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Horary Astrology Ask and answer any horary questions, and discuss theory and technique. Please post a chart of the time, date, and place you asked the question. Please do not ask the same question repeatedly, hoping for a different result: horary works best when you ask the question ONCE and then interpret the chart that results from when the question FIRST came into your mind. Horary forums are ONLY for discussion of horary charts and techniques.


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  #1  
Unread 06-18-2020, 07:15 PM
Januarystorm Januarystorm is offline
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is this mans father alive?

i did a little chart reading for a friend of a friend, he found out i was studying astrology and asked me to look at his chart, i did and of because so many of the things i told him resonated with him, he decided to ask me if i could see in the chart wether his father, whom he had never met (he was raised without parents in a children's home from the moment he was born almost) was still alive. well i have no idea how to see this in a natal chart, i dont even know if its possible to see such things, so i told him that i didnt know but i could do a horary chart if he wanted, he didnt understand what that was obviously but that doesnt matter ehm so. i made the chart, but i really do not have any experience whatsoever in determining such things to be honest so any help here is very much appreciated!

so i know one thing, the sun does signify father, the sun is almost conjunct the north node, this must be the answer here but i dont know wether the node means yes he is alive or no he is not

i understand this is a serious subject so i dont just want to go on my best guess here, i truly want to help him out because he seemed to be so hopeful on astrology to give him the answer he has been looking for for quite some years now....what do you guys think?
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  #2  
Unread 06-19-2020, 12:06 AM
swanswings swanswings is offline
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Re: is this mans father alive?

An ideal horary question is one which is personal to you and directly related to you. In this case, you have “a friend of a friend” who is asking about someone who squirted sperm but in no way was his father. So what house applies to the “friend of a friend” and to someone who was a total stranger?

How ironic that you ask this question on the day that Mercury went Retrograde, that the question was asked during the hour of Mercury, and that Mercury was “under the beams,” i.e., within 17° of the Sun.

If you knew the time that the friend of a friend asked the question, that chart might show him as the querent, and might provide another perspective. Even so, the idea of “fatherֲ” applies to someone who was actively involved in his life.
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Unread 06-19-2020, 04:33 AM
Januarystorm Januarystorm is offline
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Re: is this mans father alive?

so first about this ideal horary question you are mentioning, horary astrology has been used by astrologers for hundreds of years now, they drew charts for people (clients) that they did not personally know, about subjects they had no particular personal or direct involvement with...the chart does not change because someone has personal involvement with the matter...the question and timing is what is important, the chart answers the question asked

now about the timing of the chart:
The 17th century horary astrologer William Lilly wrote that in the case of receiving a horary question in the mail, we are to cast the chart for the time (and presumably the location) that we open the letter and read the question:

“… that very hour and minute of hour when I break it open, and perceive the intention of the Querent, is the time to which I ought to erect my Figure, and from thence to draw mine Astrological Judgment.” (Lilly, Christian Astrology [1647], p. 166).


now in my case i made the chart about two to three minutes after having been asked the question, those minutes in between the question asked and electing the chart were spent telling the person i did not know how to determine the death of someone using another persons natal chart, and getting a spontaneous thought of doing a horary chart, which i then instantly did, because i was already on astro.com looking at this persons natal chart, it took me exactly five seconds to do so.

so another little tidbit i would want to share with you about this is a little piece by Geoffrey Cornelius, who wrote the following in his seminal work The Moment of Astrology:

“The what of the horary moment is not simply the posing of a significant question. It is the posing of a significant question to an astrologer, with the explicit intention that this question shall be subject to astrological judgement. ... The whole project depends upon the participation and mutual intentions of astrologer and client.” (Cornelius, The Moment of Astrology [1994], pp. 117-118).
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Unread 06-19-2020, 04:38 AM
Januarystorm Januarystorm is offline
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Re: is this mans father alive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swanswings View Post
An ideal horary question is one which is personal to you and directly related to you. In this case, you have “a friend of a friend” who is asking about someone who squirted sperm but in no way was his father. So what house applies to the “friend of a friend” and to someone who was a total stranger?

