Venus square Saturn

Not feeling attactive, loveable, or even worthy of love? Yep, been there. I've got the Venus sq. Saturn aspect. It's challenging, but I try to tell myself to not believe half of the horrible stuff I say/think about myself.

sallyd said:

Some old philosopher said 'the stars incline, they do not compel' or some such thing....

You make your own life - irrespective of astrology - don't look at your star chart (or indeed your upbringing) to set the course of your future.

Astrology should give you positive guidance, not set limits on you.

Click to expand...

The stars impel they do not compel is the saying. HOwever a Saturn Venus connection is one of feeling unlovable and not being very sociable. It comes from a fear of not being attractive or good enough. HOwever sometimes an older person can give you the confidence to blossom and this aspect can indicate an enduring love that is based on practical matters and
a sense of loyalty. It is not the fairytale romance aspect, that is for sure.

Claire19 said:

The stars impel they do not compel is the saying. HOwever a Saturn Venus connection is one of feeling unlovable and not being very sociable. It comes from a fear of not being attractive or good enough. HOwever sometimes an older person can give you the confidence to blossom and this aspect can indicate an enduring love that is based on practical matters and a sense of loyalty.

Click to expand...

I think there is even more hope than that. I agree that Saturn/Venus, hard aspects are linked to just what you said, at least quite often—not feeling worthy, not feeling loved, and so on.

But for those of us who get beyond this, I also think we have a lot to teach other people about having more confidence, looking beyond it, etc.

Which was my point. I also like the idea of finding "enduring love", because that's the flip side of Saturn. You have to wait longer, but often what you wait for is worth the waiting.

I have a stellium in Virgo, squared by Saturn. I've been married twice. I do not have low self esteem, in fact, at an early age when my parents would tell me "you are fat, stupid and ugly, no man will ever love you" (yes, they said that, in an effort to "toughen me up" - that's Saturn for you!) I would look at them and *know* they were crazy. I have, however, loved emotionally unavailable men, but at my age of 50 I sometimes wonder if I hadn't expected too much. I am not lonely, I don't cry in isolation. I have good friends and I feel loved, even though I am not in a personal relationship. Go figure. Plus, the Virgo stellium (Pluto, Merc, Venus, Sun) is in the 5th/6th house, with the sun being the ruler of my 5th. I go out dancing often and have fun. I will say that Saturn has taught me to live a life of INTEGRITY at all costs. There's no fooling Saturn, I can't lie, or cheat, or deceive without paying a huge price, mostly because my Virgo self beats me up. I also have Moon/Nep/Jup in Scorp in the 7th.

I guess if I had to pinpoint where "low self esteem" lives, it may be because I have never had a man in my life who was highly successful. Most of the men were struggling financially, and often were spiritually bankrupt. Again, I had to learn not to take on their financial struggles or expect more from them spiritually then they had showed themselves capable of. Leaving people to themselves is one of the hardest lessons.

I have 2 children. One has Venus trine Saturn. She is a cold person. Aquarian Sun, now 28 years old. I once read somewhere that the low form of Aquarius can behave atrociously and justify it all. My daughter personifies that. She has a grand air trine (moon, saturn, venus) and completely detaches from emotion. No earth in her chart except Chiron in Taurus.

My son, who is 12, is a Cancer. He has a grand square of Venus in 10th opposite Neptune, squaring Chiron in 1st and Saturn in 7th. Yeeee-ouch!!
No earth in his chart either.

Here's what I noticed about my son: He "sets up" Saturn. Example: We are eating dinner. At his age, even though we've had this discussion many times, he will get out of his chair and try to hug me while we're eating. He knows that I have a boundary about that (Cancers need boundaries, otherwise he'd be like a baby kangaroo wanting to be in my pouch all day...). Then he pouts because I won't hug him then and there. When he does things like that I call him on it tell him that he's inviting rejection and that one of the things he'll have to learn is how to better "read" people and when they are available to giving him the love he desires - that it can't be an "on DEMAND" thing. That his chart shows that he will seek out rejection until and unless he realizes that seeks it out in order to teach him to love himself deeply without the need for another person to make him feel loved - which wouldn't work anyway, because......

When I look at him right in the eye during sincere, quiet moments, and tell him that I think he's a really cool kid and that ***I am proud to be his mother***--- he cries. Just wells up and cries. Looking at him directly and expressing love brings up his Saturn stuff like nothing else. I happen to believe that Chiron is wounds from other lifetimes, cellular memory stuff that gets reinacted in this lifetime, and I can really see that when he cries over simply being LOVED. If I am not looking at him and tell him I love him he doesn't react the same way. It's the direct contact that gets him. Also, I have tried to teach him deep breathing techniques because he can be anxiety prone (a Cancer anxious?? Nooooo!!). The first few times I tried to get him to breathe deeply... he cried. The deep breaths brought up something very painful for him, and since he has not had a traumatic childhood by any stretch of the imagination, I can only assume it's past life stuff. But, the depths of Cancer's feelings are unfathomable. He does have Moon/Jupiter in Aquarius in the 5th so it helps him not to succumb entirely to the Watery elements.

