Loneliness.

anaiis

Active member
I was always lonely. It's about friends, love and family. I have parents but we were not so close. As a kid I really wanted to have a lot of frinds but I never had. I tried but finally I gave up and I accepted that. And it's ok but sometimes it's just sad. So I wonder where in my chart we can see that? Saturn square Venus probably, but what else? Can I change that?
I'm not sure if Mercury and Jupiter should be in 11th or 12th house. Someone asked me questions and told it's 11th. I hope so but im't not sure about that.
PS. Which planet is the strongest in my chart?

natal.jpg
 
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Rawiri

Well-known member
Like with anything significant in life, it can be seen in numerous ways. Firstly, I would consider Mercury and Jupiter in the 12th house by whole sign. It might be nicer if they were in the 11th - but evidently that is not being experienced in your life.

And they are both the ones I would attribute your problems to. Jupiter rules the 11th house, which is social groups and friends (of some sort). Mercury rules the 2nd house (which is a house that can be related to friends who are close friends). Mercury also generally refers to friends regardless of the house it rules.

Both of them are in the 12th, which is what we call a place of "aversion" because they do not aspect the 1st house (which represents you). Nor in your case, do they aspect the ruler of the 1st (Venus - representing you). Further being with the north node means they are related to it in someway and represent a kind of difficulty topic in your life to "overcome."

The Saturn square Venus may have some importance, but I would consider it less than the above.

You can't exactly change where the planets happened to be where you were born. From a glance, it's not a problem with anything you outright do - you have the ability to act charming, diplomatic and put a good foot forward first. But your mental outlook is very pessimistic and cautious despite how charming and graceful you might be able to appear (due to Saturn rising before the moon) so that is where you would have to work, rather than on anything you do. There are ways you could work with Mercury and Jupiter to ease things.

As for what planet is stronger, well - it's a vague question really. Stronger for what? A planet can be strong for one thing and weak for another. Venus is exalted and in a place it can act readily in your life so I'd suggest it as a general option. But it really depends on what we are looking at.
 

anaiis

Active member
Thank you Rawiri.
I mean which planet is the most influential in general.
Well, this is not very optimistic. According to Placidius Venus is also in 12th house.

But your mental outlook is very pessimistic and cautious

What indicates that?
 
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waybread

Well-known member
The old rule for making friends is to look for people lonelier than yourself. And please, try to get out more. Aries sun in the 12th house suggests that part of you really needs "down time" to yourself when you can recharge your batteries. I think you would do well volunteering at a hospital or with the elderly. (Capricorn moon-Neptune.) Trust me, there are people out there who would love a friendly word, a smile, a visit.

Then you can build on your experiences to more peers your own age.
 

muchacho

Well-known member
I was always lonely. It's about friends, love and family. I have parents but we were not so close. As a kid I really wanted to have a lot of frinds but I never had. I tried but finally I gave up and I accepted that. And it's ok but sometimes it's just sad. So I wonder where in my chart we can see that? Saturn square Venus probably, but what else? Can I change that?
I'm not sure if Mercury and Jupiter should be in 11th or 12th house. Someone asked me questions and told it's 11th. I hope so but im't not sure about that.
PS. Which planet is the strongest in my chart?
With Sun in 12th and especially Moon in Capricorn you're not going to make friends easily because you prefer to be on your own. Which is neither good nor bad per se.
 

sibylline

Well-known member
Like others mentioned, your chart shows some loner tendencies. At the same time it may also be a confidence issue because with your chart ruler Venus in the 11th you may want to reach out to people but in Pisces and close square Saturn, connected to Cap Moon conjunct Neptune, you may be sensitive, hard on yourself and feel like you'll fail so be reluctant to try... What happens when you try to reach out to people that you can never keep friends??
 

noraleader

Banned
so you're just past your first saturn return.. i generally think it is astute to make friends in activities you enjoy, perhaps it is the time to find new activities? hiking or sports (ultimate frisbee? martial arts? tai chi?) as it's good to establish some regime of movement before your body starts to age.

it's worth doing before you get any older and lonelier, and the spirits start saying "aah, here is a real loner we can speak to!" spirits rarely talk sense, why should they?

