What constitutes as a poorly placed planet? Is it its location or aspects or what?

Kaj · Jun 20, 2015

How do you know if a planet is poorly or well placed? This is a concept I have come across recently in my astrological research.

I am trying to dissect my natal chart and a few of the people closest to me and so far it has been beyond fascinating.

I am asking this because I have a feeling that my sun is "poorly placed", it's in 3rd house, Aries- two strong things I think. The third house feels like home and aries seems to be hot like the sun so maybe it strengthens the placement? I don't know.

But the aspects of my sun are all horrible, I think. My sun SQUARES the Moon, Neptune and Uranus which are ALL in conjunction together and trine/sextile Pluto. It feels weird to know how conflicted my sun is with other planets that are strong. It seems to fit the theme of my life in that I am in a constant battle with myself, rational vs irrational, i'm quite good at both but I digress.

Based on my Sun's aspects would it be correct to say that it is poorly placed? How exactly do you determine a poorly placed planet?

Thanks! this is my first post, for years up until now I have been learning about astrology on my own, I have taught myself quite a bit I think. But now I am trying to get more specific about things. I hope I can learn more here!

Julian · Jun 21, 2015

Kaj said:
How do you know if a planet is poorly or well placed? This is a concept I have come across recently in my astrological research.

I am trying to dissect my natal chart and a few of the people closest to me and so far it has been beyond fascinating.

I am asking this because I have a feeling that my sun is "poorly placed", it's in 3rd house, Aries- two strong things I think. The third house feels like home and aries seems to be hot like the sun so maybe it strengthens the placement? I don't know.

But the aspects of my sun are all horrible, I think. My sun SQUARES the Moon, Neptune and Uranus which are ALL in conjunction together and trine/sextile Pluto. It feels weird to know how conflicted my sun is with other planets that are strong. It seems to fit the theme of my life in that I am in a constant battle with myself, rational vs irrational, i'm quite good at both but I digress.

Based on my Sun's aspects would it be correct to say that it is poorly placed? How exactly do you determine a poorly placed planet?

Thanks! this is my first post, for years up until now I have been learning about astrology on my own, I have taught myself quite a bit I think. But now I am trying to get more specific about things. I hope I can learn more here!

First of all, it's rare to see a weak Sun in a natal chart. Your sun is aspected and in its exaltation. Also if you don't like your Sun because it's cadent then look at the Whole-signs house system. It may go from the 3rd house to the 4th. My Sun for example, is also aspected, in a cadent house (9th house) and in Aries aswell, but in the whole signs system it's in the 10th. My Sun is ALMOST opposed to my Moon by the way, they're 10 degrees apart and the opposition would be separative. Your Sun is definitely not weak because it's aspected. It may be afflicted, but not weakened. Look at the ruler of the Sun (mars) how's it doing? My mars is afflicted so I could say that my Sun is a bit stressed because of my Mars. Look at what houses does the Sun rule by rulership and exaltation and also triplicity (where do Leo and Aries fall?)

An Aries Sun is always strong, aswell as a Leo and Sag. Sun (but saggittarius during the day only)furthermore if your Sun is in its own face and in Hayz, above the horizon and if you were born during the day. If so your Aries Sun is as strong as a Leo sun could be.

JUPITERASC · Jun 21, 2015

Julian said:
First of all, it's rare to see a weak Sun in a natal chart.

On the contrary it is not unusual to view a natal chart in which the Sun is "weak" :smile:

Julian said:
Your sun is aspected and in its exaltation.
Also if you don't like your Sun because it's cadent then look at the Whole-signs house system.
It may go from the 3rd house to the 4th.
My Sun for example, is also aspected, in a cadent house (9th house) and in Aries aswell,
but in the whole signs system it's in the 10th.

Using whole signs does not always change the house location of any natal planet
but it may

Julian said:
My Sun is ALMOST opposed to my Moon by the way, they're 10 degrees apart and the opposition would be separative.
Your Sun is definitely not weak because it's aspected.
It may be afflicted, but not weakened.
Look at the ruler of the Sun (mars) how's it doing?

Without a natal chart to view
much is unreliable generalisation

Julian said:
My mars is afflicted so I could say that my Sun is a bit stressed because of my Mars.
Look at what houses does the Sun rule by rulership and exaltation and also triplicity (where do Leo and Aries fall?)

An Aries Sun is always strong, aswell as a Leo and Sag. Sun (but saggittarius during the day only)
furthermore if your Sun is in its own face and in Hayz, above the horizon and if you were born during the day.
If so your Aries Sun is as strong as a Leo sun could be.

