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  #1  
Unread 09-17-2015, 03:11 AM
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Mars Square Pluto

Hi I just ended a really rough relationship of 3 years.
We had mars square pluto together. AND I have it natally. So I'm avoiding this aspect in relationships forever now. But I'm devastated. Which aspect shuold I seek out now in other people to heal the pain that this mars square pluto relationship caused me? Could it be my mars positively aspecting someone's pluto or my pluto positively aspecting someone's mars?? Help :'(

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Unread 09-17-2015, 06:09 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

First of all, you need to work with this aspect within yourself, before you worry about anybody else.

Mars is your natal aggression and assertiveness. Pluto is your capacity for profound transformation, as well as your tendency to need to prevail in a situation, no matter what the odds-- or costs. If we combine these two energies, you may have a dynamic in which you need to win arguments or will even become combative because here is this strong energy within yourself that you have to express somehow. At its worst Mars square Pluto people can even have a streak of cruelty. The chart will out.

You might start by paying attention to transits to your Mars and Pluto, especially the hard ones. What comes up when you have these? See if you can create more self-awareness about your aspect.

What might be some empowering uses of this energy? Mars rules athletes and Pluto deals with intense, life-and-death experiences. Without actually endangering yourself, you might take up some type of extreme sport, if you are not doing this already. Even just taking up long-distance running or setting goals at the gym that push you beyond what you think you can achieve. Reading or trying your hand at writing a murder mystery would also be in keeping with this energy.

With this type of self-improvement regiment, you won't have to project your Mars-Pluto on someone else that you care about.
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  #3  
Unread 09-17-2015, 07:06 AM
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Red face Re: Mars Square Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
First of all, you need to work with this aspect within yourself, before you worry about anybody else.

Mars is your natal aggression and assertiveness. Pluto is your capacity for profound transformation, as well as your tendency to need to prevail in a situation, no matter what the odds-- or costs. If we combine these two energies, you may have a dynamic in which you need to win arguments or will even become combative because here is this strong energy within yourself that you have to express somehow. At its worst Mars square Pluto people can even have a streak of cruelty. The chart will out.

You might start by paying attention to transits to your Mars and Pluto, especially the hard ones. What comes up when you have these? See if you can create more self-awareness about your aspect.

What might be some empowering uses of this energy? Mars rules athletes and Pluto deals with intense, life-and-death experiences. Without actually endangering yourself, you might take up some type of extreme sport, if you are not doing this already. Even just taking up long-distance running or setting goals at the gym that push you beyond what you think you can achieve. Reading or trying your hand at writing a murder mystery would also be in keeping with this energy.

With this type of self-improvement regiment, you won't have to project your Mars-Pluto on someone else that you care about.
thanks! i'll definitely start paying more attention to my mars and pluto transits. currently i have mars conjunct mars going on, and pluto trine moon that's been going on for a while. maybe 1 year i think. got any advice for these transits you could provide?

and do you think I should seek a person that I form a certain aspect with that would not be detrimental to me and could also help me heal from the mars square pluto relationship? and what would that aspect be? what are the most detrimental ones in your experience. so I can avoid them lol. I can't enter a relationship that will leave me scarred again.

thanks so much for ur help!
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  #4  
Unread 09-17-2015, 07:17 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

I think seeking a person to help you heal from your previous relationship is an awful burden to place on someone else. It's called finding someone "on the rebound." I think it's important to just let a relationship be a relationship before you start with a check-list of desirable and undesirable aspects. An immature person with a Mars-Pluto square might exhibit a cruel streak, whereas a mature person might work very hard at self-improvement or take up boxing. It's OK to be single for a while, to give those scars time to heal. Sometimes it takes a while for the right person to come along.
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  #5  
Unread 09-17-2015, 07:26 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I think seeking a person to help you heal from your previous relationship is an awful burden to place on someone else. It's called finding someone "on the rebound." I think it's important to just let a relationship be a relationship before you start with a check-list of desirable and undesirable aspects. An immature person with a Mars-Pluto square might exhibit a cruel streak, whereas a mature person might work very hard at self-improvement or take up boxing. It's OK to be single for a while, to give those scars time to heal. Sometimes it takes a while for the right person to come along.
and i'm not cruel!!! i'm saying in terms of a healthy aspect to have in a relationship. something that will uplift me. and im not just talking about a love relationship, any relationship. im a fun person to be around and i dont use people. im the one that was "used". i've been single/alone for a while, i need human contact. i barely even have friends. and if i didnt start a checklist right now and explored the aspects that are detrimental to me that would be reckless. i was just hoping for something a bit more objective. but its okay. at least i know where to start. thanks
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Unread 09-17-2015, 08:58 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

I didn't say you were cruel, emillie. What I said was that this can happen with people with Mars square Pluto.

