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  #26  
Unread 09-07-2015, 03:04 PM
muchacho muchacho is offline
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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To be honest, and I'm not trying to attack you here, but to be honest, I feel like Osamenor is actually listening to what I'm saying and you're not. I specifically said that platonic relationships were important to me and I think Osamenor was responding to that. Also, most of what you said is very un-me, though I can't really fault you for that:

1. I am not a very "practical" person. In fact, I am too idealistic... but "cynical" at the same time, I guess. I have high expectations but am well aware that reality won't be able to match up. If I was a practical person, I'd probably be in a committed relationship by now...with someone whose rich and does everything for me. But no, I'm much more concerned with how a person makes me feel and around most people, especially those that are attracted to me, I feel nothing (well, maybe disgust, depending on who they are). Overall, I'm a much more emotional person than I am "practical"... though I don't want to be deluding myself either. Honestly, I try to be practical more so than I actually am.

2. I never really thought of myself as a particular touchy person but I guess I am, that is, if I'm in an intimate relationship with someone. I mean, I do think I would feel insulted if I had a partner who refused to touch me, but I get very annoyed when strangers or people I don't know too well hug me. It's very fake, and feels like an invasion of personal space.

Also, I disagree with your views on Venus but I think that goes without saying. I see 'sensuality' or outer beauty as the more Taurean face of the planet, and relationships, or inner beauty as the more Libran side. Relationships =/= sexuality, you're right about that, but placed in the 'sexual' sign of Scorpio, the planet would be expressing itself in a 'sexual' way, which I'm pretty sure is what Osamenor was referring to.
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Yes, I know about the 5th house. I wouldn't say these topics 'excite' me necessarily because I'm not a very excitable person, but self-expression and creativity are important parts of my life.
Thanks for your detailed feedback. I appreciate it. I'm not trying to convince you of something that you are not. I think the main difference is that I focus mostly on the Moon, because that's what's relevant when you are already in a relationship and you seem more concerned with Venus. So we are talking a little past each other. Energetically speaking, Osamenor has a Venus position that is basically identical with yours, so you'd better listen to her and not to me regarding Venus.

But there are some things you've just said that are not really adding up given the chart you've posted. Would you mind posting your chart again using sidereal?

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  #27  
Unread 09-07-2015, 03:55 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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Thanks for your detailed feedback. I appreciate it. I'm not trying to convince you of something that you are not. I think the main difference is that I focus mostly on the Moon, because that's what's relevant when you are already in a relationship and you seem more concerned with Venus. So we are talking a little past each other. Energetically speaking, Osamenor has a Venus position that is basically identical with yours, so you'd better listen to her and not to me regarding Venus.
You're welcome. To be fair, I've never really identified too strongly with my moon sign. It's energies are definitely there and I'm not denying that - there's no way I'm secretly a Gemini moon or anything like that - but a lot of people identify more with their moon than their sun sign, even. I feel like other people, not so much everyday people but family members and close friends see the Taurus more than I do. I think this is because it's in the 12th house, and therefore 'hidden' from me.

Again, I do disagree with you about Venus. Venus, to me, is more of the archetypal 'relationship planet' than the moon is. I see Venus as more of your approach towards relationships (for instance, generally I find that a person with Venus in Gemini will have a more casual approach to relationships than a person with Venus in Scorpio would, regardless of sun or moon sign) but your moon is always going to be important, as it signifies your most basic needs, so you're right. Really, when it comes down to it, every aspect of your chart is going to show up in relationships, but they differ in importance.

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But there are some things you've just said that are not really adding up given the chart you've posted. Would you mind posting your chart again using sidereal?
What isn't adding up? I think maybe my chart would make more sense if you thought more about the bigger picture than the individual planets. Like, I'm a Libra Sun, Taurus Moon, Gemini Rising but altogether, I'm actually a water dominant (at least according to my Walter Pullen chart delineation on astrodienst) which means I'm primary motivated by emotions, rather than say, my rational intellect or material desires. If that's not it, and you were thinking about the chart as a whole, well, there is a lot more to what makes a person than their astrology chart... for instance, cultural background, genetics, life experiences.

As for the whole touching thing, if that's what you're referring to, ironically, I think it's mostly my moon sign that makes me that way. The mixture of both the sign and the house.

