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Solar returns Talk about your experience with solar returns in predictive astrology.


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  #26  
Unread 03-08-2012, 09:38 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

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Originally Posted by gamhal View Post
I don't remember where I first heard this technique described but I have found it useful for timing events...particularly where it coincides with other configurations.

There is of course a miniscule offset to consider with the five days beyond the chart's 360 which would become more pronounced as the year progresses
.
Important factor when timing events

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  #27  
Unread 03-09-2012, 03:16 AM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

"progressing" the SR chart, one day = one degree, is a very useful method, and is often quite effective. I too have used this method with good results. I believe this method was originally advocated back in the 1940-60's by members of the London School of Astrology, but I am not certain of this assertion.

Note: to make the progressions exact for a 365 day year, progress at the rate of 59minutes10seconds (59'10") per day, instead of 1 degree per day.

Last edited by dr. farr; 03-09-2012 at 04:20 AM.
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  #28  
Unread 03-11-2012, 07:26 AM
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Post Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

I was able to uncover my solar return with the help of astro.com, but to avoid me rambling on a dissertation on how to find yours, I post the link to the FAQ on finding your solar return.

http://www.astro.com/faq/fq_fh_return_e.htm

Mine was February 15, 2012 at 8:38AM PST. Usually birthdays or close to them are when most personal solar returns occur. I read about the USA solar return (or was it with Lunar or planetary returns) on this site when someone used September 20, 1787 instead of July 4, 1776: to find the nation's most significant day was Sept. 25 (2 weeks after 9/11), 2001!

Not only I recovered from an anginagram exactly 3 months ago (November 15-16 - was my part of hyleg) and the stilts placed inside me should heal in...90 days, I got word of a family friend's 18 year old son had an auto accident which he survived...on February 15th this year. And on January 4th: the part of destiny "to determine ones-self" was on this day in 1987, my parents divorced and 25 years later, my Mom I lived in mainly with as a child...never remarried.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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  #29  
Unread 03-11-2012, 04:23 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

I have a question ...

I think the effects of my solar return are already kicking in (birthday is in June). Should aspects of the SR be read by themselves or in accordance to their relationship to planets in the natal chart?
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  #30  
Unread 03-11-2012, 07:27 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

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Originally Posted by melina View Post
I have a question ... I think the effects of my solar return are already kicking in (birthday is in June). Should aspects of the SR be read by themselves or in accordance to their relationship to planets in the natal chart?
Ancient/Traditional astrologers treated the solar return - 'Revolution' they called it - as part of a greater prediction system: Primary directions indicate the significance of the upcoming year: the solar return is studied with the nativity, for nothing can occur unless it is promised in the nativity. Lunar returns are then consulted for more precise timing, followed by transits for pinpointing the day of the event. Secondary progressions are a suitable substitute for primary directions. The returns are never judged alone - "Transits are not enough"

Questions concerning precession, location and use with the nativity, came later. Some modern astrologers prefer the precessed returns and insist the return chart can be read independently. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/rev_returns.html

Information related to Sidereal Solar Returns for those interested is available at http://solunars.net/viewforum.php?f=...1706a04b281651
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  #31  
Unread 03-12-2012, 04:41 AM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

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Originally Posted by melina View Post
I have a question ...

I think the effects of my solar return are already kicking in (birthday is in June). Should aspects of the SR be read by themselves or in accordance to their relationship to planets in the natal chart?
Although I use quite radical methods re to SR, I think the most valuable testimonies of historical and contemporary authorities regarding the delineation of SR's support the idea of blending the relationship of SR planets to natal planets along with the delineation of the SR planets aspects as "stand-alone"; this combination gives the most likely accurate predictive assessment.
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  #32  
Unread 06-24-2012, 05:46 PM
Hoosier Astrologer Hoosier Astrologer is offline
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

I strongly disagree that Solar Return charts are "simply glorified transit charts". I have studied various return charts in depth since at least 1987, and find them to function more as mini-natal charts. They contain numerous promises about what will occur in the individual's life over the period in question. For instance, a Solar Return (SR) will make promises that can be reliably depended on to be fulfilled sometime between one birthday and the next. The fact that they do not narrow down exactly WHEN in those 12 months the promise will be fulfilled does not reduce the value of the promise.

Over the course of my 25 years of studying return charts, I have learned a few things about them that are not always mentioned or obvious by other astrologers:

1. For one, return charts tend to become partially active about 10% - 12% earlier than the actual timing of the chart. In other words, even though my birthday is in early April, my SR will actually start manifesting results as early as mid-February, about six weeks ahead of schedule.