If you think you're not like this at all, but you seemingly attract people who exemplify the worst outcomes of this aspect, it probably means that you've "disowned" your Mars-Pluto. You don't want to be a cruel or domineering person. But our charts will express themselves in one way or another, and consequently you will get some type of Mars-square-Pluto action in your life, even if you disown and externalize it.

This is why I suggest that it's better to work on an empowering interpretation of Mars-Pluto in your life, so that you don't express its negative potential or attract people into your life who fulfill this part of your horoscope in an externalized way.

This may sound harsh, emillie, and I don't mean it to be, but we can't go looking for other people to solve our issues with loneliness. Otherwise we project a lot of need onto them-- which they cannot truly fulfill because the loneliness comes from within.

You might consider why it is that "a fun person to be around" feels friendless. Quite possibly there is something else going on in your chart, like an unhappy Saturn, or affliction involving the 11th house of friends.

Do you want to post your chart?
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  #7  
Unread 09-17-2015, 09:53 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

Hi emillie,
I agree with waybread that you're probably in territory here where it's hard to say much that's helpful with just one aspect to go on. Posting a chart might help, if you're looking for more. If you want that level of closer scrutiny.
Entirely your decision, of course.

As I read waybread (please correct me if I'm wrong) she's saying something here that I think is helpful to keep in mind, at least as far as your NATAL Mars-Pluto aspect is concerned. All aspects have higher and lower expressions. The way to deal with a difficult aspect can't be to try and negate that aspect by neutralizing it with some other aspect.
With the millions of disagreements astro-type people can and do have, maybe the one thing we all have to agree on is that if something is in your natal, hey, that's always going to be a part of your life in one way or another. For some astrologers, in the case of hard aspects, perhaps they'd say that just leaves you up the creek. But for astrologers who advocate some notions of free will, it seems to me, the response has to be, "so with challenging aspects, better to figure out their meaning in your life and express them as positively as possible." So as I hear waybread, she's saying something I'd like to second: We have to figure out the higher expressions of our difficult NATAL aspects and live out those higher expressions, instead of the lower aspects.

From your post it sounds like you're coming out of a really difficult, trying relationship. I'm sorry to hear that.
Pointing out that we have to do our own inner work to get the best out of our own chart, and to heal, isn't intended to place blame on you for whatever happened in that relationship. I realize it can sound like that(!), but I don't think that's the intent. We weren't there. We'll never know what went on...

I get that you might actually be asking something like, "what synastry aspects should I look for in the future for a good relationship and what synastry aspects should I avoid?"
But at the same time, as the original post is actually worded, it just looks like you're asking if you can negate the pain, or possible future negative effects, of Pluto/Mars energy in your life by finding some other person with some other aspect that can neutralize Mars/Pluto effects. Again, that may not be the intent, but it reads like that. And for my two cents I just don't think things actually work that way.

Again, a clearer way to put the question might be "what kind of synastry aspects should I avoid in the future."

There to, I suspect, the answer might depend on your specific chart...

Last edited by Birch Dragon; 09-17-2015 at 09:57 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 09-18-2015, 03:31 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

I also have Mars square Pluto. Understand that even though it's not an easy aspect, it's powerful and really can be very positive. It gives strength and immense fortitude, both physically and emotionally. And by the way, I'm not cruel, either. (I always hear that--it's really a terrible stereotype.) I'm very empathic and actually a big softie, but I will say though that when really pushed or someone I love is threatened, I can very effectively go for the jugular. Never for the joy of conflict or inflicting pain, but protecting those that I count as mine.

This is an aspect that likes a little danger. You have to sort out what is acceptable in that realm, though. I skydive, rappel and unfortunately, I drive too fast. But the feel of gravity in my chest makes me feel alive. It's reassuring, and makes me feel present and real in a way I sometimes do not feel otherwise.

It's going to be a part of every relationship you have when you date within your generation, so unless you're going to avoid everyone your age, you've got to deal with it. And once you learn to deal with it on a personal level, the relationship part will be much easier.
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Unread 09-18-2015, 03:38 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

Thanks, BD, for saying this better than I did.

A principle of modern astrology is that we have basically 3 options for how we express our chart placements:

1. positive manifestations or
2. negative manifestations.
3. Alternatively (and with something as tough as a Mars-Pluto square,) a particular energy is just not OK with us. Maybe it's too aggressive for us. So we "split" it off from our sense of self and say that we're not like that. But the unwanted, orphaned planet/s have to express themselves in some way, so we tend to paste them onto other people who seemingly embody the unwanted planets' energies. Then we wonder why we tend to attract such people into our lives.