Last edited by craft94; 09-07-2015 at 04:04 PM.
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  #28  
Unread 09-07-2015, 04:08 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

Also, for sidereal, do you want me to use Fagan/Bradley geocentric sidereal or heliocentric? I'm guessing geocentric but I just want to make sure. These are the two options they give on astrodienst.
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  #29  
Unread 09-07-2015, 04:33 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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You're welcome. To be fair, I've never really identified too strongly with my moon sign. It's energies are definitely there and I'm not denying that - there's no way I'm secretly a Gemini moon or anything like that - but a lot of people identify more with their moon than their sun sign, even. I feel like other people, not so much everyday people but family members and close friends see the Taurus more than I do. I think this is because it's in the 12th house, and therefore 'hidden' from me.

Again, I do disagree with you about Venus. I see Venus as more of the 'relationship planet', as in your approach to romantic relationships... people with Venus in Gemini will usually be more casual for instance regardless of Sun or Moon sign, but your moon is always going to be important, as it signifies your basic needs. Really, when it comes down to it, every aspect of your chart is going to show up in relationships, but they differ in importance.

What isn't adding up? I think maybe my chart would make more sense if you thought more about the bigger picture than the individual planets. Like, I'm a Libra Sun, Taurus Moon, Gemini Rising but altogether, I'm actually a water dominant (at least according to my Walter Pullen chart delineation on astrodienst) which means I'm primary motivated by emotions, rather than say, my rational intellect or material desires. If that's not it, and you were thinking about the chart as a whole, well, there is a lot more to what makes a person than their astrology chart... for instance, cultural background, genetics, life experiences.

As for the whole touching thing, if that's what you're referring to, ironically, I think it's mostly my moon sign that makes me that way.
Okay, it seems you are not hearing me either. Maybe we just have to agree to disagree about the importance of certain planets. And I do look at the chart as a whole, always. That's why I found this focus on Venus retrograde so odd. But never mind.

What's not adding up is what you've said about being not practical. With Venus in 6th and Moon in 12th in Taurus and also your 4th House in Virgo one would expect that you'd want to be of service to those you hold dear, even to the degree of sacrifice. But you've just said the opposite. That's why I was asking. Switching to sidereal wouldn't change your Sun sign and ASC, btw. It would, however, change your Moon sign and Venus sign.

And I fully agree with your point that astrology is just one among many other factors. Also, age may play a role as well. After the age of 30 people usually start feeling like their chart indicates.

So, let's just leave it there. Please ignore my input if it doesn't really resonate.
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  #30  
Unread 09-07-2015, 04:34 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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Also, for sidereal, do you want me to use Fagan/Bradley geocentric sidereal or heliocentric? I'm guessing geocentric but I just want to make sure. These are the two options they give on astrodienst.
Geocentric and Lahiri or Krishnamurti, if possible. If they only have Fagan, that's fine too.
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  #31  
Unread 09-07-2015, 10:39 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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What's not adding up is what you've said about being not practical. With Venus in 6th and Moon in 12th in Taurus and also your 4th House in Virgo one would expect that you'd want to be of service to those you hold dear, even to the degree of sacrifice. But you've just said the opposite. That's why I was asking. Switching to sidereal wouldn't change your Sun sign and ASC, btw. It would, however, change your Moon sign and Venus sign.

But I'm a Libra, pretty much the sign of idealism! And not only that but my Sun is square both Uranus and Neptune! My ideas tend to be considered "out there". My moon is in the 12th house, which makes me very spacey and daydream-y, unfortunately. Plus, I'm a water dominant! Hmm... I think we're just focusing on different parts of the chart. I can be very practical in some ways...money, for instance, but definitely not when it comes to love. Then again, is love really a practical thing? I tend to be more practical when solving other people's emotional problems than my own...then again, I'm practical enough to know when I'm being impractical... I guess that's a form of practicality in itself.

I do feel like my chart is accurate - otherwise, would I be into astrology at all? - but in different ways. Like, with my Taurus moon, it's fixed, stubborn as a bull qualities are stronger than it's earthy, materialistic qualities, if that makes any sense...as if you couldn't tell I was stubborn from this conversation

Also, my IC is actually Leo (third decan) and the only "planet" I have in Virgo is Chiron, "the wounded healer". I interpret that 4th house Virgo placement a lot differently from a more subjective, personal perspective (and I know other people would interpret it the same way I do) but I don't really want to get into it right now, and I figure you don't really want me to either. This forum has gotten waaaaaaay off topic, and it's my own fault. I'm sorry if I've over-stepped any boundaries. I just feel a constant need to re-explain and clarify myself for whatever reason... must be something in my chart.

Okay, I'm done. You really don't have to read this.