2. There are two extremely useful return charts that the mainstream astrological community under-utilizes : tertiary lunar returns (TLRs) and secondary lunar returns (SLRs). The SLR is the actual lunar return that occurred in the first months after a subject was born, but used according to its timing in the secondary progressed chart. Thus, the subject's first SLR occurs around age 27, and that chart will reliably portray the subject's life conditions and life developments over the following 27 years (of course, due to the 11% rule, the SLR actually starts coming into effect about two years before the actual Moon-conjunct-Moon event in the secondary chart, or around age 25. Thus, a subject will only have a few SLRs over the course of their entire lives, and so these few charts naturally and reliably divide the subject's life into very distinct 27-year chapters. Mortality is usually indicated in these charts by multiple (no less than two) malific afflictions to Sun, Moon, ASC, and/or MH. Similatly, the same sort of chart can be used in the tertiary progressed chart, only in that case the chart will reflect a two-year-long period of time. Thus, between SLRs, TLRs, and SRs, we have return charts that divide the life into one year, two year, and 27 year charters.

Regardless of where the native has moved to over the course of his life, I find that the TLRs and SLRs drawn up for the birthplace are best, at least so long as the native was still at his birthplace during the first few months of his life.

Effectively, the return charts show what will happen in a given period, while the transits and progressions will define how and when those developments will occur. If you are hoping for a career advancement in a given period, look in the return charts. If there are no beneficial aspects to the MH, your hopes will not pan out no matter what is going on in the transits or progressions. Similarly, if you are worried about losing your job in a given period but the return charts have only positive aspects to the MH, you will likely be okay regardless of what is going on in the transits and progessions.

There is a hierarchy of authority :

1. Natal chart
2. Secondary Lunar Return
3. Tertiary Lunar Return
4. Solar Return
5. Transits, Solar Arcs, Progressions, and Lunar Returns

Nothing can happen in the life unless it is indicated in the natal chart, but in the same way, all major developments in a given 27 year period will be represented in the current SLR, and the same goes for the two-year TLRs and the one-year SR. These charts show the overarching design of the life, while the transits and progressions simply fill in the timing details. When the return charts seem to contradict the transits and progressions, the return charts always prove to be the superior indicators.



I rely very, very heavily on return charts in my work, using them to define the broad outlines of a given period of time, and then using transits and progressions to fine-tune the exact timing of the promises made in the return charts. I find this is a very reliable recipe for successful prediction in my work.

Last edited by Hoosier Astrologer; 06-24-2012 at 06:39 PM.
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  #33  
Unread 06-27-2012, 07:38 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

Very interesting, Hoosier Astrologer. How do we go about generating our Secondary Lunar Return? Is it essentially just the progressed chart for the day that we have our Progressed Lunar Return?

Edit: I think I get it. It's essentially the first Lunar Return chart after we were born (if we're under 54)! Can we then make Solar Return charts using the date and time of this SLR as another birthdate in essence?

Last edited by ethertwist; 06-27-2012 at 08:06 PM.
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  #34  
Unread 06-27-2012, 08:45 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

No, it is the actual lunar return. Let me explain. In your secondary progressed chart, find the lunar returns, i.e., the times when the secondary progressed moon comes around to conjoin the natal moon. Now, these conjunctions will occur roughly at ages 27, 55 and 82 in each individual's progressed chart. But in real time, those same conjunctions were the first three lunar returns of that infant's life. IOW, the child born on 1/1/2012 will have his first lunar return on 1/28/2012, but in his progressed chart that event occurred at age 27. That exact same chart is both his normal lunar return that governed his life for a single month as an infant from 1/28/2012 to 2/25/2012, but at the same time it is also his secondary lunar return that will govern his life from age 27 to age 55.

It is also his tertiary lunar return that will govern a two-year period from age 2 to age 4.

It is very rewarding to study the tertiary lunar returns as a way to grasp how these charts work. Take a look back at the last ten of your own TLRs, governing your last 20 years, and you will see instantly how accurately and comprehensively they reflect the conditions, foci, and changes of your life during each period. IOW, let the charts themselves teach you how to read them.

Last edited by Hoosier Astrologer; 06-27-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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  #35  
Unread 06-28-2012, 03:42 AM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

Cool Secondary Lunar Return is good. Its like the directions to accomplish before Saturn Return.

So is Lunar Return a good indicator to calibrate the Solar Return per month. Or is it too hermetic emotional development?