How ironic that you ask this question on the day that Mercury went Retrograde, that the question was asked during the hour of Mercury, and that Mercury was “under the beams,” i.e., within 17° of the Sun.

If you knew the time that the friend of a friend asked the question, that chart might show him as the querent, and might provide another perspective. Even so, the idea of “fatherֲ” applies to someone who was actively involved in his life.
ah yes, forgot the final thing i wanted to mention, the idea of father applies to someones father, biological father in this case, he asked about father- the chart then must be seen as him actually meaning for what he said to be taken literally- i hope this makes sense to you as this is all pretty logical
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Unread 06-19-2020, 03:49 PM
swanswings swanswings is offline
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Re: is this mans father alive?

Beneficent well-being to you and all whom you love.

First, I use whole sign houses.

Second, here is another quote from Lilly:

Christian Astrology, Book II. Whether the Child conceived is the Sonne of him who is reputed his Father.

Behold the Lord of the Ascendant and the Moon, who signifie the Interrogant; then observe the Signe of the 11th and his Lord, these signifie the issue in Conception; if these Significators behold one another by Trifle or Sextile, with Reception or not, the Conception is legitimate; if they behold one another with Square or Opposition, with mutual Reception, and perfect aspect, or the Lord of the Ascendant or the Moon in the 5th, or if the Lord of the 5th be in the Ascendant, without evill aspect of the Infortunes, or if the Fortunes one or both doe behold the 5th house or his Lord, the Child conceived is legitimate and true begotten, &c. but if none of these things be, but that Saturn, Mars or Mercury behold the 5th house, or Lord thereof, there may be just suspicion the Child is conceived in adultery, and the Mother was stuprated.


The 11TH also refers to friend.

Does the 11th from the 11th become the “friend of a friend” ? That would be the 9th. In this case, the 9th has Leo on the cusp.

So, as an exercise in speculation, here is a chart with Leo on the cusp of the 1st, with the question, “Is my father alive?”

https://imgur.com/pF5utET

In horary, the 4th refers to the querent’s father. We see Scorpio on the cusp with Mars in the 8th (death). Mars in Pisces is ruled by Jupiter in the 6th house of grief and sorrow.

Jupiter Rx is peregrine and in fall (and is close conjunct Pluto).

And finally, Mars is square the Sun.

So, what do you think, is the father “dead” ?

More importantly, the man’s question may point to deep feelings of loss, sorrow, and grief, and whatever kindnesses you may offer him may be the gift which brings comfort and reassurance.

https://imgur.com/tPAIRDf

With reverent respect,

S

Last edited by swanswings; 06-19-2020 at 03:51 PM. Reason: typo
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  #6  
Unread 06-19-2020, 04:48 PM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: is this mans father alive?

hi,
since he asked the question, he is is signified by Asc-ruler Jupiter and his father is L4 Mars. Mars is well dignified and applies to a sextile with Jupiter. Receptions are good. Part of fortune lies in the 8th house of the father. Moon is voc, which means: nothing to worry here. Yes, the father is still alive.
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Unread 06-19-2020, 05:13 PM
swanswings swanswings is offline
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Re: is this mans father alive?

Some additions.

In the chart that you cast, the Moon is in the 12th from the Sun — the motherless child — and the Moon was 2° from Algol (feeling depressed and sad without knowing why).

Finally, recasting the chart in sidereal (using Krishnamurti ayanamsa), the Moon was in the lunar mansion Krittika, pada 3. Krittika is associated with Agni, the God of Fire — i.e., Dahana Shakti, the power to burn away negativity to get to the deepest truth.

Again, it is your compassionate kindness which may be the deep reason for him asking you this question.

