Ok.....the keys are gone again

I did the chart when i lost them and have had a go on my own but couldnt find them....
with skyscript down my study of horary is on hold temporarily.....
I will post the chart and then do my own interpt....but it will be easier with the chart on the page.....so bare with me....

any helpers will have many good wishes for the new year!!!!!!!!!!

Righteo.....(hopeless with nowhere to refer to but hey, the forum states you gotta have a go!
mars in the 2nd.......remembering simply red in the last key horary ,she said to look in the second.......cant look up skyscript for places related to mars so my guess is hot things and sharp things......
the second is ruled by merc and merc is in the 8th.........really not sure....but they are in opposition to each other....perhaps that means something but i dont know.....
part of fortune is in the 4th so my guess is that they are at home....


(I hope noone is sniggering at my lame attempts here!)

Edit.....or am i supposed to be looking at places related to gemini?
geez i am bad at this

Liquid: A few tips...When you ask a horary, try to include pars fortuna on the chart- as pars ids very important in lost horaries.
The lost object is almost always ruled by cusp of house 2. -mercury in this case. You are ruled by the asc....Look for separating or applying aspects between your ruler and the ruler of the lost object. What is the ruler of the keys doing? What helps it? What hinders it? and most importantly, in what house is this ruler? And in what sign?
Cheers Lillyjgc

I thought i had put in POF.....will rectify....cos i know its in the 4th


Edit....ok done!

ok...
I am venus
keys are merc
venus in the 6th
merc in the 8th
makes no aspects
seperated by 7th
Merc is in the 8th in sag
sag being a fire sign....near something that has to do with heat, wall, iron or steel...
sag ruling dark places......?

how am i going here so far?

do you mind helping lilly?

where does part of fortune come in ....
its in the 4th sign leo......fireplace?

I make no aspect to the key......does that make it that i wont find them?
8th represents places near water i think?

By the way......I have a three year old ....they could be in the weirdest of places LOL

Ok: Your ruler is venus...Taurus being on the ascendant. Venus, your ruler is located in h6....the house of day to day affairs.She is applying to a square to Neptune in H9...so your mind/consciousness was distracted at the time you lost the keys. Venus is in the sign that mars rules- Scorpio and when we look to mars we see it located in the second house- the house that generally (but not always) rules the lost object. H2 has mercury ruling the cusp (in Gemini, the sign that rules mercurial matters such as short trips, neighbours and neighbourhoods). As mars rules *your ruler*, venus, it suggests you were going somewhere....all this fits as its keys we are looking for.
The ruler of the keys sits in H8....which suggests places where there is rotting vegetation. house 8 has Jupiter ruling its cusp in sagittarius- which often suggests *outdoors* in horary charts, or places where journeys are commenced.It also rules legal matters and maybe you were going somewhere to deal with such a matter.
The ruler of the keys is combust with the sun..Mercury is wedged between the sun and pluto- Now Pluto rules daek scorpionic places- like being caught between two rocks. (a rock and a hard place?) and I have known of this aspect to describe being caught down the back of a car seat, hidden from view by something like a banana skin or similar.
mercury applies to a trine to saturn, which is in house 4-your home- suggesting to me that the keys will return to the safety of your home.
The moon applies a trine to mercury too- in about 7-8 *somethings*and the moon is travelling fast in aries sign...so hopefully, *days*.
Fortunas opposition to uranus is suggestive of an unexpected discovery.
the moon will trine the sun- the sun being the thing that is hiding the keys.
Maybe star or Tik can add to this.
Cheers Lillyjgc

geez i was way off on my attempt.....!

Outside scares me a bit as we are on a forty acre property....

I believe i was going to pick up my son from the bus stop the last time i remember having them....

will clean up outside near the compost tomorrow....will look outside all the windows (amazing how much stuff gets thrown outside by my son....he loves it! bit naughty really......)

Thanks.....will look tomorrow more thoroughly......

When i find them , i am going to attach the biggest thing i can find to them!!!! that is bright, has bells and I have already put a hook near the front door for them!

LG: One last clue- the ruler of your keys is to the south of your ruler and separated by 42 degrees...not far from you but not in the same house. lgc.

