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  #26  
Unread 03-19-2012, 06:36 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

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Originally Posted by Ixaee View Post
So.. the question is; what steps will you take to rectify it?

Will fighting and pushing your way through help anything at all? Or would it only cause more mayhem?
Opting out of the system as regularly as possible. I respect the need for an integrated social system which helps us all work toward a common goal (survival), however that does not mean I coalesce to every new initiative. The basic and most threatening force behind these new spying initiatives is a reversal of the legal maxim that has so revolutionized civic rights, stating that we are "innocent until proven guilty". This technology fosters a reversal of that attitude, it sets the polarity to a negative and creates a paranoid government.

People keep pointing to conspiracy theorists as the paranoid ones in all of this. While paranoia is certainly a trait of the conspiracy theorist archetype, it is occurring for good reason. Governments internationally are themselves becoming increasingly paranoid, just as much if not moreso than conspiracy theorists. Only in the case of governments, their rather schizophrenic behavior is considered normal, acceptable and even prudent! Few people are even remotely aware of the ripple effect these subtle changes in mass psychology are going to have on future societies. Fewer still are aware how much of an effect their own attitude is having it seems. The complacency, the dismissals, coalescence and making excuses for things like the full body scanners, the RFID chip initiatives, the spy devices absolutely everywhere... is anyone able to hold accountable the arbiters of these devices?

Can you answer that, Ixaee? Can you hold accountable the ones in control of this technology or is that capacity beyond your legal rights? Is it beyond your own expertise as well? Why are you okay with that?

I want children someday and I don't want them coming into a world where their every movement is logged, catechized and constantly tailored to the will and whim of some hidden technofascist control grid beyond their control to resist.

The simple point comes down to this; with these technologies in place, power is inevitably being funneled to a few small organizations with the ability to directly monitor activities. Bureaucrats will increasingly rely on the information from these small organizations. Since they cannot actually look at what is going on all the time, there is going to be a systemic bias informing the decisions of these political entities. There is a very real chance for that to fuel the kind of paranoia that ushers in fascism simply because the illusion of omniscience will want to maintain itself, thus government will become increasingly more probing, more paranoid and in an effort to keep track of everyone's movements better, measures will be taken to normalize people's behavior.

That is what this has a very real possibility of leading to. People who have very few options for how they live are easier to keep track of. Keeping track of people naturally makes you want to keep track of them more often and that becomes easier to do when their behaviors are more predictable. It becomes even easier to do when you have an 'acceptable' pattern of behavior which you intend everyone to keep in line with, since it is easier to record deviations from this set line. The more structured this set line becomes, the easier it is to spot perturbations from it. This, in a nutshell, is how a fascist state evolves. It is a very organic process, much like a disease that is a simple result of faulty logic, fear and just the right amount of technological power.

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  #27  
Unread 03-19-2012, 08:14 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

To toss in a few more cents, I must say, as a computer programmer, that they don't need much more to track you than they already have. Every bit of your digital communications (phone, cell phone voice calls, texting, internet, etc.) are already exposed. They only need sanctioned sniffers (which they already have in abundance) to know everything you've said to anyone through those digital means. Anyone who has never heard of the Information Awareness Office should look it up. It's a government-run (DARPA) project that seeks to achieve "total information awareness" (in exactly those words... it's even on Wikipedia; link below). The goal is to use this giant, categorised collection of everyone's information (all information connected to U.S. citizens, including things you've done in other countries... any information that can be tied to you) to "track and monitor terrorists." Let's remember that a "terrorist" is whoever they say is a terrorist! Any individual of interest is already documented and exposed by every digital action they take. Every credit card transaction, every email, every thing you do through a digital medium is stored, tagged, and organised for review by an automated system. The IAO has been known to harvest information directly from Facebook and other major social networks. Considering the fact that Google/Alexa indexes and stores the entire internet several times per year, I would have to assume that they are used as an information resource as well.

