12th House And Involuntary Jealousy

My chart for reference: https://i.imgur.com/KOndCvC.png?1

Disclaimer:
As part of my religious/astrological belief, I believe that we are are all here by careful design and a lot of the things,people, and situations that we encounter are predetermined. Not all, but a lot.
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We know the 12th house relates to secret enemies, but I don't think it is referring to secret enemies conspiring against you consciously. With bad intent. I think this is Karma creating enemy energy through the subconscious mind of those you come in contact with.

One thing I have learned about Karmic energies, is that they are so insidious. So insidious, that you find it very hard to describe in words what's happening between you and the other people/person. Said that to say...


I feel that for some reason, the Leos that are in my life, and have been in my life, are causing me to feel involuntarily jealous.


I know how this sounds lol

Actually describing this issue in this post took me a very long time. So PLEASE take the time to try to understand whats being explained before telling me about working on myself, building goals and plans to fulfill myself...if you read closely, you'll see that that is not the problem lol

So please read before posting:

The reason I call it involuntary jealousy, is because they continuously, on cue...(like after I have already privately decided that the thing or situation, or change in question, is a real need for me)...show up with the very things that I needed, and will have gained them effortlessly. It's usually involving experiences, instances, and recognition. Intangible things.

While these very personal, very specific, intangible wants and needs can't be effortlessly delivered to me, for the Leos it all falls in place, and usually it doesn't mean half as much to them as it means to me.

The phrase, one mans treasure, another mans trash explains it.

A lot of times, I will be privately putting forth effort or charting off in my own unique direction, often struggling because of who I am, and tending to the extra steps I have to take. And then... believe it or not, here comes the Leos - charting off coincidently in my direct direction, but better. Sometimes with more support.

When I say struggling because of who I am, I'm speaking to things that I have no control over. If you have questions about this, let me know.

All in all, what I am seeing is what I can only describe as a physical manifestation of a lot of my longed for, hoped for, VERY specific experiences, being played out before me. I know this sounds dramatic

Of course it isn't possible for this to happen all of the time because like I said, it only shows up with things I hold dear to me and/or things that I struggle with.

I have 4 YODs so, the very specific things that I struggle with absolutely break me.

I keep repeating "very specific", so no one gets confused and think that I'm speaking of general things that people get jealous about. Its all very personal.

- My Secret Crush = Leos Toy

- My Secret Obsessive Thought = Leos Experience

- Me Having A Business Idea = Leos Own Sudden Business Idea Follow Through, with the website/Google SEO set up and ready to go. Got the trademark. As if done overnight. And its all collecting dust now (trash to the Leo)

You may be tempted to believe that the lesson here, is for me to go harder, at my own goals. I'm going to ask that you not let Karma off the hook so easily. My business idea, was already in motion. I was sourcing samples oversees, and just waiting on them to arrive. My products are available for sale. Leo was apparently, just bored lol

- My Struggle To Create A Specific Design = Leos Sudden Design, hilariously perfect for what I had been trying to convey. All without Leo being aware of my struggle. Another secret of mine, manifesting in Leo

- Me Sacrificing A Car for An Apartment = Leo grabbing both of them, effortlessly. Doing the same ****** work I was doing for years, BUT...Leo is doing it for 3x the pay....and also Leo gets it all 1 month after being hired.


So, after getting all of this out, I realize...that my Leo in the 12th house, connects to my Saturn in the 5th house. And speaks to creative block. Creative meaning: creating experiences, creating romances, creating manifestation. Which makes sense, however, can we all agree that this is involuntary jealousy? There are deep seated reasons why I struggle with creating experiences, romances, and manifestation. There are obstacles that will take time for me to remedy. No quick fix.

Now my only thought is, to avoid Leos or to not avoid Leos? Because I want to love them! & If this were just about, clothes, love, general attention, money, and other lifestyle things I wouldn't have a problem. But like I said, very specific, very Karmic, and very rude.


If you have Leo in the 12th house, please let me know if you encounter these things!! Especially if you have Saturn in the 5th.

