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  #1  
Unread 08-29-2015, 04:58 PM
Mggirl Mggirl is offline
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I don't act like my sun

I have never in my life identified with being a Gemini and I am wondering what in my chart sort of overthrew the characeteristics of my sun. I know that it is common under times of stress to identify more with your moon sign, which I do as a Capricorn moon. But even when I am not under stress I probably act more like a Capricorn or a Scorpio than anything else. I agree with everything else in my chart, libra rising, Taurus Mars, cancer Venus and Mercury. Rather than being friendly, talkative, outgoing, energetic or mischievous I am shy, brooding, low energy, and extremely practicle. even when I meet others with those more stereotypical Gemini traits, I don't get along with them... They annoy me. How did I turn out so anti Gemini? Any insights as to what has made me a very serious, hardworking, pessimistic introvert would be appreciated.
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Unread 08-29-2015, 05:08 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

Your Sun sign represents qualities you should develope through life, not something you express by default (this is from astrological theories, not my research). I don't have any Gemini in my chart, and I am attracted to them.

I don't feel much as my Aries Sun either, but at least more than I did in the past. Maybe it is true that the native developes this traits through personal development. (?)
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  #3  
Unread 08-29-2015, 05:12 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Originally Posted by demetraceres View Post
Your Sun sign represents qualities you should develope through life, not something you express by default (this is from astrological theories, not my research). I don't have any Gemini in my chart, and I am attracted to them.

I don't feel much as my Aries Sun either, but at least more than I did in the past. Maybe it is true that the native developes this traits through personal development. (?)
That's interesting, I've never heard it explained like that before. Perhaps I will find myself being more relaxed as I get older
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Unread 08-29-2015, 06:09 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

Reading your post and before to look at your chart, I thought that the Saturn characteristics was probably strong in it.
Indeed, Saturn is in aspect towards Venus (Lord 1), Sun and Jupiter.
I add that the ruler by exaltation for Libra Ascendant is as well Saturn. Recently I read that Sahl said that both Libra and Capricorn are "dark signs", probably because Saturn has a major dignity in these signs.

The Sun rules your 11th House, your friends. Are your friends talkative, do they act like a Gemini Sun (a bit more than you)?

Last edited by urano; 08-29-2015 at 06:15 PM.
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Unread 08-29-2015, 07:03 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Reading your post and before to look at your chart, I thought that the Saturn characteristics was probably strong in it.
Indeed, Saturn is in aspect towards Venus (Lord 1), Sun and Jupiter.
I add that the ruler by exaltation for Libra Ascendant is as well Saturn. Recently I read that Sahl said that both Libra and Capricorn are "dark signs", probably because Saturn has a major dignity in these signs.

The Sun rules your 11th House, your friends. Are your friends talkative, do they act like a Gemini Sun (a bit more than you)?
Again,very interesting. I've never heard of libra being dark before. I always thought of it as being much more light hearted. Due to being air.

My friends are very similar in temperament to me. However, they are much more relaxed and not nearly as moody as I am. My two best friends love to talk about themselves, a trait I lack as a very private person, and frequently tell me they find something I say or do to be cold or harsh. So I guess they do act a bit more Gemini than I do.
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Unread 08-30-2015, 06:58 AM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Originally Posted by demetraceres View Post
Your Sun sign represents qualities you should develope through life, not something you express by default (this is from astrological theories, not my research).
I'd take this one a step further. The sun represents your core personality, and its placement shows what your core personality needs most for its growth. The sign that it's in indicates the kind of growth that you need. Gemini is about communication: receiving and transmitting information. While that can mean talking--hence the stereotype of the incurable Gemini chatterbox--it also means listening. Some people respond to that Gemini call by becoming big talkers. Others become better listeners.

And we're not just talking about literal talking and listening, but also figurative. Gemini's indicators also include writing, teaching, storytelling, media, observation, languages, and non-verbal communication.

There's another reason for the "Gemini" traits you mention being associated with that sun sign: Mercury, which is the ruler of Gemini, is associated with being talkative, impulsive, energetic, etc. A well placed and well aspected--or perhaps unaspected--Mercury is likely to create that kind of personality, unless other chart factors balance that out. If Mercury is in Gemini, it's in its domain, making its energy especially strong, and if the sun is also in Gemini, Mercury has even greater influence because it disposits the sun. Mercury is always in either the same sign as the sun or one of the signs next door, so many people with the sun in Gemini also have Mercury in Gemini. That gives Geminis greater odds of having a runaway Mercury than other sun signs. Cancers and Tauruses can also have Mercury in Gemini, but since they have a different sun sign, their Mercury doesn't have the added strength of being the sun's dispositor.

