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  #1  
Unread 03-31-2013, 09:13 PM
LoneMars LoneMars is offline
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Guess the ascendant!

Just when I thought I had it all figured out, I find out that my birth time may not be even close.

I'm getting two completely different birth times from my parents and my birth certificate doesn't say. Would anyone care to offer a suggestion as to what my ascendant might be? My moon sign also might be under question...

Here is chart w/o birth time: http://imgur.com/roqdtjr
Here is a current photo:

I'll give you some choices. Let me know what you think.

A. Libra Asc, Pluto late in 1st, Leo Moon
B. Aquarius Asc, Mars conjunct Asc, Cancer moon
C. Any ascendant between Aquarius and Libra

Thanks for your input!


Last edited by LoneMars; 04-02-2013 at 04:02 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 03-31-2013, 11:07 PM
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1magu1t1on_13 1magu1t1on_13 is offline
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Re: Guess the ascendant!

i'm guessing sag
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  #3  
Unread 04-01-2013, 12:17 AM
LoneMars LoneMars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1magu1t1on_13 View Post
i'm guessing sag
That's so interesting. I was reading descriptions of ascendants a and kept coming back to sag myself. I don't know if that's possible. Well, I guess anythings is possible...

One of my possible birth times (9am) would make me an aquarius rising and my uranus is conjunct jupiter in Sagittarius. I wonder if that could be it.

Thanks for your response!
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  #4  
Unread 04-01-2013, 01:08 AM
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Re: Guess the ascendant!

yeah, might not be on the ascendant, but on one of the other angles
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  #5  
Unread 04-01-2013, 01:15 AM
LoneMars LoneMars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1magu1t1on_13 View Post
yeah, might not be on the ascendant, but on one of the other angles
Yeah, I guess 9am could put midheaven in sag. Here's my 9am chart. http://imgur.com/8RSdcAh

Last edited by LoneMars; 04-01-2013 at 01:28 AM.
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  #6  
Unread 04-01-2013, 03:27 PM
LoneMars LoneMars is offline
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Re: Guess the ascendant!

Any more input would be greatly appreciated. I think I'll take my picture down this evening.

If you need any additional information, let me know.

Thanks!
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  #7  
Unread 04-01-2013, 03:47 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Guess the ascendant!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneMars View Post
Any more input would be greatly appreciated. I think I'll take my picture down this evening.

If you need any additional information, let me know.

Thanks!
Guessing is fun - better to use a trusted and reliable ancient method known as the Trutine of Hermes aka The Prenatal Epoch to verify ascendant of a natal chart

check out the in-depth info at http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm as its valuable for rectification - particularly if the birth in question was one that occurred without surgical intervention
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
An astrological technique from antiquity generally known as the Prenatal Epoch

'....Ascendant, or its opposite, at birth, is Moon's position at conception.


....Known as "Trutine of Hermes," from Hermes Trismegistus who stated the law as follows:

"The place of the Moon at conception becomes the birth ascendant or its opposite point."



"But this proved to be but one-half of a very important law, for while the...

Ascendant at birth was the place of the Moon at a certain Epoch, the Ascendant or its opposite point at this Epoch was the place of the Moon at birth

....a very remarkable interchange of factors." E.H. Bailey.



– details viewable at http://www.darrelyngunzburg.com/PDFs/PreNatalEpoch.pdf


The prenatal Epoch idea is so well known that astrology software such as Solar Fire allows the user to calculate their prenatal Epoch. The idea of the prenatal Epoch is also useful because it is often decisive in chart rectification


*****EDIT: I noticed that Solar Fire calculated the prenatal Epoch when I purchased my own personal a copy of Solar Fire bought directly from the company and for which I paid the full original price which was not cheap!

HOWEVER my software copy of Solar Fire is currently installed on an older computer that is no longer in use due to my having upgraded with new computer equipment.

FURTHERMORE I have no interest in using Solar Fire because I purchased and installed Placidus 7 and Porphyrius Magus obtained from Rumen Kolev at Babylonian Astrology website http://www.babylonianastrology.com/

NEVERTHELESS I retain the disc I purchased directly from Solar Fire i.e. it is not a second hand disc so I paid full price. I keep that disc for several reasons, one of which is that I may need it. I prefer to calculate the prenatal Epoch without the use of software since I have personally found that is the more accurate method

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #8  
Unread 04-01-2013, 05:39 PM
LoneMars LoneMars is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Guessing is fun - better to use a trusted and reliable ancient method known as the Trutine of Hermes aka The Prenatal Epoch to verify ascendant of a natal chart

check out the in-depth info at http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm as its valuable for rectification - particularly if the birth in question was one that occurred without surgical intervention
Thanks for your response!

I'm trying to figure out this epoch thing. If you are saying that my ascendant would be the placement of the moon at the time of conception then wouldn't I need to know when exactly I was conceived? If you just go 273 days back, the moon will always be in about the same place it was when you were born (28 day moon cycle). Plus the moon moves about 12 degrees a day. So you'd need the time of conception too.

I looked at some algorithms for determining conception time based on placement of the ascendant, but isn't that circular logic? Wouldn't I need to know my ascendant to get my conception time, to calculate my epoch, to get my ascendant?

That being said, I calculated it for my daughter and it came out pretty close.

Maybe I'm not understanding. Can you explain?

Thanks for your response!

Last edited by LoneMars; 04-01-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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  #9  
Unread 04-01-2013, 06:35 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Guess the ascendant!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneMars View Post
Thanks for your response!

I'm trying to figure out this epoch thing. If you are saying that my ascendant would be the placement of the moon at the time of conception then wouldn't I need to know when exactly I was conceived? If you just go 273 days back, the moon will always be in about the same place it was when you were born (28 day moon cycle). Plus the moon moves about 12 degrees a day. So you'd need the time of conception too.

