Why I hate myself?

I was told a person learns to hate himself if his parents did the same to him. Does astrology support that?.

Self-esteem has to do with the moon and second house. The moon is in fall in my chart and saturn is in the second house. Does that mean low self-esteem?.

Is the moon a symbol for my mother?.


Thank you.

My own view is that is not something that is prescribed by a chart...though trendency to depression may mean you are more sensitive to life as it were.

We all have the free will to change how we feel about ourselves....and bringing in the challenge of self love into our lifes is a very very important one for me.

The moon can mean your mother....or your own core emotional body....or the feminine aspect of you. It is a bigger concept if you let it be. I do think there is a danger of personifying the planets outside of you....as I think it distances the integration that astrology can help with.

FleaXX

Michael said:

I was told a person learns to hate himself if his parents did the same to him. Does astrology support that?.

Self-esteem has to do with the moon and second house. The moon is in fall in my chart and saturn is in the second house. Does that mean low self-esteem?.

Is the moon a symbol for my mother?.


Thank you.

Click to expand...

I've understood that the Moon is does represent the Mother, but also the more instinctual drives and underlying unconscious motivations. Have you heard this before?

Personally I consider the problem to be centered on a powerful but suppressed Venus versus a powerful activated Mars/Sun/Leo + complex ascendant situation (parallel of declinations especially involving the ascendant), however I will be going into that in the further material on your natal chart which I am planning to PM you hopefully soon.

(Note to AW members: just so as not to be cryptic, my above statement is based upon:
-Venus parallel of declination with ascendant degree, under Leo Manilius decan of Virgo, thus sub-disposited by Sun
-Venus conjunct Mars (this being a strong conjunction as both planets are on same side of ecliptic declination)-Mars is the most elevated planet in chart-in the fiery Leo, disposited by the Sun,; Venus is in Manilius decan of Taurus, and thus in its own decanate rulership, again emphasizing the Venus influence' while Mars is in Leo and disposited by the Sun and also is in the Aries Manilius decan of Leo, thus Mars is also in its decanate rulership, emphasizing the Mars influence in the equation
-ascendant degree in Virgo BUT in Manilius decan of Leo, and ascendant degree is in a strong (same side of ecliptic declination) conjunction with the Sun, all of these factors emphasizing the Sun influence in the equation)

I have tendencys of self-hatered... But I was indeed loved by my parents (still are).

I have pluto in second house. And saturn-mars conjunction square moon-venus-conjunction.

Iwonderhow much self-hatredis generated by shame, as a small child becomes moreself-conscious. Perhaps most people, even loving parents, haveinherited at least a little, thoroughly Freudian disgust with the body and its products, of which the baby is so charmingly unaware.

Then there is the emergence of less attractive emotions in addition to melingand crying, as the baby gets older: anger, tantrums, hate, yes, sexuality too, and much may depend on how such emtions are received in the first instance....

Saturn/Pluto are generally seenas the repository of all these 'basement' feelings, wherethe socialising child learns to Take Part in Society.

The Moon my indeed be about experience of nurturing, then again, the Sun can be about those first, shy steps towards dynamic self-expression.

I think, Michael, self-hatred is some thing that can be, should be, outgrown, and there is maybe no reason why you should not. Your Sun looks a little exposed in the First House - expressive house for a self-expressive principle, but in a somewhat shy, self-effacing Sign. And Virgo has been known to be self-critical. Perhaps you need to be constructively self-improving instead. And a Scorpio Moon square Mars - I have heard it said that Scorpio may feel that nobody on the planet has all the deep,dark, destructive emotions that it alone harbours in its bosom, but look around, and you may well find that that is not the case either. Perhaps your anger was not well-recieved in the first instance either, so maybe you need to find healthy outlets for your anger and capacity for self-assertion.

My two cents. Or pennies, or forint.

Self-hatred is best conquered through learning to love the Mother within. You should appreciate your Lunar qualities, however they are, for you need them.

I feel it's related to your Saturn which only has two aspects sextile to neptune and conjunction to pluto.
"Saturn’s" influence seems to be more obvious in the houses than in the signs ‑ can rule the life with an iron rod, although invisible, by undermining the sense of ­self‑worth and making it difficult for the individual to permit any close emotional contacts.

Saturn's sign indicates what you find uncomfortable and must learn to manage.

Where and how you feel a lack of confidence -- the house position of Saturn defines where you need to establish your skills, an issue you worry about and wish you could depend on !

Saturn in the 2nd house
· There can be gain through inheritance.
· This person does not gain inward peace unless he has learned to share what he has with others. Real estate or anything to do with land is a good investment.
· There is a need to re-evaluate personal beliefs, values and attitudes and find a more stable basis from which to operate.
· Too much materialism and possessiveness can be present.
· There may be a fear of poverty, as a result these people are careful with money. But excessive caution or meanness can lead to lost financial opportunities. Any purchase must be of practical use and value for money.