:)
 

Osamenor

Staff member
I'm not sure if Mercury and Jupiter should be in 11th or 12th house. Someone asked me questions and told it's 11th. I hope so but im't not sure about that.
Depends on which house system you use. Porphyry places them in the eleventh. By whole sign, they're in the twelfth. If you play with other house systems, you might get different results.

Whenever I see a planet in one house in one system and another house in another system, I look at where the meanings of those two houses overlap. The eleventh and twelfth houses both have to do with who you become in the long run, the legacy you ultimately leave, and who/what helps you get there. The eleventh house is called the House of Friends because friends are people who help you get where you're going: like minded people who pursue similar goals.

That may not always be true in personal friendships. A personal friend may be someone whose company you enjoy, but don't necessarily share common goals with. They might be someone you share a hobby with, but not serious longterm goals. That kind of friendship is better indicated by the fifth and/or seventh house. When the houses were named, the word friend meant something closer to associate. That meaning has changed over time, but the names of the houses have been kept the same.

Twelfth house has less to do with individuals and more with society as a whole. It represents long ago ancestors--not the grandparents and other ancestors you knew, but the ones who died before you were born, and the legacy you inherited probably without knowing. It represents who you are when you become an ancestor, what you're remembered for. It also represents society as a whole, and spirit, what is beyond society.

With a twelfth house sun, you're likely to be drawn to mystical and spiritual things (even if you prefer not to call them that). You might feel disconnected from the world, because you're so connected to the other world. But you also have great potential to be a symbol that others respond to. Many famous performers and elected leaders have very busy twelfth houses, or twelfth house suns, or both.

Your chart as a whole looks like someone naturally inclined to be solitary a decent amount of the time (Capricorn moon, Taurus rising, twelfth house sun). To connect with others, you would most likely need to be doing something that brings solitary people together....

i generally think it is astute to make friends in activities you enjoy, perhaps it is the time to find new activities? hiking or sports (ultimate frisbee? martial arts? tai chi?) as it's good to establish some regime of movement before your body starts to age.

:)
I second this, and especially second the recommendation of tai chi. I've been practicing for years, and it's not only good exercise (and the rare kind that you can't get too old for--old tai chi players who've been at it for decades are many times better at it than 20-year-olds) it's solitary and social at the same time. Being in a tai chi class with others is an interaction in and of itself, even if you never speak to them personally. You can practice both in a group and alone. It's a spiritual practice, too, a kind of moving meditation, which fits very well with both eleventh and twelfth house themes.

It would also, I think, fulfill your sun, moon, and rising sign needs, and if those needs are being met, you're bound to be happy. Aries needs challenges in order to thrive. Capricorn is driven to accomplish something, and when it's in the ninth house, it's also about the process of learning. Taurus is a very physical sign... with Taurus rising, your spiritual inclinations are likely to need a physical form of expression. Just sitting on a cushion meditating won't do for you.

If you don't actually have any interest in tai chi, maybe a different but similar art would do the trick.
so you're just past your first saturn return..
Not just past, approaching. Natal Saturn is at 20 degrees Sag, and transiting Saturn hasn't quite gotten there yet. It's currently at 15 Sagittarius.
 

anaiis

Active member
Thank you all! You are so nice :smile:

Yes, I like to by by myself but I like to be among people too. Sometimes I don't feel comfortable in social situations but it is still nice.

I'm accualy overoptimistic but sometimes there is a day when i am very pessimistic. It passes quickly anyway.

It's not like people do not like me in general. It is rather my attitude. I refuse to hanging out and I do not like to be too close. So maybe here is the question- am I able to be more open and friendly.

