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  #1  
Unread 08-11-2014, 07:32 PM
fastlane69 fastlane69 is offline
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8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

I am hoping someone can help me with this. If anyone has experience delineating the quindecile aspect, please offer your opinion as to what all this means.
I have a total of 8 quindecile aspects in my natal chart. I will attach a copy of my natal chart as a reference, and list all the quindecile aspects that my software found.
Venus Quindecile Uranus, Saturn Quindecile Mars, Saturn Quindecile Uranus, Mercury Quindecile Uranus, Jupiter Quindecile Pluto, Jupiter Quindecile Midheaven, Sun Quindecile Midheaven, Sun Quindecile Pluto. All are within the allowed orb for this aspect.
I know this aspect represents obsession/compulsion, but with this many I don't understand all the ramifications. Any help would be appreciated.


Last edited by fastlane69; 08-12-2014 at 06:09 AM.
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Unread 08-11-2014, 08:31 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Hi. I would keep to orbs of one degree for this aspect. The Saturn Mars quindecile seems to have an orb of one degree 34 minutes.

This aspect series is based on multiples of 15 degrees, which means that factors which make these aspects are attuned to one another in the 24th harmonic (360 / 15 = 24). So these aspects show up as sextiles in the 4th harmonic chart, or as squares in the 6th harmonic chart. Whichever chart you use to look at them, many astrologers feel that it is only worth considering them if they form a strong configuration in one of these charts - for example, a grand cross or t square in the 6th harmonic chart; or a kite or mystic rectangle, etc in the 4th harmonic chart.

Because the number 24 is comprised of 3 as well as 2 (24 = 2 x 2 x 2 x 3) is blends the qualities of hard and soft aspects. The basic aspect which does this is the sextile (6 = 2 x 3). The quindecile has a couple more 2s thrown in, so yes we could expect it to express more forcefully. But we would also expect it to express very subtly and unconsciously because it is based on a relatively high number.

I would look mainly at the aspects in your list which involve a personal planet, especially those which are within half a degree of being exact. And then you could look to see what happens (internally and/or externally) when a transiting outer planet next aspects the two planets concerned by quindecile aspects.

Something worth noting is that Uranus is quindecile both Mercury and Venus, which are semisextile one another. Furthermore, Uranus is exactly opposite the Mercury/Venus midpoint. This would show up as a configuration on the 4th harmonic chart, whereby Mercury would be trine Venus, and Uranus would be sextile both Mercury and Venus. So this grouping of planets may be worth keeping in mind when interpreting your chart and looking at how transits and progressions trigger it. Each time a planet makes a traditional aspect to Mercury and Venus it also aspects Uranus by a quindecile aspect, and each time a planet aspects Uranus by a traditional aspect, it also makes a quindecile aspect to Mercury and Venus. But as is mentioned above, the effects of the configuration may be subtle. Hard aspects (opposition, square, semisquare, sesquiquadrate), and also conjunctions, to Uranus may be the most significant, because these are also hard aspects to the Mercury/Venus midpoint.

The similar instance involving Mars, Saturn and Uranus involves much wider orbs, and the semisextile between Mars and Uranus is also out of orb.

The Sun Pluto aspect seems to be well over 2 degrees from exact. The software may be using very wide orbs, which is perhaps why you ended up with 8 quindecile aspects.
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Unread 08-11-2014, 09:37 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Thank you for your reply. Noel Tyl recommends an orb of 2 to 2.5 degrees for this aspect. http://www.noeltyl.com/techniques/990801.html
All of mine are under 2 degress except for Sun/Pluto the widest at 2 degrees, 29 minutes. However, with Pluto sitting almost exact on my midheaven I believe it to be relevant.

