The First U S Shutdown In 17 years Is Imminent On 1 October 2013

AquarianEssence said:

It must be a typo. I don't have her book but here is her pdf mentioning this family and she gives the correct year. www.bernadettebrady.com/Pdfs/SarosCycles.pdf I like her work but I wish she would follow the naming pattern of NASA. We don't need anything more to act as a division between astronomy and astrology.
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I don't think it was typo error from the book. My boyfriend had asked her about the accuracy of Birth for solar eclipse in particularly and she admitted it will always be error as the complexity of rectificating solar eclipse birth data is not so simple. But then is far beyond my knowledge just saying that's what I heard. You could actually send email to Brady she most likely will reply if related to her book which she did for my boyfriend previously.

I go home to check the page for you.

Marinka can you post the version of USA chart that you used? There are many people using different charts that actually is the main reason putting me off learning mundane half the time cause I don't know which one to use!!!

I guess Scorpio will be the 12th house cusp.

poyi said:

Marinka can you post the version of USA chart that you used? There are many people using different charts that actually is the main reason putting me off learning mundane half the time cause I don't know which one to use!!!

I guess Scorpio will be the 12th house cusp.

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See post #12 in this thread - I have included the USA chart with my markups ...

Marinka said:

See post #12 in this thread - I have included the USA chart with my markups ...

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Let me explore and see what my curiosity and general observation will lead me to.

I am using the version of your USA chart, (But I recasted in with 10 minutes different with your version, see MC as 25 degree 35 minutes that is the closest I could get) which Jupiter returned on 22-23rd July which could be essentially important as the chart ruler returned. I don't have the program to cast the exact Jupiter return chart.

But perhaps other advanced mundane astrologers can tell me if Jupiter Return chart could be a valuable information?

On the day of Jupiter return, ruler of Jupiter, Moon was in Capricorn which is US natal 2nd house. Moon is the natal ruler of the 8th house or debt and other people resources. And Venus was at the critical degree of Leo about to enter Virgo over the natal 9th house oversea connects. Venus is the natal 11th house ruler which is US's allies. On the return day, transit Mars was in Cancer, conjuncted transit Jupiter and Lilith on the natal 7th house, the open enemies. Mars is the natal ruler of 5th the house of Risk and traditional ruler of 12th house, faraway places, and self undoing, asylum seekers.

At this point, I am actually wondering what would the transit Uranus in Aries does when he conjuncts the natal Chiron in the 4th house while transit Pluto would be in the 2nd house for a very long time.

On the 3rd November 2013, Solar eclipse will be at the 11 degrees 16 minutes Scorpio which should be the midpoint of transit North Node/Transit Mercury Rx 7 degrees 26 minutes and Saturn 13 degrees 53 minutes. This solar eclipse will be close to be the antiscion of progressed Mercury Rx at 20 degrees 26 minutes but not exact so not sure how relevant.

The antisicia of Sagittarius is Capricorn, so when Pluto in Capricorn hits the 22 degrees of Capricorn, Pluto will be the antisicia of US natal ascendant.

Poyi, she had the correct year in her pdf so she obviously made a mistake in her book. I think Fred Enspack (sp) at NASA pretty much has this down to a science because now it's a matter of calculation, from the way I understand it. Here is a cached version of this saros series at nasa. [SIZE=-1]http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ja+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
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AquarianEssence said:

Poyi, she had the correct year in her pdf so she obviously made a mistake in her book. I think Fred Enspack (sp) at NASA pretty much has this down to a science because now it's a matter of calculation, from the way I understand it. Here is a cached version of this saros series at nasa. [SIZE=-1]http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ja+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
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If I understand correctly Hybrid Eclipse according to NASA is only 5.6% of all eclipses?

AquarianEssence said:

Poyi, she had the correct year in her pdf so she obviously made a mistake in her book. I think Fred Enspack (sp) at NASA pretty much has this down to a science because now it's a matter of calculation, from the way I understand it. Here is a cached version of this saros series at nasa. [SIZE=-1]http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ja+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
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I got very confused trying to find the birth date of 16 North Solar Eclipse from your PDF. What day did you get from this PDF? I can only find the Lunar Eclipse 16 North on page 15 and 16 of that PDF.

Sorry this is all very alien to me.

