Analyzing Natal Chart geometry; The Envelope figure

I've started looking at the connections between my birth chart, analyzing the geometry of the chart wheel's drawing. I noticed that I have a very distinct shape in my chart, cut through by 2 oppositions. So the shapes that show up in my chart are what looks like an Earth Grand Trine with not one, but two kite edges which form a mystic triangle (Earth/Water polarity).

Thing is I can't get over how much this shape looks like a very simplistic house, the kind a very young child would doodle.

I did some digging and discovered there is a name for this geometric shape in astrology, referred to as The Envelope. As it seems to be a rather uncommon formation, I think many people here who are serious about astrology might be interested in this. The five planets ruling this shape are evident. What influence does this exert on my chart? Or on my life? I'm willing and eager to give feedback.

If a mod could change the title to Analyzing Natal Chart geometry; The Envelope figure, I think that'd be more fitting. I discovered a name for it halfway through writing this thread (bad habit, I like doing more than one thing at a time, hence the Moon in Cancer).

Re: Analyzing the Grand Trine Kite pair forming a Mystic Rectangle/Imperfect Pentagra

Oh and there SHOULD be an aspect line drawn between Pluto and Mercury, not sure why there isn't. If you add that, what I'm talking about makes more sense. Most other charts I've drawn had that extra aspect line, not sure why this one didn't draw it. I found the shape referenced only once, on this site http://www.astrotheme.com/files/figures-composed-aspects.php scroll down to THE ENVELOPE to get an idea of what shape is on my chart and what it is.

Re: Analyzing the Grand Trine Kite pair forming a Mystic Rectangle/Imperfect Pentagra

What you have here is what would commonly be called an Intercepted Mystic Rectangle - ie an equal sided figure where one of a pair of common aspects is "intercepted" by a mid-point aspect. It's not a Kite (or Kyte) - or even a Grand Trine Kite - because that would require one of the sides of the Trine to be intercepted. The interception here is one of the long sides of the Mystic Rectangle

Nor is it an imperfect pentagram - it's an almost perfect unequal pentagon. Count the signs round the outside - you have four sextiles (2 sign aspects) and one trine (4 signs apart).

If you go to my website - http://www.sf-astroformations.org.uk/ - and look in the formations list you will find this figure listed as no 73. We called it a Big Top figure, because it is one of a group of figures/formations that we called the Circus figures. I haven't yet written up the chapter for this group, but I've got my notes on this if you want to send me a private message.

Incidentally, the reason why there is no aspect line from Mercury to Pluto is probably because the aspect angle between the two is wider than is usually allowed (by default) on astro programs for a sextile, which is generally considered as one of the middle, or even minor, aspects as opposed to the major aspects (Trine, Square, Opposition, Conjunction).

Hope this helps

Re: Analyzing the Grand Trine Kite pair forming a Mystic Rectangle/Imperfect Pentagra

LionLady said:

What you have here is what would commonly be called an Intercepted Mystic Rectangle - ie an equal sided figure where one of a pair of common aspects is "intercepted" by a mid-point aspect. It's not a Kite (or Kyte) - or even a Grand Trine Kite - because that would require one of the sides of the Trine to be intercepted. The interception here is one of the long sides of the Mystic Rectangle

Nor is it an imperfect pentagram - it's an almost perfect unequal pentagon. Count the signs round the outside - you have four sextiles (2 sign aspects) and one trine (4 signs apart).

If you go to my website - http://www.sf-astroformations.org.uk/ - and look in the formations list you will find this figure listed as no 73. We called it a Big Top figure, because it is one of a group of figures/formations that we called the Circus figures. I haven't yet written up the chapter for this group, but I've got my notes on this if you want to send me a private message.

Incidentally, the reason why there is no aspect line from Mercury to Pluto is probably because the aspect angle between the two is wider than is usually allowed (by default) on astro programs for a sextile, which is generally considered as one of the middle, or even minor, aspects as opposed to the major aspects (Trine, Square, Opposition, Conjunction).

Hope this helps

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Ah that is very helpful! Do you have any insight into the effect exerted by this aspect shape? It's a rather uncommon one and I simply can't find anything helping me to understand how it brings together the different influences composing it.

Basically, as you will have found from the list of formations this is one of a group of formations that Linda and I classed as "Circus" or "Carousel" figures; most of them have a dynamic rather than static effect in the horoscope.

The Big Top figure is a combination of two strong figures, made up largely of one of the major traditional aspects - the trine. Don't forget that the long sides of the mystic rectangle are trines.