I looked at some algorithms for determining conception time based on placement of the ascendant, but isn't that circular logic? Wouldn't I need to know my ascendant to get my conception time, to calculate my epoch, to get my ascendant?

That being said, I calculated it for my daughter and it came out pretty close.

- you'll find that the logic is not 'circular' but is simply based on the location of the moon at birth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneMars View Post
Maybe I'm not understanding. Can you explain?

Thanks for your response
!
There are quite a few instructions regarding variations of moon placement to read

i.e. The moon at birth is the ascendant at conception

clicking on the link I posted earlier i.e. to http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm displays an article detailing all of the various laws determining the time of conception aka Epoch

e.g. whether moon is increasing or decreasing at birth

and

is above or below the horizon at birth

and so on

all these different factors are taken into account by the instructive article

determining those variations

is the way to find the count for the number of days in each particular case

the number of days are not always precisely 273 days because the number of days varies according to whether:

(1) the moon is increasing or decreasing at birth

and

(2) is above or below the horizon at birth
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #10  
Unread 04-01-2013, 08:03 PM
LoneMars LoneMars is offline
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Re: Guess the ascendant!

Thanks jup! I read the article and several others. I see you can compute a time approximately 10 months before you were born in which the moon/Asc correlates to the Asc/moon in your natal chart. That's an amazing astronomical pattern. This could even be the time of conception.

I just don't see how it is a tool for computing the ascendant when the birth time is completely unknown. The article you site states the following:

"It is to be understood that the 273 days referred to in the above table is the normal period of gestation, or nine solar or ten lunar months. This normal period is increased or decreased in accordance with the distance of the Moon from either the Ascendant or Descendant, and "x" is a certain number of days corresponding to this distance obtained by dividing the distance in degrees by thirteen degrees, the latter being the average daily motion of the Moon."

Therefore, you must already know the ascendant in order to compute the correct days of "gestation". Therefore, this could not be a tool for determining birth time within a 24 hour period.

Again, please explain if I am misunderstanding. Are the days of gestation not determined by the distance of the moon from the ascendant in the birth chart? Would you not need a birth time to make this calculation?

It seems to me that this is an astronomical pattern that would hold true for any date/time. It's fascinating, and may or may not show a correlation to conception. I'll have to explore it more at some point. Thank you!
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  #11  
Unread 04-01-2013, 08:22 PM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Guess the ascendant!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneMars View Post
Thanks jup! I read the article and several others. I see you can compute a time approximately 10 months before you were born in which the moon/Asc correlates to the Asc/moon in your natal chart. That's an amazing astronomical pattern. This could even be the time of conception.

I just don't see how it is a tool for computing the ascendant when the birth time is completely unknown. The article you site states the following:

"It is to be understood that the 273 days referred to in the above table is the normal period of gestation, or nine solar or ten lunar months. This normal period is increased or decreased in accordance with the distance of the Moon from either the Ascendant or Descendant, and "x" is a certain number of days corresponding to this distance obtained by dividing the distance in degrees by thirteen degrees, the latter being the average daily motion of the Moon."

Therefore, you must already know the ascendant in order to compute the correct days of "gestation". Therefore, this could not be a tool for determining birth time within a 24 hour period.
If one practices using the method on numerous charts one realizes that in fact the time of birth may be determined with a 24 hour period simply because the rules INCLUDE assessment of:

SEX OR 'CRITICAL' DEGREES

These sex or 'critical' degrees confirm the sex of the subject. They are the central points of their respective orbs, which extend both ways to the end of orb.

It will be noticed, therefore, that when one degree of a certain sign is in one sex, the opposite sign and degree are in the opposite sex. Hence all that is necessary in order to place one of the factors in the proper sex position is to vary the count by fourteen days, making the period of gestation either shorter or longer, which will bring the proper ascending degree...”

100 WORD QUOTE:

“Application of sex/'critical' degrees:

'Allow proper orb of influence for Moon and Ascendant in natal chart. This immediately shows whether masculine or feminine degree rises, also the sex position of the Moon. Notice no matter what degree the Ascendant is, it will always occupy a position within orb of one of these sex points, either masculine or feminine; BUT Moon's position may fall outside the orb of influence, and this gives what is termed a negative position of the Moon. If the Moon is negative in the birth chart, we have EITHER a strictly regular OR an irregular Epoch...”...'

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneMars View Post
Again, please explain if I am misunderstanding. Are the days of gestation not determined by the distance of the moon from the ascendant in the birth chart? Would you not need a birth time to make this calculation?

It seems to me that this is an astronomical pattern that would hold true for any date/time. It's fascinating, and may or may not show a correlation to conception. I'll have to explore it more at some point. Thank you!
Thorough reading/study of the article answers all questions

A book on the method is available at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prenatal-Epo.../dp/1933303247
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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  #12  
Unread 04-06-2013, 12:57 PM
LoneMars LoneMars is offline
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Re: Guess the ascendant!

As a follow up to my question, I submitted my photo to astrofaces.com as capricorn sun, moon/Asc unknown. Using face recognition software, they matched me to a cap/Leo/Virgo girl. I never considered it, but Virgo rising is entirely possible. I'd love to hear what everyone thinks.

From the homepage, go to Clearest Group, Cap sun/Leo moon to see my match.
http://www.astrofaces.com

If you've never been to astrofaces.com, I encourage you to check it out. I just recently came across it. The premise behind the site is awesome. If enough photos are submitted, we could actually establish clear classifiable physical distinctions based on sun/moon/Asc placement. But the only way that can happen is if people submit photos. I have absolutely nothing to do with this website. I just think its wonderful.

Thanks for everyone's help!
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