On Brady's book page 331,

16 North
Starts: February 15, 1599 o.s., 1:50:18 GMT North Pole
Ends: March 25, 2843

Planets Sun and Moon 6 degrees 02 Pisces
Venus 4 degrees 26 Pisces
Mercury Rx 2 degrees 52 Pisces
Mars 16 degrees 48 Aquarius
Jupiter Rx 10 degrees 08 Cancer
Saturn Rx 15 degrees 35 Libra
Uranus 24 degrees 24 Aries
Neptune Rx 24 degrees 05 Leo
Pluto 20 degrees 27 Aries
North node 17 degrees 54 Aquarius

Aspects: Uranus forms a trine to Neptune and Venus is on the midpoint of the New Moon/Mercury. Uranus trine Neptune, Venus= New Mon/Mercury

As I mentioned, she has the correct year in the pdf. But she doesn't list the month and day for that eclipse in the pdf, just the year for 16 North. She is using it as an example for another purpose than to interpret the eclipse. If she is doing her own calculations (certainly over my head) then she calculated wrong and I can't imagine why she would do all that work when the data given by Fred Espenak, is already tested and proven true. I don't understand why she'd say she has to rectify the charts unless she doesn't understand the math behind it. What makes the math complicated is including the perturbations, but it can be done if you get the correct data and understand the math. I suspect what happened is she was looking at the lunar eclipse that repeated this past spring, nasa saros series 117. In her process of interpreting the series, she may look at the central eclipse of the totality period, which for Lunar Saros 117 (I think she is calling it 2 Old North) just happens to be a total Lunar eclipse Feb. 10, 1599. Then she mixed up her SS, dates and times when writing the book, listing data from more than one eclipse and putting it under the wrong one. Believe me it can happen even when just looking at one saros series at a time. But, she may be looking at the Lunar eclipse that happens 6 months prior because many believe that full moon shows what the Solar eclipse 6 months latter is revealing. This is because they are within the same axis. The eclipse in May was in Taurus/Scorpio and this November Solar eclipse is in Scorpio.

This reminds me, I recall that period last spring. Because of fiscal cliff debate, many tax forms got changed causing many people to either not be able to file, file the wrong forms or regardless, be left waiting a long time for their refund. I read that one lady had her car repossessed because of it, even though she filed very early. Some were sent to collections because they couldn't pay their tax preparers fees, since they counted on the refund to pay them. Some went to those quick cash places and ended up paying steep interest while they waited for the IRS to get their act together. Don't expect them to suddenly change their ways as they debate the budget once again. Here are the two eclipses side by side. See Mercury, same degree as nodes (expect a loss) ruling the tax sector in the coming eclipse, ruling the ascendant last spring. Also notice Venus last spring, being square the solstice point of the North node. (difficulty with the law and/or resources available) Saturn was where Mercury and Node are now, with the Solar eclipse. Saturn is now opposing the Lunar eclipse Venus, as well as squaring her solstice point. Not enough money? Congress doesn't want to make the sacrifice through the new taxes on the wealthy? All I can say is don't count on taxes to go smoothly. 2013 tax season has several new changes and there may be changes made to the changes. That is often a theme of Scorpio. The fixed angles could mean a tough road ahead with more stubbornness than we've already seen. Or perhaps it is just a reflection of what we've been hearing from Obama, no room for compromise.

As another deal when down the tubes last night, Moon was approaching the degree of the coming Solar eclipse mother degree. This is also opposite the degree where Uranus and Pluto started their new cycle. Saturn, of course, is already at the degree of that 2013 version. He seems to be showing his nature as a brick wall. I hadn't compared mother charts of the eclipses grouped together or those 6 months apart before but it looks promising so I've attached for your viewing. The first is the coming Lunar and Solar eclipse mother charts. The second is mother of Saros 112 from 6 months prior to the coming solar eclipse mother chart. I always cast eclipse charts for the location and time of greatest eclipse. What jumps out first at me, with the second pair is that both eclipse families started out mutable, adaptable, chageble but the malefics, Saturn and Mars are fixed, stubborn, problems not easily resolved.

AquarianEssence said:

As another deal when down the tubes last night, Moon was approaching the degree of the coming Solar eclipse mother degree. This is also opposite the degree where Uranus and Pluto started their new cycle. Saturn, of course, is already at the degree of that 2013 version. He seems to be showing his nature as a brick wall. I hadn't compared mother charts of the eclipses grouped together or those 6 months apart before but it looks promising so I've attached for your viewing. The first is the coming Lunar and Solar eclipse mother charts. The second is mother of Saros 112 from 6 months prior to the coming solar eclipse mother chart. I always cast eclipse charts for the location and time of greatest eclipse. What jumps out first at me, with the second pair is that both eclipse families started out mutable, adaptable, chageble but the malefics, Saturn and Mars are fixed, stubborn, problems not easily resolved.

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I think this information on eclipses is worth continuing but, I wonder whether this thread is the proper thread for it (IMHO) -- maybe another thread can be generated that focuses only eclipses ...

