The natal chart all interpretations welcome

Hkk

Account Closed
Also the bit where u said about Capricorn and detail and sag let’s it work out itself is so me too! Amazing 😊and when I do the sag thing it does work out better than when I do the Capricorn thing as the capricorn thing stresses me out and I have zero patience
 

Osamenor

Staff member
I sometimes don’t care and it hurts me to read that I do which is true and I try and deny it to myself as that’s not how I deeply feel Inside.
You feel both ways, and both are equally valid. That's the kind of paradox that birth charts often present us with... again and again and again.

My sag and Leo are roaring inside to come out and at the moment it’s all INSIDE. And I want it OUTSIDE. Just don’t know how. When I’m at work my fire is there especially my roar lol but only at work in my comfort place not anywhere else. And at home I’m very comfortable and completely myself but not completely around all my siblings. I find them difficult to be around and awkward.

You've named it: you need to be somewhere you're comfortable in order to let your fire out. What's the difference between work and home? What makes you more comfortable letting it out at work than anywhere else?

If you can figure that out, you'll know what you would need in other areas of your life to be able to release your fire there.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
At work I’m in leadership so I’m serious but also have fun. I have the balance. Outside of this I’m the outsider. I’m not known I’m not in charge etc I need to find my place within a group without having the title of the boss
Finding your place in the group may be a lifelong journey. North node in the eleventh house. In addition to being the voracious dragon's head, the north node is where you're going in the long run. Not what you already know how to do, necessarily, but what you're learning to do and be. You want more because it's what you lack.

So, we're right back to Leo and Moon. Leo being the performer, your place could be in a group of performers. Maybe you would feel more a part of things if you joined a performing arts group. Community theater, dance, comedy club, whatever kind of performing art interests you.

Even if that group is just one thing you do, even if that's the only place you feel you can be your performer self, just having that space would help that side of you develop. Then you might find it more integrated in other areas of your life, too.
 

Hkk

Account Closed
Finding your place in the group may be a lifelong journey. North node in the eleventh house. In addition to being the voracious dragon's head, the north node is where you're going in the long run. Not what you already know how to do, necessarily, but what you're learning to do and be. You want more because it's what you lack.

So, we're right back to Leo and Moon. Leo being the performer, your place could be in a group of performers. Maybe you would feel more a part of things if you joined a performing arts group. Community theater, dance, comedy club, whatever kind of performing art interests you.

Even if that group is just one thing you do, even if that's the only place you feel you can be your performer self, just having that space would help that side of you develop. Then you might find it more integrated in other areas of your life, too.

That’s amazing advice! I’m gonna look into this. I was looking at registering as an extra but never did it but I’m going to ‘bite the bullet’’ And go for it!
 

Blaze

Account Closed
Moon conjunct North node. Second time I've seen that, but yours, Hkk, is further away than the other guys I saw. Again, its difficult to predict how this is playing out due to an accurate time of birth at the moment, but I'd say Osa is spot on with the 11th house interpretation.

I wonder if you feel more comfy being in the boss situations, due to the control you feel, yet, uncomfortable during social scenes, because of the lack of perceived control. Not calling you a control freak btw, just saying that work environments are much more....controlled and predictable than social scenes.

Going by this chart, how was your home life? Mars in playing for your team an its exalt so that should be...favorable.
 

Hkk

Account Closed
Moon conjunct North node. Second time I've seen that, but yours, Hkk, is further away than the other guys I saw. Again, its difficult to predict how this is playing out due to an accurate time of birth at the moment, but I'd say Osa is spot on with the 11th house interpretation.

I wonder if you feel more comfy being in the boss situations, due to the control you feel, yet, uncomfortable during social scenes, because of the lack of perceived control. Not calling you a control freak btw, just saying that work environments are much more....controlled and predictable than social scenes.

Going by this chart, how was your home life? Mars in playing for your team an its exalt so that should be...favorable.

I do feel controlled and balanced at work but only in my environment at work. At managers meetings I’m very aloof and I try to come out but it scares me how stubborn I am and inside my head I think the other managers are ..... hate to say this.... beneath me!! That’s the only word I can use and I’m also very shy too. Contradictory I know. I thinks it’s my defence mechanism. In my team I do feel controlled and comfortable and the star of the show and I bring ppl out of themselves and help them to become the best they can be. That’s something I love doing and seeing them change.

