tikana
Well-known member
i think we covered this aspect..
No one says George deserved to die regardless of his past.
I am still standing firm on 2nd degree murder.
Nothing in the chart (i am saying this again) points to he wanted George dead.
Did the cop want to kill George Floyd?
- Thread starter Ukpoohbear
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i think we covered this aspect..
No one says George deserved to die regardless of his past.
I am still standing firm on 2nd degree murder.
Nothing in the chart (i am saying this again) points to he wanted George dead.
Dirius
Well-known member
Jup cannot be a victim because it doesnt describe George at all
Jup in cap - tall and bony.
That fits the cop
-face long and slender face.
-shorter than victim due to saturn retro and jup retro ..jup being in fall. Look in william lillys 3rd volume in christian astrology, where lilly talks about rectification.
Merc does describe George quite well.
- not only physically
- merc is void - no longer alive
- also if you look at health issues with gemini you get "bad blood"
- venus in gemini gives 6'6 statue to George and big built
The Ascendant describes the person who asked the question - not anyone else. We also already know the physical appearence of the people involved - which is known to not always properly describe people (unless the question does require so). Using physical description as a method to identify the quesited does not really work, given the large majority of charts don't usually reflect the person's physical appearence if the person is known to the querent. Also in this regard, any sign/planet combination could then be used to describe either of them.
The quesited is the Cop. What is the cop's relationship to the querent?
There are only two choices:
someone the querent has no relation to -> seventh house.
a representative from the state -> tenth house.
There are no other options.
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tikana
Well-known member
they were co-workers .. supposedly they were bouncers at the club at the same time.
cop is a servant of hte state paid by our tax money. so cop is our serf.
david starling
Well-known member
Dumb cop, NOT homicidal cop, appears to be somewhat of a consensus.
ameliaastrology
Well-known member
Dirius, Aquarius now says that this is an event, so Houlding's teachings apply. This is despite the fact that the chart wasn't cast at any time/location in any way derived from the event itself: not the time the death happened, not the time the cop arrived the scene, etc. Using this new, broader definition, any horary chart cast after the event could be an event chart: break-up chart, job application chart, anything, because it concerns "an event". I honestly don't know what I can possibly say to this you know, except a marriage chart isn't read like a "will our marriage work/will we marry" horary chart that much I know. The signification and aspects are simply understood differently.Honey, you went full Karen when we asked for sources, so we could discuss your method. You made a scandal just to avoid answering a simple question on your methodology.
So I'll ask again: sources?
But if you and Aquarius won't even agree on this, what do you think you can say astrologically that can possibly convince her? This is a lost cause.
Amelia
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Dirius
Well-known member
I'm not sure if UKPoohbear, who asked the question, is an american citizen/resident - if she is not, the cop can't can be considered her "serf"; to be fair this would make the tenth also unavailable.
Safest bet in my opinion, is the seventh, which is default: another person to whom the querent has no relation.
david starling
Well-known member
Isn't it possible that an event chart could provide the answer to the question posed by the OP? And, shouldn't that answer be in agreement with the Horary result?
david starling
Well-known member
Dirius, I seem to recall you saying that horary works only when the querent has a direct, personal stake in the matter. That doesn't appear to be the case here.
ameliaastrology
Well-known member
A marriage chart can show how a marriage works as much as a horary chart does, but the significators and aspects are all understood differently viz, you don't need an aspect between bride and groom in a marriage chart to know that they were married, but in a horary chart "will I marry him" you more often than not need meaningful connections between the principal significators to judge that this pair will indeed marry. The moon and venus would also carry different meanings in a marriage chart than in a horary chart.
In a horary chart "will our marriage work" you likewise want meaningful connections between the principal significators. In a marriage chart it's done slightly differently.
Amelia
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
The short answer is "not necessarily"
Horary and Event ARE DIFFERENT METHODOLOGIES
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Dirius
Well-known member
I'm not sure I've ever used those words.
I don't think people should ask questions if the they are not involved in the matter, because there is no way of knowing if they really care about the question, or if they are simply asking for the sake of asking (which can render the chart useless).
david starling
Well-known member
It related to politics, and asking about who would win an election. So, if you, yourself were a candidate, or someone close to you was, asking in horary would be appropriate; and, otherwise, not appropriate.
tikana
Well-known member
David,
Nina Gryphon who is a well known horarist didnt mind running a question on Madeleine McCann,, we are talking 3rd party questions
http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/20...ssing-people-is-madeleine-mccann-still-alive/
Dirius, notice she used Madeleine as 1st house.
Tik
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ameliaastrology
Well-known member
Tikana, this is a missing person case you quoted. There was a very specific rule William Lilly devised for missing-person cases (unless the missing person was related to the querent) that said the missing person was always the first house.
I think Dirius' major point is that idle curiosity is not a good reason to cast a chart. Ultimately, third-party or not, I think it's whether the querent genuinely cares about the question that matters.
Amelia
tikana
Well-known member
he didnt expect this thing to blow. Besides Minneapolis PD does everything to shield their officers. Chauvin assaulted a woman during a regular over 10 miles per hour limit stop. People were watching a recording a black man dying in the hands of a white cop while the witnesses were threatned with a pepper spray and were lied to another witness that George was fine.. And to make it worse, there is a recording where an ambulance does not know why George went into cardiac arrest. No one tells them that they were cutting off access to oxygen. If before we didnt have a video filmed by eye witnesses from the minute of an arrest to what was said including threads, now we do. Police intimidated and threatned the witnesses. Its not heresay.
That is why Jup is surrounded with Pluto and Saturn while being in fall and retro and in 2nd house.
tikana
Well-known member
Amelia
That is why we validate the charts. We have to validate the asce and its ruler. Does asce/asce ruler describe the person?
I was looking for a grave of a person and see what shape is it. I got an interesting answer. Yes it is in tact, poor condition (most likely plundered). It wont be found. My questin was curiousity q and 3rd party and I wouldnt get involved.
Nina wasnt looking for Madeleine. It would be a curiosity question as well
Nina and Madeleine are not related.
my problem with 3rd party charts is "can you directly influence the situation? if no, dont run it."
Did he want to kill George q is highly speculative. That is what courts are for.
INterestingly enough, it perfectly describes both people perfectly.
Tik
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Ukpoohbear
Well-known member
tikana
Well-known member
I am neither tall and bony or corrupt.
asce is not you.
ameliaastrology
Well-known member
UKpoohbear - please see that what I'm about to say is said in good humour, not to object to anything you said, or to continue any debate on the first house:
I only want to point out that in most charts, if the ascendant didn't describe the querent, William Lilly would doubt if the chart was valid to start with. Of course we can always check if our chart has hour agreement and other considerations to decide.
Amelia
I only want to point out that in most charts, if the ascendant didn't describe the querent, William Lilly would doubt if the chart was valid to start with. Of course we can always check if our chart has hour agreement and other considerations to decide.
Amelia
Dirius
Well-known member
From a technical point of view, if you are voting in an an election, you are involved, and the result does have an impact on your life.
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