And also if one of my Leo friends happens to see this (because she's into this now) I really do love ya, but Karma is a b****.

Also for the first time I feel like I'm getting a real internal understanding of how Chiron in the 11th house is playing out in my chart. The Leos that cause this reaction in me have been my closest friends. And the whole reason they breeze through my struggles is because of who I am in relation to societal standards.

And my reaction, even in this thread, is represented by Mars in the 11th house.

Ironically, I was going to create a comic to show my interactions with Leo. But it was a struggle to find a way to do it that wouldn't take all night.

I really love astrology lol I hope others can chime in

StelliumNoise said:

My chart for reference: https://i.imgur.com/KOndCvC.png?1

Disclaimer:
As part of my religious/astrological belief, I believe that we are are all here by careful design and a lot of the things,people, and situations that we encounter are predetermined. Not all, but a lot.
_______________________________________________________


We know the 12th house relates to secret enemies, but I don't think it is referring to secret enemies conspiring against you consciously. With bad intent. I think this is Karma creating enemy energy through the subconscious mind of those you come in contact with.

One thing I have learned about Karmic energies, is that they are so insidious. So insidious, that you find it very hard to describe in words what's happening between you and the other people/person. Said that to say...

I feel that for some reason, the Leos that are in my life, and have been in my life, are causing me to feel involuntarily jealous.
I know how this sounds lol

Actually describing this issue in this post took me a very long time. So PLEASE take the time to try to understand whats being explained before telling me about working on myself, building goals and plans to fulfill myself...if you read closely, you'll see that that is not the problem lol

So please read before posting:

The reason I call it involuntary jealousy, is because they continuously, on cue...(like after I have already privately decided that the thing or situation, or change in question, is a real need for me)...show up with the very things that I needed, and will have gained them effortlessly. It's usually involving experiences, instances, and recognition. Intangible things.

While these very personal, very specific, intangible wants and needs can't be effortlessly delivered to me, for the Leos it all falls in place, and usually it doesn't mean half as much to them as it means to me.

The phrase, one mans treasure, another mans trash explains it.

A lot of times, I will be privately putting forth effort or charting off in my own unique direction, often struggling because of who I am, and tending to the extra steps I have to take. And then... believe it or not, here comes the Leos - charting off coincidently in my direct direction, but better. Sometimes with more support.

What I am seeing is what I can only describe as a physical manifestation of a lot of my longed for, hoped for, VERY specific experiences, being played out before me. I know this sounds dramatic

Of course it isn't possible for this to happen all of the time because like I said, it only shows up with things I hold dear to me and/or things that I struggle with.

I have 4 YODs so, the very specific things that I struggle with absolutely break me.

I keep repeating "very specific", so no one gets confused and think that I'm speaking of general things people get jealous about. Its all very personal.

My Secret Crush = Leos Toy
My Secret Obsessive Thought = Leos Experience
Me Having A Business Idea = Leos Sudden Thought, Follow Through, with the website/Google SEO set up and ready to go. Got the trademark. As if done overnight. And its all collecting dust now (trash to the Leo)
My Struggle To Create A Specific Design = Leos Sudden Design, hilariously perfect for what I had been trying to convey. All without Leo being aware of my struggle. Another secret of mine, manifesting in Leo



So, after getting all of this out, I realize...that my Leo in the 12th house, connects to my Saturn in the 5th house. And speaks to creative block. Creative meaning: creating experiences, creating romances, creating manifestation. Which makes sense, however, can we all agree that this is involuntary jealousy? There are deep seated reasons why I struggle with creating experiences, romances, and manifestation. There are obstacles that will take time for me to remedy. No quick fix.

Now my only thought is, to avoid Leos or to not avoid Leos? Because I want to love them! & If this were just about, clothes, love, general attention, money, and other lifestyle things I wouldn't have a problem. But like I said, very specific, very Karmic, and very rude.


Also I don't want to see anyone come in here and say that there is no such thing as involuntary jealousy!

If you have Leo in the 12th house, please let me know if you encounter these things!! Especially if you have Saturn in the 5th.