Anyway, I just thought it interesting to watch a Saturn/Venus person grow up, knowing what I know about astrology. When I saw his chart 1 day after he was born I nearly cried, because it is not such a great chart, shows suffering. So I have tried to mitigate this as much as possible. He knows a little about his chart but not much because I don't want to set him up to think he is "destined" for misery. Like I said, I have the Virgo planets square Saturn, and I have not been miserable. I have Moon square Chiron too, so I do know about the exquisite sensitivies of Chiron. One day I will teach him more about astrology (he wants so badly to learn!) but I just can't bring myself to do it just yet.

Diane

Wow! Does anyone really read such a long screed. Best to just post your chart and keep it a bit shorter. I tend to overlook any post that is this long.
Too much information.

Wow! Does anyone really read such a long screed. Best to just post your chart and keep it a bit shorter. I tend to overlook any post that is this long.
Too much information.

Click to expand...

Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. I thought "theArmenian" made a very insightful post. AND she divided it into easy-to-read paragraphs

I also read the whole post by thearmenian. I just wish I got see the whole chart and not just part of it, described!

But yes, I thought it was thoughtful. I think a lot in that manner, much of the time. I just severely censor myself.

Claire1,

:38:Thanks for playing Saturn and giving a very good example for those whose creativity (venus) is criticized (Saturn). Your smiley is rejected.

To the others who supported my post:

I have Scorp Venus opposing Taurus Saturn. I m nearly forty and still struggling with this aspect, escpecially these last years (tr Pluto is conjuncting my sun and tr Pluto squaring my natal Pluto, but these transits that are almost over... yess!!!). It has been tough.

These last 3-4 years I have felt terribly lonely and unlovable and unattractive.... the short relationships I had (plus one 3 yrs longing for someone who was very similar to Raffaella´s crush) made things only worse. I was not loved *felt not loved* by those guys. Every guy I meet seems to wait for his special princess (or has lost that princess) and Im there just to spend some time with and have fun... Im far from the image of their princess, their ideal woman. And they say it all the time. And I feel terribly unadequate. And I cant leave them cos I love them and I suffer.

Was also the pattern of my last crush that I ended a week ago. I had courage to do it... for the first time... to end a relationship that caused me suffering.

I really hate the situation that repeats itself in my life... the guy is emotionally unavailable and practically "uses" you... waiting for his ideal woman to appear or longing for his ideal woman he has lost. And Im there thinking "What the hell I am doing here"? Hate hate hate those situations...

They are probably mirror of my Venus opp Saturn. I put way too heavy burden on my partner, looking for a rescuer, a Christ. I dont love myself enough and Im waiting my partner to reassure me ALL THE TIME. That´s too heavy burden for them and they decide that Im not their "woman".

So now Im taking a break and feel good after all this emotional turmoil

Ps the guys I pick usually have prominent Saturn in their chart (the last one had Venus sq Saturn).

Supporting all others with the same aspect,
JJJ

Oh my goodness Spacecadet, that is very strange. I was looking at my son's chart when I came across some unexpected and upsetting hard aspects, one of them the tight Venus Square Saturn. It is exactly like yours! 5H Venus in Scorpio 2H Saturn in Leo. I know very little about astrology but I am learning and would like to be aware of any way I might help my son develop well, and not feel unloved or unliked or unappreaciated or un-anything (except understood). It seems so strange to me that he has the potential to feel lonely or unaccepted at home or as a child. As a mother, I am a very sensitive and loving (though discipline when needed) person. I am a double pisces, my son is scorpio sun leo ascendant. What could this mean? Can anyone give me any ideas as to how this might play out, or how i can help soften this for him? Are there any other interpretations of this aspect? I guess I am feeling a little worried and already guilty of having failed him in some way, even though he only just turned two. Thanks so much for any advice!!! Hope to learn from you all.

Emi

I'm no expert Emi but my thoughts are that this aspect doesn't seem to affect men in such a difficult way as it affects women. He is lucky that you have an astrological understanding and as such are able to focus on his particular needs/talents/qualities etc.

There is never one interpretation of an aspect and the way we integrate the different energies will depend on many factors and other aspects of our chart. I hate to give interpretations of an aspect without studying a whole chart but venus sq saturn in a mans chart could reflect his view of (some) women or the type of women he attracts. You could look to his moon to get a fuller picture of how he views women to see if that sheds light on any potential conflicts, as well as his mars. It will also depend on his sensitivity to energies. You are obviously very aware of these things but many people just dont feel planetary energies in the way we astrology people do!