Either there was too much structure and discipline or not enough
Prog moon has just gone over natal saturn, which can make one feel like withdrawing emotionally, cause financial problems and depression.

One has to decide to hate themselves. Self-loathing is rampant in the western world, esepcially, it seems, in America. It isn't inherited, although environment does have a lot to do with our challenges.

The question is, Will you decide to love yourself instead of hate/loathe? This is not an astrological matter. It matters not how someone might go about self-loathing because of what is in the birth chart or what one's parents did. It is a personal choice to love yourself and that is not vanity or ego. Loving yourself means being kind in your thoughts to yourself, just as you would want others to be. You cannot expect from others what you are not willing to give yourself.

Michael, I think many of us have been through this one, and I am not sure there is a single astro-signature for it. If misery loves company, you've got lots of company--but our charts may look very different from yours.

I think it starts with the parents or other major influences in a child's life: school is a problem oftentimes. Some kids are shamed or ridiculed and then they internalize it. If you had a strict religious upbringing, it may be hard to shake the guilt it induces.

As an adult, you may have behaviours that pop out and seem good at the time, but then later shame catches up. This might happen with your Chiron highly elevated in the 9th opposing your Jupiter/Uranus in the third house of communication. Neptune square Mercury/sun can also lead to low self esteem when this trickster shows the disillusionment side of his nature.

More to the point, how do you learn to live a happy life?

1. I don't know what is going on in your life, but if you could step aside and look at it objectively, you would probably note that you have an OK kind of life. So far as I know you're not posting from jail, you seem to be thoughtful and articulate, and with any luck you're not a substance abuser. [If you are the latter, a big part of your wellness project is getting sober.] I am learning to come to terms with having an OK life. Not a brilliant life, but one that works on a modest level.

2. If you think about things that make you happy, try to incorporate more of them in your life. Even if you're not in a relationship or don't have much money, there are so many things in life that are cheap or free. This might be listening to your favorite music more often. In my case, I find that getting out into beautiful natural environments is helpful. A walk on the beach, for example.

3. Volunteer at a place that serves really misfortunate people. Or try to be helpful to people on the Internet. As the Bible puts it, there are the poor and the "poor in spirit." When you do something for somebody else who needs a helping hand, it takes your focus off of your own problems.

4. Once in a while, extreme anxiety and low self-esteem has a physical, medical cause. If it's been a while since you've had a medical check-up, it might be time to get one. Your doctor could also refer you to a psychologist or psychiatrist if it seems there is a medical issue such as depression.

Good luck, Michael.

Kannon said:

One has to decide to hate themselves. Self-loathing is rampant in the western world, esepcially, it seems, in America. It isn't inherited, although environment does have a lot to do with our challenges.

The question is, Will you decide to love yourself instead of hate/loathe? This is not an astrological matter. It matters not how someone might go about self-loathing because of what is in the birth chart or what one's parents did. It is a personal choice to love yourself and that is not vanity or ego. Loving yourself means being kind in your thoughts to yourself, just as you would want others to be. You cannot expect from others what you are not willing to give yourself.

Click to expand...

I think most things in astrology has to do with choices. And beeing aware of what make a person hate himself can make it easier to consiously choose not to do it.
I belive that the birth chart can explain why a person easier hate himself and turn things inwards instead of outwards to other people for example.

My auntie has the previous Pluto Saturn conjunction some 33 years before you.
She struggled with self esteem issues for years. But when she had a health crisis she began to work on unravelling the issues & the road towards nurturing the person she came in to take care of primarily ie herself. ie she worked hard to recover from her health crisis turned her around to internalise the importance for her of loving life.

Moon in Scorpio and Pluto Saturn both feel deeply. As time goes we learn how to support these parts of ourselves with our sun as we grow into our sun.
Your journey is to be an interresting & rewarding road to self mastery.
Your Mars is also in a powerful Leonine placement. He can pick you up & dust you off & get you started again (as that olde song goes) when you feel down

Kannon said:

One has to decide to hate themselves. Self-loathing is rampant in the western world, esepcially, it seems, in America. It isn't inherited, although environment does have a lot to do with our challenges.

The question is, Will you decide to love yourself instead of hate/loathe? This is not an astrological matter. It matters not how someone might go about self-loathing because of what is in the birth chart or what one's parents did. It is a personal choice to love yourself and that is not vanity or ego. Loving yourself means being kind in your thoughts to yourself, just as you would want others to be. You cannot expect from others what you are not willing to give yourself.

Click to expand...

I think you are right a positive mental attitude goes a long long way. I think it's a mistake to be so addicted to astrology that you live your life by it/through it. We are all captain's of our own ships, but to me at any rate it's ALL about the Soul's Lessons and what we want to work on to acheive some growth....