Click to expand...

Hi,


I have Leo in my 12th house. Saturn is there, and its my 5th house ruler, so we do have similar placements. I don't think I'm consciously jealous of Leos, but I wouldn't write it off as 12th house expressions can be hidden from the native as I'm sure you know. I am inspired by Leos to express myself in the world and not be so in my head, but that could be more because I have 3 Leo planets so that energy runs pretty deep for me. Hmm. That's a good topic, I'm stumped. That actually kind of makes sense because a Virgo rising will try to "reign in" Leo energy in the 12th instead of just letting it create, so that might well inspire jealousy. At this point in my life, Ive learned how to access my Leo and integrate it pretty well so my Virgo gets balanced and relegated to the back seat when need be but when I was younger, I actually do remember being fervently jealous of a girl, a Leo, who was just so creative and fun and sunny, all the things I didn't allow myself to be. Is that helpful?

Starsareround said:

Hi,


I have Leo in my 12th house. Saturn is there, and its my 5th house ruler, so we do have similar placements. I don't think I'm consciously jealous of Leos, but I wouldn't write it off as 12th house expressions can be hidden from the native as I'm sure you know. I am inspired by Leos to express myself in the world and not be so in my head, but that could be more because I have 3 Leo planets so that energy runs pretty deep for me. Hmm. That's a good topic, I'm stumped. That actually kind of makes sense because a Virgo rising will try to "reign in" Leo energy in the 12th instead of just letting it create, so that might well inspire jealousy. At this point in my life, Ive learned how to access my Leo and integrate it pretty well so my Virgo gets balanced and relegated to the back seat when need be but when I was younger, I actually do remember being fervently jealous of a girl, a Leo, who was just so creative and fun and sunny, all the things I didn't allow myself to be. Is that helpful?

Click to expand...

Thank you for this! @ the bolded, I actually had a childhood friend, a Leo, who kept a journal, that we started doing shared writing in, and that was one of my introductions to writing.

However..... I don't believe a person with 4 planets in Gemini, wouldn't have eventually started writing before this journal was presented to me. I have more experiences where my own interests have somewhat forced me into writing about them, not the interest in writing itself. This is my natural energy

The whole "unconscious karmic energy" was actually being presented to me as a child because I remember feeling "mmn, this is actually something I want to do" and also feeling as though I was less than, because by birthright, her life was more exciting than mine. This is simply a fact. Where she had a loving brother, I didn't. Where she had a father, I didn't. Where she had romance tales, I didn't. So us "sharing" a journal, did nothing but make me aware of these things I didn't have.

So while I acknowledge inspiration, this is moreso speaking to negative karmic reflections. Me, the Gemini, went on to write short stories online, wrote and performed songs at school, and I have notebooks filled with poetry.

This is what I'm talking about. Can anyone really tell me, that a person with Sun, Moon, Venus, and Jupiter in Gemini, wasn't going to eventually start writing? I hope no one thinks that.

Remember, we're not talking about Leo. We're really talking about Karma and the 12th house. Sneaky stuff!

Yeah, explore that. Interesting stuff. I don't really have anything to add atm, but I'll be reading along!

Also will someone let me know if may be South Node in the 12th or just the 12th?

Interesting puzzle to solve. I would do a progressed chart of how long this will last, as all your Planets will progress to Cancer soon. I started to do it for you, but noticed I there was no birth details.

Also the current chart has too much going on, I recommend to never do the "aspect all" and leave the asteroids out of it. It makes it difficult to see higher priority items, as things are not ranked the same. One just can't see the forest for the trees this way.

To me there is always a reason for jelousy, whatever the situation , jelousy is created within oneself because something is threatened. (Pluto´s jelousy is transformative and it´s the worst for the one´s who resist it but this doesn´t seem the case.)
People will always feel that someone who never had to hardwork or went through hardship is undeserved of attaining the high realms of sucess.
This is very common, but people forget that hardwork will always win against raw talent.
If a woman isn´t properly nurtured by a mother figure , later in life she may unconsciously try to dominate their relationships and when this attitude has opposition it creates jelousy. Lack of trust within oneself.