But you don't have Mercury in Gemini, you have it in the much quieter and more introverted Cancer. That placement, along with several other chart factors, contributes to making you a quieter, more introverted kind of Gemini. You still have communication as a key developmental theme, but there's a Cancerian quiet and sensitivity to it. You're likely to be very sensitive to others (Libra rising with chart ruling Venus and sun sign ruler Mercury in Cancer), and if you are, it stands to reason that you're more a listener than a talker, in both literal and figurative senses.

House placement is also key here. While your sun's sign shows you what kind of growth you need, its house placement shows in what area of your life this growth needs to take place. Eighth house is one of the introverted, hidden houses. And it's the native house of Scorpio....
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Originally Posted by Mggirl View Post
I have never in my life identified with being a Gemini and I am wondering what in my chart sort of overthrew the characeteristics of my sun. I know that it is common under times of stress to identify more with your moon sign, which I do as a Capricorn moon. But even when I am not under stress I probably act more like a Capricorn or a Scorpio than anything else.
There's a reason for your Scorpio-like qualities: they're part of your sun sign. When you have an eighth house sun, a Scorpio kind of message gets added to the mix of whatever sun sign you have. So not only are you a Gemini with Cancer and Libra influences (and Capricorn, too), it's as if your sun were 50% Scorpio and 50% Gemini.
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Unread 08-30-2015, 07:06 AM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Originally Posted by Mggirl View Post
I have never in my life identified with being a Gemini and I am wondering what in my chart sort of overthrew the characeteristics of my sun. I know that it is common under times of stress to identify more with your moon sign, which I do as a Capricorn moon. But even when I am not under stress I probably act more like a Capricorn or a Scorpio than anything else. I agree with everything else in my chart, libra rising, Taurus Mars, cancer Venus and Mercury. Rather than being friendly, talkative, outgoing, energetic or mischievous I am shy, brooding, low energy, and extremely practicle. even when I meet others with those more stereotypical Gemini traits, I don't get along with them... They annoy me. How did I turn out so anti Gemini? Any insights as to what has made me a very serious, hardworking, pessimistic introvert would be appreciated.
Well, if you use sidereal, you're a Taurus!

Anyways, it takes a while to grow into your sun sign. Usually after age 30 you'll feel more sure about it.

Another possibility could be that you've been growing up around very strong personalities that didn't allow you to actually be yourself and sort of forced you to adapt their way of thinking, feeling and doing things, so that you are not really your natural self.
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  #8  
Unread 08-30-2015, 12:43 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
I'd take this one a step further. The sun represents your core personality, and its placement shows what your core personality needs most for its growth. The sign that it's in indicates the kind of growth that you need. Gemini is about communication: receiving and transmitting information. While that can mean talking--hence the stereotype of the incurable Gemini chatterbox--it also means listening. Some people respond to that Gemini call by becoming big talkers. Others become better listeners.

And we're not just talking about literal talking and listening, but also figurative. Gemini's indicators also include writing, teaching, storytelling, media, observation, languages, and non-verbal communication.

There's another reason for the "Gemini" traits you mention being associated with that sun sign: Mercury, which is the ruler of Gemini, is associated with being talkative, impulsive, energetic, etc. A well placed and well aspected--or perhaps unaspected--Mercury is likely to create that kind of personality, unless other chart factors balance that out. If Mercury is in Gemini, it's in its domain, making its energy especially strong, and if the sun is also in Gemini, Mercury has even greater influence because it disposits the sun. Mercury is always in either the same sign as the sun or one of the signs next door, so many people with the sun in Gemini also have Mercury in Gemini. That gives Geminis greater odds of having a runaway Mercury than other sun signs. Cancers and Tauruses can also have Mercury in Gemini, but since they have a different sun sign, their Mercury doesn't have the added strength of being the sun's dispositor.

But you don't have Mercury in Gemini, you have it in the much quieter and more introverted Cancer. That placement, along with several other chart factors, contributes to making you a quieter, more introverted kind of Gemini. You still have communication as a key developmental theme, but there's a Cancerian quiet and sensitivity to it. You're likely to be very sensitive to others (Libra rising with chart ruling Venus and sun sign ruler Mercury in Cancer), and if you are, it stands to reason that you're more a listener than a talker, in both literal and figurative senses.

House placement is also key here. While your sun's sign shows you what kind of growth you need, its house placement shows in what area of your life this growth needs to take place. Eighth house is one of the introverted, hidden houses. And it's the native house of Scorpio....