I think my self-loathing may have to do with an excessive identification with the ego. In other words with a false sense of self created by parents and society. That model is not useful anymore and it's showing.

I think it helps to realize that we do not actually create our thoughts, although it might appear like we do. In actuality, thoughts are spontaneous manifestations within our consciousness.

So even thoughts about hating oneself are not necessarily bad... it is better not to try and force a cover of false positivity over it, because then this feeling will slip into the unconscious and cause even more problems!

Instead, see if you can "be the witness" of the thoughts... allow the thoughts to exist, but withdraw your belief from them.


"I hate myself." Does that not imply that there are 2 "selves"? "I" and "myself"? Then who is the real "I"?

The real "I" is the one that can witness the self... the ego. Let the ego exist as it is... you don't need to eradicate it. Simply realize that you are not it, because you are the observer of it.

I don't know how much sense that made, but here's a video on the topic for those interested:

Transcending Ego

Kannon said:

One has to decide to hate themselves. Self-loathing is rampant in the western world, esepcially, it seems, in America. It isn't inherited, although environment does have a lot to do with our challenges.

The question is, Will you decide to love yourself instead of hate/loathe? This is not an astrological matter. It matters not how someone might go about self-loathing because of what is in the birth chart or what one's parents did. It is a personal choice to love yourself and that is not vanity or ego. Loving yourself means being kind in your thoughts to yourself, just as you would want others to be. You cannot expect from others what you are not willing to give yourself.

Click to expand...

I see what you're saying, Kannon. But it's just not that simple as a choice when you have deeply ingrained tendencies to what the OP is calling "self-hatred". If it were merely a choice, we could resolve this problem once and for all for everyone on earth. Not easy. There are deeply ingrained parental issues, psychological and biological tendencies to battle.

I just have to speak up when I hear the law of attraction and blame-the- victim-sounding viewpoints unleash themselves. It's really unfair sometimes.

Of course, learning to love yourself is possible - but it is hard to learn in the face of psychology and biology.

eviltwin said:

"I hate myself." Does that not imply that there are 2 "selves"? "I" and "myself"? Then who is the real "I"?

The real "I" is the one that can witness the self... the ego. Let the ego exist as it is... you don't need to eradicate it. Simply realize that you are not it, because you are the observer of it.

Click to expand...

I agree that the real "I" is not my ego, but you contradict yourself when you put the ego and the self as equals. The ego is a false self and it has to change because it's not useful anymore to me. Ego has to serve the Spirit, not viceversa.

I think self-loathing signals a period of personal transformation, so it's not a bad thing per se. Unless you want to be irresponsible and engage in self-destructive behavior, as drug abuse, alcoholism, etc.

eviltwin said:

I think it helps to realize that we do not actually create our thoughts, although it might appear like we do. In actuality, thoughts are spontaneous manifestations within our consciousness.

So even thoughts about hating oneself are not necessarily bad... it is better not to try and force a cover of false positivity over it, because then this feeling will slip into the unconscious and cause even more problems!

Instead, see if you can "be the witness" of the thoughts... allow the thoughts to exist, but withdraw your belief from them.


"I hate myself." Does that not imply that there are 2 "selves"? "I" and "myself"? Then who is the real "I"?

The real "I" is the one that can witness the self... the ego. Let the ego exist as it is... you don't need to eradicate it. Simply realize that you are not it, because you are the observer of it.

I don't know how much sense that made, but here's a video on the topic for those interested:

Transcending Ego

Click to expand...

I agree with what you are saying! I think it was a very good post! It's fruitfull to become aware that we do not create our thoughts, at least not the first one, but we can choose how to handle it. - Act upon it, contradict it, ignore it for example. And not beat ourself up because we are getting these thoughts... accepting it is the way of freeing ourself from it, in my opinion!

And I agree to what SagiCap is saying. Learning to love yourself is work, and effort over time! And can for some be harder than for others.

Kannon said:

One has to decide to hate themselves. Self-loathing is rampant in the western world, esepcially, it seems, in America. It isn't inherited, although environment does have a lot to do with our challenges.

The question is, Will you decide to love yourself instead of hate/loathe? This is not an astrological matter. It matters not how someone might go about self-loathing because of what is in the birth chart or what one's parents did. It is a personal choice to love yourself and that is not vanity or ego. Loving yourself means being kind in your thoughts to yourself, just as you would want others to be. You cannot expect from others what you are not willing to give yourself.

Click to expand...

Kannon, very wise words to say!

I also think that if you are having self-worth issues that maybe going to a counselor to help you work out some of the personal issues that are interfering with your life! They help in re-establishing new goals in cognitive processes to help the individual to cope more! It really is a change in how one thinks like a restructuring tool in the mind.. Just an idea..