If a man isn´t taught by a father figure how to be assertive , brave and the parent abuses authority , later the son may develop lack of trust in his capabilities , chase opposite sex , be assertive, anger issues against authority figures.

People unconsciously attract people , situations that help them heal their wounds but when it happens is usually in form of anguish and pain.

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Leo´s by nature like to be the King , Queen , they like to be the center of attention but they don´t force attention (unlike aries) , unless badly aspected. Leo´s want to be recognized for it´s uniqueness ,generosity creativity etc...
Leo is a fixed sign like , taurus , scorpio and aquarius , and like taurus and scorpio ( not sure about aquarius ) they are very prone to jelousy and possesiveness but leo´s jelousy is more superficial than the other two. Leo doesn´t mind that people are sucessful as long as he is too and the top one.

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As far as i know the south node (your leo) is what you already know and North node (aquarius ) is what you are meant to learn in this life time. The nodes are considered karmic aspects in one´s chart.
You need to go in Aquarius direction , being more detached , independent , giving yourself for a greater cause, seeing everyone´s potential and uniqueness .
You have south node conjunct ascendant, i think that you will project that into other´s more than normal, you are already conscious of this now it´s time to change your mentality.

Try to know some aquarians , you may feel conflicted at first but later you will embrace it

I´ve read that when people are unhappy it´s becase they don´t leave their south node sign. You don´t need to avoid leo´s you just need to see the other side.
Give yourself for others instead of being 100% self-centered, if you know what i mean.

bakalhau69 said:

To me there is always a reason for jelousy, whatever the situation , jelousy is created within oneself because something is threatened. (Pluto´s jelousy is transformative and it´s the worst for the one´s who resist it but this doesn´t seem the case.)
People will always feel that someone who never had to hardwork or went through hardship is undeserved of attaining the high realms of sucess.
This is very common, but people forget that hardwork will always win against raw talent.
If a woman isn´t properly nurtured by a mother figure , later in life she may unconsciously try to dominate their relationships and when this attitude has opposition it creates jelousy. Lack of trust within oneself.

If a man isn´t taught by a father figure how to be assertive , brave and the parent abuses authority , later the son may develop lack of trust in his capabilities , chase opposite sex , be assertive, anger issues against authority figures.

People unconsciously attract people , situations that help them heal their wounds but when it happens is usually in form of anguish and pain.

______________________________

Leo´s by nature like to be the King , Queen , they like to be the center of attention but they don´t force attention (unlike aries) , unless badly aspected. Leo´s want to be recognized for it´s uniqueness ,generosity creativity etc...
Leo is a fixed sign like , taurus , scorpio and aquarius , and like taurus and scorpio ( not sure about aquarius ) they are very prone to jelousy and possesiveness but leo´s jelousy is more superficial than the other two. Leo doesn´t mind that people are sucessful as long as he is too and the top one.

_______________________________________

As far as i know the south node (your leo) is what you already know and North node (aquarius ) is what you are meant to learn in this life time. The nodes are considered karmic aspects in one´s chart.
You need to go in Aquarius direction , being more detached , independent , giving yourself for a greater cause, seeing everyone´s potential and uniqueness .
You have south node conjunct ascendant, i think that you will project that into other´s more than normal, you are already conscious of this now it´s time to change your mentality.

Try to know some aquarians , you may feel conflicted at first but later you will embrace it

I´ve read that when people are unhappy it´s becase they don´t leave their south node sign. You don´t need to avoid leo´s you just need to see the other side.
Give yourself for others instead of being 100% self-centered, if you know what i mean.

Click to expand...

So you don't believe involuntary jealous is a thing?

I can't disagree with anything you've said but I don't think I succeeded in making the point about whether or not involuntary jealous was a thing or not.

The whole gist is related to the theme/understanding of the 12th house governing secret enemies.

I believe this is the nature of "secret enemies".