The basic result is a parade of effects, some from the MR and some from the GT. These will actually focus on (or be controlled from) the central point of the GT, in this case Mercury, which acts as "Ringmaster". Envelope is a fair name for the form, but it does not take into account the almost constant flickering of energy between the MR and the GT.

If you think of the form as a Big Top (Circus Tent) you can see that the parade of effects will be initiated from the aspects on the short sides of the MR, circle around the GT and exit through the opposite short side of the MR.

This is a formation which will have constantly varying effects in the chart; it should also be watched very carefully at times of transits to any of the points, but particularly the MR points, because a transit to one point will affect ALL the planets in the figure.

Does this help at all?

LionLady said:

Basically, as you will have found from the list of formations this is one of a group of formations that Linda and I classed as "Circus" or "Carousel" figures; most of them have a dynamic rather than static effect in the horoscope.

The Big Top figure is a combination of two strong figures, made up largely of one of the major traditional aspects - the trine. Don't forget that the long sides of the mystic rectangle are trines.

The basic result is a parade of effects, some from the MR and some from the GT. These will actually focus on (or be controlled from) the central point of the GT, in this case Mercury, which acts as "Ringmaster". Envelope is a fair name for the form, but it does not take into account the almost constant flickering of energy between the MR and the GT.

If you think of the form as a Big Top (Circus Tent) you can see that the parade of effects will be initiated from the aspects on the short sides of the MR, circle around the GT and exit through the opposite short side of the MR.

This is a formation which will have constantly varying effects in the chart; it should also be watched very carefully at times of transits to any of the points, but particularly the MR points, because a transit to one point will affect ALL the planets in the figure.

Does this help at all?

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It does, so basically this envelope is a primarily Earth powered figure, which is telling me what kind of energy is moving around. My fiery signs seem to be mostly exempt from the envelope figure as both the Grand Trine and the Rectangle are composed of Earth and Earth/Water signs respectively. So it would seem that signs not part of this aspect shape would not be so prone to this constant flickering, right? It's carrying energy from the short side (meaning the side of Mars, would that be where the short side is?) and is it moving clockwise or counterclockwise?

Could you give an example in, I don't know, personality trait terms that might exemplify how this works? Sorry for all the questions I just really want to take full advantage of this understanding!

Zonark said:

I've started looking at the connections between my birth chart, analyzing the geometry of the chart wheel's drawing. I noticed that I have a very distinct shape in my chart, cut through by 2 oppositions. So the shapes that show up in my chart are what looks like an Earth Grand Trine with not one, but two kite edges which form a mystic triangle (Earth/Water polarity).

Thing is I can't get over how much this shape looks like a very simplistic house, the kind a very young child would doodle.

I did some digging and discovered there is a name for this geometric shape in astrology, referred to as The Envelope.[no it's not a cradle configuration] As it seems to be a rather uncommon formation, I think many people here who are serious about astrology might be interested in this. The five planets ruling this shape are evident. What influence does this exert on my chart? Or on my life? I'm willing and eager to give feedback.

If a mod could change the title to Analyzing Natal Chart geometry; The Envelope figure, I think that'd be more fitting. I discovered a name for it halfway through writing this thread (bad habit, I like doing more than one thing at a time, hence the Moon in Cancer).

Click to expand...

you have a kite and mystic rectangle.
Kite
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/aspectpatterns.html
“Whenever a person has a kite in his chart, he is considered to be more likely to be successful in his endeavours because the opposition will give him the push to go out and conquer the obstacles that are presented to him, and the sextiles will give him a little bit more harmony once he has achieved his goals.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kite_aspect
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/aspect-patterns2.html
http://www.evolvingdoor.ca/glossary/glossary_k.htm


Mystic Rectangle also know as Grand Rectangle
http://www.astro.com/mtp/mtpt82_e.htm
http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/mysticrectangle_wedge.shtml
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects2.html
http://www.therealastrology.com/HTML/FAQS/AspectPatterns.html#Mystic Rectangle
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/aspect-patterns2.html

I hope you do something physcial like sports, martial arts, bungje jumping, mountain climbing with your mars opp pluto...

http://www.celestialperspective.com/library/marspluto-aspectswhat-determines-theyre
mars/Pluto aspects by Donna Cunningham

Zonark said:

It does, so basically this envelope is a primarily Earth powered figure, which is telling me what kind of energy is moving around. My fiery signs seem to be mostly exempt from the envelope figure as both the Grand Trine and the Rectangle are composed of Earth and Earth/Water signs respectively. So it would seem that signs not part of this aspect shape would not be so prone to this constant flickering, right? It's carrying energy from the short side (meaning the side of Mars, would that be where the short side is?) and is it moving clockwise or counterclockwise?