Last edited by fastlane69; 08-11-2014 at 09:38 PM. Reason: sic
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Unread 08-11-2014, 10:46 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Wow that seems like a massive orb. Of course most of the 24th harmonic series of aspects are already given other names - in fact all of the traditional aspects and also the semisquare and sesquiquadrate aspects are all multiples of 15 degrees. That leaves 15, 75, 105 & 165 degrees, though I have a feeling that Tyl may only consider the 165 degree angle. I think he may have decided it has a particular significance that 15, 75 and 105 don't, which is like saying a biquintle is more significant than a quintile - very strange.
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Unread 08-11-2014, 10:57 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Yes, Tyl considers the 165 degree aspect to be of importance as opposed to the other multiples. One of his students, Ricki Reeves has written a book on the subject. I should probably go ahead and pick it up. If I could afford the fee, I would have Tyl himself do a consultation for me. I believe it to be of that much importance in my chart. In the future I probably will, but at this time that is not an option which is why I am here. I tried to do research myself on this over the internet, but have not found the definitive answers that I was looking for.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 12:13 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

I’m with miquar on the likely lack of available justification for paying attention to the 165 while ignoring its sister aspects (the 105 and 75) as well, especially as the parent aspect of this 24-denominatored family (the 15). Like she said, it would be like saying the biquintile is special, while ignoring the quintile (a stance for which I have seen no support in observation of familiars’ charts for any denominatored-grouping of aspects up through 20).
Mr. Tyl also seems to have gone through the roof with his orb allowance which violates the absolute need to avoid overlap with other aspects (so, e.g., using your stated orb-recommendation a 75 degree aspect would infringe upon the quintile’s territory, the 15 degree aspect would infringe upon the semi-decile’s territory, the 165 would infringe upon the semi-decile’s 162-degreed family member and so forth).
In sum, I suspect you will find no justification in any of your own logic, the net or your observations of familiars’ charts for granting these 24-denominatored aspects a wider orb allowance than any aspect bearing a lower denominator. Along these lines, afaik (without having studied this particular minor), all harmonically-oriented astrologers will only give the 24-denominatored aspects a 30 min orb which, in turn, allows the 12-denominatored aspectcs to enjoy a one degree orb and, likewise, the sextile a mere 2 degrees (your chart has no sextiles but if it did, you would be kicking and screaming to let go of astro self-labelling with them because of this 2 degree cut off).
Applying such principle (and you have to unless having solid ?logic not to because otherwise you are, in fact, calling an apple an orange), your chart’s listed-up stockpile of quindecile’s dwindles down to the 2 identified by miquar, composing the mentioned 165-30-165 config.
Although those two 165’s are super-tight orbed (0 and 9 min) and, so, surely part of your makeup, two other personal-planet-participating aspects are similarly tight (Sun tri-septile Uran and Mars semi-novile Nept) and Moon septile Nept is only a tad looser (while Ven 90 Nept and Merc 120 Nept also contributes to what you describe no matter their looser orbs). So don’t go astro-self-labelling all of your mentioned issues to that quindecile-Yod config.
Instead, try to isolate the influence by listing all aspects made to Merc and Ven (most notably the 11 min tight orbed semi-sextile) and only then try to isolate the feeling that may be the quindecile. For example, that Merc-Ven base might normally confer a pleasing voice while the Uran quindeciles might overwhelm that influence into scratchiness (is your voice silky or raspy?) and, etc.
Hope you'll be able to teach us about this aspect (from your own-self-observations, not net reading...

Last edited by Krewster; 08-12-2014 at 12:17 AM.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 02:13 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Well that sure cleared things up for me Krewster. Thanks for your input.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 02:41 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

I did not come here to teach, Krewster. I came here to learn. That should be apparent by my post. I do not wish to get into a technical discussion about the orb allowance. Noel Tyl is far more educated in these matters than I, and both he and his student have written books on this particular matter. I didn't just pull this information off of the internet per se, but rather from excerpts from both his and Ricki Reeves writings. Tyl is a very well respected astrologer, and you admit that you don't know much if anything about this particular aspect. If you don't have anything constructive to add, could you please kindly keep your opinions to yourself?
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Unread 08-12-2014, 05:54 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Hi fastlane69. What Krewster has posted is probably the consensus view amongst astrologers who use higher harmonic aspects. From what I know of Tyl, it is not impossible that he would get carried away with a disproportionate treatment of one particular aspect in order to stand out as an astrologer. He may be respected by some people, but many take his views with a pinch of salt. I'm not sure why you are bothered by Krewster's informative post since you say that you are here to learn. But then again its human nature to defend what we think we know rather than face the vulnerability of ongoing open-mindedness.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 06:06 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Tyl has an education from Harvard, and has published over 30 books. And you say to take him with a pinch of salt. That's funny.
I didn't come here to argue. Now I remember why I haven't been here in months. I came here to see if anyone had any information on quindeciles. Now I can see that no one does.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 09:03 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Ok. See you in a few months then.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 09:21 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

I'm actually not convinced that harmonic charts and quindeciles are even worth paying attention to.