Last edited by gen6k; 06-28-2012 at 03:52 AM.
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  #36  
Unread 09-07-2012, 10:37 AM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

Hi, does anyone knows whether the chart of "Professor Gumby" is that of a man or a woman?
This is crucial in delineating marriage and I didn't saw anywhere mentioned.
Maybe the name "Gumby" in itself is describable, but since English is not my first language, I'm finding it hard to make analogy.
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  #37  
Unread 09-07-2012, 12:42 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
...Maybe the name "Gumby" in itself is describable, but since English is not my first language, I'm finding it hard to make analogy.
Hi Omnisphericus, a typical 'Gumby' is viewable at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIlKiRPSNGA


100 word extract sourced from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbys

"Gumbys are recurring characters in Monty Python's Flying Circus a British comedy programme. If a name was listed for them, the surname given would always be "Gumby", and the first name would usually be given as two initials. Gumbys have toothbrush moustaches, wear handkerchiefs on their heads which are knotted at the corners, wire-rimmed spectacles, braces, Fair Isle knitted tank tops, a 1950s shirt rolled up to the elbows (without the detachable collar), trousers rolled up above their knees and gumboots. They usually hold their arms in an ape-like position, speak loudly and slowly, and pronounce words syllable by syllable"

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post

I asked Professor Gumby if we could use his Natal and Solar Return Charts to examine, and this is what he had to say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzr6wk7FVXE

I'm going to take that as a "yes."

Since many are concerned with marriage/divorce, we'll look at those charts first.
fwiw IMO Omnisphericus we can safely assume that due to BobZemco's somewhat consistently acidic humour that the reference to 'Professor Gumby' is intended not to be taken seriously... however, since BobZemco no longer posts on our forum we cannot check whether the chart is of a male or of a female or simply an event chart picked in order to illustrate the particular idea BobZemco wanted to convey
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  #38  
Unread 09-07-2012, 12:47 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

Hi JupiterAsc, thank you for your clarification
So, I assume that the "Professor Gumby" of Bob's chart is a man?!
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  #39  
Unread 09-07-2012, 12:52 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Hi JupiterAsc, thank you for your clarification So, I assume that the "Professor Gumby" of Bob's chart is a man?!
I would be inclined to assume so Omnisphericus and I'm also very interested to learn of any insights you may have in relation to the ideas illustrated by BobZemco via "Professor Gumby's Chart"
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Unread 09-07-2012, 12:58 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
I would be inclined to assume so Omnisphericus and I'm also very interested to learn of any insights you may have in relation to the ideas illustrated by BobZemco via "Professor Gumby's Chart"
Yes I want to look at the chart, that is why I asked for the gender of the native, to know whether to calculate the Lot of Marriage for Men or Women; which Universal Significator to use, Venus and Moon if the native is a man, or Sun and Mars if the native is a woman. Traditional Astrology makes these distinctions in delineating a chart.
I would go with assuming that the chart is that of a man, so we will see where will lead us

I will come back with the results.
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  #41  
Unread 09-07-2012, 01:08 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Yes I want to look at the chart, that is why I asked for the gender of the native, to know whether to calculate the Lot of Marriage for Men or Women; which Universal Significator to use, Venus and Moon if the native is a man, or Sun and Mars if the native is a woman. Traditional Astrology makes these distinctions in delineating a chart.
I would go with assuming that the chart is that of a man, so we will see where will lead us

I will come back with the results.
Many thanks Omnisphericus - BobZemco's posts are clearly knowledgeable - however as an ex-Military man the somewhat terse. uncompromising/'no-nonsense' style met with disapproval and his comments were frequently deleted and so perhaps not unexpectedly he decided therefore to have a vacation! However BobZemco is a popular contributor on our forum, is very much missed and many of us think he may return!
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  #42  
Unread 09-08-2012, 10:01 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

For me, it was very problematic in the first place to delineate the chart of Professor Gumby as a chart which should show divorce in itself.
Ruler of 7th and Universal Significator for marriage in man's chart - Venus is not impeded by the malefics nor it is burned by the Sun's rays.
She is in its own triplicity + decan and not seriously afflicted.
Moon, the exalted ruler of 7th is making adherence (3 degrees applicative conjunction) to the greater benefic Jupiter in its own throne in trigon relationship with Venus while malefics are tamed in cadent houses quantitatively weak. I mean, where are the divorce indications? If something is not promised in the birth chart, thousands of Solar Returns can not bring it to you, the natal chart is the basis and we must seek for the indications for divorce in the natal chart.
If they are not there, then we have two options:
1. The chart is with wrong time of birth and needs to be rectified.
2. There are indications which our present knowledge of Astrology can't see them.