Without your natal chart Kaj, no factor of your natal chart can be reliably commented on

You have asked "How exactly do you determine a poorly placed planet?"
and the answer is
by viewing the individual natal chart in question

Julian · Jun 21, 2015

JUPITERASC said:
On the contrary it is not unusual to view a natal chart in which the Sun is "weak"

I disagree, the Sun is always important and therefore powerful. It's like saying that the Ascendant isn't powerful. Sure, some ascendants have more influence than others, but generally speaking it's always strong. Wasn't you the one who said that the MC and AC are the most powerful points in a natal chart?

Using whole signs does not always change the house location of any natal planet
but it may

Read again what I said, I said that it may go from the third house to the fourth house.

Without a natal chart to view
much is unreliable generalisation

True, but everything I said in regards to Kaj's question was based only on what he considers to be relevant to the question (where is his Sun placed, etc.) but of course, if he gave us his natal chart it would be much appreciated.

JUPITERASC · Jun 21, 2015

Julian said:
I disagree, the Sun is always important and therefore powerful.

Every planet is an important factor of every natal chart ~ so by your logic then every planet is therefore powerful :smile:

JUPITERASC · Jun 21, 2015

Julian said:
It's like saying that the Ascendant isn't powerful.
Sure, some ascendants have more influence than others, but generally speaking it's always strong.

When using HOROSCOPIC ASTROLOGY
the Ascendant is obviously the most important area of any natal chart :smile:

JUPITERASC · Jun 21, 2015

Julian said:
Wasn't you the one who said that the MC and AC are the most powerful points in a natal chart?

I simply quoted the following :smile:

'....The houses are not all equal in strength and power.
If a planet is located in an angular house,
it is much more forceful in its effects than it would be in a cadent house.

On page 48 of Christian Astrology Lilly writes:

The angles are most powerful, the succeedents are next in virtue,
the cadents poor, and of little efficacy:
the succeedent houses follow the angles, the cadents come next [after] the succeedents.
In force and virtue they stand so in order:
1 10 7 4 11 5 9 3 2 8 6 12......'

'......The meaning whereof is this,
that two planets equally dignified, the one in the Ascendant,
the other in the tenth house,
you shall judge the planet in the Ascendant somewhat of more power to effect what he is significator of,
than he that is in the tenth:
do so in the rest as they stand in order,
remembering that planets in angles do more forcibly show their effects...'

FREE ONLINE TUTORIAL STATES:

'.....The astrological angles
- ascendant, midheaven (MC), descendant and lower midheaven (IC)
- are the most potent and influential areas in any chart.
Any planet that is in conjunction with an angle will have a marked influence
that resonates throughout the chart and greatly colours its overall meaning.

Because of their primary importance the angles are often referred to as the 'cardinal points'
and they relate directly to the cardinal directions east, south, west and north.

The word 'cardinal' comes from the Latin cardo meaning 'hinge', indicating something of primary importance.
Ancient astrologers viewed the cardinal points as the great axis that held the earth in position...'

MANILIUS, writing in the first century BC, asserts:
These points are charged with exceptional powers,
and the influence they exert on fate
is the greatest known to our science,
because the celestial circle is totally held in position by them as by eternal supports http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary1d.html

Julian · Jun 21, 2015

JUPITERASC said:
Every planet is an important factor of every natal chart ~ so by your logic then every planet is therefore powerful

You're kidding me right? Are you telling me that the Sun and the Moon are not important? Every astrologer knows that both the Sun and the Moon are important because they are. Obviously the rest of the planets are usually not as important.

(I said important four times including this one yay)

Also not every planet is an important factor of a natal chart. You could have a 12th house feral Saturn in Cancer with a poorly placed Moon (its dispositor) and there you go, a not-so relevant planet.

JUPITERASC · Jun 21, 2015

Julian said:
You're kidding me right?
Are you telling me that the Sun and the Moon are not important?
Every astrologer knows that both the Sun and the Moon are important because they are.

I said
"every planet is an important factor of every natal chart" :smile:

Julian said:
Obviously the rest of the planets are usually not as important.

planets are important factors of every natal chart

Julian said:
(I said important four times including this one yay)

Well done

Julian said:
Also not every planet is an important factor of a natal chart.
You could have a 12th house feral Saturn in Cancer with a poorly placed Moon (its dispositor) and there you go, a not-so relevant planet.

my comment responds to your comment:
i.e.

Julian said:
I disagree, the Sun is always important and therefore powerful.

Every planet is an important factor of every natal chart ~ so by your logic then every planet is therefore powerful :smile:

Kaj · Jun 21, 2015

Julian said:
I disagree, the Sun is always important and therefore powerful. It's like saying that the Ascendant isn't powerful. Sure, some ascendants have more influence than others, but generally speaking it's always strong. Wasn't you the one who said that the MC and AC are the most powerful points in a natal chart?

