Adolf Hitler?
- Thread starter sallyd
- Start date
sallyd said:I'm not too happy about this chappie having Taurus sun and Libra rising - same as me....
What in his chart made him a 'much worse person than me' please?
Hitler was a special case and I doubt that having his Sun and Rising sign is going to plague you as his chart was very particular.
What is your chart like?
Do you have Moon/Jupiter conjunct in Capricorn opposing Chiron?
I think the most disturblng aspect in his chart was Mars/Venus conjunction square saturn which made for one with ambition beyond the norm.He was driven to become.That is ok to have ambition,but it's what you do with it and we all know what he did with it.
Then there is the 0Degree Taurus sun and the militant aspect of his Aries Mercury which was conjunct that Sun.He was bent on being something.It's sad he just did not get through art school and drew up postcards for the rest of his life.
Hitler was a special case and Taurus/Libra are quite compatible.It's what you do with the placements that counts.
Has nothing to do with the Hitler.Don't worry about it as there are plenty of Tau\Lib combo's that have great personalities.We only see a few Hitlers in a century like Pol Pots.
I will say one thing which is Hitler is one of my favorite charts as for a life account to study.His whole life is recorded almost down to the minute for most everything he did which make s for a great case study.
In my opinion Hitler was an evil genius.His quintile formation makes for a brilliant mind gone awry.He was fixated on hate due to his Mercury and Ve/Ma combination.
Another trait was the Uranus in the chart.The location it s found makes for brilliance ,but it is also at a place that is known for being the worst in the chart.
Hitler was not known for being stable.
And do you have 0Degrees Taurus for a Sun degree?If so I would caution against being to possesed about anything. I have heard those having this degree for the Sun seem to become obsessed with relationships or even a song.It seems the transition from Aries to Taurus can be difficult for some.
Mn/Ju opposite to Chiron also was a difficult combo for old Hit.He felt himself to be the victim of everything down to his death.He did not take responsibilty for anything.He blamed it on the Jews.If it had not been the Jews it would have been the German people which is what he did.
Like I said there are to many other factors that made Ol Hit wha he was.It was nothing to do with the Sun\Riding sign.In fact it gave a cerain charisma that he used for demonic purposes.
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Arian Maverick
Well-known member
Here's a link to Hitler's chart from Astrotheme for reference: Adolphe HITLER
I don't have this Ascendant/Sun combination, but I think it's normal to feel disturbed to have any placements in common with such a tyrannical dictator; I felt this way when I discovered that I share Saturn and Pluto house placements with Hitler as well as a Sun-Mercury conjunction.
Yet if you dissected each part of his chart, I'm sure you could find millions of people who share several sign placements or house placements in common because there are only so many combinations.
As Sag Moon explained, though, it takes much more than one or two individual placements to make such an individual--and "make" probably isn't even the right word to use because as the saying goes, "the stars incline; they do not impel."
If you are familiar with the Harry Potter series, you may remember the similarities between Harry and Voldemort, and how Dumbledore stated that it is our choices that matter, that make us who we are. If Dumbledore was familiar with astrology, I'm sure he would agree that our natal charts do not make us do or become anything that we do not wish to do or become.
Goodness, I'm such a dork!
Arian Maverick
I don't have this Ascendant/Sun combination, but I think it's normal to feel disturbed to have any placements in common with such a tyrannical dictator; I felt this way when I discovered that I share Saturn and Pluto house placements with Hitler as well as a Sun-Mercury conjunction.
Yet if you dissected each part of his chart, I'm sure you could find millions of people who share several sign placements or house placements in common because there are only so many combinations.
As Sag Moon explained, though, it takes much more than one or two individual placements to make such an individual--and "make" probably isn't even the right word to use because as the saying goes, "the stars incline; they do not impel."
If you are familiar with the Harry Potter series, you may remember the similarities between Harry and Voldemort, and how Dumbledore stated that it is our choices that matter, that make us who we are. If Dumbledore was familiar with astrology, I'm sure he would agree that our natal charts do not make us do or become anything that we do not wish to do or become.
Goodness, I'm such a dork!
Arian Maverick
strangely enough, i do have moon/jupiter conjunct, but they are in aries..... opposite me ascendant....
http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?rs=3&btyp=w2gw&&cid=eovfileCcdYyP-u1118308657
any ideas as to whether i am up for attempted world domination? (don't feel like it today to be honest....)
any ideas as to whether i am up for attempted world domination? (don't feel like it today to be honest....)
Well all genius have have eccentric behavior like hanging their laundy indoors.
His wsa perverse sex and wanting to find a scapegoat which he could blame everything on so he could kill them.