As per the issue of feeling unlovable/lonly/unworthy. If a parent is aware that that could be a vulnerable part of the childs make-up then you are in a wonderful position to stengthen it through repeat enforcing to that child that he is immensly loved/lovable/worthy/talented/skilled just as he is....and also that he can earn money and have a career doing whatever he chooses (2nd)...avoid comparing him to others.

I think the topic of astrolgoical parenting would make an excellent thread that you could perhaps start. There are so many interesting discussions to be had - can we affect the way that a childs chart is made up? etc. But for now I hope I've helped somewhat to stop you worrying. x

I have the square.

I think it helped me in a very weird, protracted and reversed way...

When I was young, people would tell me that I should be more feminine, wear make-up, pay more attention to my looks, but Saturn just made me feel utterly embarrassed in doing anything that could make me look feminine...

Somehow, women with the aspect feel that they are not allowed to express their femininity with total freedom. Something about being a girl seems wrong. And that's how I felt. But, on the other hand, there was a good thing about it. Instead of joining the crowd in trying to be "pretty", instead of following that flock, I just thought one day I would meet someone who would like me for who I was, without all the make-up and girlie-looks. Turns out I did, more than once, and the relationships definetely were more than worth it. And I got married, so, people with Venus square Saturn are not necessarily doomed in love. One trine of a transiting Saturn or Jupiter with natal Venus and someone special may appear in your life....

I think venus square Saturn closes the door of the "dating crowd" to the native. We don't deal with love and physical intimacy the same way other people do. One's got to respect oneself, I think. I hated to throw myself in discos and other places and feeling that obligation of finding someone to hook up with....... I hated kissing someone I didn't care about or barely knew. But, of course, I felt there was something wrong with me, since all the others were doing precisely that. If only I knew, I was right!

As I grew older, I decided I didn't have to do the same stuff other people did. I just gave up of trying to be "normal". My teenage years were all lonely, never dated, only one kiss till I was twenty years old. A part of me was lonely and wanted to be loved, but another part loved to be alone... I think part of the problems we feel when we are young Saturn-Venus natives is that we feel we are not normal. If you drop this idea and start doing things your way, it will start to get a lot easier.

Oh, and BTW,

I met a couple with the aspect, or, better saying the wife had the square and the husband had the opposition... Same issues with looks and stuff, same problems, same difficulties... But once they got involved, they were more reliable than anyone you can imagine, and they were companions for life.

Venus-Saturn makes for people who are trustable to the bone, I think, and utterly commited to a relationship, once someone manages to get past the bunch of Saturn's entrance examinations, tests and delays...

RockFish said:

I think venus square Saturn closes the door of the "dating crowd" to the native. We don't deal with love and physical intimacy the same way other people do. One's got to respect oneself, I think. I hated to throw myself in discos and other places and feeling that obligation of finding someone to hook up with....... I hated kissing someone I didn't care about or barely knew. But, of course, I felt there was something wrong with me, since all the others were doing precisely that. If only I knew, I was right!

Click to expand...

Ouch. You're talking about the square, and about women only (I think), and I have the conjunction, but you could be talking about me. I also attribute the feeling of loneliness that I grew up with Venus in the 12th, and square Mars was not much help.

And this:

As I grew older, I decided I didn't have to do the same stuff other people did. I just gave up of trying to be "normal". My teenage years were all lonely, never dated, only one kiss till I was twenty years old. A part of me was lonely and wanted to be loved, but another part loved to be alone... I think part of the problems we feel when we are young Saturn-Venus natives is that we feel we are not normal. If you drop this idea and start doing things your way, it will start to get a lot easier.

Click to expand...

100% agreement here, even though it might not be astrological. My social life began in college. Before then I had none. The only thing that kept me from feeling invisible was talent in music. I got recognition for that, but almost no friends.

I know how you feel--my daughter has a tight square to Saturn in Aquarius from Merc/Venus [ Taurus/6th] and one cant help but try and imagine what we as parents are doing or not doing in relation to that conflict/opportunity.

She actually has a tight t-square to Saturn from Pluto/Scorpio, opposed Mercury/Venus/Taurus.

So far it has not seemed to affect her emotional relationships too badly. She seems to have fairly successful and healthy 'love' relationships. She is very beautiful and very talented creatively [ venus/mercury in Taurus exact trine uranus/neptune in cap ] so it brings her lots of attention and prospective friends and boyfriends.

