Violence in a natal chart

graay ghost

Well-known member
The angular planets in your chart offer an apt astrological description of the upbringing you describe.

Beyond that the potential is there for aggressive behavior when they are activated. The charts show potential, not mandatory, behavior. Some children raised in an alcoholic environment become alcoholics, others, terrified or disgusted by their experience, choose not to consume alcohol at all, still others drink moderately.

I have a first house Mars and have always enjoyed physically demanding work. This past winter, at the age of 74, I bought a snow shovel so I could shovel for my neighbors and helped the handyman when he came to shovel the walk in a building next to mine (I had already shoveled the walk for my building and did so for the rest of the winter). I think it was my stepfather's influence in my life that helped me channel that Mars placement.

I don't know. It's a grand cross with Mars, Saturn, Pluto, and Mercury, so I had a pet theory that that all of this would rather be expressed through Mercury as it's the fastest-moving and most, I guess, "delicate" planet involved.

My dad kept telling me over and over again how he hated when people played dumb with him/others to get people to like them so he kept telling me to never play dumb because it was really annoying. So I stopped playing dumb and showed him how smart I really am, and now he wants to disown me. You'd think people would be more careful in thinking about if they really want what they ask for, but apparently not.
 
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positivevibes

Well-known member
I knew a girl who had Mercury square Mars, Mars square Jupiter and Pluto, she was also a Scorpio Ascendant. She also had Sun and Mercury in the 8th house (the house of Pluto), I didn't know much about them as they were private and were also not around much of the time, but when I was with them, they were one of the most meekest, quiet and kind people. Also rather shy. So when I saw her chart I was astonished because I could never imagine the kind of behaviour suggested by those aspects to come from her. Again, I didn't know what this person was like in her day to day life as I only knew them at college. But yeah, you do need to look at the person before you judge based on aspects.

What was her Moon and Mercury in?

I know a guy with A Taurus Moon(Super laid back) Mercury and Venus in Gemini(Witty,Smart and Funny) Ascendant in Libra(Pretty boy type) and was soooo cool and unassuming

But he had 1st house Pluto that opposed his Moon,Mars square Mercury,Uranus,Saturn and was really violent when mad,actually when he got mad and beat people up,people were so shocked because they never thought he had that side in him.
 

positivevibes

Well-known member
I don't know. It's a grand cross with Mars, Saturn, Pluto, and Mercury, so I had a pet theory that that all of this would rather be expressed through Mercury as it's the fastest-moving and most, I guess, "delicate" planet involved.

My dad kept telling me over and over again how he hated when people played dumb with him/others to get people to like them so he kept telling me to never play dumb because it was really annoying. So I stopped playing dumb and showed him how smart I really am, and now he wants to disown me. You'd think people would be more careful in thinking about if they really want what they ask for, but apparently not.

Disown you? Wow sorry to hear that
 

graay ghost

Well-known member
Disown you? Wow sorry to hear that

Yeah, apparently showing him that I had caught wise to his emotionally abusive tactics and was more difficult to manipulate than everyone else around him was not what he had in mind when he said he liked "intelligence." It's weird how many people mistake people agreeing with you as "intelligence."

I would not say Mars square Mercury is violent, or even dominating. It's more... argumentative. The idea that arguing is "bad" varies by culture and subculture. A gentler, sensitive soul might not get it, I don't know.
 

ravenscall

Well-known member
What was her Moon and Mercury in?

I know a guy with A Taurus Moon(Super laid back) Mercury and Venus in Gemini(Witty,Smart and Funny) Ascendant in Libra(Pretty boy type) and was soooo cool and unassuming

But he had 1st house Pluto that opposed his Moon,Mars square Mercury,Uranus,Saturn and was really violent when mad,actually when he got mad and beat people up,people were so shocked because they never thought he had that side in him.
She had Moon in Libra in the 11th and Mercury in Gemini, also in the 8th with the Sun.

Yeah, that Libra Ascendant and Taurus Moon, and even the Gemini can mask the shadier and darker influences in a chart. It's only when they're triggered do they come out. People are dual in nature; in my opinion, whether the harder aspects are there or not, any human has the potential to be violent. Transits especially and progressions can draw things out.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Mercury square or opposition to Mars makes people quick-witted, sharp and alert, quick-tempered, impulsive and excitable, liable to jump at conclusions and act before they think....

I know someone with that aspect,and what the author wrote is almost exactly correct,who knows tho,so much depends on one's whole chart,because I'm pretty sure there are people with Merc/Mars hard aspect who has never showed those tendencies

I have that aspect--Mercury/Mars square--and that doesn't really describe me. I am good with words, and most likely to be verbally aggressive if I'm aggressive at all, which I'm usually not. Quick witted, sharp and alert? Maybe I am sometimes. Quick-tempered, impulsive, and excitable? Not very impulsive, although I think it's because I think faster than I act. Liable to jump at conclusions and act before thinking? Only when I'm under extreme stress, in my experience. Stressful situations make my thinking shut down.