As for my sidereal chart, I did use the Hindu/Lahiri method, which I think is more along the lines of what you wanted me to use. I don't have the time to screenshot it right now, but yes, my Sun is still in Libra, my Venus has moved to Libra, my Moon has moved to Aries, my Mars has moved to Cancer, and my Ascendant has moved to Taurus. I'm also an air dominant, according to this (Jupiter and Saturn have also moved to air signs) but the houses and aspects have stayed exactly the same. I feel like the natal chart I'm used to is a lot more accurate but I'm open to hearing your interpretation of this one if you want to give it (doesn't necessarily mean I'll agree, just to clarify but I'll try not to be long-winded and unintentionally argumentative about it).

Last edited by craft94; 09-07-2015 at 10:43 PM.
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  #32  
Unread 09-07-2015, 10:41 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

Actually...
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  #33  
Unread 09-08-2015, 05:35 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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Actually...
Thanks for posting the chart. I've already looked at it but I thought I'd also take a look into your post archive first to get a better idea of your personality and general vibe. And at the moment, I'm pretty certain that the sidereal chart is a better match. I don't have the time to go into details now but so much of what you've told us about yourself is so typical Virgo/6th House behavior. And I also think you are a rather impatient and combative fellow at times. I'll explain in detail when I have the time. It's probably going to be a longer post.
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  #34  
Unread 09-14-2015, 07:44 AM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

Hi Craft,

sorry for my late reply, but I thought I should give it a little more consideration. As I've already said, you've told us some things about yourself that are not adding up. You've said that...

- you have a lot of Aries friends and you like their bluntness and straightforwardness (sounds more like Moon in Aries than in Taurus)

- you have an unhealthy addiction to spicy food and fear ending up with a stomach ulcer (sounds more like Moon in Aries than in Taurus)

- you act very impulsive in regards to your emotions (sounds more like Moon in Aries than in Taurus)

- you generally feel most comfortable around fire signs (sounds more like Moon in Aries than in Taurus)

- the rational side of your brain and the emotional side of your brain are often at war with one another, especially in the context of relationships (sounds more like a Moon 12th House/Sun 6th House conflict than a Moon 12th House/Sun 5th House conflict)

- sometimes you wished you were an Aries, Leo or Sagittarius because they are confident and don't care what other people think (sounds more like Moon in Aries in 12th than Moon in Taurus in 12th)

- you've never really identified too strongly with your Moon sign

- you don't consider yourself to be a very practical person, but rather too idealistic and cynical at the same time (sounds more like a Moon 12th House/Sun 6th House conflict than a Moon 12th House/Sun 5th House conflict)

- you are lazy and can't really be bothered with something so trivial as putting effort into your appearance (sounds more like Sun in 6th than Sun in 5th)

- you think the idea of soul mates is nice but unrealistic, life isn't a romance novel (sounds more like 5th in Virgo or Sun in 6th than 5th in Libra or Sun in 5th)

- you are up and down between extremes (sounds more like a Moon 12th House/Sun 6th House conflict than a Moon 12th House/Sun 5th House conflict)

- you tend to overthink what you are doing which prevents you from getting things done (sounds more like Sun in 6th than Sun in 5th)


There's more. But I think that's already enough. I think what's creating those problems for you is this Sun-Moon opposition and your 5th House in Virgo and 7th in Scorpio. On the one hand hand you are a dreamer (Moon 12th) and rather impulsive (Moon in Aries) but on the other hand you are rather cool (Sun in Libra) and also very analytical, systematic and practically oriented (Sun in 6th). In terms of love relationships (5th), I'd say you show typical Virgo traits, high standards, picky, realistic, understantement, focus on essentials. When it comes to relationships in general (7th), you also show typical Scorpio traits, you long for a deep connection, you are afraid of letting your guard down and losing your emotional security.

I think you are more practical than you dare to admit. You've said that you use astrology to get over your negative traits. That's a very pragmatic approach. You are also great at analyzing yourself and other people and basically you already know what you have to do. Your only problem seems to be that you can't get started. And that's not an issue of astrology, IMO.
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  #35  
Unread 09-14-2015, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by muchacho View Post
Hi Craft,

sorry for my late reply, but I thought I should give it a little more consideration. As I've already said, you've told us some things about yourself that are not adding up. You've said that...