At home when I was younger the household was a fiery household. Don’t really want to go into too much detail but it wasn’t the worst but it wasn’t the most pleasant at times. However there were a lot of fun times and as I was the youngest and only girl I was given attention. I have an amazing relationship with my mom. She’s the best 😍😍🥰🥰. My brothers are annoying but they don’t live with us anymore except for one .Now home life is great. I’m not married and still live at home.
 

Blaze

Account Closed
I do feel controlled and balanced at work but only in my environment at work. At managers meetings I’m very aloof and I try to come out but it scares me how stubborn I am and inside my head I think the other managers are ..... hate to say this.... beneath me!! That’s the only word I can use and I’m also very shy too. Contradictory I know. I thinks it’s my defence mechanism. In my team I do feel controlled and comfortable and the star of the show and I bring ppl out of themselves and help them to become the best they can be. That’s something I love doing and seeing them change.

At home when I was younger the household was a fiery household. Don’t really want to go into too much detail but it wasn’t the worst but it wasn’t the most pleasant at times. However there were a lot of fun times and as I was the youngest and only girl I was given attention. I have an amazing relationship with my mom. She’s the best 😍😍🥰🥰. My brothers are annoying but they don’t live with us anymore except for one .Now home life is great. I’m not married and still live at home.

The home life thing is what I expected, though, I imagine with Mars being on your side, you came out of all the unpleasant stuff on top. The exalt Saturn-Jupiter conjunction is the issue I can see causing great harm, but Mars pushes you through. Not asking for anymore details, since that's none of our business.

As for the good stuff - that's freaking great. I'm happy you have good relations with your folks. Siblings are, from my poor memory, a third house subject and with Mercury in Sag there (Not too favorable a placement), I can see the annoyance from brothers. Also ruled by Jupiter, though, with Venus there, I'm going to assume there is still love for them, too.
 

Hkk

Account Closed
The home life thing is what I expected, though, I imagine with Mars being on your side, you came out of all the unpleasant stuff on top. The exalt Saturn-Jupiter conjunction is the issue I can see causing great harm, but Mars pushes you through. Not asking for anymore details, since that's none of our business.

As for the good stuff - that's freaking great. I'm happy you have good relations with your folks. Siblings are, from my poor memory, a third house subject and with Mercury in Sag there (Not too favorable a placement), I can see the annoyance from brothers. Also ruled by Jupiter, though, with Venus there, I'm going to assume there is still love for them, too.

Wouldn’t call it love lol! What’s the issue with the Jupiter Saturn conjunction?
 

Blaze

Account Closed
Wouldn’t call it love lol! What’s the issue with the Jupiter Saturn conjunction?

Lol. Is it more... Acceptance then? With that grand Conjunction ruling your third, there might've been some really bad issues surrounding brothers.

Again, it's none of our business, so no need for details, Hkk. On top of that,I'm not an astrologer. :p
 

Hkk

Account Closed
Lol. Is it more... Acceptance then? With that grand Conjunction ruling your third, there might've been some really bad issues surrounding brothers.

Again, it's none of our business, so no need for details, Hkk. On top of that,I'm not an astrologer. :p

What is this grand conjunction then. What does it all mean? Acceptance is a better word yes lol. I just think some of them are jealous of me despite them being just as successful if not more than me in careers etc. I clash with some of them but it’s not an issue. I’ve learnt to not care.

Your not an astrologer?? I thought you were. Your very good at all this Blaze. My guardian angel from space ...well from internet space lol
 

Blaze

Account Closed
What is this grand conjunction then. What does it all mean? Acceptance is a better word yes lol. I just think some of them are jealous of me despite them being just as successful if not more than me in careers etc. I clash with some of them but it’s not an issue. I’ve learnt to not care.

Your not an astrologer?? I thought you were. Your very good at all this Blaze. My guardian angel from space ...well from internet space lol

The grand conjunction is when big old Saturn conjuncts big old Jupiter. Happens rarely. Last time it happened in Taurus which isn't all that powerful a placement. The one you have happened in Libra, the exalt of Saturn, so its effects in your chart should be quite huge. Should be.

The next grand conjunction happens in Aquarius, 2020, Saturn's domicile. Haven't looked into anyone else's predictions on what'll happen, but its supposed to be a major event. That conjunction will trine your natal one as well, so I'd stay tuned into transits.

Also, Pluto will be conjunct them as well. Katydid could explain more, I like when she talks about Pluto since I dunno jack about it. :p
 

Hkk

Account Closed
The grand conjunction is when big old Saturn conjuncts big old Jupiter. Happens rarely. Last time it happened in Taurus which isn't all that powerful a placement. The one you have happened in Libra, the exalt of Saturn, so its effects in your chart should be quite huge. Should be.