There is no such thing as privacy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informa...areness_Office
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  #28  
Unread 03-19-2012, 08:31 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
To toss in a few more cents, I must say, as a computer programmer, that they don't need much more to track you than they already have. Every bit of your digital communications (phone, cell phone voice calls, texting, internet, etc.) are already exposed. They only need sanctioned sniffers (which they already have in abundance) to know everything you've said to anyone through those digital means. Anyone who has never heard of the Information Awareness Office should look it up. It's a government-run (DARPA) project that seeks to achieve "total information awareness" (in exactly those words... it's even on Wikipedia; link below). The goal is to use this giant, categorised collection of everyone's information (all information connected to U.S. citizens, including things you've done in other countries... any information that can be tied to you) to "track and monitor terrorists." Let's remember that a "terrorist" is whoever they say is a terrorist! Any individual of interest is already documented and exposed by every digital action they take. Every credit card transaction, every email, every thing you do through a digital medium is stored, tagged, and organised for review by an automated system. The IAO has been known to harvest information directly from Facebook and other major social networks. Considering the fact that Google/Alexa indexes and stores the entire internet several times per year, I would have to assume that they are used as an information resource as well.

There is no such thing as privacy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informa...areness_Office
And again, just to really really drive the point home, DARPA doesn't have many people to answer to. The chain of command is almost entirely out of the public eye.
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  #29  
Unread 03-19-2012, 10:01 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

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Originally Posted by Zonark View Post
I want children someday and I don't want them coming into a world where their every movement is logged, catechized and constantly tailored to the will and whim of some hidden technofascist control grid beyond their control to resist.
Sorry if this seems flippant, but that sounds a lot like you're describing Saturn, or the forces associated with said planet.
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  #30  
Unread 03-19-2012, 10:05 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

KONY 2012 Exposed: African Invasion Psyop http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv4UwyGFKks&feature=related
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  #31  
Unread 03-19-2012, 11:38 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

The same people who are telling everyone the world is ending in less than a year are now telling everyone to unplug from the internet to save themsevles from being spied on while they play Farmville and look at bondage ****.

You guys are absolutely hilarious I come to these threads just to laugh at your simple-mindedness.
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  #32  
Unread 03-19-2012, 11:45 PM
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historical truths are anything but simpleminded.
maybe watch some star trek and hope to catch the allegories.
might be more along the lines of your learning curve?
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  #33  
Unread 03-19-2012, 11:51 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

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Originally Posted by MaeMae View Post
historical truths are anything but simpleminded.
maybe watch some star trek and hope to catch the allegories. might be more along the lines of your learning curve?
Characteristics of conspiracy theorists:

They're control freaks. They can't accept that things just happen. There has to be a reason.

They're deeply suspicious. Somebody, somewhere, is out to get them.

They blame others. Why live your life when you can say it's out of your own control? Something went wrong? Not my fault! Something went right? Fight the power!

They're arrogant. They honestly believe they're more knowledgeable than the "mindless sheep" that follow the system. It's a superiority complex that is confirmed by the "mindless sheep" not caring about their wacky antics, which they take for stupidity.

They don't understand how complex things really are. A small group of people controlling an entire country? Are you smoking something? Do you know how vast and intricate "the system" is?

Put it all together, you have a person who can't accept reality, is overly suspicious, can't accept blame, is arrogant, and quite frankly, ignorant.

But you're right, I'll watch Star Trek (for some reason?) and see if I can learn something from it.
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  #34  
Unread 03-20-2012, 12:10 AM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

So we are expected to naively believe that there are neither secret plans nor secret agreements of any kind involved at all - ever - in politics/business/finance!!

Common Knowledge Online Definition of the word 'conspiracy' is:

1. a secret plan or agreement to carry out an illegal or harmful act, esp with political motivation


2. the act of making such plans in secret

3 - a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose

conspiracy of silence - a conspiracy not to talk about some situation or event - e.g. "there was a conspiracy of silence about police brutality"

Gunpowder Plot - a conspiracy in 1605 in England to blow up James I and the Houses of Parliament to avenge the persecution of Catholics in England; led by Guy Fawkes


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  #35  
Unread 03-20-2012, 12:54 AM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
So we are expected to naively believe that there are neither secret plans nor secret agreements of any kind involved at all - ever - in politics/business/finance!!