Met gratie en liefdevolle vriendelijkheid,

S
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Unread 06-20-2020, 01:34 AM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: is this mans father alive?

Because swanswings mentioned it I also analysed the chart with kp and here the result is quite clear for me-the father does not live anymore.
In the tropical chart above my explanation would be that the last moon (L8) aspect was to Jupiter and Mars. Since the 8th house of the father is already represented by Mars, we use Mars' dispositor, which is Jupiter. Also, as swans mentioned, Jupiter is in conjunction with Pluto and Mars in square with Sun.
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Unread 06-24-2020, 06:53 AM
Januarystorm Januarystorm is offline
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Re: is this mans father alive?

thank you guys so much for helping, i will tell him that in all probability, although never for one hundred percent, the chart indicated his father is no longer with us.

i understand your logic as well- especially the disposition of jupiter being conjunct pluto...BUT one final last question if you dont mind..does rahu have anything to do with this? the sun is so closely conjunct with it...sun does symbolize the father....perhaps this indicates the karma tied to the father...obviously here there was heavy karma involved...

again my deepest appreciation for taking the time to look at this
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Unread 06-24-2020, 07:53 AM
kalinka kalinka is offline
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Re: is this mans father alive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Januarystorm View Post
thank you guys so much for helping, i will tell him that in all probability, although never for one hundred percent, the chart indicated his father is no longer with us.

i understand your logic as well- especially the disposition of jupiter being conjunct pluto...BUT one final last question if you dont mind..does rahu have anything to do with this? the sun is so closely conjunct with it...sun does symbolize the father....perhaps this indicates the karma tied to the father...obviously here there was heavy karma involved...

again my deepest appreciation for taking the time to look at this
that's interesting that you were saying that and indeed Sun and Rahu have something to do with his dead, especially in the vedic system. Sun is the natural significator of the father and we always look at the Sun's condition for the death of the father.the Sun beeing peregrine, voc and conjunct the NN truely looks like he's not alive anymore.
In The Rashi chart Sun is likewise L10, occupies the radical 8th and in conjunction with Rahu is a clear indicator that he's dead. Moreover Saturn sits in the 9th house from the moon, which means that he maybe died when the querent was 6 or 18 years old.
In the bhava chart (stellar system) the significator of the father and his death is Rahu and Rahu's Sublord is Sun. Both planets strongly signify the father's "dead houses" (7,3,10). In addition, this is underlined by the fact that the chart is under Sun Mahadasha, which started in 2016.So he probably died within the last 4 years. I guess in September/October 2018 in Sun MD,Rahu AD and Mars Pratyantara Dasha.Mars is the Starlord of Sun and Rahu.

Last edited by kalinka; 06-24-2020 at 10:03 AM.
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  #11  
Unread 06-24-2020, 05:34 PM
Januarystorm Januarystorm is offline
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Re: is this mans father alive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinka View Post
that's interesting that you were saying that and indeed Sun and Rahu have something to do with his dead, especially in the vedic system. Sun is the natural significator of the father and we always look at the Sun's condition for the death of the father.the Sun beeing peregrine, voc and conjunct the NN truely looks like he's not alive anymore.
In The Rashi chart Sun is likewise L10, occupies the radical 8th and in conjunction with Rahu is a clear indicator that he's dead. Moreover Saturn sits in the 9th house from the moon, which means that he maybe died when the querent was 6 or 18 years old.
In the bhava chart (stellar system) the significator of the father and his death is Rahu and Rahu's Sublord is Sun. Both planets strongly signify the father's "dead houses" (7,3,10). In addition, this is underlined by the fact that the chart is under Sun Mahadasha, which started in 2016.So he probably died within the last 4 years. I guess in September/October 2018 in Sun MD,Rahu AD and Mars Pratyantara Dasha.Mars is the Starlord of Sun and Rahu.
wow, now i really see it too. thank you so much for helping, i truly appreciate it!
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