Could you give an example in, I don't know, personality trait terms that might exemplify how this works? Sorry for all the questions I just really want to take full advantage of this understanding!

Click to expand...

You have to remember the name - "Big Top". Think of the circus parade of performers - they can come in from either side - and leave through either side - so either the Saturn/Pluto entrance or the Mars/Chiron(Moon) entrance. Because the Grand Trine is in Earth - and its common side with the MR is the Saturn/Mars aspect the Big Top itself is fairly stable - it won't be rocked by much short of an earthquake, especially since Saturn is in Capricorn!

So, the Saturn/Pluto influence may make you cautious in making decisions - you won't share your thoughts with anyone till you have considered carefully.

The Mars/Chiron may make you inclined to want to rush to help where you think you can see a way you can help, regardless of whether those concerned are asking for (or even in need of) help.

Without going into a full blown analysis of your chart, that's the best I can do for now.

Cradle configuration
two x talent triangles or minor grand trines, the outer two linked by an opposition. It seems to be a mixed blessing, with potential but to due them being easy aspects can lack the follow through to achieve. In male chats can lean towards extrovert, and in female charts passive, introvert qualities there is a need to be careful not to scatter energies without achieving much.

“The Cradle configuration has two Wedge figures in it, providing two different ways to potentially escape from the stress - or transform it into creativity”.
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/cradle_configuration.html

http://www.astrotheme.com/files/figu...ed-aspects.php
http://cafeastrology.com/articles/aspectpatterns.html
Cafeastrology calls this aspect Trapeze, which with my own research is not, but something different. The glossary below explains the differences.
http://www.dxpnet.com/opinion/astrology/I-so-TOTALLY-have-a-Cradle-2271823.asp
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1554
http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology...e_cradle.shtml

“The apex planet can be a source of great creativity that channels the stress into positive, constructive activity, although the stress of the opposition may or may not finally be resolved. The Cradle has two Wedge figures in it, providing two different ways to potentially escape from the stress — or transform it into creativity. However, with so much opportunity to avoid problems, the temptation to take the easy way out is very strong. As a result, with a Cradle configuration in their chart may find it very difficult to resolve/heal the conflicts in their life represented by the opposition”
http://www.evolvingdoor.ca/glossary/glossary_bc.htm
This last link is the best information available on this aspect

Cradle cont/….
“The more the person can learn to face and resolve the conflict of the opposition, the more they will be able to use the talents and natural abilities in the Cradle in ways that are healthy, constructive and healing. On the other hand, the avoidance of problems can generate some pretty impressive creative ability, in the broadest sense of the word - not just artistic but any innovative, original or imaginative approach to the obstacles and challenges of life.”
http://www.evolvingdoor.ca/glossary/glossary_bc.htm

Age 6 anyobe die or disappear? Solar arc MC onto pluot
Same time SA Asc conj Saturn, just guessing here but did father disappear?
Age 2 did you have any mysterious illnesses?

astrologer50 said:

Cradle configuration
two x talent triangles or minor grand trines, the outer two linked by an opposition.
<snip>
Cafeastrology calls this aspect Trapeze,

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It's true that the cradle configuration is also called the trapeze - but this is NOT a Cradle/Trapeze.

The Cradle/Trapeze is restricted to one half of the chart - the sequence of aspects is (in terms of signs making up the aspects) 2:2:2:6, whereas this figure - the Envelope or Big Top - occupies the whole chart, the sequence of aspects being 2:2:4:2:2. Or, to put it another way, the Trapeze/Cradle has only four points in it, and the Envelope/Big Top has 5.

LionLady said:

It's true that the cradle configuration is also called the trapeze - but this is NOT a Cradle/Trapeze. [I agree they are two different things]

The Cradle/Trapeze is restricted to one half of the chart - the sequence of aspects is (in terms of signs making up the aspects) 2:2:2:6, whereas this figure - the Envelope or Big Top - occupies the whole chart, the sequence of aspects being 2:2:4:2:2. Or, to put it another way, the Trapeze/Cradle has only four points in it, and the Envelope/Big Top has 5.

Click to expand...

In all the research I've seen it doesn't mention this, do you have any sources to cite? I do feel it valid nonetheless

astrologer50 said:

In all the research I've seen it doesn't mention this, do you have any sources to cite? I do feel it valid nonetheless

Click to expand...