Now here are the placements: I have Mars in Gemini and Mercury in Virgo. Slow, practical Virgo in square with quick witted Gemini, both ruled by Mercury. Mercury in Virgo is very detail oriented, needs to think things through. Mars in Gemini strikes me as a very impulsive placement. I think if I didn't have anything putting the brakes on, I probably would be much more impulsive. If I look at my chart overall, it seems like there are lots of impulsivity circuits fired up but not connecting.
 

graay ghost

Well-known member
Osamenor, I wish the original text was still visible. It was much longer and essentially said that everyone should stay the hell away from anyone with Mars square Merc :p
 

positivevibes

Well-known member
Yeah, apparently showing him that I had caught wise to his emotionally abusive tactics and was more difficult to manipulate than everyone else around him was not what he had in mind when he said he liked "intelligence." It's weird how many people mistake people agreeing with you as "intelligence."

I would not say Mars square Mercury is violent, or even dominating. It's more... argumentative. The idea that arguing is "bad" varies by culture and subculture. A gentler, sensitive soul might not get it, I don't know.

Yes people who are really manipulative HATE when they come across someone they can't manipulate and will think for themselves.

Mars square Mercury,I would say isn't "Physically" Violent,but it could very well give one Violent thoughts
 

positivevibes

Well-known member
She had Moon in Libra in the 11th and Mercury in Gemini, also in the 8th with the Sun.

Yeah, that Libra Ascendant and Taurus Moon, and even the Gemini can mask the shadier and darker influences in a chart. It's only when they're triggered do they come out. People are dual in nature; in my opinion, whether the harder aspects are there or not, any human has the potential to be violent. Transits especially and progressions can draw things out.

Yep,because those placements mask his "other" side extremely well,one would never know he's capable of violence.

I agree,any human can be violent,just takes the right thing to tick them off,but "How" violent is the question.

But then again I've seen people punched in the face and absolutely do nothing,so not sure if everyone is capable of violence,but I do believe people with hard mars aspects are possibly quicker to use violence
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Osamenor, I wish the original text was still visible. It was much longer and essentially said that everyone should stay the hell away from anyone with Mars square Merc :p

So should people with Mars square Merc stay away from other people with Mars square Merc?

You and I both have it... maybe we actually get along! :biggrin:
 

positivevibes

Well-known member
I have that aspect--Mercury/Mars square--and that doesn't really describe me. I am good with words, and most likely to be verbally aggressive if I'm aggressive at all, which I'm usually not. Quick witted, sharp and alert? Maybe I am sometimes. Quick-tempered, impulsive, and excitable? Not very impulsive, although I think it's because I think faster than I act. Liable to jump at conclusions and act before thinking? Only when I'm under extreme stress, in my experience. Stressful situations make my thinking shut down.

Now here are the placements: I have Mars in Gemini and Mercury in Virgo. Slow, practical Virgo in square with quick witted Gemini, both ruled by Mercury. Mercury in Virgo is very detail oriented, needs to think things through. Mars in Gemini strikes me as a very impulsive placement. I think if I didn't have anything putting the brakes on, I probably would be much more impulsive. If I look at my chart overall, it seems like there are lots of impulsivity circuits fired up but not connecting.

The description for Mars square Merc was ALOT longer,but I think the tighter the square the more the tendencies are there,the looser the square the tendencies might be harder to activate or may take a while to kick in.

Once again you have to look at how tightly or close the planets are in those hard aspects to see how much it affects you.

On one hand we might have a person with a mars square mercury and the orb value of the square is 0,while the other person with that aspect orb value may be 6, the person with the 0 surely will get angry alot quicker and feel those tendencies alot more than the other person
 

Osamenor

Staff member
The description for Mars square Merc was ALOT longer,but I think the tighter the square the more the tendencies are there,the looser the square the tendencies might be harder to activate or may take a while to kick in.

Definitely true for me, then. My square is loose, a 6 degree orb.

However, I've pondered before how my chart looks like it has a lot of latent impulsivity in it, and I see that in myself. I don't say or do half the things I think of saying or doing, because my mind runs faster than my actions. I tend not to act very impulsively, I'm much more likely to get stuck in a rut thinking things through and not taking action. Might be the Virgo/Gemini square between those two impulsive planets.
 

positivevibes

Well-known member
Definitely true for me, then. My square is loose, a 6 degree orb.

However, I've pondered before how my chart looks like it has a lot of latent impulsivity in it, and I see that in myself. I don't say or do half the things I think of saying or doing, because my mind runs faster than my actions. I tend not to act very impulsively, I'm much more likely to get stuck in a rut thinking things through and not taking action. Might be the Virgo/Gemini square between those two impulsive planets.