The old rule for making friends is to look for people lonelier than yourself. (...) I think you would do well volunteering at a hospital or with the elderly. (Capricorn moon-Neptune.) Trust me, there are people out there who would love a friendly word, a smile, a visit.

This is so good advice! I never heard that before. It would be really nice to reach out to someone who really needs it. I'm not so charitable to be volunteer in place like this, but I met many people who seemed lonely. Just in school etc.

What happens when you try to reach out to people that you can never keep friends??

Well, we have a nice talk but we don't talk again too soon.

The eleventh house is called the House of Friends because friends are people who help you get where you're going: like minded people who pursue similar goals.


People likes to offer me some favours (like job, place to stay, some help) but i am not really good at using that.

If you don't actually have any interest in tai chi, maybe a different but similar art would do the trick.


How about yoga?
 
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Osamenor

Staff member
How about yoga?

If that's what interests you, sure.

I speak from experience about tai chi being social. It's very much so in the tai chi organization I belong to. I don't know if you would find the same in yoga, but it's certainly possible.
 

noraleader

Banned
i discretise between yoga and tai chi and similar practices (yi jin jing is a very simple exercise) .. while both maintain health, tai chi keeps you on your feet.. for the person "on their feet and in the world.." yoga is healthy but imo more about tuning the body for higher awareness.

both are good practice and yoga is very social for some people eg. in the united states.


this may be a very narrow interpretation of society but i am earnest.. especially as you are young, people like to give you opportunities.. make sure you establish a career or valuable trade.. (i hate to see myself saying that!) as you get older, and society sees you less as a potential baby maker, you may become more disposable, suddenly find employers don't want you, have a difficult time finding any employer.. if your nation has a good social net, maybe not so bad, but in the united states, this can be a death sentence, and often is, but society will never notice.
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Hi Anaiis,

I think I can shed some light on what you are going through. You are basically having some adjustment issues related to your soul goals and plans in this life. My hope is that when I describe your situation, you will do better with the plan. Your soul plan messages are repeated strongly throughout your chart.

I practice karmic astrology which focuses upon the soul map, current life plans and patterns from past lives. We don’t really know if the past lives are literal, or simply metaphoric stories. Certainly past lives could be coded material in our natal chart, just like all of astrology is coded material giving us information about ourselves and life circumstances.

If your birth time is accurate, then in Karmic Astrology, we don’t move planets around. We play it as it lays. A great deal of time and effort goes into choosing the time and place of birth so that it reflects our soul plan in this life, so it does not make sense to start moving the pieces around.

With a 12 house Sun, it appears that you were quite well known in past lives. You received a lot of accolades and adoration from the general public. However in this life, you have chosen to go behind the scenes, and have a low key life, in order to balance the fame from the past. You will not receive the attention or recognition as you did in past lives. This anonymity may feel sad to you on a deep level, but it is what your soul has chosen in your current life.

This story is reinforced by your SN in the 5th house. This is someone who wielded a great deal of power over others, but used the power for self gain. There were power struggles and self centered control of the group. This is a soul who exhibited a great deal of pride in past lives, and the goal in this life will be to learn humility and cooperation within the needs of wider society. To your credit, we can see with the Sun’s easy contacts to Uranus and Saturn that you were self disciplined, and had streaks of genius and originality.

With the SN in Libra, we can see that while this soul wielded quite a bit of power used for self gain, it was also at the mercy of some sort of group of friends, family, etc. There was enmeshment in that group that was not healthy. The goal of this SN is to develop in your own right, not based on what others want and need. A goal is harmony with self and other.

The Cap Moon is an indictor of past lives, and here we can see that your position was an inherited one. Most likely some sort of aristocracy or nobility, a family inherited position in the higher echelons of power. This echoes the 5h house SN (Leo influence). This is a soul who was born into a family who emphasized duty, responsibility, and allegiance to authority figures. While material wealth was there, the family was cold and distant. Development of innate talents and interests was not permitted. Depression and or chronic illness were prevalent in this family. This is further emphasized by the Moon/Nep conjunction. A goal will be too overcome these tendencies and to develop emotional self sufficiency.