Read again what I said, I said that it may go from the third house to the fourth house.

True, but everything I said in regards to Kaj's question was based only on what he considers to be relevant to the question (where is his Sun placed, etc.) but of course, if he gave us his natal chart it would be much appreciated.

Hey all, so here is my natal chart, i'm also female btw in case that makes a difference.

I was born 12:30 am on april 7th and it was unseasonably warm, like 35 degrees in canada..which is unheard of that early in april. but im looking at how the sun is placed in the chart. i have lots of fire in both my sun sign and ascendant, but my sun seems so conlifted

JUPITERASC · Jun 21, 2015

Kaj said:
Hey all, so here is my natal chart, i'm also female btw in case that makes a difference.

I was born 12:30 am on april 7th and it was unseasonably warm, like 35 degrees in canada..
which is unheard of that early in april.
but im looking at how the sun is placed in the chart.
i have lots of fire in both my sun sign and ascendant,
but my sun seems so conlifted

Regarding the house location of your natal sun:
The house location of any natal planet is entirely dependent on the house system chosen
a fact easily verified by using any of the selection of fourteen different house systems
on offer at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page

EXPLANATORY ASTROLOGICAL HOUSES ARTICLE http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.html

QUOTE

'...In no other area of astrology is there so much mess and confusion than in the area of the so-called "houses".
There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity.
In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains, represent general areas of life activity
and are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets. Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable
or
meant the same thing.
A planet in Aries was also a planet in the house of Aries,
so that in effect. there were no real houses as we know them today....'

'….Artificial divisions now known as houses
were attempts by early Greeks and Hindus to measure strength "points" in the horoscope,
which during 7th and 8th centuries AD were construed
or confused
as means of dividing the birth chart.
The ascendant and midheaven degrees and their opposites, for example, were definite power points or areas of intense focus,
but not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant. ....'

JUPITERASC · Jun 21, 2015

Using whole signs, your natal Aries Sun is in 5th house
in applying trine to your Jupiter ruled Sagittarius Ascendant :smile:

Astrologers all have their own preferences regarding which house system to use

Kaj · Jun 21, 2015

interesting, how can i get an interpretation (for free) of a whole signs chart, i have never heard of this before.

JUPITERASC · Jun 21, 2015

Each House of any natal chart has its own signification or topics

Above is a two-dimensional illustration of astrological houses

Below is a three-dimensional illustration of astrological houses

Main Rulerships of 3rd House for example:

Brothers and sisters
cousins or general members of the family
(not parents, they belong to the 4th house).
Neighbours and our local neighbourhood.
The environment in which we live and work.
Short journeys or those made on a regular basis.
Lilly notes that this house shows a propensity for: "oft removing from one place to another"
Letters, rumours, reports, messages and messengers. Communications generally.
Newspapers, magazines, telephones, postal service.
Written deeds and contracts.
Speeches and debates.
Our ability to express ourselves and communicate to others.
Languages, mobility skills and self-expression http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h3.html

In contrast,

Main Rulerships of 5th house:

'.....Children. The health and condition of children. If afflicted, trouble and distress from children.
Love affairs, romance, lovemaking, sex, procreation and conception.
If afflicted, promiscuity, sexual inhibition, immorality, overindulgence and scandals.
Pleasure, gifts and all pleasant things.
Items purchased for the purpose of pleasure and enjoyment.
The arts and muses. Dancing, music, merriment.
Clothes, fineries and rich, luxurious things.......'

'.....Horse-racing, betting on sport, lotteries and all forms of gambling and speculation.
Speculation on the stock market is often assigned here
but where the investment is based upon financial or business decisions the 2nd house has more relevance.
Although Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson popularised the notion that it rules speculation on the stock market,
she defined its influence as ruling "everything whose outcome is a matter of chance"

It rules places associated with games and sport
such as sporting arenas, resorts, gymnasiums.....'

Also banquets, inns, pubs, taverns, theatres and plays, parks
all places of entertainment and enjoyment.
Parties and social occasions; feasts.
Matters associated with the leisure industry and those who work in the arts.
Diplomats, ambassadors and agents
those who negotiate as an intermediary with the intention of finding agreement between others.
Hobbies and all things done for personal pleasure and enjoyment http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h5.html

JUPITERASC · Jun 21, 2015

Kaj said:
interesting, how can i get an interpretation (for free) of a whole signs chart, i have never heard of this before.

