, Chiron shows that "going public" would be where healing would start, albeit unpleasantly.

When Chiron goes direct by progression, it signals a major change concerning these wounds, a release, and potentially coming to terms with them. That is a long way off - it goes direct by progression in 2040. :annoyed:
 
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C

clip11

Well-known member
Flapjacks said:
It isn't very helpful to frame trauma in "what if it never happened" scenarios if the goal is to heal. Even when we're a victim of circumstances, we have to either own it and integrate it, or let it go. Personally, that is why I appreciate the phrase "it is what it is" because it doesn't hold on to excuses, or entertain half-truths, for why things are as they are.

That said, the question can't be what "parts" of the chart show innate personality vs externally imposed (personality??), that makes no sense. However, where changes might occur is seen through transits, progressions, returns, etc. I'd encourage clip to think of the chart as always evolving by using those methods, and tracing a path of his experiences that way.

Chiron jumps out at as relevant. It is conjunct MC and Rx, opposed Moon/Saturn/Uranus and square Mars/Jupiter on the DC, which are in turn also square one another - a configuration that is very strong in the theme of being under the thumb of an erratic and yet still dogmatic authority, where those attitudes become internalized by Moon. It looks like it could indicate a perpetual victim identity based around unjust feelings/experiences of persecution. Even though it is primarily in the private space of the 4th house, Chiron shows that "going public" would be where healing would start, albeit unpleasantly.

When Chiron goes direct by progression, it signals a major change concerning these wounds, a release, and potentially coming to terms with them. That is a long way off - it goes direct by progression in 2040. :annoyed:
Click to expand...
Going public? What does that mean?

And by 2040 I'll be almost old enough to draw SS. So that won't help me.
 
L

Lin

Well-known member
Frank, did you read my post #13?

And you sort of "blew off" my suggestion of a 12 step program. If you EVER want to heal you cannot do it alone. And a 12 step program is the BEST FIRST STEP and doesn't COST anything. Just some time and a willingness to listen.
LIN
 
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