However, the apex of the t-square ,being to Saturn /Aquarius in the third, wreaks havoc on her relationships with teachers and administrators and those in authority. It has been very frustrating for her over the years to be, in her opinion, misjudged, and misinterpreted by them. They feel as if she has an 'attitude', or that she is disrespectful, even though she never says anything bad or bratty to them. imo, she tries to avoid problems, so she kind of shuts down, and they in turn interpret that as her 'dissing' them.
Because she is very mature and very strikingly beautiful, they tend to forget she is really just a kid, and take it personally and overreact at times.

Because she has been a film and tv actress, and a succesful one, she is used to being treated as a responsible adult. So if she acts like one in school, they interpret it as her being 'too big for her britiches.' It has been difficult because she is sometimes blindsided by calls I would get from teachers, where in her opinion they 'love her',and things in class are fine, and then they call to tell me that she is 'not recognizing their authority.' She tends to
joke around in class, as if she is on a working set, and she will think it's all good, but in reality, the teacher may feel offended or take it wrong. An equal amount of teachers do LOVE her and say she is their favorite student.
However she, maybe because of the exact t-square, cannot always see which one is which.

HOW PERFECT IS THAT ASTROLOGICALLY == The afflicted Saturn/Aquarius
in mutable houses, being accused of " Not recognizing the administrations authority."

emi said:

Oh my goodness Spacecadet, that is very strange. I was looking at my son's chart when I came across some unexpected and upsetting hard aspects, one of them the tight Venus Square Saturn. It is exactly like yours! 5H Venus in Scorpio 2H Saturn in Leo. I know very little about astrology but I am learning and would like to be aware of any way I might help my son develop well, and not feel unloved or unliked or unappreaciated or un-anything (except understood). It seems so strange to me that he has the potential to feel lonely or unaccepted at home or as a child. As a mother, I am a very sensitive and loving (though discipline when needed) person. I am a double pisces, my son is scorpio sun leo ascendant. What could this mean? Can anyone give me any ideas as to how this might play out, or how i can help soften this for him? Are there any other interpretations of this aspect? I guess I am feeling a little worried and already guilty of having failed him in some way, even though he only just turned two. Thanks so much for any advice!!! Hope to learn from you all.

Emi

Click to expand...

gaer said:

Ouch. You're talking about the square, and about women only (I think), and I have the conjunction, but you could be talking about me. I also attribute the feeling of loneliness that I grew up with Venus in the 12th, and square Mars was not much help. .

Click to expand...

Ah, no, I was talking about women in the beginning, but the last two paragraphs were basically about Venus-Saturn people in general, like us.... you know, the doomed ones who will never get married, never find love, and will even manage to be widowed after NOT getting married, LOL!!!

I have

• 0 degree Venus square saturn
• Venus square Pluto
• Venus square Mars
• Venus opposite north node
• Uranus in H7

Since 19 when i had my first relatiosnhip, its been a roller coster ride. Sometimes when it gets too much...i just sit and let it flow and i don't even know why

Aqua

RockFish said:

Ah, no, I was talking about women in the beginning, but the last two paragraphs were basically about Venus-Saturn people in general, like us.... you know, the doomed ones who will never get married, never find love, and will even manage to be widowed after NOT getting married, LOL!!!

Click to expand...

Oh no, too funny!!!

At any rate, just to be a wee bit serious for a moment, I had to wait until about age 40, but I met the greatest lady in the world and we are VERY happily married. Perhaps our worst problem is that we both enjoy each other's company so much, we are actually too dependent on each other.

So I think Saturn is also "the great delayer". That doesn't mean that anyone with the square or hard aspect will not find love or happiness, but I'll wager many do indeed find it later in life.

This was an old thread, but it got my attention, and I thought I could share my opinion.

I have this square in my natalchart. I read the quote from Liz Green last night, and it somehow got me a bit depressed, but I've been thinking...

From how I look at it, this square is tough, no doubt, I have (had) really low selfesteem, and been struggling my whole life against the feeling of beeing not wanted, disliked, somehow less likeable then other people. BUT this is just thoughts, it is not the truth. The aspects doesn't indicate what will manifest itself in the real world (I think) but what kind of view we have on the world and ourself. And Saturn ofcourse is fear. Fear of rejections, fear of not suceeding in those areas. So I think the greatest part of overcomming such "bad" ascpects is to recognise them, and see how they color our view of the world. And then - not let the fear and those thoughts control our actions.

When I stop taking the initativ, in fear of beeing rejected, that is when the fear becomes true! When I start listening to that Saturnian voice in my head, that is when I become unloved for real.

I also think that Saturn is the greatest "friend" you can have when it comes to making goals for yourself, working your a** of and reaching those goals. And my goal for 2010, is to attract myself some new friends (beliving that people can like and love me), make good relationships with other people and beliving that I'm wurth all good that can come, and more!

a lovely post, thank you.

(yes its an old thread but I'm always keeping my eye on this one!)