There's a reason for your Scorpio-like qualities: they're part of your sun sign. When you have an eighth house sun, a Scorpio kind of message gets added to the mix of whatever sun sign you have. So not only are you a Gemini with Cancer and Libra influences (and Capricorn, too), it's as if your sun were 50% Scorpio and 50% Gemini.
Omg, I am an amazing listener. Sometimes I've thought I have a recording device where my brain should be. I have scared people with my ability to remember almost everything they say and when they said it. In addition, I am very sensitive to recognizing voices and accents My current job is based on having very strong listening skills. I also watch everything and have the same uncanny ability to remember everything I see as well on pick up on patterns in behavior. My libra influences must work hard to remind me of my manners, or I will openly stare at people until they get uncomfortable and leave.

As for being sensitive, my biggest secret is that I am terribly sensitive to how people are feeling. Though my moon stifles my emotions while my Mars makes my temper nonexistent. My Achilles heel is other people's strong emotion. I feel everything. They don't even have to say anything but if they are very sad, scared, or angry, it's like it causes me physical pain. Then my cancer influences want to wrap them in a blanket and spoon feed them until it's better..... Despite the fact that I am a social moron who creeps people out and can be very cruel at times I am my own parradox
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  #9  
Unread 08-30-2015, 12:54 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Well, if you use sidereal, you're a Taurus!

Anyways, it takes a while to grow into your sun sign. Usually after age 30 you'll feel more sure about it.

Another possibility could be that you've been growing up around very strong personalities that didn't allow you to actually be yourself and sort of forced you to adapt their way of thinking, feeling and doing things, so that you are not really your natural self.
Right! I would be awesome at being a Taurus lol.

I am only in my early twenties, so I guess the resounding word is that I'll grow into it.

Although, my upbringing did require my to adapt to my situation. I know it's so stereotypical to be the Capricorn moon with a tough childhood, but I did. My parents had very strong Scorpio and Taurus influences... I made no sense to them and vice versa. The Taurus person thought I was too sensitive and the Scorpio thought I was heartless, accusing me of being a sociopath in occasion. Both expected me to take on extreme amounts of responsibility And neither were very found of aimless chatter. Perhaps it takes until age 30 to outgrow childhood influences that attempt to shape your personality.
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Unread 08-30-2015, 01:48 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Originally Posted by Mggirl View Post

I have never in my life identified with being a Gemini and I am wondering what in my chart sort of overthrew the characeteristics of my sun. I know that it is common under times of stress to identify more with your moon sign, which I do as a Capricorn moon. But even when I am not under stress I probably act more like a Capricorn or a Scorpio than anything else. I agree with everything else in my chart, libra rising, Taurus Mars, cancer Venus and Mercury. Rather than being friendly, talkative, outgoing, energetic or mischievous I am shy, brooding, low energy, and extremely practicle. even when I meet others with those more stereotypical Gemini traits, I don't get along with them... They annoy me. How did I turn out so anti Gemini? Any insights as to what has made me a very serious, hardworking, pessimistic introvert would be appreciated.
Your natal Gemini sun is in challenging square aspect to 'serious SATURN'
and
your natal Cancer Mercury's ruler the Moon is in Saturn's other home, Aquarius
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Unread 08-31-2015, 01:09 AM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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your natal Cancer Mercury's ruler the Moon is in Saturn's other home, Aquarius
No, her moon is in late Capricorn. The way the chart's drawn, the moon glyph looks like it's in Aquarius because the moon is sharing its spot with Uranus and Neptune, and there isn't room to put all those glyphs exactly where they belong.
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I am only in my early twenties, so I guess the resounding word is that I'll grow into it.
You already have grown into it. You are exactly the kind of Gemini that your chart has set you up to be.

Growing into your sun sign doesn't mean you start looking more and more like the cookbook astrology version of your sun sign. It just means that you develop more in the way that your sun's placement calls for. For you, that's developing as a communicator, and you're already a good way in. The best communicators listen more than they talk. It's a myth that you should be an outgoing chatterbox if you're a Gemini. Sure, some Geminis are, but they have the chart setup to be that kind of Gemini.

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Although, my upbringing did require my to adapt to my situation. I know it's so stereotypical to be the Capricorn moon with a tough childhood, but I did. My parents had very strong Scorpio and Taurus influences... I made no sense to them and vice versa. The Taurus person thought I was too sensitive and the Scorpio thought I was heartless, accusing me of being a sociopath in occasion. Both expected me to take on extreme amounts of responsibility And neither were very found of aimless chatter.
That fits pretty well with your sun's placement, too. Gemini can indicate the kind of situation in which you need to think on your feet, be quick, in survival mode. Eighth house (and Scorpio, and Pluto, which are relevant here, too) can encompass abusive situations, mind games, that kind of thing.