Could very well be,do you have any other hard mars aspects?
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
Definitely true for me, then. My square is loose, a 6 degree orb.

However, I've pondered before how my chart looks like it has a lot of latent impulsivity in it, and I see that in myself. I don't say or do half the things I think of saying or doing, because my mind runs faster than my actions. I tend not to act very impulsively, I'm much more likely to get stuck in a rut thinking things through and not taking action. Might be the Virgo/Gemini square between those two impulsive planets.

My father is born a couple of days before you and he is the most self-controlled person I know. But he does have a penchant for violence and a volcanic temper.

When he was younger he would beat up kids to a bloody pulp when they got on his nerves. Even his sense of humor was violent -- one time he put some glass in a mud puddle and dared his older brother to run through it... the outcome was not pretty.

These days he isn't liable to bash people's heads in if they upset him but anyone who interacts with him knows that his boundaries are strong and will be enforced.

So not an impulsive guy, but some key planets are different between both the charts (yours and his).
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Could very well be,do you have any other hard mars aspects?

No other squares. Some people looking at my chart have said Mars and Mercury were part of a t-square, because Mercury also squares a conjunction of the moon and Neptune in Sagittarius. However, the moon is definitely out of orb of opposition with Mars--15 degrees--and Neptune is only within orb of opposition if you cast extremely loose orbs. It's at 9 degrees Sag, while Mars is at 0 Gemini.
 

graay ghost

Well-known member
So should people with Mars square Merc stay away from other people with Mars square Merc?

You and I both have it... maybe we actually get along! :biggrin:

Well, let me find the full description. I copy and pasted what was left and found the full description Positivevibes first posted at this site.

It's over 100 words long, so I will try to pare it down to the parts that caught my eye originally...

[...] they are either feared or hated by those who are unfortunate enough to be bound to them by environment; all who can, shun them. They are bullies who are bound either to rule or ruin wherever they are, and they allow no obstacle to stand in their way which can be removed either by force or slander. They are the acme of selfishness, swagger and consummate egotism. The foregoing tendencies may of course be modified by other aspects, but if they are not, such people are a menace to society.[...]

Emphasis mine. :whistling:

Yes people who are really manipulative HATE when they come across someone they can't manipulate and will think for themselves.

Yes, I am very aware of this. However, in such situations, rebellion can stretch beyond simple self-preservation and into moral imperative.

I do wonder if you keep trying to pare down who is truly violent (as in, by tighter orb of 'violent aspects') because of their chart and who is not in an attempt to reassure yourself in your sorting. I feel like I should warn you that life doesn't really work that way. If you just casually look through the charts of some murderers, for example, you'll see that some have these tight, stereotypically "violent" aspects and that many do not. :pouty:

It is not what you have but how you use it, as they say...
 

positivevibes

Well-known member
Well, let me find the full description. I copy and pasted what was left and found the full description Positivevibes first posted at this site.

It's over 100 words long, so I will try to pare it down to the parts that caught my eye originally...



Emphasis mine. :whistling:



Yes, I am very aware of this. However, in such situations, rebellion can stretch beyond simple self-preservation and into moral imperative.

I do wonder if you keep trying to pare down who is truly violent (as in, by tighter orb of 'violent aspects') because of their chart and who is not in an attempt to reassure yourself in your sorting. I feel like I should warn you that life doesn't really work that way. If you just casually look through the charts of some murderers, for example, you'll see that some have these tight, stereotypically "violent" aspects and that many do not. :pouty:

It is not what you have but how you use it, as they say...


No,my whole take on hard mars aspects is not that everyone who has those aspects are violent,pretty sure it's plenty of people with those aspects who never had a physical fight in their life.

And there's people who have no hard mars aspects who probably have been in physical fights alot.

I just think people with hard mars aspects and tight squares/low orbs are the type who will fight back if need be and have no problem doing it,I just believe violence may come more natural to them,even if they never been in a fight,where as people with no mars aspects or loose squares may not be naturally be as quick to use violence if they have to.

Hard mars aspects are not the end all,be all when it comes to violence,but I do think it for sure tells if one can get violent with no second guessing if they have to.
 

positivevibes

Well-known member
My father is born a couple of days before you and he is the most self-controlled person I know. But he does have a penchant for violence and a volcanic temper.

When he was younger he would beat up kids to a bloody pulp when they got on his nerves. Even his sense of humor was violent -- one time he put some glass in a mud puddle and dared his older brother to run through it... the outcome was not pretty.

These days he isn't liable to bash people's heads in if they upset him but anyone who interacts with him knows that his boundaries are strong and will be enforced.

So not an impulsive guy, but some key planets are different between both the charts (yours and his).

What does his chart look like?
 
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