A NN in the 11 house means that a primary goal for you in this life is to change things, to help humanity. This is a soul who wants to make a more fair and equal world community. It is important that you work with a group towards this goal, be be cooperative and not take ego centric control of the group. I suggest that perhaps you look for some volunteer work that would reflect these goals and it would also be a way to meet people and make friends.

The Sun and NN in Aries is telling you that it is important in this life for you to develop the Self, but in an unselfish way. You are to develop your unique individuality and show it to the world. The goal is to become your Higher Self, not the self focused one. You are to learn harmony and cooperation with others, but not enmeshment as in the past. You have tremendous courage and an ability to initiate projects and get them moving, but will need to watch a tendency to mow over others. The goal in this life will be to use personal power for the collective good.

Your chart is emphasizing that you learn about your higher Self in this life. The focus is more about you developing and inner reliance and independence, and that may feel lonely to you. Relationships are still important, but the focus will be upon you learning to take care of yourself.

We can see with your Mars/Chiron conjunct that you have been working on overcoming a wound to your will, and now have the ability to be a dynamic force with the ability to energize others.
 

anaiis

Active member
Thank you Julia Karmic Astrology! You are very helpful. It is fascinating. I work in the arts and I don't know yet what can I do for the collective good but I'll try to do my best.

If that's what interests you, sure.

I speak from experience about tai chi being social. It's very much so in the tai chi organization I belong to. I don't know if you would find the same in yoga, but it's certainly possible.

i discretise between yoga and tai chi and similar practices (yi jin jing is a very simple exercise) .. while both maintain health, tai chi keeps you on your feet.. for the person "on their feet and in the world.." yoga is healthy but imo more about tuning the body for higher awareness.

both are good practice and yoga is very social for some people eg. in the united states.


Thank you. I'll try yoga first :)
 
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Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Thank you Julia Karmic Astrology! You are very helpful. It is fascinating. I work in the arts and I don't know yet what can I do for the collective good but I'll try to do my best.

Working in the arts is a perfect place to make a contribution to the collective good.
Art feeds the soul. Provides peace, beauty, stimulation, comfort, etc.

Edited to add, with your Venus in Pisces and part of your NN 11 house stellium, the arts make perfect sense.
Feels dreamy and romantic type energy.
 
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anaiis

Active member
Working in the arts is a perfect place to make a contribution to the collective good.
Art feeds the soul. Provides peace, beauty, stimulation, comfort, etc.

Edited to add, with your Venus in Pisces and part of your NN 11 house stellium, the arts make perfect sense.
Feels dreamy and romantic type energy.

Thanks again :)
 

Slytherin88

Well-known member
I have had the same problem as you. I have always tried to make friends, but never achieved that. Even in my darkest moments, I was always alone. So, I also gave up.
I've noticed that you too have the Saturn in the 8th house. That indicated deep loneliness and isolation. But, that also my indicate long life, so it's not that bad in the end.
 

anaiis

Active member
I have had the same problem as you. I have always tried to make friends, but never achieved that. Even in my darkest moments, I was always alone. So, I also gave up.
I've noticed that you too have the Saturn in the 8th house. That indicated deep loneliness and isolation. But, that also my indicate long life, so it's not that bad in the end.


Haha long life in loneliness and isolation, how great :lol::tongue:
Well, don't give up! I decided to try again (but not too hard) with better attitude and I believe it would be ok.
 

Slytherin88

Well-known member
-The house saturn is, indicates the area of life ,which will be restricted. Saturn makes you work really hard in that area of life until you master it. Since, Saturn is in your 8th house ,that means that ,birth,rebirth,sex and death will be restricted from your life. People with the saturn in the 8th house have a harder time changing themselves and usually suffer from some sort of addictions(whether mental or real addictions).All I know from this position is from this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEU6jIDu6Ag .
Though,skip the first two minutes. She'll explain all you need to know about it.
 
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