Pluto and Scorpio are relevant here because of the north/south node picture. South node indicates past influences. It can be read as a past life story, and often is, but it can also be read as the familial and societal influences that were present before you were born and shaped your early life. South node in the eighth house, in Taurus, with an opposition from Pluto in Scorpio, could indicate that kind of mental abuse.

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Perhaps it takes until age 30 to outgrow childhood influences that attempt to shape your personality.
I wouldn't say you ever outgrow childhood influences, just re-evaluate them, and maybe change your relationship to them. Your personality is already shaped. It can, of course, be shaped further, and can go in a new direction if need be.

The good news is that if something truly harmful was done to you as a child, it is possible to heal from that and change the effects... with work. A Scorpio north node, conjunct Pluto, and eighth house sun, suggest Scorpio/eighth house kind of growth for you: working with the psyche, the collective unconscious; Gemini adds storytelling to the picture (one of Gemini's archetypes is the Storyteller).
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Unread 08-31-2015, 06:12 AM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Right! I would be awesome at being a Taurus lol.

I am only in my early twenties, so I guess the resounding word is that I'll grow into it.

Although, my upbringing did require my to adapt to my situation. I know it's so stereotypical to be the Capricorn moon with a tough childhood, but I did. My parents had very strong Scorpio and Taurus influences... I made no sense to them and vice versa. The Taurus person thought I was too sensitive and the Scorpio thought I was heartless, accusing me of being a sociopath in occasion. Both expected me to take on extreme amounts of responsibility And neither were very found of aimless chatter. Perhaps it takes until age 30 to outgrow childhood influences that attempt to shape your personality.
Well, try it. Post your chart again using sidereal.
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Unread 08-31-2015, 06:37 AM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Originally Posted by Mggirl View Post
I have never in my life identified with being a Gemini and I am wondering what in my chart sort of overthrew the characeteristics of my sun. I know that it is common under times of stress to identify more with your moon sign, which I do as a Capricorn moon. But even when I am not under stress I probably act more like a Capricorn or a Scorpio than anything else. I agree with everything else in my chart, libra rising, Taurus Mars, cancer Venus and Mercury. Rather than being friendly, talkative, outgoing, energetic or mischievous I am shy, brooding, low energy, and extremely practicle. even when I meet others with those more stereotypical Gemini traits, I don't get along with them... They annoy me. How did I turn out so anti Gemini? Any insights as to what has made me a very serious, hardworking, pessimistic introvert would be appreciated.
Well, your sun sign isn't necessarily your main personality. It's mostly popular because it's the easiest astrological placement to figure out. You only have to know the day of your birth to get your sun sign, but you have to know the exact time to get everything else. It certainly isn't because the sun is more important.

The first thing to note is that you have Libra rising. This is your basic personality, and how other people would see you. Another note would be that you have Capricorn moon, which governs your emotional, unconscious self. Some say the moon sign is more important for women, while the sun is more important for men. I'm not sure on that, though, it seems to vary based on the individual which sign is most important.

Also, note that your Gemini Sun is in the 8th house. The 8th house really isn't a very open or Extroverted house... it tends towards the hidden or occult. Your Gemini sun is also partly expressed through Mercury in Cancer, which would tend to have a more sensitive and brooding style of expression.
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Unread 08-31-2015, 07:28 AM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

it's possible that your asce an asce ruler are stronger than your sun
also pay attention to which decanate is your sun's sign in
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Unread 09-11-2015, 09:11 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

I think the dominant element of your chart tends to be a big factor overall. Your Sun might be in an air sign, and your Ascendant might be too, but overall, your planets are mostly in water or earth signs, which suggests that you have a much more quieter personality than the typical Gemini. There doesn't seem to be any fire.
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Unread 09-11-2015, 09:47 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Originally Posted by Mggirl View Post
I have never in my life identified with being a Gemini and I am wondering what in my chart sort of overthrew the characeteristics of my sun. I know that it is common under times of stress to identify more with your moon sign, which I do as a Capricorn moon. But even when I am not under stress I probably act more like a Capricorn or a Scorpio than anything else. I agree with everything else in my chart, libra rising, Taurus Mars, cancer Venus and Mercury. Rather than being friendly, talkative, outgoing, energetic or mischievous I am shy, brooding, low energy, and extremely practicle. even when I meet others with those more stereotypical Gemini traits, I don't get along with them... They annoy me. How did I turn out so anti Gemini? Any insights as to what has made me a very serious, hardworking, pessimistic introvert would be appreciated.
That's because you might actually be a Sun sign Taurus with a Virgo rising, and your moon probably still in Capricorn or very close to it, making you extremely earthy because your 3 most important signs are actually Earth and not air. Look into your sidereal chart.
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Unread 09-12-2015, 04:33 AM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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That's because you might actually be a Sun sign Taurus with a Virgo rising, and your moon probably still in Capricorn or very close to it, making you extremely earthy because your 3 most important signs are actually Earth and not air. Look into your sidereal chart.
Sidereal charts work if you're using a sidereal astrology system, such as Vedic or Chinese. But if you're doing that, you would need to be using the entire system, which is different from Western astrology.