I believe in a choice-centered astrology. The chart will express itself in a way that is consistent with the meaning of its various placements. Venus in Aquarius isn't Venus in Scorpio and never will be. But we have some choice about how we express an Aquarian or Scorpio Venus.

The universe notices if we take small steps to help ourselves in finding the positive manifestations, incidentally.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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  #10  
Unread 09-18-2015, 08:52 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
I didn't say you were cruel, emillie. What I said was that this can happen with people with Mars square Pluto.
You know what? I think I got a little bit defensive when you said that, because I do acknowledge deep down this part of me that "wants" to be cruel. And it kills me inside. I realize this is probably because of my mars s. pluto and probably my ascendant scorpio badly aspecting my sun, mars AND moon... maybe It's like I'm really trying to avoid the possible negative qualities of scorpio ascendant that I could project. I'm just so afflicted myself that perhaps it's true, that I am trying to find someone who would "balance" all of this trouble... But you're right it probably never will happen the way I want it to.

I'm just really hoping there isn't another aspect in synastry that is as heartwrenching and devastating as mars s. pluto that I could come by. I don't know if it's just that bad for me though, maybe it wouldn't affect someone who didn't also have it natally as bad as it did for me. In your experience is that how it usually goes? Do you think a negative synastry aspect is going to feel worse if you also have it natally?

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If you think you're not like this at all, but you seemingly attract people who exemplify the worst outcomes of this aspect, it probably means that you've "disowned" your Mars-Pluto.
I didn't say that peple "exemplify the worst outcomes" of my own mars-pluto.. All I'm saying is I'm going to avoid this aspect in synastry. You're not really implying that I shouldn't care about this aspect in relationships rights? I've had experience with 2 mars s. pluto experiences that were bad, I know what it feels like.

Oh and yes I do agree that I should work on my own mars-pluto. But I was more concerned about synastry aspects. And no, I don't think it's mean to say that I shouldn't place a burden on someone, and that's not what I want to do either! What I'm saying is I don't want to enter another relationship that would leave me feeling like death

I will post my chart yes. Any advice that you would have for me is welcome.

Last edited by emillie; 09-18-2015 at 10:25 AM.
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  #11  
Unread 09-18-2015, 09:12 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

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Originally Posted by Birch Dragon View Post
Hi emillie,
I agree with waybread that you're probably in territory here where it's hard to say much that's helpful with just one aspect to go on. Posting a chart might help, if you're looking for more. If you want that level of closer scrutiny.
Entirely your decision, of course.
Of course, here's my birth info:
Day: Feb 7 1995 , Time: 1:19 AM , Location: Hull, Quebec

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Originally Posted by Birch Dragon View Post
With the millions of disagreements astro-type people can and do have, maybe the one thing we all have to agree on is that if something is in your natal, hey, that's always going to be a part of your life in one way or another.
YES! Definitely. Its not something thats ever going to disappear lol so I can't neglect it...

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From your post it sounds like you're coming out of a really difficult, trying relationship. I'm sorry to hear that.
Yes, extremely devastating, because our stronger aspects were positive ones (Moon sextile Mercury and Moon sextile Venus) but then there's Mars s. Pluto and Mars o. Saturn that completely destroy it... we also have my north node in Scorpio conjunct his moon in Scorpio so it's like he's with me all the time. which used to feel like an awesome thing when we were together, because he would leave me with beautiful words and kisses, but now he left me with an infinite amount of insults and evil words, so I'm left with that instead. he still tries to contact me by saying really cruel things. whatever he leaves me with, I feel permanently even when he's gone. and he's really bipolar so he would go from saying I love you to I hate you so many times, which was such an emotional roller coaster. one day, about a month ago, he was just sending me a bunch of insults and I couldn't take it anymore so I cut communication entirely. haven't talked to him since. but I have read messages that he sent me... it's like I still want to have SOME part of him in my life but then he's really cruel so why should I want that? I'm not a masochist!!! he's the pisces masochist!! it's not fair. all of the cruel things he's told me, I would still never in a million years be able to call him any of those things. so basically that's what happened, that's why I cut him out. he doesn't care about my feelings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birch Dragon View Post
Again, a clearer way to put the question might be "what kind of synastry aspects should I avoid in the future."

There to, I suspect, the answer might depend on your specific chart...
Yes! that's what I was trying to say It would be so appreciated if you could take a look and give me any advice you think I might need.