If someone who didn't like you was trying to make you jealous, and you could point it out, it takes the power out of the act. You can laugh and say ah i know what you're doing

Vs. Karmic interactions personally eliciting this feeling that someone is trying to throw something in your face...you don't quite know what it is, you just feel like mmn...well I guess this person is a bit better than me? When in fact, its a targeted attack.

In both situations someone is trying to out do you, but when it comes to 12th house "hidden enemies" this just adds something else to that understanding of the 12th house.

We all know we need to grow, but that doesn't change that the 12th house has a reputation for enemy/negative energy. I'll probably need to do a better write up in this and make that the focus.

I definitely think the “enmity” that goes along with a full 12th house is real. The thing is, that ends up making us tougher people, and more able to defend ourselves from subtle and/or semi-conscious attacks from others. One important lesson regarding this I’ve found is the extreme emphasis on “choosing your battles”

Much of the negative energy here does not need your attention. Does that make sense?

Starsareround said:

I definitely think the “enmity” that goes along with a full 12th house is real. The thing is, that ends up making us tougher people, and more able to defend ourselves from subtle and/or semi-conscious attacks from others. One important lesson regarding this I’ve found is the extreme emphasis on “choosing your battles”

Much of the negative energy here does not need your attention. Does that make sense?

Click to expand...

Absolutely it makes sense. But if the negative energy is within you, and you're into astrology, and also into understanding how to better yourself, its about as much attention as a homework math problem.

I'm not interesting in writing a book about it, I was interested in dialogue about 12th house energy manifesting through others. Especially because its so rarely understood. Especially because of the issues I've had with people of a certain sign, and because of that signs placement, and also back to the point of trying to dispel negative emotions within myself.

StelliumNoise said:

Absolutely it makes sense. But if the negative energy is within you, and you're into astrology, and also into understanding how to better yourself, its about as much attention as a homework math problem.

I'm not interesting in writing a book about it, I was interested in dialogue about 12th house energy manifesting through others. Especially because its so rarely understood. Especially because of the issues I've had with people of a certain sign, and because of that signs placement, and also back to the point of trying to dispel negative emotions within myself.

Click to expand...

I guess I’m not sure it’s possible to dispel negative emotions. To me, it does require attention though, to know what negative emotions are guiding me to self protective measures which are vital, and what (which as it turns out is most) negative emotions I can release back into the void untouched.

Starsareround said:

I guess I’m not sure it’s possible to dispel negative emotions. To me, it does require attention though, to know what negative emotions are guiding me to self protective measures which are vital, and what (which as it turns out is most) negative emotions I can release back into the void untouched.

Click to expand...

Sounds great and but completely unrelated

Sorry I went off topic lol I’ll let you get back to your thread. Just a ramble.

Interesting hypothesis, but I can't say that I've noted this in my experiences with either those with Sagittarius or Scorpio energy in their charts. In fact the people who I've been the closest to in recent years tended toward having stelliums in these signs.

How would such a mechanism hold up if the chart owner had the planetary energies of the signs on the 12th house cusp?

I've had that response of involuntary jealousy happen to me when I was a 9 year old kid and was reading up on the signs for the first time. I remember identifying with Aquarius, saying "ok" to Sagittarius (my sun sign), and feeling that jealousy toward Gemini. I recount this instance because of how untainted I was regarding anything astrology at that age.

In modern astrological theory, the "shadow" could show up as the opposite of the dominant sign. In my case, that is definitely Gemini which is also the cusp of the 7th house. Then my chart is polarized in such a way that a better "archetype" for shadow material would be western/7th house energy vs. 12th house energy.

How does the issue of the shadow tie into this theory of yours? Do you think it has relevance?

conspiracy theorist said:

Interesting hypothesis, but I can't say that I've noted this in my experiences with either those with Sagittarius or Scorpio energy in their charts. In fact the people who I've been the closest to in recent years tended toward having stelliums in these signs.

How would such a mechanism hold up if the chart owner had the planetary energies of the signs on the 12th house cusp?

I've had that response of involuntary jealousy happen to me when I was a 9 year old kid and was reading up on the signs for the first time. I remember identifying with Aquarius, saying "ok" to Sagittarius (my sun sign), and feeling that jealousy toward Gemini. I recount this instance because of how untainted I was regarding anything astrology at that age.