In Western astrology, the signs are not the same thing as the constellations they're named after. Almost, but not quite. A few millennia ago, when the signs were named, the sun was actually in the constellation Taurus from late April to late May, in Gemini from late May to late June, etc.

Then, thanks to the wobble in earth's rotation, the backdrop of constellations moved, from our perspective, and the sun doesn't necessarily appear against the constellation Gemini anymore when we say it's in Gemini, etc. But it is still in Gemini, because the name Gemini in Western astrology doesn't mean the constellation. It means the 30 degree section of sky that the ancient astronomers called Gemini. The name of that section of sky doesn't change no matter which constellation we see in it.

So by Western astrology, your sun is definitely in Gemini. Vedic astrology might place it in Taurus, because Vedic astrology goes by where the constellations actually are. If you want to do a Vedic birth chart, too, and get it read on the Vedic board, it might be an interesting compare and contrast. But one system doesn't cancel out the other.
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Unread 09-12-2015, 08:39 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

Mggirl, I think your chart, and this thread you’ve started, is a great example of how insufficient astrology becomes when we focus so prominently on the Sun. of course, the sun does have to be a central component in any reading of a chart. But you’re really illustrating nicely how incomplete a picture we present of ourselves when we say “I’m a Gemini” or “I’m a Capricorn,” etc., based on where our sun is placed.

You’ve already spurred a lot of great thoughts on this post, but looking at your chart I have some I’d like to share as well.

First, I want to second almost everybody here and say that your chart – heaviest in water and earth energy – just doesn’t scream “Gemini” when looked at as a whole. The idea that you’re personality would be primarily Geminian because you have a Gemini Sun actually isn’t suggested by this chart. BUT, at the same time, I wouldn’t swing the pendulum the other way and play down too much that you are, in fact, a Gemini Sun. That doesn’t disappear. In amidst all your watery energy, you have Libra Rising and a Gemini Sun. I’d still expect you to be intelligent, to process things at the level of the intellect, to be humanitarian by disposition, to be interested in your fellow human beings, to be relationship oriented (not necessarily love match relationship, though I would suspect that’s very important for you – but also friends and acquaintances). A common Geminian trait, I think, is interest in language itself, and when you say you are very attuned to accents and voices, that basic attunment strikes me as very Geminian.
From this chart I'd also expect you to be concerned, consciously or otherwise, with balancing dualities. You might notice that the symbols for air signs all represent duality in the form of two parallel lines.The Libra ascendant flips a natural chart 180 degrees, so that signs are located on the house cusps naturally opposite to them. Libra ascendant, it seems to be, tends itself to a live spent reconciling (or trying to reconcile) polarities. It also lends itself to thinking/working through the Me/You or Self/Other relationship.

On those lines, I think you still want to approach your Sun as a Gemini Sun even though it is in the 8th house. Not to quibble with Osamenor’s excellent and helpful posts, but I want to disagree just slightly with the way s/he worded one point – though in the end I’m sure we actually agree on it. I wouldn’t say you’re Sun takes on a blending of the signs of Gemini and Scorpio, 50/50. I’d say your Sun has the quality of Gemini but is particularly focused on, or expresses itself around, Scorpio-like things. It tends towards Scorpio-like things, but still does so like a Gemini.
And of course Scorpio – and the 8th house – are really complicated, and there’s far too many things that might be entailed in having an 8th house Sun to post here. But just as one example, I suspect that most 8th house sun folks are born psychologists. They tend to see into the depths of people’s psyches and motivations. And do it whether people want them to or not. Whether people even realize it or not. Whether the 8th house person wants to or not! It’s their basic inclination. With a Gemini Sun, I suspect you do that sort of thing, and do it in a Gemini way. If a Cancer 8th house Sun might really feel into the soul of another, feel into the deep needs and security concerns of another in a very prelingual, emotionally resonant kind of way, I would expect a Gemini Sun to pierce into and understand the psyches of others through lingual communication (i.e., a discussion) and to process it via higher thought. You being a good listener, and seemingly congenitally prone to it, sounds like a part of that, to my mind. But how else would a Gemini Sun approach its 8th house tendency to always be doing a kind of depth psychology? I’d expect Gemini to want to document the ideas, share them in some way, and still be kind of “academic” about it, as opposed to, say, Neptunian about it. I would guess this is where your interest in astrology is represented, in that astrology tries to document and understand the invisible forces of the universe in a rational, conscious, even mathematical system, as opposed to, say, the eternal murkiness of dream symbology. I’d expect you to be a natural born psychologist of some sort, and I suspect that when you’re being a good listener it’s more than just passively hearing other people’s stories. I suspect – whether you’ve tried to own it or not – you are also seeing into how their psyche works, understanding their strengths and problems, and probably (Gemini) good at summing what their issues in a quick, pithy headline or phrase. Depth psychology of the 8th house variety, but Mercurial in quality.

