Trauma Question

Zora said:

I am of different opinion and I hold on to it. And I did look on chiron in virgo. Who even also not is in a near exact aspect with other planets. 8th house is ruled by mercury - what is mercury/pluto correspondence and mental area. 8th house is not ruled by mars with mars pluto correspondence.


Mercury is in conjunct with mars in 2nd house – physical body house -ruled by neptune in capricorn being in sextile with neptune and uranus. Sun in aries in 3rd house (mental/mind) has no valid square to neptune and uranus.

If we have to look for trines as the causer for abuse - as what should hard aspects to be considered ? Would there then be hope in a chart- you can look for ?

I never work with star dusts asteroids. If the planet energies do not deliver clear advice for a certain event happened- star dust wouldn't help either.

For the sake of respect to the questioner's story - I do not want to discuss it further. But I do hold on to my opinion.

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You can hold unto your opinion, but the facts of the native's life speaks for itself.

Scheat is a fixed star, not star dust. Dismissing something you are ignorant about doesn't say much for your case.

Hi Zora, when you say,

Zora said:

For the sake of respect to the questioner's story - I do not want to discuss it further. But I do hold on to my opinion.

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what exactly do you mean?

With the rest of your posts, I'm uncertain if you're skeptical of my life story or my birth time. Which is it? Since you are unable to find the markers for my life experience within my chart, are you saying my life experience is rendered suspect?

kshantaram said:

In case this makes some meaning,


venus-ketu separative SNode taurus 4th, detachment from mother-motherland-property;
love of food-comforts; pain-injury-surgery heart-lungs-teeth-throat etc

Sat-ketu now transit cap asc, pain-injury-surgery head-knees-feet to care;

Prayers to Christ, offer red flowers to Mother Goddess, fri evenings;


Scorpio 10th, inimical-malefic for cap asc, stress-delays in career-recognition;


jup-rahu NNode debilated scorpio, research-occult-forensic aptitudes,
vitiating judgment, rise-fall in life, not to indulge much into occult;
toxic urological-liver-knee issues;

prayers for ancestors, observe fast No-moon evenings;
observe death anniversaries religiously;
wear brown hessonite over pendant touching heart;

may float 1.25 pounds mustard seeds over clean flowing river tues after sunset;


do ack and share feedbacks how true-insightful-helpful,
traits-talents-health etc etc


wishing well, kshantaram

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Hi kshantaram,

thank you for your response!

I can see the detachment from both mothers and motherland with my foreign adoption. I also have a complicated relationship with my adopted mother and it is often strained.

I really do love comfort food. haha I haven't had an injuries or issues with my heart or really my throat either, but I have asthma and had braces for an abnormally long period of time (5 years, average is around 2-3 years).

As to the stress in career and delays in career recognition, I'm uncertain whether I qualify for that. I actually have had great luck in my jobs from day 1. In my first ever job, I gained a lot of success and recognition from the president and CEO of the organization as well as from senior managers. In my second job, the senior managers, who ordinarily did not work with students, gave me personal responsibilities to carry out for them and had meetings with me regularly. My current job, I win the award for most helpful every month.

However, I haven't graduated from my undergrad yet and I'm 25 years old. In a sense, this could be the career delay, as my professional trajectory will really take off when I have my degree. I have one semester left and I plan to finish in December though, so we shall see.

I would say I have an interest in the esoteric/occult and know more than the average person, but I wouldn't consider myself serious about it, although I might become later.

As for the remedies, I'm not entirely certain that I will pursue these. Would you mind explaining remedies to me?

Appreciate the prompt ack.

How do i further explain the remedies,
have to do as suggested to appease the planets
as preventive measures and reduce the negativity.


best wishes, kshantaram

Hey Kat, I just realized something rather freaky: Everything in your chart lies in one side of the chart. If your planets are a bit more scattered, I'd say you've got a bowl chart. And the only thing on the other side of the chart that could potentially turn the chart into a bucket is FREAKING CHIRON IN 8H! It forms aspects to Pluto, Venus and Saturn, which are your MC, Asc and IC's rulers. Could it be that all the bad things happening to you came from this?

