Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Natal Astrology > Houses & cusps

Houses & cusps For discussions on houses and house cusps (i.e. planets on angles, house stelliums and so on)


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 01-30-2014, 08:36 PM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 15,286
Family troubles: the 3rd and 4th houses

Oftentimes people turn to astrology to deal with unhappy, troubling issues that aren't going away by pasting a happy smiley-face on them. One of these is growing up with a dysfunctional family; or dealing with family dysfunctionality long after everyone's grown up. I thought it might be useful to discuss how these are likely to show up in the horoscope, and how astrology can be helpful.

The third house is the traditional house of your siblings, if any. The fourth house one's home and early childhood conditioning. Traditionally the 4th was the "house of the father," in the sense of one's paternal inheritance, such as family name or land. (From which we also get real-estate.) Modern astrologers, who like to match up signs and houses by number are more apt to see the 4th house as more like the 4th sign (Cancer) and equate it to the mother. I personally think it could go either way, so perhaps it's best just to see whether your IC and 4th house feels more like Mom or Dad.

Afflicted planets in the 3rd and 4th houses, notably with aspects to or from the heavy outer planets are one astrological indication of a difficult early home life.

If you have no planets in these houses but still experience/d severe problems with close family members, look at the planet(s) ruling the cusp of your 3rd and/or 4th house cusp. (I. e., with Aries on your IC, look for Mars.) What are these planets like by their own house & aspects? They may be off in a different part of your horoscope, but will nevertheless affect the houses that they rule.

I am starting another thread on Chiron, which I think can be painful even if well aspected, so it is sort of a special case.

There's a lot more to be said, or maybe you have your own questions, so I am hoping that we can start a general discussion of the astrology involved for those of us without story-book happy families.

__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 01-30-2014 at 11:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to waybread For This Useful Post:
07.Re (01-31-2014), Lascivious (02-06-2014), StillOne (01-31-2014), Stinky (01-31-2014)
  #2  
Unread 01-30-2014, 09:32 PM
kimbermoon's Avatar
kimbermoon kimbermoon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mission B.C
Posts: 2,679
Re: Family troubles: the 3rd and 4th houses

Dysfunctional family:
in keeping with your statement “Afflicted planets in the 3rd and 4th houses, notably with aspects to or from the heavy outer planets are one astrological indication of a difficult early home life.”
for me the third is Saturn ruled Capricorn [disappointment and karmic challenge]
with Chiron therein; the need for healing relating to siblings;
Saturn joined with Neptune in the 12th of Scorpio, 'the great sacrifice in my life”; inappropriate sexual and emotional abuse from an older brother; in later life his vengeance towards me [Scorpio] was repeated over and over again by betrayal;
squares Venus in Leo; [the apex of a Yod] my sister rebelled against me because of jealousy and anger;
the IC is 25 Aquarius [ freedom, separation ], ruled by Uranus in the 9th; conjunct Mercury [siblings/separation] and South Node [misfortune]; sq Neptune; betrayal and deception;
Uranus ssq Moon in Pisces in the 4th, [Moon configured in a Yod configuration, with Venus and Mars] ; instability and chaos in the childhood home; it was akin to being part of a circus most of the time; [ Venus in Leo yod];
Moon is ssq both Uranus and Neptune, rulers of the 3rd and 4th; emotionally scarred.
Definite disconnect and estrangement from 4 siblings after the death of our parents [Gemini rules the 8th H];
Pretty much speaks for itself don't you think?

Another factor: Chiron in Capricorn in the 3rd
squares Neptune/Saturn; opposes Uranus; and both Mercury and Venus; inconjunct Sun; how might you interpret that for me? Thanks for the post.
__________________
Namaste

Last edited by kimbermoon; 01-30-2014 at 09:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to kimbermoon For This Useful Post:
Lascivious (02-06-2014), StillOne (01-31-2014), Stinky (01-31-2014)
  #3  
Unread 01-30-2014, 11:38 PM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 15,286
Re: Family troubles: the 3rd and 4th houses

Kimbermoon, it is always hard to say without seeing the entire chart-- and I just started a new thread on Chiron! At: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=72008

As you know, the third house deals with siblings; and Chiron, supposedly with the wound that doesn't heal. We can make some kind of accommodation with troubled siblings (provided we don't need to break off contact altogether.) Maybe this accommodation is remembering their birthdays or any nieces and nephews, but creating a lot of emotional distance between us and the siblings.

To me, the hard part is the line between forgiving vs. condoning; or emotional distancing without breaking off all contact.

I think Neptune adds some poignancy to your Chiron. Neptune suggests disillusionment: I think betrayal fits in here. At its best, Neptune suggests universal compassion and forgiveness, but this may be too much to ask. Then Saturn shows feelings of limitation, frustration. The inconjunct suggests some botheration, yet not sufficiently demanding to fix it, or easy enough to feel at peace with it.