The next grand conjunction happens in Aquarius, 2020, Saturn's domicile. Haven't looked into anyone else's predictions on what'll happen, but its supposed to be a major event. That conjunction will trine your natal one as well, so I'd stay tuned into transits.

Also, Pluto will be conjunct them as well. Katydid could explain more, I like when she talks about Pluto since I dunno jack about it. :p
Wow thank you! Let’s see if katydid would like to chat??
 

david starling

Well-known member
The grand conjunction is when big old Saturn conjuncts big old Jupiter. Happens rarely. Last time it happened in Taurus which isn't all that powerful a placement. The one you have happened in Libra, the exalt of Saturn, so its effects in your chart should be quite huge. Should be.

The next grand conjunction happens in Aquarius, 2020, Saturn's domicile. Haven't looked into anyone else's predictions on what'll happen, but its supposed to be a major event. That conjunction will trine your natal one as well, so I'd stay tuned into transits.

Also, Pluto will be conjunct them as well. Katydid could explain more, I like when she talks about Pluto since I dunno jack about it. :p

Blaze, do you consider Saturn a Domicled co-ruler of Aqua, along with :uranus:? That makes for some mismatched roommates!
Notice that in Trad, there's no such thing as 2 Domicle-rulers for one Sign.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member

The grand conjunction is when big old Saturn conjuncts big old Jupiter.

Happens rarely.
Jupiter's alignment with Saturn
occurs at intervals of just under 20 years :smile:
The aspect is occasionally repeated due to a retrograde
of one or both planets.
Each successive conjunction
not counting retrograde repeats
occurs at a mean advance of
approximately 243 degrees relative to its predecessor
although from one alignment to the next
this arc can vary considerably.

Every third conjunction
i.e.
once every 60 years
brings the alignment back
to its starting place, plus around 9 degrees:
this 60 year cycle is termed
FIRST ORDER RECURRENCE of the conjunction.
Every 40th conjunction - roughly once every 800 years -
brings the alignment back to within about 1 degree of its starting place:

this approximate 800 year cycle is termed SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE
aka GREAT MUTATION CYCLE

In ancient times Jupiter and Saturn
were the outermost known planets

and

were called by astrologers of old the "Great Chronocrators".
For millennia
the alignment of these two planets
has been regarded
as a significator of great social
economic
and
political watersheds - historic turning points, if you will.
hence
referred to as
"The Great Conjunction"
clearly then
Juiter Saturn conjunctions have been charted for millenia
by MUNDANE ASTROLOGERS
 

Blaze

Account Closed
Wow thank you! Let’s see if katydid would like to chat??

If we chant her username loud enough, she'll show up.

Blaze, do you consider Saturn a Domicled co-ruler of Aqua, along with :uranus:? That makes for some mismatched roommates!
Notice that in Trad, there's no such thing as 2 Domicle-rulers for one Sign.

I dunno. The only astrologer I know who uses the outer's doesn't give them rulers.

Personally, again, I dunno. Haven't studied anything related to the outers. Any book recommendations?
 

Blaze

Account Closed
Jupiter's alignment with Saturn
occurs at intervals of just under 20 years :smile:
The aspect is occasionally repeated due to a retrograde
of one or both planets.
Each successive conjunction
not counting retrograde repeats
occurs at a mean advance of
approximately 243 degrees relative to its predecessor
although from one alignment to the next
this arc can vary considerably.

Every third conjunction
i.e.
once every 60 years
brings the alignment back
to its starting place, plus around 9 degrees:
this 60 year cycle is termed
FIRST ORDER RECURRENCE of the conjunction.
Every 40th conjunction - roughly once every 800 years -
brings the alignment back to within about 1 degree of its starting place:

this approximate 800 year cycle is termed SECOND ORDER RECURRENCE
aka GREAT MUTATION CYCLE

In ancient times Jupiter and Saturn
were the outermost known planets

and

were called by astrologers of old the "Great Chronocrators".
For millennia
the alignment of these two planets
has been regarded
as a significator of great social
economic
and
political watersheds - historic turning points, if you will.
hence
referred to as
"The Great Conjunction"
clearly then
Juiter Saturn conjunctions have been charted for millenia
by MUNDANE ASTROLOGERS

Thanks mon ami. Good info here.
 

david starling

Well-known member
If we chant her username loud enough, she'll show up.