If he had rebuilt Germany and produced arms for other countries he would have went down as a great leader.As it was he had more devious plans which wer evil.
I do not think the same can b said of Stalin.
Interesting lives!
His wsa perverse sex and wanting to find a scapegoat which he could blame everything on so he could kill them.
If he had rebuilt Germany and produced arms for other countries he would have went down as a great leader.As it was he had more devious plans which wer evil.
I do not think the same can b said of Stalin.
Interesting lives!
Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
Traditional interpretation of Hitler's chart a la John Frawley and the rules handed down via Ptolemy.
In Hitler's chart there is no strong planet...Jupiter is in its fall, Luna and Mars in their detriment, Mercury and Sol are peregrine. This is a strong indication of degeneracy of the nature. Even Venus, which has strength by virtue of falling in her own Sign, Taurus, is grievously handicapped by being retrograde and by its immediate contact with the two malefics, Mars and Saturn. This contact is all the more serious because both the malefics are weak, and the weaker the malefics are, the worse their effects. Occuring in fixed Signs, this gives an unshakeable malaise. With most of the planets above the horizon and in angular houses, this will find its outlet in the world: were the planets hidden below the horizon, Hitler would have spent his life thinking dreadful thoughts rather than acting them out...but with all these planets severly afflicted, the outcome is not so favorable. Ptolemy suggests that in these cases, it "makes his subjects robbers, pirates, adultereres, submissive to disgraceful treatement (we might recall Hitler's sexcual predilections), takers of base profits, godless, without affection, insulting, crafty, thieves, perjerers, murderers, poisoners, impious, robbers of temples and of tombs, and utterly depraved." All this would manifest through the degerately choleric temperament. The fixed-star lore of Ptolemaic tradition then fills the portrait out. Sol, Luna, and the Midheaven of Hitler's chart were all conjoined to malevolent fixed stars. These, by turns, were associated with "piled-up corpses", "destruction by fire or war", "unscrupulous defeat", and a "violent death".
No modern moonspeak necessary.
In Hitler's chart there is no strong planet...Jupiter is in its fall, Luna and Mars in their detriment, Mercury and Sol are peregrine. This is a strong indication of degeneracy of the nature. Even Venus, which has strength by virtue of falling in her own Sign, Taurus, is grievously handicapped by being retrograde and by its immediate contact with the two malefics, Mars and Saturn. This contact is all the more serious because both the malefics are weak, and the weaker the malefics are, the worse their effects. Occuring in fixed Signs, this gives an unshakeable malaise. With most of the planets above the horizon and in angular houses, this will find its outlet in the world: were the planets hidden below the horizon, Hitler would have spent his life thinking dreadful thoughts rather than acting them out...but with all these planets severly afflicted, the outcome is not so favorable. Ptolemy suggests that in these cases, it "makes his subjects robbers, pirates, adultereres, submissive to disgraceful treatement (we might recall Hitler's sexcual predilections), takers of base profits, godless, without affection, insulting, crafty, thieves, perjerers, murderers, poisoners, impious, robbers of temples and of tombs, and utterly depraved." All this would manifest through the degerately choleric temperament. The fixed-star lore of Ptolemaic tradition then fills the portrait out. Sol, Luna, and the Midheaven of Hitler's chart were all conjoined to malevolent fixed stars. These, by turns, were associated with "piled-up corpses", "destruction by fire or war", "unscrupulous defeat", and a "violent death".
No modern moonspeak necessary.
tikana
Well-known member
sallyd said:I'm not too happy about this chappie having Taurus sun and Libra rising - same as me....
What in his chart made him a 'much worse person than me' please?
lol! do you know how many peopel on earth with that combination? lol
you dont have people mailing you letters with "i wanna have your baby", or do you?
and almost everyone wants to rule the world except me .. i just want to move to my own planet and rule the planet say hmmm Pluto!
T
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Nexus7
Well-known member
Oh I don't know, it is interesting to see a more traditional judgement of Hitler's chart that I have not come up with before, but I reckon his chart could be mined for still more modern moonspeak.
He had those classic horrendous afflictions of Saturn on the Midheaven squaring his 7th House planets and we hear that his father used to beat him black and blue and leave him out in the cold at night whilst his mother indulged him which apparently, can set a very dangerous (as in psychopathic) precedent later in life, if any capactiy for violence is shown in the chart (which, here it was).
Something that I suspect my make some astrologers uncomfortable is that it can be forgotten that Hitler was strongly Uranian - he had Uranus on his Ascendant, although I noticve now that Liz Greene didn't, when she wrote about this Promethean planet. Here is that spark of genius along with the desire to create a better, more ideal and just world - Uranus in Libra. His Uranus in the 12th, so he probably had the ability to pick up with what was in the air anyway - and what was in the air at the time was a great deal of talk about eugenics and perfecting human beings. His interest in occultism drew him towards a secret society inspired by Theosophists called the Thules, for example.