(Here's one a quick metaphor. Imagine you have twelve psychologists in a room, each representative of a sign from the zodiac. They all work in psychology. An 8th house preoccupation. But they all have different demeanors, personalities and ways of going about the job. Maybe one drives with the client right to the heart of the problem, in a jarring way. Best way to take a band-aid off is just rip it. Maybe that's Aries in the 8th house. Freud had an 8th house Taurus Sun. He was very patient, sat long hours with his clients, and the physicality of his approach is clear: human psychology for him is ultimately brain biology, and often driven by pleasures (or pains) of the flesh. Same preoccupation with 8th house things. Different possible approaches.)

EDIT: Freud's MOON was in the 8th, not his Sun. I was wrong on that!

But then, Osamenor reminds us that your Mercury is in Cancer, so actually we have to say “Yes, you might approach you’re tendency to be a psychologist with the people around you in an intellectual way, but in your case the quality of your intellect really is profoundly emotion-oriented.” I bet you’re very good at discovering, as you listen to people, what they need in life to feel rooted and safe. Perhaps as a Gemini Sun in the 8th house, part of your role in life is to report back to them what you discover about them. So often it’s the case that when we talk to other people, it’s not until the other person tells our story back to us that we see the logic in it, our problem becomes clear and we know what our own story means to us. perhaps part of your role in life is to be the person that retells a person’s story back to them,. Sop they can finally “hear” what their own story is really about???

That your Mercury is also in the 9th house, opposed to the 3rd house which we’d naturally associate with Gemini and Mercury, could be a whole other thread. But just to begin to think about it: it will have to do with what I wrote earlier about being a Libra ascendant. About reconciling polarities in life.

I have two more thoughts: 1) on the lack of fire in this chart and; 2) on your North Node in Scorpio (conjunct Pluto!). But this post is already super long so I’ll post those separately…

Last edited by Birch Dragon; 10-08-2015 at 07:21 PM.
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Unread 09-12-2015, 09:25 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

And at the risk of flooding this thread with more than anybody wants to read...

Mggirl, in your original post you described yourself this way:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mggirl View Post
Rather than being friendly, talkative, outgoing, energetic or mischievous I am shy, brooding, low energy, and extremely practicle... How did I turn out so anti Gemini? Any insights as to what has made me a very serious, hardworking, pessimistic introvert would be appreciated.
Continuing from my last long post, I have two more thoughts I’d like to share that might speak to this self-description.

First, I’m sure you’ve already noticed there are no planets in your chart in fire signs. That doesn’t mean you are entirely devoid of fire energy. The four energies are meant to represent qualities that all of us have to some degree. But, the idea goes, without a planet in a fire sign that kind of energy won’t be prominent in your personality. Fire, of course, of the four energies, is the one we associate with drive, inspiration, enthusiasm, optimism, what we might call “spirit,” a certain kind of passion. I’d expect a person without fire planets to be low energy for sure, and perhaps shy and either primarily emotional and/or practical as well. With Aries on your Descendent, I’d even say that in this life where you experience that kind of energy it will less likely come from inside yourself and more as an infusion from somebody else. You might consciously or unconsciously seek partners in life (lovers and close friends) who tend to inject this kind of energy into you, or at least into your life in some way. Aries in particular, as cardinal fire, I think of the raw drive to exist. A picture that always comes to mind for me when thinking about Aries is the brave little flower pushing itself, against all odds, through the pavement. The baby snake fighting to break its eggshell. The painful push of a new mother pushing her baby out of her uterus and into the world. That kind of thrust to be alive is the raw seed of Aries, as I see it, and not only is your planetary configuration just low on that kind of energy but your Libra Ascendant (and therefore Aries descendant) suggests your look for it, subconsciously or otherwise, in other people more than yourself.