- you have a lot of Aries friends and you like their bluntness and straightforwardness (sounds more like Moon in Aries than in Taurus)

- you have an unhealthy addiction to spicy food and fear ending up with a stomach ulcer (sounds more like Moon in Aries than in Taurus)

- you act very impulsive in regards to your emotions (sounds more like Moon in Aries than in Taurus)

- you generally feel most comfortable around fire signs (sounds more like Moon in Aries than in Taurus)

- the rational side of your brain and the emotional side of your brain are often at war with one another, especially in the context of relationships (sounds more like a Moon 12th House/Sun 6th House conflict than a Moon 12th House/Sun 5th House conflict)

- sometimes you wished you were an Aries, Leo or Sagittarius because they are confident and don't care what other people think (sounds more like Moon in Aries in 12th than Moon in Taurus in 12th)

- you've never really identified too strongly with your Moon sign

- you don't consider yourself to be a very practical person, but rather too idealistic and cynical at the same time (sounds more like a Moon 12th House/Sun 6th House conflict than a Moon 12th House/Sun 5th House conflict)

- you are lazy and can't really be bothered with something so trivial as putting effort into your appearance (sounds more like Sun in 6th than Sun in 5th)

- you think the idea of soul mates is nice but unrealistic, life isn't a romance novel (sounds more like 5th in Virgo or Sun in 6th than 5th in Libra or Sun in 5th)

- you are up and down between extremes (sounds more like a Moon 12th House/Sun 6th House conflict than a Moon 12th House/Sun 5th House conflict)

- you tend to overthink what you are doing which prevents you from getting things done (sounds more like Sun in 6th than Sun in 5th)


There's more. But I think that's already enough. I think what's creating those problems for you is this Sun-Moon opposition and your 5th House in Virgo and 7th in Scorpio. On the one hand hand you are a dreamer (Moon 12th) and rather impulsive (Moon in Aries) but on the other hand you are rather cool (Sun in Libra) and also very analytical, systematic and practically oriented (Sun in 6th). In terms of love relationships (5th), I'd say you show typical Virgo traits, high standards, picky, realistic, understantement, focus on essentials. When it comes to relationships in general (7th), you also show typical Scorpio traits, you long for a deep connection, you are afraid of letting your guard down and losing your emotional security.

I think you are more practical than you dare to admit. You've said that you use astrology to get over your negative traits. That's a very pragmatic approach. You are also great at analyzing yourself and other people and basically you already know what you have to do. Your only problem seems to be that you can't get started. And that's not an issue of astrology, IMO.
I still think my Western chart is more accurate, lol. It's ok; we can agree to disagree. I'm not going to go into the reasons why...unless you want me to...because this thread is way way way off topic at this point. I think our opinions differ mainly because your approach to astrology is more moon sign-CENTERED than mine is. Thank you for taking the time to analyze my chart though

As for what you said about practicality, thank you. I take it as a compliment. But I'm honesty just not very practical when it comes to love which is what this discussion is about
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  #36  
Unread 09-15-2015, 05:15 AM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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I still think my Western chart is more accurate, lol. It's ok; we can agree to disagree. I'm not going to go into the reasons why...unless you want me to...because this thread is way way way off topic at this point. I think our opinions differ mainly because your approach to astrology is more moon sign-CENTERED than mine is. Thank you for taking the time to analyze my chart though

As for what you said about practicality, thank you. I take it as a compliment. But I'm honesty just not very practical when it comes to love which is what this discussion is about
My analysis is very basic, of course. But if you thoroughly analyze Sun, Moon and ASC, you've already covered about 2/3 of a chart. To analyze the other 1/3 takes more time, sometimes a lot of time, but no matter how those 1/3 may turn out, they are not important enough to change the general pattern of a chart, they can only modify it. Sometimes a chart doesn't show a clear pattern in the beginning. Then we have to look at some more factors, of course. In your case, the pattern is very clear right from the start. That's why I don't see the point in spending extra time on Venus and aspects. But it seems you've already made up your mind anyway.

I can tell you from experience, that analyzing your own chart can be very deceiving. I was using the wrong rising sign for quite some time. It somehow made sense, not fully though. Later I discovered that I didn't consider daylight saving time. When I recalculated the chart, I had a different rising sign, and I was skeptical at first, but after further analyzing it, I began to really like it. And now I find it awesome. And that's what's amiss here. You don't really like your chart. I say it's because it's not calculated correctly. It's not really your chart. That's why it doesn't resonate 100%. You say it's because it hasn't been analyzed thoroughly. Well, you've got a point there, too. But if you can't even really identify with something as basic and essential as your Moon sign, then that's reason for concern.
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  #37  
Unread 09-15-2015, 05:19 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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My analysis is very basic, of course. But if you thoroughly analyze Sun, Moon and ASC, you've already covered about 2/3 of a chart. To analyze the other 1/3 takes more time, sometimes a lot of time, but no matter how those 1/3 may turn out, they are not important enough to change the general pattern of a chart, they can only modify it. Sometimes a chart doesn't show a clear pattern in the beginning. Then we have to look at some more factors, of course. In your case, the pattern is very clear right from the start. That's why I don't see the point in spending extra time on Venus and aspects. But it seems you've already made up your mind anyway.