Common Knowledge Online Definition of the word 'conspiracy' is:

1. a secret plan or agreement to carry out an illegal or harmful act, esp with political motivation


2. the act of making such plans in secret

3 - a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose

conspiracy of silence - a conspiracy not to talk about some situation or event - e.g. "there was a conspiracy of silence about police brutality"

Gunpowder Plot - a conspiracy in 1605 in England to blow up James I and the Houses of Parliament to avenge the persecution of Catholics in England; led by Guy Fawkes

There are secret plans everywhere. Right now your significant other is forming a conspiracy to have children with someone other than you.

But to say that the government is going to sit around and watch you flip channels on your couch is ridiculous.
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  #36  
Unread 03-20-2012, 12:55 AM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

Everyone on this thread and elsewhere can relax (to an extent) because there is no small group in control of the system. "The system" has become so complicated that it is its own entity and it no longer needs a small group of people to control it. Everyone is servant to it. I say "servant" rather than "victim" because a parasite such as this does not want to kill off its host.
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  #37  
Unread 03-20-2012, 01:03 AM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

i know mso's not from missoura, but sure near sounds like it. show me don't tell me.
have you yet to have a post deleted on AW without your knowlege? if so, you have been silenced without warning. maybe banned because they didn't like what you had to say. maybe edited?
multiply that exponentially and "conceptualize" the idea on a larger scale since you can't intellectuality.
Never confuse critical thinking with simple~mindedness. Veeeery dangerous. Most intelligent people know that when/if "s*hit happens" it's accidental.
This stuff is sooooo far beyond "s*hit happens" that I implore you to read some history books/people that they don't feed you in gov't funded institutions.
Ask the Nixon / Mc Govern era people about Watergate.
As I have always learned and believed, if it can happen to anyone else who steps out of drawn lines, it can happen to anybody.
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  #38  
Unread 03-20-2012, 05:38 AM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

MSO, please keep up the good work. Of course, you are correct. Just because we study astrology doesn't mean we have to fall for every paranoid conspiracy theory that any Joe or his uncle feels like posting on youtube.

Of course there are bad things to be said about the CIA. But I would challenge the rest of you people to get on their website and learn what it is they do that you won't find on Joe Schmoe's conspiracy blog.

Characteristics of conspiracy theorists: if you disagree with them, they will call you naive, a dupe of .... [fill in the blanks] or "bought and paid for by...." [fill in the blanks.] This brilliant logic alone is enough to make me question the depth of their data base.

But actually, MSO, do watch Star Trek-- preferably The Next Generation version. It is full of ethical people facing horrendous challenges, yet working together to surmount them with a spirit of teamwork, integrity, and even occasionally a sense of humour.

Zonark, when I had my children, the Cold War, ZPG, and environmental movements were in full swing. A lot of my peers discussed whether it was ethical to bring children into such a world. Thank God I did. Somehow the world managed to get along, notwithstanding.
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Last edited by waybread; 03-20-2012 at 05:42 AM.
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  #39  
Unread 03-20-2012, 06:04 AM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

Look guys, it's cool that you're all so very nonchalant about potential threats to political freedom, it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round right? I'm really not being paranoid, ludditic, overreactive etc about this though. I think I've been pretty reasonable. You're free to let INTERPOL watch you poop or have the FDA regulate your daily caloric intake and tax your farts for the good of the colony if it really doesn't bother you, but it's not for me, I don't see this trend going anywhere good and I don't plan on just shutting up about it because I care about you poor naive little buggers.
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  #40  
Unread 03-20-2012, 06:17 AM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

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Originally Posted by Moog View Post
Sorry if this seems flippant, but that sounds a lot like you're describing Saturn, or the forces associated with said planet.
While a fascist state controlled by a gridwork of vigilant electronic eyes would certainly be pretty Saturnian, no I am not describing Saturn with that statement. What I'm describing is a pretty specific sort of scenario.
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  #41  
Unread 03-20-2012, 06:20 AM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