Second, I have to admit that the Moon’s Nodes play a central role in how I look at astrology charts, and I realize that’s not the case for everyone. I accept that the Moon’s Nodes are likely complicated and mysterious enough that we don’t entirely understand them (though personally I’d say that about everything in astrology), but I also accept the commonly held idea that the South Node represents something we can think of as what we already know well, karmically speaking (what we’ve already well explored in past lives, if you believe in them) or at least an energy we start with an abundance of, or resonate easily with. And so the North Node represents something less familiar, even difficult for us, but something we should be aiming at. The Nodes are for me a sort of compass arrow that point at something that tells us a lot about our “Purpose” and what we’re doing on earth. So, of course, does the Midheaven. So does the Sun. So does the whole chart. But I just find the nodes to be important in that.

I’m tempted to ramble on about the fact that your North Node is in Scorpio in the 2nd house, which puts your South node in Taurus, 8th house. But because I’ve already written too much I’ll try to be quick. Though I would suggest you pursue these positions in your chart if you haven’t already and decide for yourself whether or not they are as helpful in understanding the trajectory of your life as mine have been for me.

So even though you are a Libra Ascendant and Gemini Sun, the Nodes suggest you are very comfortable with Taurus energy but want to move towards something more Scorpionic in life. What does that mean? Well, I tend to find Taurus energy is really great at finding a place in the world and sitting in it, steadily building a life around itself, usually with well-earned material goods, watching the world revolve around it and finding genuine peace in that. Again, I could see this fitting with your self-description as shy, low energy, introverted and practical.
But the nodes suggest, if you accept my heavy emphasis on them, that karmically speaking one of the key points or even missions of your life is to dig more into the darker aspects of human existence. To see hidden truths, and where power and even violence are at work beneath the more high-minded rationales and happy veils we try to hide it with. Not necessarily to become dark yourself – though I’m sure this has something to do with how you see yourself as “pessimistic.” Perhaps ultimately the point is to heal it. Scorpio in its higher expression is about transforming the pains and poisons of the world. But the Scorpionic person is drawn to the poison, even if it is to suck it out. And your NN suggests that’s something you’re looking to learn.
BUT, because of that Libra Ascendant again, you have this tricky situation where your NN is in the opposite house. If Scorpio is associated with the 8th and Taurus with the 2nd, you have Scorpio NN in 8th. I’ve read this called a “switcheroo,” and I have found it to be very complicated. I have it myself (different signs and houses, but I have this switcheroo thing going on) and I still find myself struggling with it. In a sense what I think you have to do is really study not just Scorpio and/or Taurus but the Scorpio/Taurus axis. Study them as polarities. Because when the nodes are in this switcheroo placement, you’re “mission” involved balancing the basic messages of this whole axis. For example, in your case, perhaps it’s something like seeing the darkness in yourself (Scorpio, 2nd house) in order to understand the darkness in others, but also, probably, visa versa. (!!!)
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Re: I don't act like my sun

Birch Dragon, I see you mentioned my name, and I'd love to respond, but I can't fully respond to your posts because I can't read much of them. I'm completely and totally unable to read electronic text if it's in a block any longer than 5 or 6 lines. You've broken up your paragraphs, but not quite enough. Most of your paragraphs are so long that I can't read them. If you could please put a line's space every 4 or 5 sentences, your posts would be accessible to all.
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Re: I don't act like my sun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birch Dragon View Post
On those lines, I think you still want to approach your Sun as a Gemini Sun even though it is in the 8th house. Not to quibble with Osamenor’s excellent and helpful posts, but I want to disagree just slightly with the way s/he worded one point – though in the end I’m sure we actually agree on it. I wouldn’t say you’re Sun takes on a blending of the signs of Gemini and Scorpio, 50/50. I’d say your Sun has the quality of Gemini but is particularly focused on, or expresses itself around, Scorpio-like things. It tends towards Scorpio-like things, but still does so like a Gemini.
I agree with you, Birch Dragon. I don't really agree with modern astrology's way of conflating houses with their rulers, though there are obviously similarities. The houses, in my view, are more like the areas of life where our planets express themselves.

Like, I have a 5th house Sun but I don't consider myself to be "half-Leo", though I may be "Leo-like" in the sense that I am dramatic and expressive. Still, an 8th house or a 12th house Gemini will probably be more quiet, introverted and watery than, like, a 5th house or 3rd house Gemini would be, and it makes sense why the OP would identify with Scorpio-traits.