I can tell you from experience, that analyzing your own chart can be very deceiving. I was using the wrong rising sign for quite some time. It somehow made sense, not fully though. Later I discovered that I didn't consider daylight saving time. When I recalculated the chart, I had a different rising sign, and I was skeptical at first, but after further analyzing it, I began to really like it. And now I find it awesome. And that's what's amiss here. You don't really like your chart. I say it's because it's not calculated correctly. It's not really your chart. That's why it doesn't resonate 100%. You say it's because it hasn't been analyzed thoroughly. Well, you've got a point there, too. But if you can't even really identify with something as basic and essential as your Moon sign, then that's reason for concern.

I'm definitely a Gemini Ascendant, not a Taurus Ascendant... if you knew me in real life, you would be able to see that I've got "Gemini" written all over me and I already said that I identified with both my Venus in Scorpio and my Sun in the 5th house (self expression, creativity). I identify with my 6th house Venus as well, although I think our interpretations are a little bit different (my high standards aren't what I'd consider "practical" but besides that, I think we agree). I never said I didn't identify at all with my moon sign. I just don't consider it to be the #1 most important factor in my personality, which a lot of people do. I identify more with the fixed, stubborn, steady, strong-willed nature of Taurus more than I do it's earthiness and materialism, for better or for worse, and I think this is because 1. water house... I think this is the main reason 2. water dominant 3. air sun/ascendant/very airy personality 4. the aspects it makes.

That's the other thing about my sidereal chart that doesn't make sense... aside from my Ascendant in Taurus and my Descendant in Scorpio, there are no fixed signs and my understanding is that the Descendant is more about others than it is about you. Being both a fixed dominant and a water dominant makes sense to me.

I really don't want this conversation to drag on and and on and on and on though because as you can tell, I am stubborn and you seem stubborn too, which tends to make debates (whether we intended this to turn into a debate or not) like this one difficult. I just want to explain myselfff

Anyway, I did agree with what you said about my Taurus moon being passive. Something about waiting around for things rather than chasing after them. Whatever you said exactly, I don't remember but I remember it was very accurate. I also have a very strong sense of smell, which I've read was a Taurus thing, and I tend to be very sensitive to my surrounding environment. I don't consider this to be the defining part of who I am, more just something in the background, but it fits. Also, I looove food, which is also a Taurus thing, but again, if that was my defining personality trait, I'd be a very boring person. Who doesn't like food to some degree? The point is, if I'm really being brutally honest with myself, I can see that I am a slow and steady Taurus deep down, but if asked to describe what kind of person I am, "Taurus" isn't going to be the first thing to come to mind, nor will any traits associated with the sign. Personally, I think this is more due to the moon being in the 12th house rather than it being in a completely different sign. 12th house planets are often said to be hidden from us.


As for being attracted to fire signs, being attracted to something and actually being something are two different things. It's the lack of fire that draws me to fire. Plus, my Descendant is in the fiery sign of Sagittarius. I might act like a fire sign on paper (impatient, combative, etc.) but in person, I don't have that energy or that enthusiasm or that sense of self-confidence that seem to be apparent in fiery types. Yes, I do wish I had it but I don't, so naturally, I gravitate towards fiery types to balance myself out, especially being a Libra and all.

My supposed combativeness makes me think Mars in Leo (a fire sign) is a much better fit for me than Mars in the watery sign of Cancer. What gets me more angry than anything else? Being talked down to, or in this case, having someone act like they know me better than I know myself, or maybe from your point of view, being told that I'm wrong (I admit when I'm wrong when I'm wrong but I don't think I'm wrong about my chart), and these are very Leonine themes of pride and ego. Mars in the 3rd house makes sense too, since the 3rd house is communication and I seem to communicate in an aggressive Mars-like way, whether I intend to or not. The 3rd house being the ruled by my Ascendant also makes sense and my mars is square to my moon regardless of what sign it's in.

You say it's difficult for people to analyze their own birth charts, but what makes you think it's not difficult to have someone else's ideas about who you are stubbornly imposed on you? I'm sorry, it's nothing personal but I'm just really wary of anyone thinking that they know more about me than I do myself. I'm sure that's not your intent, but that's how it comes off, when I say something doesn't resonate and you keep repeating it anyway. I mean, you're right...no one can be 100% objective about themselves...but no one is a mind reader either. Other people might better able to describe how you act, and how you communicate, but you know more about how you think and how you feel. I think this is especially true in this case. You can't know someone well enough to tell them their chart is wrong when you've never even met them once. That's difficult because even if you have met me, I act differently around different people, so differently that one would be unable to imagine how different I could be in another setting, and it's not a choice. It just happens.