LG: Some horary resources:
Ebertins Book of Horary astrology
and of course, William lilly:Christian astrology Books 1 2 and 3.
Here is a relevant section for you:


To know if it shall be recovered or not: For resolution hereof, behold the Lord of the terme of the Moon, the which is Signifier of the substance stolne to be recovered. If the Lord of the terme of the Moon, and the Lord of the house of the Moon be increasing [To encrease in motion is, whenas lately a Planet had moved slowly, and now encreases his motion, or moves more quick; to encrease in number is, when the day subsequent he is found to have moved more minutes then the day or dayes preceding.] both in motion and number, and free from infortunes; it shews it shall be recovered whole and found, and nothing diminished thereof.

Consider also the Lord of the houre, and take his testimony, as you did from the Lord of the terme of the Moon; behold also the application of the Lord of the Ascendant, unto the Lord of the terme of the Moon, or unto the Lord of the 2nd House; or if that they apply unto him, for when he doth apply unto one of them, or to both, and the Moon apply unto them both or to the Lord of the House, or if the Sun doe apply unto the Lord of his House, and the Moon be diminished in light; I meane if the Lord of the House of the Sun, doe apply to the Sun; for the state of all these doe Signifie that the thing stole shall be found, and especially if the Planet Signifier be in an angle or succedant.

Also if the Lord of the terme of the Moon, or the Lord of the House of the Moon, or the Lord of the 2nd house apply unto the

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Lord of the Ascendant, the Master of the thing lost shall recover the same. Also if the Moon or Lord of the Ascendant apply unto the Ascendant, or one of them apply unto the Lord of the 2nd House, or unto the Lord of the terme of the Moon, the thing stolne shall be had againe through inquisition and diligent search.

And if the Lord of the House of the Moon, and the Lord of the Terme of the Moon be both diminished in their motion or number, say the more part is lost and shall not be recovered.

If the Lord of the terme of the Moon, and the Lord of the house of the Moon be increasing in number and motion, and safe from ill fortunes, the thing shall be restored whole and nothing diminished; for if those Signifiers be not Cadent from angles, it Signifieth the things shall be soon recovered; but is they be in angles, it Signifieth meanly, viz. neither very soone nor very late, viz. the recovery.




Behold the application of the two Planets that Signifie the recovery, and number the Degrees that are between them, or from the one to the other, and determine dayes, weekes, yeers, or houres, in this manner; Behold the place they are in, or the place of their application; for if they be in moveable Signes, the shorter time is required, or it shal be in weeks, or in months; in fixed Signes it Signifies Moneths or Yeers; in common Signs a meane betwixt both: helpe your selfe from these judgments: or if the Significator be quick in motion, they Signifie it shall be recovered quickly, or lightly: which Significators, if they be falling from angles, signifieth a time short, wherein the Goods shall be recovered: These Judgements are made properly for this Chapter; you must not judge in other things by these, or by this Method.




The Lord of the 8th in the Ascendant, or with the Lord the

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signifies the recovery of the theft. The Lord of the 2nd in the 8th, denieth recovery.

Saturn also, or Mars, or South Node, signifieth dividing and losse of the thing, and that all shall not be recovered.

The Lord of the 2nd in the Ascendant sheweth recovery, The Lord of the Ascendant in the 2nd, signifieth recovery after long search.
If the 2nd House be hindered or the Lord thereof, it cannot be that all shall be found and recovered.

When the Lord of the Ascendant and the Moon; with the Sun, or the Lord of the 10th, or the Lord of the House of the Moon; or if the Lord of the 7th be with the Lord of the Ascendant, or have good aspect to him; or if the Lord of the 7th be in combustion; or at least the Lord of the 10th, and the Lord of the house of the Moon agree well together, upon such a position it is probable the thing lost shall and may be recovered. When both the Luminaries are under the earth it cannot be recovered,

Whatsoever is lost, the Sun together with the Moon, beholding the Ascendant cannot be lost but will, shortly be discovered.

Behold when the body of the Moon and the body of the Lord of the Ascendant, viz. when one of them applyeth bodily to the Planet that signifieth recovery; the thing stolne shall then be recovered; and if the application of the Significators be by Retrogradation, the recovery shall bee sudden, if the application be by direction, the recovery shall be before it be looked for.

Behold also the Lord of the term of the Moon, if he do apply to the same term, and the Lord of the house of the Moon applies to the same house, or when the Lord of the 2nd applies to his own house: or when any of them apply to the Ascendant; all these do signify the time of recovery.

Look also if the Part of Fortune have any testimony with the Lord of the Ascendant, or with the Moon, because when any of them apply to each other, or the Lord of the house of the Moon to the Moon, there is the time of the recovery in hope; and when the Lord of the Part of Fortune applyes to the Lord of the Ascendant, or to the 2nd house, or unto the place in which the Part of Fortune is, or to the Moon; all these signify recovery: Behold

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also how many degrees is from the planet which signifieth recovery, unto the angle he goeth first to, and the number of those degrees is the time of recovery.