From an evolutionary spiritual perspective, perhaps these hard aspects are there to push your Chiron into the wisdom bracket. It is kind of like an an athlete (now that the Olympics are coming up!) who wouldn't ski the easy way down the mountain if there were more challenging jumps and to master. Possibly you are a spiritual athlete, who incarnated without wanting the easy route.

Of course, as you point out, there are additional parent and home life points in the chart; the moon being a huge one.
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 01-30-2014 at 11:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to waybread For This Useful Post:
kimbermoon (01-31-2014), Stinky (01-31-2014)
  #4  
Unread 01-31-2014, 07:25 PM
kimbermoon's Avatar
kimbermoon kimbermoon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mission B.C
Posts: 2,679
Re: Family troubles: the 3rd and 4th houses

words of wisdom well received. Thanks much
__________________
Namaste
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kimbermoon For This Useful Post:
waybread (01-31-2014)
  #5  
Unread 01-31-2014, 07:46 PM
mdinaz's Avatar
mdinaz mdinaz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,379
Re: Family troubles: the 3rd and 4th houses

Traditionally 4th/Moon is mother and 10th/Saturn is father, and this is because in past times in the societies in which much of astrology was developed, the father ruled the house and was the bread-winner and the mother was the caregiver and nurturer. In modern times this can be radically different in which the mother can be the dominant parent and bread-winner, or one of the parents can instead be another relative or even a sibling. So when bringing up the parents, I'll just mention the "father figure" or "dominant parent" and let the client provide the background.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mdinaz For This Useful Post:
kimbermoon (01-31-2014)
  #6  
Unread 01-31-2014, 08:26 PM
waybread's Avatar
waybread waybread is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: A class M planet near you
Posts: 15,286
Re: Family troubles: the 3rd and 4th houses

In Hellenistic astrology, the 4th was the "house of the father" with the moon joying in the 3rd house, called "goddess" and "brothers." The 7th house might have stood in for women generally, but the mother came to be associated with the 10th as the wife of the father; i.e., the 7th from the 4th house. There isn't a planet that joys in the 4th: the two main "dad" planets, the sun and Saturn joy in the 9th and 12th, respectively; with Jupiter in the 11th.

I was truly prepared to give the 4th house a go as the traditional house of the father; but actually with my own parents, my IC is a better match with my mother; and my MC, with my father.
__________________
My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 02-02-2014, 11:31 AM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dairyland
Posts: 2,045
Re: Family troubles: the 3rd and 4th houses

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Oftentimes people turn to astrology to deal with unhappy, troubling issues that aren't going away by pasting a happy smiley-face on them. One of these is growing up with a dysfunctional family; or dealing with family dysfunctionality long after everyone's grown up. I thought it might be useful to discuss how these are likely to show up in the horoscope, and how astrology can be helpful.

The third house is the traditional house of your siblings, if any. The fourth house one's home and early childhood conditioning.
Using tropical rather than whole sign astrology, I believe the sign on the cusp of a house says a lot about how the individual deals with the subject matter and circumstances of that house.
For a long while I have been contemplating the 1-6th and 7-12th sign relevance on cusps. E.g. In the case of 3rd house 'siblings, schooling, and local environment relationships', I query whether the subject, through sign character, influences the circumstances of that house him/herself(1-6th signs) or is personally influenced by others outside him/herself (7th-12th sign) regarding the circumstances of that house.

Using Kimbermoon's position, merely as an example, Capricorn on the 3rd house could relate to coldness, harshness, deprivation, distance, as a result of others attitudes towards the individual, rather than coming from the individual him/herself. The 3rd house 'mental processing' might have the same result yet the cause would come from a different corner.
Libra on 3rd house cusp could find that people's communicative attitude towards them, and what they think of them, develops their own mental processes, whilst Aries on the cusp will actively stimulate and follow his own pattern of thought.

It may sound simple 1st year astrology, yet it's surprising how often may be said of a 3rd house Libra effect, 'you have the ability to contemplate opposites (or undecisively dither)' before making a final decision, whereas that decision is invariably based upon conditions and circumstances outside of one's self. Aries doesn't have that issue; there is no 'other' as far as its mental relationship processing is concerned.

Just 1/2 cent worth of thought.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Frisiangal For This Useful Post:
kimbermoon (02-02-2014), waybread (02-02-2014)
  #8  
Unread 02-02-2014, 07:27 PM
kimbermoon's Avatar
kimbermoon kimbermoon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mission B.C
Posts: 2,679
Re: Family troubles: the 3rd and 4th houses

From my own experience I can agree that what I received from my siblings was very much in keeping with the Capricorn tendencies. There was a frequent theme of them trying to be authoritarian/domineering over me, in one way or another, and when I resisted they would stop communicating with me. In turn I was made to feel that I was responsible for them in attempting to help them 'grow up'. I feel that my parents expected me to be the responsible one, and thus the burden of responsibility haunted me for many years. It can be uncertain as to whether the interpretations do apply to the individual, or whether they reflect the influence from others.
__________________
Namaste
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kimbermoon For This Useful Post:
Stinky (02-04-2014)
Reply

Tags
family, houses, troubles

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.