To be fair, it makes sense why you'd see me as an Aries moon. It's more the other parts that don't add up, especially if we're going to be using the sidereal as my one and only "real" chart. The Gemini Ascendant, for example, fits me like a glove...except for the fact that I'm reclusive and introverted, but all that can be determined by other factors in my Western chart, like the planets in 12th house/6th house, Taurus/Scorpio axis.

Last edited by craft94; 09-15-2015 at 05:21 PM.
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Unread 09-15-2015, 06:43 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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Originally Posted by craft94 View Post
The Gemini Ascendant, for example, fits me like a glove...except for the fact that I'm reclusive and introverted, but all that can be determined by other factors in my Western chart, like the planets in 12th house/6th house, Taurus/Scorpio axis.
And Gemini rising can be reclusive and introverted. Cookbook astrology describes the chatterbox Gemini, but cookbook astrology never gives the range of characteristics associated with a sign, and it tends to default to the characteristics that are most acceptable culturally. In our culture, that means skewing everything in favor of the outgoing and extroverted. Cookbook astrology won't describe any sign as reclusive and introverted unless it undeniably is. For signs that manifest just as easily either way, outgoing is given as normative.

What Gemini is, is a communicator. Communicators aren't just talkers, they're also listeners. If the rest of your chart runs in the reclusive and introverted direction and you have Gemini rising, you're probably going to be much more of a listening Gemini than a talking Gemini, figuratively and literally.

And, as you point out, Gemini rising gives you Sagittarius descending, which explains your attraction to fiery types. People you draw into your life tend to manifest characteristics associated with your descendant and seventh house placements--that's one of the givens of astrology.
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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And Gemini rising can be reclusive and introverted. Cookbook astrology describes the chatterbox Gemini, but cookbook astrology never gives the range of characteristics associated with a sign, and it tends to default to the characteristics that are most acceptable culturally. In our culture, that means skewing everything in favor of the outgoing and extroverted. Cookbook astrology won't describe any sign as reclusive and introverted unless it undeniably is. For signs that manifest just as easily either way, outgoing is given as normative.

What Gemini is, is a communicator. Communicators aren't just talkers, they're also listeners. If the rest of your chart runs in the reclusive and introverted direction and you have Gemini rising, you're probably going to be much more of a listening Gemini than a talking Gemini, figuratively and literally.

And, as you point out, Gemini rising gives you Sagittarius descending, which explains your attraction to fiery types. People you draw into your life tend to manifest characteristics associated with your descendant and seventh house placements--that's one of the givens of astrology.
Well, I, personally, am a chatterbox but an introverted chatterbox. I know it sounds like a contradiction but it really isn't. Like I'm not the type to be constantly going to parties or whatever. I don't "put myself out there". I don't even know how to "put myself out there." I'm much more solitary, and private, and need time to retreat into myself, not necessarily because I want to but because that's what comes naturally to me (this is reminding me of our conversation about nodes) but at the same time, I'm the most talkative person ever when I am with people.

This is what I mean...some people would describe me as a loud-mouthed, maybe even obnoxious or maybe funny, chatterbox and other people would describe me as shy, quiet, and nervous. It definitely changes, unconsciously, based on who I am with and whether I feel comfortable with them or not, what kinds of vibes they give off. It takes me a while to warm up to new people, usually. I either talk too much or not at all. (right now, I'm probably talking too much)

But I agree with everything you've said.

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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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Well, I, personally, am a chatterbox but an introverted chatterbox. I know it sounds like a contradiction but it really isn't. Like I'm not the type to be constantly going to parties or whatever. I don't "put myself out there". I don't even know how to "put myself out there." I'm much more solitary, and private, and need time to retreat into myself, not necessarily because I want to but because that's what comes naturally to me (this is reminding me of our conversation about nodes) but at the same time, I'm the most talkative person ever when I am with people.

This is what I mean...some people would describe me as a loud-mouthed, maybe even obnoxious or maybe funny, chatterbox and other people would describe me as shy, quiet, and nervous. It definitely changes, unconsciously, based on who I am with and whether I feel comfortable with them or not, what kinds of vibes they give off. It takes me a while to warm up to new people, usually. I either talk too much or not at all. (right now, I'm probably talking too much)

But I agree with everything you've said.
Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way before, but I think you're also describing my sister... and she, too, is a solar Libra with Gemini rising.