Gemini888 said:

Hey Kat, I just realized something rather freaky: Everything in your chart lies in one side of the chart. If your planets are a bit more scattered, I'd say you've got a bowl chart. And the only thing on the other side of the chart that could potentially turn the chart into a bucket is FREAKING CHIRON IN 8H! It forms aspects to Pluto, Venus and Saturn, which are your MC, Asc and IC's rulers. Could it be that all the bad things happening to you came from this?

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Hi 8! Thanks for the reply! Why would you say I don’t have a bowl chart? Just curious Bc I consider my chart a bowl pattern.

Yeah the 8H Chiron is for sure an issue. I’m curious if you can see markers within the planets or angles or even nodes?

moonkat235 said:

Hi 8! Thanks for the reply! Why would you say I don’t have a bowl chart? Just curious Bc I consider my chart a bowl pattern.

Yeah the 8H Chiron is for sure an issue. I’m curious if you can see markers within the planets or angles or even nodes?

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A classic bowl has all planets scattering in 6 houses on one side. Your 11H and 12H are empty, so it isn't a classic bowl.


And since you ask about the nodes, I'm just curious if you were attached to your home life, like you felt horrible when you sensed things that didn't live up to your ideals of a perfect home.

Gemini888 said:

A classic bowl has all planets scattering in 6 houses on one side. Your 11H and 12H are empty, so it isn't a classic bowl.


And since you ask about the nodes, I'm just curious if you were attached to your home life, like you felt horrible when you sensed things that didn't live up to your ideals of a perfect home.

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Ohh I see I see. I had learned from an article by astrologer, Robert C Jansky that a classic bowl was

The two planets that bound the pattern will form an Opposition of about 180° We shall call this the "Rim Opposition."

The planets within the confines of the Rim Opposition will be rather evenly spaced apart. Never will there be a space between any two planets that exceeds 60°.

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What do you mean by attached to my home life? I stayed at home most of the time. I didn't do a lot of social activities growing up until college. As to the perfect ideal of home, I'm not sure. I don't really believe the Disney type of families are possible. I haven't seen a happy ideal family ever, so I decided very quickly as a kid that they didn't exist.

passiflora said:

MoonKat, I’m also sorry for the pain you experienced for so long. I hope everything improves in your adult life.
Not much to add here from an interpretive standpoint. I do not use whole sign houses myself but it’s remarkable how much sense your chart makes using them.
So Pluto, your nn and Jupiter go into the 11th house. I suppose that could set you up for abuse by so-called friends or even “2nd from the 10th” figures in childhood.
Pluto is retrograding towards the node and the most advanced planet by degrees which I see as in his own sign, not being reined in by anyone.
Attachment trauma is the Moon-Saturn opposite Chiron.

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I noticed the Whole-sign difference also. I have to use Whole-sign for my own Chart for it to make any sense at all. But, most people's Charts work well using Placidus, in my experience. So, I start with Placidus, but in this case, I would definitely go with Whole-sign.
That puts the entire Pisces stellium into H3. Moon in Pisces in 12/12 is Sense of Purpose, and there's the Moon's opposing Sign-ruler Saturn conjunct, interfering in a physical, Earth-sign manner. Yes, I'm blaming the abuse on the bully of the zodiac. It's your Ascendant-sign ruler, and by Sign is in mutual reception with Neptune, your Moon-sign ruler. You're saved by Sun in Aries, your only Fire, which (12/12 again) is also Sense of Purpose, with energy to spare, and the will to survive and assert your right to be yourself.

david starling said:

I noticed the Whole-sign difference also. I have to use Whole-sign for my own Chart for it to make any sense at all. But, most people's Charts work well using Placidus, in my experience. So, I start with Placidus, but in this case, I would definitely go with Whole-sign.
That puts the entire Pisces stellium into H3. Moon in Pisces in 12/12 is Sense of Purpose, and there's the Moon's opposing Sign-ruler Saturn conjunct, interfering in a physical, Earth-sign manner. Yes, I'm blaming the abuse on the bully of the zodiac. It's your Ascendant-sign ruler, and by Sign is in mutual reception with Neptune, your Moon-sign ruler. You're saved by Sun in Aries, your only Fire, which (12/12 again) is also Sense of Purpose, with energy to spare, and the will to survive and assert your right to be yourself.