Well, if we are discussing the astrology of the governement shutdown, then I'd think that transits and how they tie into events connected to it, as well as eclipses, new and full moons or any other astrological point in time would be part of that. But, I can delete my comments if you like, and if it is allowed and if it won't leave a void where the comment was.

AquarianEssence said:

Well, if we are discussing the astrology of the governement shutdown, then I'd think that transits and how they tie into events connected to it, as well as eclipses, new and full moons or any other astrological point in time would be part of that. But, I can delete my comments if you like, and if it is allowed and if it won't leave a void where the comment was.

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No, don't delete comments - I'm just not seeing where this is tied into the USA government chart (what planet, MC or ASC is the eclipse on Nov 3rd touching) to what is happening now - can you enlighten me?

Marinka said:

No, don't delete comments - I'm just not seeing where this is tied into the USA government chart (what planet, MC or ASC is the eclipse on Nov 3rd touching) to what is happening now - can you enlighten me?

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Well, you may have to look beneath the surface or consider a couple of degrees difference, which is valid. Here's a few connections I see, US=Solar eclipse:

Venus/sunrise MC=eclipse lights (opposite)
Saturn/Uranus=eclipse very near exact square
Venus/Neptune=eclipse
sunrise Moon=antiscion eclipse
Venus/Uranus=mother eclipse POF and asc (square), lights close too.
Sun/asc sunrise=mother eclipse antiscion (square) Or if you prefer the Sibley chart, Sun is still square the solstice point of the mother eclipse.

Sibley Moon/Vtx=eclipse (opposite)
Uranus/Chiron=eclipse, opp. less than 4° (rebellion over healthcare)
Saturn/Sibley Asc=eclipse conjunct less than 3°
Sibley Moon/Pluto=eclipse (square)
Sibley MC=mother eclipse Neptune Rx
Sibley Mercury=mother Venus & Jupiter

There are more but this is enough to make my point and I didn't bother looking at the progressions or solar return. I don't consider most of these small connections. But you don't have to prove before hand that an event is connected to the eclipse, based on whether or not that eclipse already has proven contact with the country's natal chart. The transit and event shows the event is connected to the eclipse. For all we know, it could be connected to Obama or one of the other key player's charts or even the sysnestry between players. It still affects our country and is still related to the eclipse by transiting degree.

AquarianEssence said:

Well, you may have to look beneath the surface or consider a couple of degrees difference, which is valid. Here's a few connections I see, US=Solare eclipse:

Venus/sunrise MC=eclipse lights (opposite)
Saturn/Uranus=eclipse very near exact square
Venus/Neptune=eclipse
sunrise Moon=antiscion eclipse
Venus/Uranus=mother eclipse POF and asc (square), lights close too.
Sun/asc sunrise=mother eclipse antiscion (square) Or if you prefer the Sibley chart, Sun is still square the solstice point of the mother eclipse.

Sibley Moon/Vtx=eclipse (opposite)
Uranus/Chiron=eclipse, opp. less than 4° (rebellion over healthcare)
Saturn/Sibley Asc=eclipse conjunct less than 3°
Sibley Moon/Pluto=eclipse (square)
Sibley MC=mother eclipse Neptune Rx
Sibley Mercury=mother Venus & Jupiter

There are more but this is enough to make my point and I didn't bother looking at the progressions or solar return. I don't consider most of these small connections. But you don't have to prove before hand that an event is connected to the eclipse, based on whether or not that eclipse already has proven contact with the country's natal chart. The transit and event shows the event is connected to the eclipse. For all we know, it could be connected to Obama or one of the other key player's charts or even the sysnestry between players. It still affects our country and is still related to the eclipse by transiting degree.

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These appear to be all midpoints, are there any direct connections to a planet? The reason that I ask is simply because most of the literature that I am familiar with tends to concentrate on conjunctions and oppositions and keeps a very tight orb.

No, Marinka, they are not all midpoints but even if they are, you don't think they are important connections? I had a few repeated events that I would describe as very unexpected and tyrannical. I couldn't figure out how they were connected to me because of the degree that kept showing up. Upon closer look I saw a midpoint picture than involved my Uranus/Pluto, perfectly fitting the events. But, you missed my point. Why do you believe we have to prove an eclipse is related to a country's natal chart to show that an event is related to a transit that is connected to an eclipse family? I don't see that it has to be connected to both at the same time. Also, you seem to be implying that our natal chart is the only player here, leaving out the people that are running the country. Obama has several close contacts, including his Sun square. I would include his Neptune too.