I'd always thought of her as the outgoing one in our family, and compared with the rest of us, she is... but we once had an astrology reading together, and the very first thing the astrologer told her, on looking at her chart was, "You're very introspective."

And now that I think about it, my sister is exactly like that: very talkative and social around people, usually, but certainly has some quiet ways, too.
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Unread 09-17-2015, 06:06 AM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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I'm definitely a Gemini Ascendant, not a Taurus Ascendant... if you knew me in real life, you would be able to see that I've got "Gemini" written all over me and I already said that I identified with both my Venus in Scorpio and my Sun in the 5th house (self expression, creativity). I identify with my 6th house Venus as well, although I think our interpretations are a little bit different (my high standards aren't what I'd consider "practical" but besides that, I think we agree). I never said I didn't identify at all with my moon sign. I just don't consider it to be the #1 most important factor in my personality, which a lot of people do. I identify more with the fixed, stubborn, steady, strong-willed nature of Taurus more than I do it's earthiness and materialism, for better or for worse, and I think this is because 1. water house... I think this is the main reason 2. water dominant 3. air sun/ascendant/very airy personality 4. the aspects it makes.

That's the other thing about my sidereal chart that doesn't make sense... aside from my Ascendant in Taurus and my Descendant in Scorpio, there are no fixed signs and my understanding is that the Descendant is more about others than it is about you. Being both a fixed dominant and a water dominant makes sense to me.

I really don't want this conversation to drag on and and on and on and on though because as you can tell, I am stubborn and you seem stubborn too, which tends to make debates (whether we intended this to turn into a debate or not) like this one difficult. I just want to explain myselfff

Anyway, I did agree with what you said about my Taurus moon being passive. Something about waiting around for things rather than chasing after them. Whatever you said exactly, I don't remember but I remember it was very accurate. I also have a very strong sense of smell, which I've read was a Taurus thing, and I tend to be very sensitive to my surrounding environment. I don't consider this to be the defining part of who I am, more just something in the background, but it fits. Also, I looove food, which is also a Taurus thing, but again, if that was my defining personality trait, I'd be a very boring person. Who doesn't like food to some degree? The point is, if I'm really being brutally honest with myself, I can see that I am a slow and steady Taurus deep down, but if asked to describe what kind of person I am, "Taurus" isn't going to be the first thing to come to mind, nor will any traits associated with the sign. Personally, I think this is more due to the moon being in the 12th house rather than it being in a completely different sign. 12th house planets are often said to be hidden from us.


As for being attracted to fire signs, being attracted to something and actually being something are two different things. It's the lack of fire that draws me to fire. Plus, my Descendant is in the fiery sign of Sagittarius. I might act like a fire sign on paper (impatient, combative, etc.) but in person, I don't have that energy or that enthusiasm or that sense of self-confidence that seem to be apparent in fiery types. Yes, I do wish I had it but I don't, so naturally, I gravitate towards fiery types to balance myself out, especially being a Libra and all.

My supposed combativeness makes me think Mars in Leo (a fire sign) is a much better fit for me than Mars in the watery sign of Cancer. What gets me more angry than anything else? Being talked down to, or in this case, having someone act like they know me better than I know myself, or maybe from your point of view, being told that I'm wrong (I admit when I'm wrong when I'm wrong but I don't think I'm wrong about my chart), and these are very Leonine themes of pride and ego. Mars in the 3rd house makes sense too, since the 3rd house is communication and I seem to communicate in an aggressive Mars-like way, whether I intend to or not. The 3rd house being the ruled by my Ascendant also makes sense and my mars is square to my moon regardless of what sign it's in.

You say it's difficult for people to analyze their own birth charts, but what makes you think it's not difficult to have someone else's ideas about who you are stubbornly imposed on you? I'm sorry, it's nothing personal but I'm just really wary of anyone thinking that they know more about me than I do myself. I'm sure that's not your intent, but that's how it comes off, when I say something doesn't resonate and you keep repeating it anyway. I mean, you're right...no one can be 100% objective about themselves...but no one is a mind reader either. Other people might better able to describe how you act, and how you communicate, but you know more about how you think and how you feel. I think this is especially true in this case. You can't know someone well enough to tell them their chart is wrong when you've never even met them once. That's difficult because even if you have met me, I act differently around different people, so differently that one would be unable to imagine how different I could be in another setting, and it's not a choice. It just happens.