I believe there are some pretty dodgy midpoints involving Saturn and Pluto to delicate and pivotal Sun/Moon midpoint, though I would have to look at my Charles Harvey/Mike Harding book to check tat out precisley. (that combo is shared with Moa Tse Tung). So if there are any budding dictators here, you might like to check out what aspects are hitting your Sun/Moon midpoint. And maybe Asc/MC too. And it does not matter what signs either Sun or Mon fall in or for that mater, Sun/Moon midpoint - it is just the midpoints themselves that count.
Hitler also had a some very powerful harmonics in his 4th, 5th and 7th harmonics - if anyone is interested in seeing any of these, pls let me know and I will see what I can do.
SaggMoon, have you read Mike Harding's Hymmns to the Ancient Gods? That also covers pivotal moments in Hitler's life, Harding does a brilliant study there key events in his 'career' and how similar key transits to various midpoints are repeated beofre with his mother'd death, something happening to his father, and so on.
He had those classic horrendous afflictions of Saturn on the Midheaven squaring his 7th House planets and we hear that his father used to beat him black and blue and leave him out in the cold at night whilst his mother indulged him which apparently, can set a very dangerous (as in psychopathic) precedent later in life, if any capactiy for violence is shown in the chart (which, here it was).
Something that I suspect my make some astrologers uncomfortable is that it can be forgotten that Hitler was strongly Uranian - he had Uranus on his Ascendant, although I noticve now that Liz Greene didn't, when she wrote about this Promethean planet. Here is that spark of genius along with the desire to create a better, more ideal and just world - Uranus in Libra. His Uranus in the 12th, so he probably had the ability to pick up with what was in the air anyway - and what was in the air at the time was a great deal of talk about eugenics and perfecting human beings. His interest in occultism drew him towards a secret society inspired by Theosophists called the Thules, for example.
I believe there are some pretty dodgy midpoints involving Saturn and Pluto to delicate and pivotal Sun/Moon midpoint, though I would have to look at my Charles Harvey/Mike Harding book to check tat out precisley. (that combo is shared with Moa Tse Tung). So if there are any budding dictators here, you might like to check out what aspects are hitting your Sun/Moon midpoint. And maybe Asc/MC too. And it does not matter what signs either Sun or Mon fall in or for that mater, Sun/Moon midpoint - it is just the midpoints themselves that count.
Hitler also had a some very powerful harmonics in his 4th, 5th and 7th harmonics - if anyone is interested in seeing any of these, pls let me know and I will see what I can do.
SaggMoon, have you read Mike Harding's Hymmns to the Ancient Gods? That also covers pivotal moments in Hitler's life, Harding does a brilliant study there key events in his 'career' and how similar key transits to various midpoints are repeated beofre with his mother'd death, something happening to his father, and so on.
Moulin
Well-known member
Hitler has always fascinated me. He was perhaps the most mesmorizing speaker, exceptionally intelligent with a creative flair.
I know that had I been in Germany in 30's I would have eaten up every word of his. He was one of those souls whom was either destined for greatness or extreme evilness. Amazing how he flipped from one to the other and it is also interesting to view objectively the karma/fate of the Jewish people at that time and since.
Today roles are semi reversed and the Israeli's now do a scaled down version of what was done to them, to the Palestinian's.
Incredible to observe how people feel victimized sometimes and use this to fund/fuel/shape their futures and yet the negativity of holding onto all that karma rubs off in a homeopathic dose!
When the world learns from it's mistakes, only then can we truly evolve as a planet. I think Hitler's evil ways spread much further than just Germany and although l despise his evil deeds with all of my heart and soul l can't help but feel that he was destined for this role somehow. Is there any way, in his chart that he could have been anything else? other than the evil lord, that is.
The whole thing is just so sad and really so vile... makes my skin crawl.
I know that had I been in Germany in 30's I would have eaten up every word of his. He was one of those souls whom was either destined for greatness or extreme evilness. Amazing how he flipped from one to the other and it is also interesting to view objectively the karma/fate of the Jewish people at that time and since.
Today roles are semi reversed and the Israeli's now do a scaled down version of what was done to them, to the Palestinian's.
Incredible to observe how people feel victimized sometimes and use this to fund/fuel/shape their futures and yet the negativity of holding onto all that karma rubs off in a homeopathic dose!