To know if it shall be recovered or not: For resolution hereof, behold the Lord of the terme of the Moon, the which is Signifier of the substance stolne to be recovered. If the Lord of the terme of the Moon, and the Lord of the house of the Moon be increasing [To encrease in motion is, whenas lately a Planet had moved slowly, and now encreases his motion, or moves more quick; to encrease in number is, when the day subsequent he is found to have moved more minutes then the day or dayes preceding.] both in motion and number, and free from infortunes; it shews it shall be recovered whole and found, and nothing diminished thereof.

Consider also the Lord of the houre, and take his testimony, as you did from the Lord of the terme of the Moon; behold also the application of the Lord of the Ascendant, unto the Lord of the terme of the Moon, or unto the Lord of the 2nd House; or if that they apply unto him, for when he doth apply unto one of them, or to both, and the Moon apply unto them both or to the Lord of the House, or if the Sun doe apply unto the Lord of his House, and the Moon be diminished in light; I meane if the Lord of the House of the Sun, doe apply to the Sun; for the state of all these doe Signifie that the thing stole shall be found, and especially if the Planet Signifier be in an angle or succedant.

cheers lillyjgc


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Thankyou Lil,

i have copied and saved on my computer for reference......

THANKYOU.......those that teach a man to fish are giving him a better gift than fish and chips!l!

LG...I was doing some browsing.....apparently if the significator of the lost object is in h8 it can mean the object is above the ground. Just a thought. Lillyjgc

thanks lilly.....pehaps your time line is spot on....I went outside on a few occasions today to look (among other things)and saw 3 snakes.....Venomous snakes.....

will give it a miss till the other guy on the property gets home.....!

Ok...... the keys turned up.....my son found them in a basket near the window, south of where i sit on my computer......but i dont know how they got there as i know i had looked there for them...........Its actually really strange.....it holds his musical instruments. we were playing with them the other day and i am sure they werent there.......so if my son moved them there i dont know where he moved them from....and he cant tell me...!
says he didnt move them....only found them.....

they were about 7-8 meters from where i sit on the computer.....but you said that was time.....is that certain Lilly?

LG: Not certain it was time now- never thought of *number of degrees* indicating distance...so H8 can mean up on windowsills...(good to know this for the future). also you being venus and the object being mercury-that in itself suggests *musical instruments*-never occurred to me....
I still have great difficulty with the *timing*....your chart is dated 19 dec....can you give us the exact date you found them?Maybe we can work backwards and find what aspect in the chart accurately describes the time frame.(all part of the research).
Cheers, lillyjgc

Today the 11th, was when i found them............23 days by my counting

you may have been spot on Lilly and my son has moved them to the spot where he "found them"..........I dont know......I really thought i had looked there..........

the 2nd being merc does suggest musical instruments though..........

I cant see anything that would suggest that timing......(doesnt mean you cant though!)

3 year olds can definitely drive ya batty at times...(bless him!)......my real honest guess is he moved them.........perhaps they were there and he put them back after having them somewhere else for a while...........all i would have to have said is put your toys back/away....and he would put them back there, if thats were he got them from......that would explain me not seeing them when we were playing music recently............

LG: i went back to the chart again....it was 23 days the keys were missing...3 weeks and 2 days.....so i looked for aspects that were applying in 3.deg time...(3 weeks).
The ruler of the *end of the matter* (H4) is the sun...the sun is whats been hiding the keys so to speak....In 3.15 deg the sun will conjunct jupiter which is applying to a trine to saturn in h4....Theres a time frame that fits in real time....saturns in mutable earth so..weeks rather than days and jupiter is slow in capricorn also but at least going forward. so perhaps the house ruling the *end of the matter* gave us a clue to the correct time frame and I missed it.But next time it could be a sextile from pars to the ascendant or something! so timing really is very tricky I'm finding.
Cheers Lillyjgc

well no wonder i couldnt see anything......... i was looking in days! (didnt even think to look in weeks.......not that i have much idea at all)

geez there are so many angles to look at things from in astrology...........

discipline is the only way i am gonna learn any of this..................and some type of methodology (which seems to be my favourite word of the day!)

Good on you anyway lilly.....I found them....the chart makes some sense now (which is one of the main things i guess) and you did well....thankyou!