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Hi David! I appreciate your perspective!

Why do you think some charts, such as yours and mine, make more sense with whole signs than placidus?

You view the Saturn-Neptune-Moon, Cap-Pisces interplay as the primary cause of dysfunction? That makes sense to me.

You once mentioned that having multiple 'Sense of Purpose' placements can actually work at odds with one another.

I'm curious as to what the title 'Sense of Purpose' really means. Do you mean that the actual purpose itself is defined by the placement and aspects? Or do you mean that the person has an intrinsic 'sense or purpose' and the way they go about attempting to fulfill this purpose is through the placement/aspects?

In this case, does Saturn's inhibition of the Piscean Moon's Sense of Purpose actually allow for a stronger focus on the Aries Sun Sense of Purpose, using 12/12? Like the Piscean Moon sense of purpose is rendered mute, which lessens the issue of two sense of purpose placements working at cross purposes?

Do you say my Aries sun saves me, because you view it as a rise-above survive and thrive sort of planetary interplay?

moonkat235 said:

Hi David! I appreciate your perspective!

Why do you think some charts, such as yours and mine, make more sense with whole signs than placidus?

You view the Saturn-Neptune-Moon, Cap-Pisces interplay as the primary cause of dysfunction? That makes sense to me.

You once mentioned that having multiple 'Sense of Purpose' placements can actually work at odds with one another.

I'm curious as to what the title 'Sense of Purpose' really means. Do you mean that the actual purpose itself is defined by the placement and aspects? Or do you mean that the person has an intrinsic 'sense or purpose' and the way they go about attempting to fulfill this purpose is through the placement/aspects?

In this case, does Saturn's inhibition of the Piscean Moon's Sense of Purpose actually allow for a stronger focus on the Aries Sun Sense of Purpose, using 12/12? Like the Piscean Moon sense of purpose is rendered mute, which lessens the issue of two sense of purpose placements working at cross purposes?

Do you say my Aries sun saves me, because you view it as a rise-above survive and thrive sort of planetary interplay?

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I think it happens due to necessity, and survival instinct. I actually can see that Placidus described me before the crisis point, and when I switched life-paths (as I interpret the different House systems) afterwards, I was best described by Whole-sign.
We both lack an Element, which may have something to do with it. Although, including the Age-indicator in the Chart does give me a connection to Earth-sign Capricorn. And, since I firmly believe in Sign-blending at the cusps, you have some natal access to the increasing amount of Aquarius mixed in with the Age of Capricorn. Your Asc, , & are all included within the boundaries of the transiting Age-Interval. The leading point is the Age-indicator for individuals, and it reached 27 degrees Capricorn in 1975. In 2033, it will reach the 28 degree mark.
Yes to both of your last questions.
[Edit] Significant that your Natal , Domicile-ruler of the Ages of Aquarius, was close-conjunct the Age-indicator in your birth-year.

moonkat235 said:

What do you mean by attached to my home life? I stayed at home most of the time. I didn't do a lot of social activities growing up until college. As to the perfect ideal of home, I'm not sure. I don't really believe the Disney type of families are possible. I haven't seen a happy ideal family ever, so I decided very quickly as a kid that they didn't exist.

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I was just asserting your SN. With Taurus SN in 4H, I would imagine you are the type that harbors an ideal image of a home life but couldn't quite attain it. Even when you say to yourself you don't need a family, you still keep that ideal somewhere in your subconsciousness. Without an ideal how do you decide something is bad? And given that you talk a lot about your family, I have a feeling you think a lot about that matter.

Gemini888 said:

I was just asserting your SN. With Taurus SN in 4H, I would imagine you are the type that harbors an ideal image of a home life but couldn't quite attain it. Even when you say to yourself you don't need a family, you still keep that ideal somewhere in your subconsciousness. Without an ideal how do you decide something is bad? And given that you talk a lot about your family, I have a feeling you think a lot about that matter.