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Originally Posted by Rebel Uranian View Post
Everyone on this thread and elsewhere can relax (to an extent) because there is no small group in control of the system. "The system" has become so complicated that it is its own entity and it no longer needs a small group of people to control it. Everyone is servant to it. I say "servant" rather than "victim" because a parasite such as this does not want to kill off its host.
Subjectively true, yet there are degrees of power which individuals and groups have within ~the system~. It is prudent to be mindful of potential abuses of the system.
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  #42  
Unread 03-20-2012, 06:32 AM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

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MSO, please keep up the good work. Of course, you are correct. Just because we study astrology doesn't mean we have to fall for every paranoid conspiracy theory that any Joe or his uncle feels like posting on youtube.

Of course there are bad things to be said about the CIA. But I would challenge the rest of you people to get on their website and learn what it is they do that you won't find on Joe Schmoe's conspiracy blog.

Characteristics of conspiracy theorists: if you disagree with them, they will call you naive, a dupe of .... [fill in the blanks] or "bought and paid for by...." [fill in the blanks.] This brilliant logic alone is enough to make me question the depth of their data base.

But actually, MSO, do watch Star Trek-- preferably The Next Generation version. It is full of ethical people facing horrendous challenges, yet working together to surmount them with a spirit of teamwork, integrity, and even occasionally a sense of humour.

Zonark, when I had my children, the Cold War, ZPG, and environmental movements were in full swing. A lot of my peers discussed whether it was ethical to bring children into such a world. Thank God I did. Somehow the world managed to get along, notwithstanding.
Oh I don't plan on it stopping me from attempting to have children. It just makes me that much more vigilant.

While it is a bit annoying to be called naive, a sheeple etc, some 'conspiracy theorists' are just very frustrated with how lackadaisical most people seem to be when presented with what looks like compelling evidence of a problem to the ~conspiracy theorist~. It's a different sort of person that is more attuned to conspiracies, not a defective person either. The term conspiracy theorist has almost become a dirty word today and that in itself is a bit distressing for people like myself who look deeply into these things out of a heightened acuity toward the potential for things to go horribly wrong and a genuine desire to prevent those possibilities. It can get out of hand, sure, but I think that people can be far too dismissive and not at all reasonable about these sorts of things out of fear of being seen as a ~crazy conspiracy theorist~.
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  #43  
Unread 03-20-2012, 11:53 AM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

In the end i don't point to bad guys, it is highly complicated, but like all religions it is used both in the negative and positive, it would be funny noting how many conflicts have been produced in history, that the center point isn't Islamic, or Protestant or Catholic, but Hermetic....oops!

HISTORY MATTERS!!!!!

I'm not attacking the United States...it is a secret religion, we will start with America, but it won't finish there!

Links below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/Covert_U.S._...change_actions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_act...c_of_the_Congo

Sorry it took time to make links work properly, sometimes it is my fault!

Last edited by Monk; 03-20-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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  #44  
Unread 03-20-2012, 12:13 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

Lets start with the carve up of Africa by countries started with the "Berlin Conference", Bismarck was involved, please note this started on 15th November 1884, link below, note date under "Bismarck's Role":-

http://courses.wcupa.edu/jones/his31...s/ber-cong.htm

At Berlin, by accurate astronomy at sunrise, Sirius was setting on 15th Nov.1884, graph on link:-

http://2012forum.com/forum/download/...3983&mode=view

Just getting started, long way to go! I'll start a new thread on the mundane astrology section.