Last edited by emillie; 09-18-2015 at 09:43 AM.
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  #12  
Unread 09-18-2015, 09:23 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

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Originally Posted by Kali View Post
I also have Mars square Pluto. Understand that even though it's not an easy aspect, it's powerful and really can be very positive. It gives strength and immense fortitude, both physically and emotionally. And by the way, I'm not cruel, either. (I always hear that--it's really a terrible stereotype.) I'm very empathic and actually a big softie, but I will say though that when really pushed or someone I love is threatened, I can very effectively go for the jugular. Never for the joy of conflict or inflicting pain, but protecting those that I count as mine.

This is an aspect that likes a little danger. You have to sort out what is acceptable in that realm, though. I skydive, rappel and unfortunately, I drive too fast. But the feel of gravity in my chest makes me feel alive. It's reassuring, and makes me feel present and real in a way I sometimes do not feel otherwise.
Hahahaha about the car thing!!! I totally relate. But I don't drive, I play racing games instead xD maybe that's a reason I know deep inside that I shouldn't drive, because I would be reckless lol

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It's going to be a part of every relationship you have when you date within your generation, so unless you're going to avoid everyone your age, you've got to deal with it. And once you learn to deal with it on a personal level, the relationship part will be much easier.
YUP I realized that I have it with all people a bit older than me, and it might be a challenge to avoid them all but I take that challenge over another relationship leaving me feeling like death lol
I still have to calculate until exactly what time my mars stops squaring someone's pluto. I think it's just people that are 2-3 years older than me that I have to ignore. But I haven't done the exact calculations yet. I think me having to deal with my own mars s. pluto is one thing, and mars s. pluto in synastry another. If I already have to deal with it natally it makes sense that having it in synastry too would be devastating and something that I shuold avoid, I think. But wait, have you ever been in a mars s. pluto relationship?? sorry if that's too personal to ask or something. I'm just curious.
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Unread 09-18-2015, 09:40 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Thanks, BD, for saying this better than I did.

A principle of modern astrology is that we have basically 3 options for how we express our chart placements:

1. positive manifestations or
2. negative manifestations.
3. Alternatively (and with something as tough as a Mars-Pluto square,) a particular energy is just not OK with us. Maybe it's too aggressive for us. So we "split" it off from our sense of self and say that we're not like that. But the unwanted, orphaned planet/s have to express themselves in some way, so we tend to paste them onto other people who seemingly embody the unwanted planets' energies. Then we wonder why we tend to attract such people into our lives.

I believe in a choice-centered astrology. The chart will express itself in a way that is consistent with the meaning of its various placements. Venus in Aquarius isn't Venus in Scorpio and never will be. But we have some choice about how we express an Aquarian or Scorpio Venus.

The universe notices if we take small steps to help ourselves in finding the positive manifestations, incidentally.
Yesssss that's right I knew all of this instinctively, probably cause I'm an aquarius. we're the astrologers of astrology right? I've read that a few times and I think that makes sense. You put down in words (better than I could) what I understood already about astrology. pretty cool. are you an aquarius sun too?? I've been interested in astrology for maybe 4-5 years now. but I never really went farther than paying attention to the basics like my planets and aspects, other people's, and synastry aspects, as well as composites and houses a bit. I've been paying more attention to houses now though because duh that's important. I'm always learning and I'm willing to learn anything, but I am a stubborn aquarius and moon in taurus after all xD so I'm going about this astrology thing kind of slower than I should.. but oh well... I laugh when people are like "drrr astrology is bullpoop durrrr" because little do they know I can find out all their secrets >: ) hehe
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Unread 09-18-2015, 09:46 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

Thanks so much all of you btw for helping me. I don't have anyone else in my life that knows about astrology, and I feel like people who know how people work would know how to help me better than anyone else. (do I make sense?)
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Unread 09-18-2015, 01:29 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