I think that it is the first one, and the chart needs to be rectified at least two degrees backward. Ascendant will then fall in 18 degrees Scorpio, and Saturn who is one of the greatest divorce makers will through an antiscia toward Scorpio, and contra-antiscia toward taurus, which would affect the Ac-Dc axis.

Furthermore, the Twelfth Part of Venus falls in Leo, in direct opposition to natal Saturn, opposition which according to Valens, and the other ancients, is one of the best indications eather for no marriage at all, either for divorce.

Again, Hephaistio says to look at the Trigon Lords of Venus.
They are Venus which rules from 0 to 25 years of life, Mars who rules from 25 to 50 and Moon who rules from 50 to the end of life.
Mars rules the period in question and he is quantitatively poor in cadent house and making superior square to Venus by sign.
Hephaistio says that if Venus itself is good situated but her trigon rulers in bad position or impeded, then the marriage will be good at first, but will turn in to evil.

Again, from the 41st year of life Mars rules by Ptolemaic Ages and also subrules the Firdaria in the period of question. And again, he is a divisor of the directed Ascendant.

I know that this is a discussion of the Solar Returns, I just wanted to add some thoughts on the natal chart itself, because in the end, we compare the solar return chart to the natal chart.

Last edited by Omnisphericus; 09-08-2012 at 10:05 PM.
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  #43  
Unread 09-08-2012, 10:55 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

Thank you Omnisphericus. There are currently discussions on Rectification on the forum and your interesting comments are helpful in that regard - although this particular thread, as you have said focuses exclusively on Solar Returns. However - basically, a Solar Return is intended to be considered WITH the natal as you have indicated!

I notice that BobZemco did seem disenchanted with solar returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing when Professor Gumby will marry using an SR Chart. However, in another post on another thread, we showed where Primary Directions accurately gave the timing of Professor Gumby's marriage (which is another reason I don't bother wasting my time with SR Charts).

Although I suppose they could, I haven't see where dispositors play any relevant role in SR Charts and no one really covers the issue in any detail (and most don't even mention it)
.
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Unread 09-09-2012, 12:22 AM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

Quote:
I notice that BobZemco did seem disenchanted with solar returns
Well, everyone will find a technique which will be his favorite and some other technique which would seem that it want work. There are really lot of Time techniques, especially at this time when the Hellenistic Astrology is reviving continually thanks to Project Hindsight and other valuable sources, individual translators such as James Holden and etc.

Abu Mashar says in his On Revolution on Nativities, that ancient kings did not go into battle if their Solar Return charts shows defeat, or if the chart of the generals showed defeat they would replace them with some other general who had better Solar Return chart. This paraphrase on Abu Mashar is from Morin -the great French Astrologer who put great deal on Solar Returns.

Of course, if they are not relevant for a particular individual they are not relevant and period. But this does not seem that they don't work objectively.
I'm studying them in the moment and have found them as very valuable tool.
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Unread 09-09-2012, 12:34 AM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Well, everyone will find a technique which will be his favorite and some other technique which would seem that it want work. There are really lot of Time techniques, especially at this time when the Hellenistic Astrology is reviving continually thanks to Project Hindsight and other valuable sources, individual translators such as James Holden and etc.
I'm particularly interested at the moment with the Hellenistic solar Return which brings the solar return moon to the precise degree and sign of the natal moon WHEN THE SUN IS IN THE SIGN OF THE NATAL SUN BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE NATAL DEGREE OF THE NATAL SUN - did you ever investigate this technique?
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  #46  
Unread 09-09-2012, 02:00 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
I'm particularly interested at the moment with the Hellenistic solar Return which brings the solar return moon to the precise degree and sign of the natal moon WHEN THE SUN IS IN THE SIGN OF THE NATAL SUN BUT NOT NECESSARILY THE NATAL DEGREE OF THE NATAL SUN - did you ever investigate this technique?
I've not. What are the sources of this technique?
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Unread 09-09-2012, 02:51 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
I've not. What are the sources of this technique?
Vettius Valens
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Unread 09-09-2012, 02:54 PM
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

Curtis Manwaring discusses at http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/solar-return.html
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Unread 10-11-2012, 11:48 PM
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What orb is most appropriate to use aspects in the Solar return chart?
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Re: Interpreting Solar Return Charts

Dear Sir,
I am quite worried for a friend of mine. His next solar return has 6 planets including Sun and Moon in the first house along with the SR asc. According to some astrologers this could be very detrimental to his health, others say it is a year of personl empowerment. I am suggesting he relocate for his birthday. Am I helping him or ruining a year that could give him the stgrength he needs to overcome his problems
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