Last edited by Monk; 03-21-2012 at 09:58 AM.
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  #45  
Unread 03-20-2012, 02:53 PM
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MSO ~ I didn't call you stupid.
It's YOU who has been tossing out the "stupid" word, along with "simpleminded."
No, I don't think you are stupid. I just think you're naive, uninformed and resistant to historical facts and truths.
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  #46  
Unread 03-20-2012, 03:00 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

Oh, and p.s. ~ The original Star Trek episodes are what I'm talking about ~ the Borgs and the concept of being "of the body."
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  #47  
Unread 03-20-2012, 05:39 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

Zonark, people can make fun of my beliefs all they want. But it just staggers me to see people claim to have "the truth" when their evidence just doesn't hold up. I mean, you are the guy who claimed to have "widely known" evidence about the Rothschilds! When I looked into it, it just isn't there. Mightn't there be a chance you could be mistaken on other matters?

Yes, people are spying on you. But it isn't the US government unless you've engaged in politically questionable (to them) activities (like buddying-up with the Taliban); and even then, they don't act on their information very often.

Google is for sure spying on you, especially if you have a gmail account, post on youtube, order google books, or use Google as your search engine. Are you on Facebook? Any hacker can find out a lot about people on Facebook. And have you heard the latest on drones the size of humming birds that private enterprises would love to have circling over your head?

The irony with the US government controlling your life, of course, is that most of the earth's 7 billion people do not live in the US. And that China, North Korea, and probably Russia spy on US "secret" government information through computer hacking. So your data is now, as I write, being digested in some office in Beijing.

I think people who love conspiracy theories should read more spy thrillers. They are much better written and make more compelling fiction.
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  #48  
Unread 03-20-2012, 06:28 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

they only watch and listen if you're "buddied up with the Taliban"
yep ~ that's exactly what Randy Weaver and David Koresh and Brandon Mayfield did...something
"politically questionable to them" (u.s. gov't)
Thank God we got that one cleared up, 'cause for a moment there, I thought we were talking about U.S. constitutional rights to privacy and belief and religion and freedom of speech, stuff like that.
whew!

Last edited by MaeMae; 03-20-2012 at 06:33 PM.
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  #49  
Unread 03-20-2012, 07:25 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

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Can you answer that, Ixaee? Can you hold accountable the ones in control of this technology or is that capacity beyond your legal rights? Is it beyond your own expertise as well? Why are you okay with that?
Zonark; I am okay with that because I know that I am not involved in anything outlandish. I have more interest in the philosophical, moral side of my own life than in fighting wars against the "Illuminati" for truth.... they can spy on me all they like.

Im not here to start wars or change the world. Im here so that I may learn from the world.. life is very subtle to me, not an external or physical thing... so perhaps you and I will never see eye-to-eye on this topic.

If anything, the government (and even religion) is a very beneficial thing to the masses of people in the world, as a whole. Surely you have seen chaos erupt when others feel nothing is holding them back? (Think Hurricane Katrina)

Even a simple fear that someone is watching over their shoulder will keep many people grounded..

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Keeping track of people naturally makes you want to keep track of them more often and that becomes easier to do when their behaviors are more predictable. It becomes even easier to do when you have an 'acceptable' pattern of behavior which you intend everyone to keep in line with, since it is easier to record deviations from this set line.
What such a line is that?

I agree with WayBread on the fact that government agencies do not interfere into the lives of others unless they are involved in something quite questionable. Have you any idea how time-consuming and financially irresponsible it would be to "monitor" billions of people every second of the day -- just because? Even with such technology linked by the OP, it wouldnt be an easy thing to pull off.. and actually, it is also pointless.

What are you involved in? Its one thing to be involved in the occult fields, its another thing to be plotting to assassinate the president or invade the White House. Many conspirators do reach a mental breaking point and begin acting on an aggressive impulse to restore "truth"... so, I whole-heartedly agree with their attempts to monitor those types of minds more.

We should learn to work with the laws which have been setup in this world, and not against them to our own destruction. When you are doing the right thing (even when no one is watching), there is nothing to fret about..

Last edited by Ixaee; 03-20-2012 at 07:27 PM.
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Unread 03-20-2012, 07:46 PM
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Re: How we will all be spied upon by CIA and others

There's an old saying: "Paranoia's just good sense when everybody's out to get you."
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