Ours is an astrological learning forum where any member irrespective of knowledge or experience
posts an opinion
some of our members have only days of experience
other members have a few months of experience
some members have a year of experience
some members have several years, even decades of experience
and this is a formula for lively discussion

the delineation of any natal chart takes time, at the very least many hours, days
our members have other occupations and post on the forum in order to extend their astrological expereince and learn

and so
it is simply not possible to provide complete free delineation online on the forum for every person who posts

our rules http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/faq.php
clearly state: "Please know that you should take your own risks
if you decide to trust someone else with their astrological services,
as this forum does not undertake any responsibility for any astrological services
especially those offered against a fee, via this forum in any form: through public forums or chat, private messages or emails.

Also remember that this is a public forum,
indexed by search engines (Google, for instance),
so basically everything you post here is not only viewable by any other person,
but it also can be retrieved by a simple internet search"

graay ghost · Jun 21, 2015

Yeah, I'm going to step in and agree with Julian, luminaries (sun and moon) are always important. There are many different types of astrology being used on this board, though, so if you ask a question like this you're going to get a bunch of different opinions. :sideways:

One could consider sun square moon to be an unfortunate placement but considering that the moon in your case is in detriment in Capricorn, I'd be more likely to think that it's the moon that is "poorly placed", not the sun, but because this is the sun and moon we're talking about, it's hard for me to think of it as "poorly placed" and more just unfortunate that they're at cross-purposes. I don't think a 3rd house sun is particularly a bad thing, either, but then again, I have one, too.

Julian · Jun 21, 2015

JUPITERASC said:
Each House of any natal chart has its own signification or topics

Above is a two-dimensional illustration of astrological houses

Below is a three-dimensional illustration of astrological houses

Main Rulerships of 3rd House for example:

Brothers and sisters
cousins or general members of the family
(not parents, they belong to the 4th house).
Neighbours and our local neighbourhood.
The environment in which we live and work.
Short journeys or those made on a regular basis.
Lilly notes that this house shows a propensity for: "oft removing from one place to another"
Letters, rumours, reports, messages and messengers. Communications generally.
Newspapers, magazines, telephones, postal service.
Written deeds and contracts.
Speeches and debates.
Our ability to express ourselves and communicate to others.
Languages, mobility skills and self-expression http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h3.html

In contrast,

Main Rulerships of 5th house:

'.....Children. The health and condition of children. If afflicted, trouble and distress from children.
Love affairs, romance, lovemaking, sex, procreation and conception.
If afflicted, promiscuity, sexual inhibition, immorality, overindulgence and scandals.
Pleasure, gifts and all pleasant things.
Items purchased for the purpose of pleasure and enjoyment.
The arts and muses. Dancing, music, merriment.
Clothes, fineries and rich, luxurious things.......'

'.....Horse-racing, betting on sport, lotteries and all forms of gambling and speculation.
Speculation on the stock market is often assigned here
but where the investment is based upon financial or business decisions the 2nd house has more relevance.
Although Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson popularised the notion that it rules speculation on the stock market,
she defined its influence as ruling "everything whose outcome is a matter of chance"

It rules places associated with games and sport
such as sporting arenas, resorts, gymnasiums.....'

Also banquets, inns, pubs, taverns, theatres and plays, parks
all places of entertainment and enjoyment.
Parties and social occasions; feasts.
Matters associated with the leisure industry and those who work in the arts.
Diplomats, ambassadors and agents
those who negotiate as an intermediary with the intention of finding agreement between others.
Hobbies and all things done for personal pleasure and enjoyment http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h5.html

Her Sun is in the 4th house of home and family, using the Whole-signs house system. The 4th house starts in Aries so Aries becomes the 4th house.

Julian · Jun 21, 2015

Your dad is someone that was strict and aggressive on one side, but he seems to me as a person that loves his family, but he couldn't express it. His relationship with your mothervwasn't good right? Your mother probably was the one working all day in your family right?

Kaj · Jun 21, 2015

Julian said:
Your dad is someone that was strict and aggressive on one side, but he seems to me as a person that loves his family, but he couldn't express it. His relationship with your mothervwasn't good right? Your mother probably was the one working all day in your family right?

Couldn't be more accurate.

Kaj · Jun 21, 2015

graay ghost said:
Yeah, I'm going to step in and agree with Julian, luminaries (sun and moon) are always important. There are many different types of astrology being used on this board, though, so if you ask a question like this you're going to get a bunch of different opinions.

One could consider sun square moon to be an unfortunate placement but considering that the moon in your case is in detriment in Capricorn, I'd be more likely to think that it's the moon that is "poorly placed", not the sun, but because this is the sun and moon we're talking about, it's hard for me to think of it as "poorly placed" and more just unfortunate that they're at cross-purposes. I don't think a 3rd house sun is particularly a bad thing, either, but then again, I have one, too.

How is the moon in detriment in capricorn? Both my parents are capricorns, I blame this on them!lol

What constitutes as a poorly placed planet? Is it its location or aspects or what?

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