When the world learns from it's mistakes, only then can we truly evolve as a planet. I think Hitler's evil ways spread much further than just Germany and although l despise his evil deeds with all of my heart and soul l can't help but feel that he was destined for this role somehow. Is there any way, in his chart that he could have been anything else? other than the evil lord, that is.
The whole thing is just so sad and really so vile... makes my skin crawl.
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Nexus7
Well-known member
In fact, Hitler's chart does lay out the harsh/abusive father indulgent mother quite well. Moon-Jupiter withou or without oppositions to Chiron might have been a litle theatrical, sentimental and animal loving, but then it would have to be seen in connection with the cruelty implied by Venus/Mars squares to the Saturn on the mIdheaven.
Awakened_Pisces
Well-known member
The North Node-South Node Axis is quite telling. Needless to say, I don't think he at all led his proper destiny(Cancer). He led a very Capricorn-ish life. Head strong.
athan
Well-known member
What do you think. Libra or Scorpio rising?
I don't know why but I have always taken him for a Scorpio ascedant guy...and now just looking at the picture...I don't find him as a handsome Libra..more like a decisive nose and jaw Scorpio...His complexion reminds me of a Scorpio cousin of mine....
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Nexus7
Well-known member
Actually I am sure he had Libra rising. In pictures of him as a middle-aged man his eyebrows seem a lile raised, which spells Libra to me. He also had Uranus on the Ascendant and as Liz Greene lugubriously pointed out, his desire to perfect the world was certainly Uranian enough. Uranus can tend to split and polarise too - and wih the unresolved Saturn squares on his MC, it is not so hard to see why his social idealsim had to involve he extrems of scapegoating it did.
He had some pretty heavy-duty midpoints from Saturn, Pluto and Urnaus to his Sun too, though f anyone remembers with more accuracy what was going on there, I would be pleased to hear it.
He had some pretty heavy-duty midpoints from Saturn, Pluto and Urnaus to his Sun too, though f anyone remembers with more accuracy what was going on there, I would be pleased to hear it.
unusual_suspect
Well-known member
He was actually in to some serious occult mumbo jumbo and was taking a lot of peyote too. This all seems very Uranian if you ask me. He also took methamphetamine daily, his doctor injected him with it!
RockFish
Well-known member
I was told once by an astrologier that I had similar mercury and thinking process to Hitler.
This kind of amuses me
Fret not. Hitler was born just four days after Charles Chaplin, same year.
You must have similar Mercury and thinking process to the genius Chaplin as well............
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unusual_suspect
Well-known member
Do you think that his Pluto and Neptune conjunction in the 8th house could point to his involvement in unsavoury occult practises, also Neptune makes a hard aspect to his north node and there is also a hard aspect to Uranus in the 12th from the North Node.
I have read some fascinating books about his involvement with the Thule Society and Vril Society which are essentially occult orders. My point being that he believed that what he was doing had some higher spiritual purpose.
I have read some fascinating books about his involvement with the Thule Society and Vril Society which are essentially occult orders. My point being that he believed that what he was doing had some higher spiritual purpose.
R4VEN
Well-known member
I have to agree with you there. I have known many a Libra rising person with `piercing blue eyes', something they seem to know how to use as a tool of `persuasion'!!
Hitler's use of language, his ability to drum up energy and emotion in his speeches is particularly Libra Asc. Not all Libra Asc people are `really nice guys'.
Just a couple of other observations from Hitler's chart (using the one on astrotheme):
- Chiron is in Cancer (Deutchland, Deutchland, uber alles... sorry if spelling is incorrect!!) and in the 9th, so this can describe his belief system re how he perceived the future of Germany/homeland.
- Chiron opposes Moon conj Jupiter in Cap in 3rd house. This gave him incredible perception about how and when to act, but Chiron in opposition to the Moon can also describe someone who has experienced significant boundary invasion (as in abuse) in their early lives, and so his own sense of his boundaries - both personal and macro - were quite skewed. He seemed to have seen himself as Germany.
- In searching for a Mars connection which could also further account for his masculinity/father issues, I found that the Chiron/Mars MP is conjunct his natal Pluto in the 8th - surely that is a dangerous placement for a man so severely abused by his father.
gimzo23
Well-known member
I saw parts of a documentary on all the failed attempts on his life on TV recently. The guy apparently survived 42 planned plots on him! Really makes you wonder. But would be interesting to see if something in his chart hints for such an extreme case of luck. I guess his chart must be one of the most analyzed charts there is, so this probably has been looked at and analyzed deeply already. Someone put up a link once with charts of survivors and non-survivors of school gun attacks. If I remember correctly, among other things, (certain) angular planets and positions and certain fixed stars were often present or non-present and apparently deciding over surviving or not. I'm not sure about the sample size though.