I dunno. The only astrologer I know who uses the outer's doesn't give them rulers.

Personally, again, I dunno. Haven't studied anything related to the outers. Any book recommendations?

Sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of Traditionalistic astrology. Most of us here are Mods, so you can learn about Modernistic just by observing the Chart-readings which include the Outermosts as Sign-rulers:
Uranian Domicile-rulership of Aquarius, Neptune for Pisces, Pluto for Scorpio.

There's also the Vedic board, which includes terminology not found in Western astrology. Not many Vedic astrologers use the Outermosts though, but a few do. It's the official astrology of India.
 
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Hkk

Account Closed
I’ve read about this great conjunction and I’m still not clear what it will mean or has meant (natal chart) for me? 🤔
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I dunno. The only astrologer I know who uses the outer's doesn't give them rulers.

Personally, again, I dunno.
Haven't studied anything related to the outers.

Any book recommendations?
opinions of one of our moderators tsmall

may be of interest :smile:

In my opinion only, for the same reason that so many astrologers have chosen to disregard classical astrology. Modern astrology was basically born in the 20th century and bears little resemblance to traditional astrology. There are those who have no wish to understand astrology any further than the reliance on myth for signification; those who feel that anything old must surely be outdated; and those who are just to lazy to study the classical underpinnings of astrology.

I'm not suggesting they have no meaning. I would suggest that the reason you see traditional astrologers, especially horarists using them is because those astrologers want to be accepted by a broader base.

It does remain that there is no way to shoe-horn or retrofit the outer planets into the dignity scheme, for example, because it exists the way it does for a reason; that reasoning gives the foundations of astrology--and not just for the significations of the planets. Aspect meanings as well as the significations of the houses also rely on the seven traditional planets. They are intertwined in a way that looses signification if broken apart.

If we are to count Pluto as an astrological planet, then is it nocturnal or diurnal? What are it's terms? Decans? Is it masculine or feminine? Where is it exalted? Where does it fall? In which degree?
especially as much of Pluto's signification
as well as that of the rest of the trans-Saturnian planets
comes from mythology
(which is not the foundation of the significations of the planets in classical astrology)
pure conjucture or speculation
or is stolen outright from the seven traditional planets.
dr. farr has studied astrology for more than fifty years
and
mentions as follows:

no, I do NOT consider Neptune, Uranus or Pluto to be dispositors ("rulers") of any sign
-but yes I do consider them to be affinitive to certain signs and dissonant with other signs:
for me, if X planet is in, say, Aquarius, then I consider SATURN to be dispositor of that planet,
PLUS I consider Uranus to have a relationship to that planet as well
(because of the affinity of Uranus with Aquarius),
but NOT at the same level (the level of dispositorship) that Saturn has.
To explain further, there are a few philosophical issues that arise when using the outer planets. It's true that many more classically oriented astrologers use them, but they tend to regard them as fainter fixed stars, so their importance and abilities tend to be scaled back or ignored unless they are on an angle or conjunct some important planet.

Another issue with the outer planets in general is that they lack much of the tools that the classical planets have. This isn't just referring to dignities (though that is a large part of it), but they also lack nature, sect, gender, years, winds, orbs, signatures, etc. This may all seem superfluous or unnecessary, but its significance really cannot be overstated. Without these associations, the outer planets are essentially blank orbs without instruction or meaning.

Finally, there is the issue with the meanings contemporary astrologers have given to them.

Mostly they either

1) don't make sense within their own context
or 2) are already taken by another planet.

About the first, a lot of the meanings of the planets have been assigned to them based on mythological interpretations or perceived mundane events happening around the time of their discovery. A lot of the mythological meanings are cherry picked and often nonsensical, like Uranus ruling rebellion, but in the myth Ouranos is the tyrannical dictator, not the freedom fighter. The mundane events are definitely cherry picked as there are many important events happening around the world at any given time. Pluto was discovered in 1930 and has taken on an association with nuclear force, but when I hear 1930s I think Great Depression and I've never heard anyone associate Pluto with financial ruination.

About the second, each of the outer planets have significations that are more or less plucked from the classical planets. Uranus's reported instability and recklessness can be found in Mercury and Mars. Neptune's illusions and mysticism can be found in the Moon. Pluto's transformation and general heavy-handedness are the domains of Mercury and Saturn. Not only does this create strange, cross-breed planets, but it makes the classical planets into flat characters when their meanings and significations are much more multifaceted in the tradition.
 
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