AquarianEssence said:

No, Marinka, they are not all midpoints but even if they are, you don't think they are important connections? I had a few repeated events that I would describe as very unexpected and tyrannical. I couldn't figure out how they were connected to me because of the degree that kept showing up. Upon closer look I saw a midpoint picture than involved my Uranus/Pluto, perfectly fitting the events. But, you missed my point. Why do you believe we have to prove an eclipse is related to a country's natal chart to show that an event is related to a transit that is connected to an eclipse family? I don't see that it has to be connected to both at the same time. Also, you seem to be implying that our natal chart is the only player here, leaving out the people that are running the country. Obama has several close contacts, including his Sun square. I would include his Neptune too.

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I consider midpoints only if there are other angles (from transits, progressions, solar arcs) that indicate some activation occurring in the chart. In this case, I'm not seeing a major activation on one of the planets or the MC/ASC in the US chart. Although, I could be wrong and that's why I have been asking where is the tight aspect to a point in the USA chart.

An activation to a planet degree or MC/ASC in Obama's chart or any other major player in the Congress would provide some basis for saying the eclipse is going to impact the country and having a point of activation would specify how the impact will be felt. So that would be verifiable. It would be interesting to see if there is a chart for the Tea Party and it could be that the eclipse will be playing havoc there on Nov 3rd.

If an eclipse is happening and there are no points being activated in the US chart, then I would expect the impact to be minimal/generic and would be a secondary effect rather than a primary impact. For example, this eclipse will be hitting some points in Japan's chart and if it triggers some event, then the US would have a secondary impact, not the primary.

Please note that I find this conversation interesting on eclipses and that's why I'm coming back on it.

There's a good chance an agreement will be completed by 9 or so tonight, before Moon moves into Aries. Moon's final aspect was a trine to Jupiter from Pisces. The plan was given to the House after this final aspect, I believe, so this will be a good example of Moon operating while void but in a sign ruled by Jupiter. They are also in mutual reception. I notice that Jupiter is at the same degree as the ascendant and POF in the mother eclipse of Solar Saros 143. The new date to watch is January 15, 2014 when Sun will trigger the lunar eclipse happening in a couple of days, being square. It is the day of the full Moon. This isn't over.

ETA: Besides what I've already listed, the Lunar eclipse Mars opposite Neptune is on the Sibley progressed (Oct. 1) ascendant and descendant. Solar eclipse Neptune is still there on that descendant. Progressed MC is square Lunar eclipse POF too. Solar arc Mercury ties back to the Solar eclipse mother chart. He ruled the 3rd and 7th, negotiations and compromise when there is direct opposition.

In the Syria thread. I had mentioned we should all look at Obama's natal, progressed and solar especially when we argue about which US natal chart to use. My boyfriend said you can even use your own natal to predict for the country particularly Obama as the key player. The way he thinks and speaks representing the country and several other main goverenors for sure. They are the backbones and head of the governments and country.

Marinka said:

Oct 15 chart -- Note Debt ceiling in 2 days

- Trans Sat at 11 Scorpio moving to trine the Sun at 13 cancer. This is a potent configuration and looks like there will be a move forward past differences but, hard to know for how long that would be as suggestions from chart suggest only a pushback until end of year
- Venus has moved over the 1st and a deal has already been announced or should be soon
- Moon approaching the 4th (house of endings) so this is likely coming to a close
- Mars at 29 Leo - Very little power left for the Mars which would be the opposition element and it will be seeking some practical accomplishments. Grandstanding will hopefully be ending or on the wan and business should start getting taken care of.

Note, I didn't look at every day which is typically what I do when I studying mundane events to make sure I account for all angles and leave very little to chance. In this case, I picked a logical conclusion and that appeared to be with the Venus moving over 1st.

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Also see post # 12 which has the data for October 1st

Above points with IMO conclusions --
- we are likely to have a pushback to January (proposed)
- When Venus crossed asc, Senate started working the bill and this is the one that will be voted on
- Mars in Virgo, the tea party is getting deflated but, could still take a few days
- Moon crossed the 4th house today at about 1:15 and at that time the bill was completed by the Senate with voting to follow.

I have attached an updated chart for today with the 1:15 pm transits --
- moon crossing 4th which is end of matters but, the final bill may not be approved for a few days .. might be when moon passes 5th, or makes angle to Mars (ruler of 5th), or when we have a conjunction to Chiron which is the ruler of 10th (president) - that is about 2 to 3 days away.
- Transiting Sun is moving to complete a trine to natal Moon which will be done on October 19/20th. This could be supporting for the bill finally being signed in a few days even though it may be a given that it is going to get signed.
- Saturn is still moving to a trine to the Sun and completes on October 29th. This was the major angle for this period and suggested that in the end, hard work and major effort would get this through (trine angle) but, as with Saturn, it would not be easy.