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Originally Posted by emillie View Post
But wait, have you ever been in a mars s. pluto relationship?? sorry if that's too personal to ask or something. I'm just curious.
My Mars is tightly conjunct my moon, in the 5th house, so I have the conjunction to deal with, and the fact that both are square to Pluto. The moon/Mars combo is tough. And then the moon/Pluto is quite a ride, too. The sterotype with that one is the devouring mother, yes, I have one of those. Manipulative, controlling, etc., and growing up meant getting the heck off the same continent! Pluto is in aspect to every planet and angle in my chart. Most are pleasant, some are more difficult, but I've lived with this for decades and I wouldn't trade off my Pluto aspects at all--not even my Mars square! So...now that you know a little background with my Pluto, let me say yes to your question. For years and years I always dated older than myself, then I met someone born within several months of me. Someone with his own Pluto issues, with a Scorpio ascendant and Mars, to boot. His Pluto was opposite Venus and Chiron, square his moon. So we both had the moon square (both had psychiatric mothers, too) and he was dealing with my Mars aspecting his Pluto, and I had his Venus aspecting my Pluto. It was this smoldering, deeply obsessive relationship and we were propelled deeply into each other's dark spaces. It was one of these relationships where we shut out the outside world because nothing else seemed to matter and the most soulful relationship I've ever experienced. So when it ended, it was utterly devastating. I would wake up sobbing in the middle of the night, I went on herbal antidepressants, and still, years later, I feel like he was the one I was meant to be with, but that's a trip on the crazy train that I'm not prepared to board. Not because the relationship itself was crazy, it actually wasn't. I just don't ever want to face that depth of loss again. And after admitting that, I will go on to say that it was utterly transforming. Even though it was heartbreaking, my life path completely changed. I literally wouldn't be doing what I do now without that particular relationship and heart ache.

So keep your chin up, Pluto showers many gifts on us, you just have to be ready to let him transform you into something amazing!
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Unread 09-25-2015, 12:04 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

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Originally Posted by Kali View Post
It was one of these relationships where we shut out the outside world because nothing else seemed to matter and the most soulful relationship I've ever experienced. So when it ended, it was utterly devastating.
This is exactly how my relationship was with Gab!!! And I also feel like he is still the one I should be with

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So keep your chin up, Pluto showers many gifts on us, you just have to be ready to let him transform you into something amazing!
Thank you. This means a lot.
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Unread 09-25-2015, 12:21 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

I'm curious if anyone has looked up my chart :/ ?

Maybe if I just put it here it will be easier. I'll put his too for more perspective.

mine:


and his:


How would you describe our relationship?
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Unread 09-25-2015, 12:36 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

You might get a better response on this if you go over to astro.com and do the charts there. And lose the asteroids.

The ones you've posted are pretty much unreadable owing to how they're formatted.
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  #19  
Unread 09-25-2015, 12:56 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

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You might get a better response on this if you go over to astro.com and do the charts there. And lose the asteroids.

The ones you've posted are pretty much unreadable owing to how they're formatted.
okay thanks :] will do that now.
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Unread 09-25-2015, 01:00 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

my chart:


his chart:
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  #21  
Unread 09-26-2015, 07:50 PM
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graay ghost graay ghost is offline
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

Looking at those charts and blaming a failed relationship on "mars square pluto" doesn't make much sense. If you have a natal mars square pluto, nearly everyone in your age group is going to have a pluto that squares your mars because pluto is such a damned slow-moving planet. Unless you are going to start dating people much younger or much older than yourself, you're not going to be able to avoid it.
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  #22  
Unread 09-26-2015, 10:26 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

Pluto is very slow-moving, but Mars moves about one degree every two days. If we allow a 7-degree orb, we'll get about a 2-week Mars-Pluto square about twice per year. (Roughly speaking-- not allowing for retrogradation or Pluto's own movement.)
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  #23  
Unread 09-26-2015, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Pluto is very slow-moving, but Mars moves about one degree every two days. If we allow a 7-degree orb, we'll get about a 2-week Mars-Pluto square about twice per year. (Roughly speaking-- not allowing for retrogradation or Pluto's own movement.)
If you look at the charts she posted, "his" Mars is in Cancer and not square either person's Pluto. It's "her" Mars that is square both plutos. Meaning that anyone in her age group is going to have a Pluto that is square her Mars.
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  #24  
Unread 09-27-2015, 01:41 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
Looking at those charts and blaming a failed relationship on "mars square pluto" doesn't make much sense. If you have a natal mars square pluto, nearly everyone in your age group is going to have a pluto that squares your mars because pluto is such a damned slow-moving planet. Unless you are going to start dating people much younger or much older than yourself, you're not going to be able to avoid it.
dude, you dont freaking know me. and its not just mars square pluto. i did go on about that a lot but its not just that its also his saturn opposite my mars. pluto mars and saturn are the hardest aspects in relationships. and i know that smartass, i'm not stupid. if avoiding mars square pluto in synastry makes me happy well so be it! what are you gonna do about it?
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  #25  
Unread 09-27-2015, 01:43 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto

Quote:
Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
If you look at the charts she posted, "his" Mars is in Cancer and not square either person's Pluto. It's "her" Mars that is square both plutos. Meaning that anyone in her age group is going to have a Pluto that is square her Mars.
and btw, its not like pluto square mars goes on forever, its only people that are 2-3 years older than me that i have it with soo.
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