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I think I have fairly balanced views on my family actually. I try to see them and myself pragmatically and with a grounded perspective. Taurus is a pragmatic, grounded sign I'd argue rather than idealistic or prone to disillusionment.

I wouldn't say I've simplified my familial experience down to the dichotomous terms 'good' or 'bad'. That is not helpful nor does it feel authentic or true to me. I try very hard to see other's perspectives and see the way one experience weaves into a larger context. It's not cut and dry, black and white.

Are you saying that acknowledging suffering caused by another's behaviors implies only disillusionment? I disagree. I don't think I 'felt horrible' primarily due to shattered ideals. I don't agree that I held family or friends to impossible standards they couldn't meet. I didn't demonize them for not living up to what I wanted. I see a lot of context for my experiences and it's just not that simple.

david starling said:

I think it happens due to necessity, and survival instinct. I actually can see that Placidus described me before the crisis point, and when I switched life-paths (as I interpret the different House systems) afterwards, I was best described by Whole-sign.
We both lack an Element, which may have something to do with it. Although, including the Age-indicator in the Chart does give me a connection to Earth-sign Capricorn. And, since I firmly believe in Sign-blending at the cusps, you have some natal access to the increasing amount of Aquarius mixed in with the Age of Capricorn. Your Asc, , & are all included within the boundaries of the transiting Age-Interval. The leading point is the Age-indicator for individuals, and it reached 27 degrees Capricorn in 1975. In 2033, it will reach the 28 degree mark.
Yes to both of your last questions.
[Edit] Significant that your Natal , Domicile-ruler of the Ages of Aquarius, was close-conjunct the Age-indicator in your birth-year.

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I'm not quite sure what the 'Age-Indicator' is. I have no clue how to conceptualize that. lol I'm still unclear how the Ages are calculated. lol Sorry!

Hmmm very curious. How would you interpret nUranus being close-conjunct the Age-Indicator? How would you view that effect on me?

moonkat235 said:

I'm not quite sure what the 'Age-Indicator' is. I have no clue how to conceptualize that. lol I'm still unclear how the Ages are calculated. lol Sorry!

Hmmm very curious. How would you interpret nUranus being close-conjunct the Age-Indicator? How would you view that effect on me?

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Intuitive awareness that "reality" is an agreed-upon worldview, and subject to change.

moonkat235 said:

I'm not quite sure what the 'Age-Indicator' is. I have no clue how to conceptualize that. lol I'm still unclear how the Ages are calculated. lol Sorry!

Hmmm very curious. How would you interpret nUranus being close-conjunct the Age-Indicator? How would you view that effect on me?

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I've been slow getting to the Ages explanation. Hasn't felt like the right time, but soon now.

moonkat235 said:

I think I have fairly balanced views on my family actually. I try to see them and myself pragmatically and with a grounded perspective. Taurus is a pragmatic, grounded sign I'd argue rather than idealistic or prone to disillusionment.

I wouldn't say I've simplified my familial experience down to the dichotomous terms 'good' or 'bad'. That is not helpful nor does it feel authentic or true to me. I try very hard to see other's perspectives and see the way one experience weaves into a larger context. It's not cut and dry, black and white.

Are you saying that acknowledging suffering caused by another's behaviors implies only disillusionment? I disagree. I don't think I 'felt horrible' primarily due to shattered ideals. I don't agree that I held family or friends to impossible standards they couldn't meet. I didn't demonize them for not living up to what I wanted. I see a lot of context for my experiences and it's just not that simple.

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I was just playing around with ideas. I don't mean to put you down in any way. I'm pretty glad that you didn't fall into any extreme

Gemini888 said:

I was just playing around with ideas. I don't mean to put you down in any way. I'm pretty glad that you didn't fall into any extreme

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I find moonkat's objectivity both highly unusual and admirable. Many would have ended up hating their family and feeling sorry for themselves.

david starling said:

I find moonkat's objectivity both highly unusual and admirable. Many would have ended up hating their family and feeling sorry for themselves.

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I think that is true. I actually really love my family and hope we can form healthy relationships going forward. I also feel very protective of them. They've had tough lives and I don't wish to add to that.