In modern astrological theory, the "shadow" could show up as the opposite of the dominant sign. In my case, that is definitely Gemini which is also the cusp of the 7th house. Then my chart is polarized in such a way that a better "archetype" for shadow material would be western/7th house energy vs. 12th house energy.

How does the issue of the shadow tie into this theory of yours? Do you think it has relevance?

Click to expand...

I believe its the Node in the 12th house, and Saturn. Also seeing interesting correlations happening with the sesqui squares in my chart.

For me my 12th house is connected to the 5th and Saturn. It may very well be a personal experience for these reasons, just wanted to see if anyone else had any similar experiences as eerie

conspiracy theorist said:

I've had that response of involuntary jealousy happen to me when I was a 9 year old kid and was reading up on the signs for the first time. I remember identifying with Aquarius, saying "ok" to Sagittarius (my sun sign), and feeling that jealousy toward Gemini. I recount this instance because of how untainted I was regarding anything astrology at that age.

In modern astrological theory, the "shadow" could show up as the opposite of the dominant sign. In my case, that is definitely Gemini which is also the cusp of the 7th house. Then my chart is polarized in such a way that a better "archetype" for shadow material would be western/7th house energy vs. 12th house energy.

How does the issue of the shadow tie into this theory of yours? Do you think it has relevance?

Click to expand...

You felt jealosed of Gemini? What qualities were you possibly jealosed of, of course if you remember that is? Perhaps it being in the 7th also correspond to open enemies. I personally cannot see that, yet. Also your moon trines your DC so that ought to help with any negative feelings thereof.

StelliumNoise said:

For me my 12th house is connected to the 5th and Saturn. It may very well be a personal experience for these reasons, just wanted to see if anyone else had any similar experiences as eerie

Click to expand...

Your case is extremely interesting and piques my problem solving antennas. If you ever post your birth details I’ll look into the why in a variety of ways.

12th house secret enemies is not involuntary jealousy from others is it? I sort of think that jealousy from others comes from themselves. Also - 12th house people tend to blur lines and misread social mores and cues - and they get in to weird situations. I never felt bold or empowered to know someone was jealous of me - I only felt scared and with cues previously unread - dipped into waters I should have noticed the red flags for.

GemwDepth said:

You felt jealosed of Gemini? What qualities were you possibly jealosed of, of course if you remember that is? Perhaps it being in the 7th also correspond to open enemies. I personally cannot see that, yet. Also your moon trines your DC so that ought to help with any negative feelings thereof.



Your case is extremely interesting and piques my problem solving antennas. If you ever post your birth details I’ll look into the why in a variety of ways.

Click to expand...

My birth details:
June 3, 1989 Washington DC
11:47 AM
Thank you!

Ok, here is what I have for you so far. I first looked at the natal, but I did not find any strong, problematic indicators, just some small ones.

I did not look at the north/south node above, yet. But I think that hypothesis above is also extremely valid. I am unsure how to interpret it via progressions so I will leave it alone at the current time.

You are going through a long term, problematic progression. Venus / Mars are in Leo in 11th (house of friendships), squaring Pluto in 2nd.

The seeds of it started around 2011, I don't know what happened then, but nothing big manifested outwardly.

All the big stuff happened around 2017, and currently coming into strong aspects now.

The bad news is that this situation will not improve until 2032-2033 with Leo women, Venus finally leaves square with Pluto and forms sexile with Jupiter in 9th.

Its also possible the Leo, female friends you do have, tend towards being Narcissistic. I wonder if some may be doing it on purpose to undermine you, but that cannot be confirmed. The secret enemy applies, but here it doesn't have much to do with the 12th house.

In 2038, the Mar Leo to Pluto square dissolves. I wonder how you do with Leo men. Mars can signify men, but it can also signify action.

My best recommendation is to avoid Leo women as close friends. This is harsh indeed, but its my take on the situation.

You can delete your birth details if too private.