From the sources you quoted in your first reply:

From - http://cafeastrology.com/articles/aspectpatterns.html

Trapeze, Cradle
A configuration of aspects formed when four points of a horoscope are uniformly connected by three sextiles, with the first and last points in opposition.

From - http://www.evolvingdoor.ca/glossary/glossary_bc.htm

Cradle
An aspect configuration consisting of two planets in an opposition aspect. There are two more planets, each forming a trine aspect to one side of the opposition and a sextile to the other.

From - http://www.lunarliving.org/astrology/grandsextile_cradle.shtml

Cradle
The Cradle is formed when four planets are connected by three sextile aspects, two trine aspects and one opposition. It is also called a Half-Hexagon because it looks like one-half of a Grand Hexagon

So they are all saying that the Cradle is formed by four planets (or points such as Asc sometimes).

And then from this site - which Zonark quoted originally
http://www.astrotheme.com/files/figures-composed-aspects.php

THE ENVELOPE

The Envelope, an unusual figure formed by a mystic rectangle, to which an additional planet is linked by a sextile.

THE CRADLE

The Cradle, a figure with 4 planets forming 3 sextiles, 2 trines and 1 opposition in one same area of the Zodiac.

Finally, from my own website, detailing a great deal of research I have done on formations including articles published several years ago.

http://sf-astroformations.org.uk

In the list of formations the Cradle is listed is formation no 5, Sextile Boat, and the Envelope as formation no 73, Big Top.

It would appear that the envelope figure described on the cafeastrology site is a quintile variant on the cradle figure with angles in the order q:semiq:q: oppn (where q = quintile) - but it is certainly NOT the envelope described on the astrotheme website, which the illustration clearly shows as having five points not four.

Does this help?

Not really, you point was that it HAD to be in only HALF the chart to be valid. We have already established it is not a Trapeze. All you had done is repost my links but not show your points....

astrologer50 said:

Not really, you point was that it HAD to be in only HALF the chart to be valid. We have already established it is not a Trapeze. All you had done is repost my links but not show your points....

Click to expand...

If you have a sequence of aspects which are:

sextile
sextile
sextile
opposition

the widest angle is the opposition, and wherever the opposition occurs the three sextiles will be in one half of the chart to the side of the opposition. I defy you to draw this sequence of aspects so that the four points are in more than half of the chart.

Wherever you place the opposition you will STILL have a sequence of three sextiles from one end or the other of the opposition.

LionLady said:

It's true that the cradle configuration is also called the trapeze - but this is NOT a Cradle/Trapeze.

The Cradle/Trapeze is restricted to one half of the chart - the sequence of aspects is (in terms of signs making up the aspects) 2:2:2:6, whereas this figure - the Envelope or Big Top - occupies the whole chart, the sequence of aspects being 2:2:4:2:2. Or, to put it another way, the Trapeze/Cradle has only four points in it, and the Envelope/Big Top has 5.

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you are preaching to the converted in fact I HAVE this cradle, but you have not explained or cited a source to say it can/should ONLY be in *half the chart***

astrologer50 said:

you are preaching to the converted in fact I HAVE this cradle, but you have not explained or cited a source to say it can/should ONLY be in *half the chart***

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My "source" is basic geometry.

If you have a closed four point figure (or shape) with all the points on the circumference of a circle (a horoscope), and one side of the figure is a line which divides the circle in two (an opposition aspect), then the figure can only be placed in one half of the circle.

In other words, any formation where the widest angle between two adjacent points/planets is an opposition will have all the points (or planets) in one half of the chart.


If you label the points in order around the circle (horoscope) as a,b,c,d etc, and the line between a&b, or b&c, or c&d, or d&a divides the circle (horoscope) in two - as an opposition aspect does - then you are left with only half the chart to place the remaining points in, otherwise the points are not labelled in sequence.

Say the angle between a & b is an opposition, 180deg, dividing the circle in half. You then place point c to the right of point b. If you place point d to the left of b, ie in the other half of the chart, then d is out of sequence, and should be labelled as b, and the widest angle between two adjacent points is no longer 180 deg.

As I said, there are no astrological references for this - it is basic geometry.

basic geometry or not, I would say it *doesn't matter* as an opposition aspect will cut a chart in half. It doesn't matter whether it's left or right, up OR down....

astrologer50 said:

basic geometry or not, I would say it *doesn't matter* as an opposition aspect will cut a chart in half. It doesn't matter whether it's left or right, up OR down....

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I guess that's what I was trying to say - because the widest aspect of the cradle is an opposition aspect, the figure - taken overall - will only ever occupy half of the chart - right-left, up, down or at an angle across ways

finally, shall we put this down to mercury retrograde then???