To be fair, it makes sense why you'd see me as an Aries moon. It's more the other parts that don't add up, especially if we're going to be using the sidereal as my one and only "real" chart. The Gemini Ascendant, for example, fits me like a glove...except for the fact that I'm reclusive and introverted, but all that can be determined by other factors in my Western chart, like the planets in 12th house/6th house, Taurus/Scorpio axis.
Sure, I don't know you. I can only go with what you've told us about yourself and your vibe that comes across in your posts. And what you've told us about yourself and what your chart shows is not in alignment. That's all I was telling you.

And if you only like replies that agree with your preconceived ideas about yourself, then you should say so in your OP.
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Unread 09-17-2015, 01:09 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

Most of your planet are falling on the 2nd section of the chart (5th house-6th house) this section is more of an inner section in the zodiac. We are seeing a movement of planets from the fifth house to the sixth house. From the house of the self, I towards the house of the others, the house of servicing.

You are introvert since you are born during the waxing moon-the waxing moon is the introvert phase- and most of planets are below the horizon. When the energy is focused on the inner life (5th and 6th), there is a desire to fulfill the missing energy of the 11th and 12th house, you want to connect to a larger group and express yourself within the collective 11th house theme. You desire to be extrovert. Gemini is a an extrovert sign-it needs people as the case with every air signs- but with it ruling planet falls in an inner house, it energy will be an introvert. You are extrovert by signs but chosen to be an introvert having most of the energy focused inside. i see why you are a chatterbox but then an introvert. There is a good harmony with the Sun Libra and Gemini Asc. It produces a talkative person.Since air sings are the mental faculty of the zodiac, their self expression leans toward communication. But the energy of both signs is introvert in the chart.

Taurus moon is sociable contradiction to what people think. Most of the taurus people are very social and amiable unlike the other earth signs who have social anxiety. They are loving and warm. Taurus is the exaltation sign of the moon

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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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Most of your planet are falling on the 2nd section of the chart (5th house-6th house) this section is more of an inner section in the zodiac. We are seeing a movement of planets from the fifth house to the sixth house. From the house of the self, I towards the house of the others, the house of servicing.

You are introvert since you are born during the waxing moon-the waxing moon is the introvert phase- and most of planets are below the horizon. When the energy is focused on the inner life (5th and 6th), there is a desire to fulfill the missing energy of the 11th and 12th house, you want to connect to a larger group and express yourself within the collective 11th house theme. You desire to be extrovert. Gemini is a an extrovert sign-it needs people as the case with every air signs- but with it ruling planet falls in an inner house, it energy will be an introvert. You are extrovert by signs but chosen to be an introvert having most of the energy focused inside. i see why you are a chatterbox but then an introvert. There is a good harmony with the Sun Libra and Gemini Asc. It produces a talkative person.Since air sings are the mental faculty of the zodiac, their self expression leans toward communication. But the energy of both signs is introvert in the chart.
Interesting. It makes sense too.

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Taurus moon is sociable contradiction to what people think. Most of the taurus people are very social and amiable unlike the other earth signs who have social anxiety. They are loving and warm. Taurus is the exaltation sign of the moon
Well, you can be loving and warm and still have social anxiety (which I have). Social anxiety isn't the same as being cold-hearted and hating everyone.

I feel like this is very subjective. Honestly though, I don't really have much faith in the extrovert-introvert binary to begin with, but this is a whole other topic on it's own. Someone can enjoy being around people, but still be very quiet. Someone can prefer to be alone but still be very outspoken and talkative. Like, I hate being in large groups but that doesn't mean I like to be alone all the time either... I prefer communicating with others one-on-one, which I feel is a very Libra thing.. but I mean, I don't think the whole "introvert" vs "extrovert" thing is black and white.
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Unread 09-17-2015, 10:16 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

The thing that immediately strikes me as I read through this thread is that, as muchacho and craft94 debate which is the more salient planet for craft's relationship life - Moon or Venus - these are exactly the two planets in craft's chart that sit on the see-saw that is her nodal axis. (Am I right to assume "her?") The opposition between these two planets is on the axes of her nodes.
More, the Moon, which craft is quite adamantly insisting is the wrong place for us to focus on, is sitting on her South Node: That point in her chart which (if we accept common ideas about the nodes) she already knows all too well, karmically speaking, and is looking to move away from.
I don't think these things are coincidences...

Would love to think more about this but I actually have I run. If it's an interesting thought to anyone I could return to it later, when I'm not so busy in the non-Internet world...

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Unread 09-18-2015, 09:04 PM
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Re: Am I destined to be alone forever?

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- you have an unhealthy addiction to spicy food and fear ending up with a stomach ulcer (sounds more like Moon in Aries than in Taurus)
Interestingly enough, I just found out I have a pretty close Mars-Ceres conjunction and this could apply to either chart. Isn't Ceres associated with food?
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