Gemini and Scorpio are very different signs, almost completely opposite in personality, but the one thing that ties them together is their curiosity (also, their mischievousness, but OP says she's not mischievous). One possible interpretation of this, is that her Gemini curiosity and love of learning might best be expressed around themes of sex/intimacy, psychology or the occult (I've read somewhere that Uranus rules astrology but I honestly feel like it's more of a Plutonian subject).
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Unread 09-13-2015, 10:42 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

Quote:
Originally Posted by craft94 View Post

I agree with you, Birch Dragon. I don't really agree with modern astrology's way of conflating houses with their rulers, though there are obviously similarities.
The houses, in my view, are more like the areas of life where our planets express themselves.

Like, I have a 5th house Sun but I don't consider myself to be "half-Leo", though I may be "Leo-like" in the sense that I am dramatic and expressive.
Still, an 8th house or a 12th house Gemini will probably be more quiet, introverted and watery than, like, a 5th house or 3rd house Gemini would be, and it makes sense why the OP would identify with Scorpio-traits.
Exactly
and so

Regarding understanding your natal Sun

if you keep in mind that:

A PLANET acts.

A HOUSE shows the area of life in which the planet acts

as well as
how strongly the planet can act.




and


A SIGN shows the quality of the planet's expression.

then
if you start working from that idea
you can build on it


i.e.
- which planet
where is it
how comfortable is it in that sign
what does it rule in the chart?

An understanding of planetary dignity and debility
is useful for assessing how comfortable a particular planet is when in a particular sign

HOW TO READ DIGNITIES WITH TABLE http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig2.html



__________________
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Unread 09-14-2015, 06:14 AM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Sidereal charts work if you're using a sidereal astrology system, such as Vedic or Chinese. But if you're doing that, you would need to be using the entire system, which is different from Western astrology.

In Western astrology, the signs are not the same thing as the constellations they're named after. Almost, but not quite. A few millennia ago, when the signs were named, the sun was actually in the constellation Taurus from late April to late May, in Gemini from late May to late June, etc.

Then, thanks to the wobble in earth's rotation, the backdrop of constellations moved, from our perspective, and the sun doesn't necessarily appear against the constellation Gemini anymore when we say it's in Gemini, etc. But it is still in Gemini, because the name Gemini in Western astrology doesn't mean the constellation. It means the 30 degree section of sky that the ancient astronomers called Gemini. The name of that section of sky doesn't change no matter which constellation we see in it.

So by Western astrology, your sun is definitely in Gemini. Vedic astrology might place it in Taurus, because Vedic astrology goes by where the constellations actually are. If you want to do a Vedic birth chart, too, and get it read on the Vedic board, it might be an interesting compare and contrast. But one system doesn't cancel out the other.
I don't quite follow that logic.
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Unread 09-14-2015, 07:34 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
I don't quite follow that logic.
What part of that logic don't you follow?

Western astrology is not a sidereal system. The sidereal astrology systems that exist--for instance, Vedic--are so different from Western astrology that using a sidereal chart and interpreting it according to the rules of Western astrology is like trying to construct sentences in English using a foreign language's grammatical rules.

You appeals this? Has sense in Spanish.

Or we German grammar could use. We odd sentences would get.

Just as grammatical rules work in the language they were designed for but sound strange in a different language, sidereal charts work when they're interpreted and used within a sidereal system. Tacking a sidereal chart onto Western astrology takes it out of context, and it no longer fits.

Have you ever noticed that the only people in this forum who make Western sidereal charts are fairly new amateurs? The professional and semi-pro astrologers on here never do that. There's good reason why they don't: they know the rules of Western astrology, and one of the most basic ones is that signs and constellations are not the same thing. Meanwhile, the Vedic astrologers use sidereal charts, but that's because their system is designed for that, and the charts are very different from Western ones.

Last edited by Osamenor; 09-14-2015 at 07:53 PM.
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Unread 09-14-2015, 07:55 PM
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Re: I don't act like my sun

Vedic/jyotish/sidereal does not go by where the constellations are. That's a common misconception in the west. In those systems, signs are still 30 degrees. The difference is that they use different sidereal vernal points, or ayanamsas. Lahiri is one of the most common ones, but most of them are pretty close together. Usually a sidereal chart will put your planets about 23 degrees earlier, there's a little variation between ayanamsas, but the signs are still 30 degrees each.

There are western siderealists, as well as the followers of Cyril Fagan, though the latter capitalise Siderealist.

It's a workable system if that's what you want to use.
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