The view presented here, that they would have a small orb, is only among those astrologers that use them. Plenty of astrologers don't consider these aspects at all.

They are actually newly invented... no one considered them to be an aspect until very recently.

I would say it's better not to worry about them. Probably best to stick with trines, sextiles, squares, and oppositions.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 01:25 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

I don't use higher harmonic aspects in normal practise, because one can generate so much detail that interpretation becomes impossible. Many other astrologers probably take a similar view, which is different to saying that these aspects are not valid. All aspects are based on harmonics - probably all astrology. Why would we draw a stark line between those which are valid and those which are not. And as for the notion that they are newly invented, it would be more accurate to say that they are newly discovered, like atoms and bacteria. Humanity is more sophisticated than it used to be in all sorts of ways, and astrology must reflect this to remain relevant.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 05:17 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
I'm actually not convinced that harmonic charts and quindeciles are even worth paying attention to.

The view presented here, that they would have a small orb, is only among those astrologers that use them. Plenty of astrologers don't consider these aspects at all.

They are actually newly invented... no one considered them to be an aspect until very recently.

I would say it's better not to worry about them. Probably best to stick with trines, sextiles, squares, and oppositions.
Yes, better to stick with horse and buggy rather than those evil planes, trains and automobiles. Let's stop using fire while we're at it. In fact, let's all just wonder around aimlessly looking for fruits and vegetables. It's safer that way. And just who are you to say you are not convinced? What research have you done? What books have you written? What lectures have you given?
I am looking for subtle things in my personal natal chart - things that are not explained by the major aspects. So, how do you explain when these minor aspects describe certain parts of my life perfectly? You can't, because you are close-minded. That's cool, I've found my own answers before, and I'll do it again.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 08:42 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlane69 View Post
That's cool, I've found my own answers before, and I'll do it again.
If that's your attitude, then please keep doing that.

Given that mentality, you shouldn't ask other people their opinions in the first place. No one deserves to be spoken to the way you speak to people.

You have every right to disagree with people's interpretations/answers, even to think it's BS or old-fashioned, but that doesn't mean you have a right to attack people.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 08:56 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

If you would have read and understood my OP, then you would plainly see that I asked for input on the delineations - not a discussion of whether this aspect was even valid or what the appropriate orbs should be.
Also, trust me...I have not attacked anyone up to this point. If you are that thin-skinned to see my response as an attack, then I don't know what to tell you.
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Unread 08-12-2014, 10:22 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Fastlane, I also find your manner unnecessarily abrupt and aggressive.
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Unread 08-13-2014, 12:20 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

fastlane69, your Merc suffers no aspectual challenges (even up through the 11 denominators of minor aspects I regularly use) but, rather, only supportive aspects);

and then there's its 9 min-tight 165 to Uran...

So perhaps your posts are teaching by illustration.

(and thank you for reminding me of one of the reasons I have not yet broached the 24th denominator: bec my prejudices make me want to believe cutting a supportive aspect -the 120- in half and again and again and again will not change the core influence while, more realistically, such irregular results are just what the 12th denominator poses (with the 30 vs. 150) and so why would I assume any different for the 24th.

and sorry to suggest that your own astro-self-labeling decisions will not work for you (that's not what I really believe since I have found such labeling to remain a work-in-progress through the decades).

Last edited by Krewster; 08-13-2014 at 12:22 AM.
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Unread 08-13-2014, 05:36 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Ok....my apologies if I have been perceived as rude and aggressive. I have been under extreme stress, so once again I say sorry.
Let's try this again....
Let's assume that an orb of one degree is all that is allowed....this is what I still have left in a less than one degree orb:
Venus Quindecile Uranus (0 deg 1 min S)
Mercury Quindecile Uranus (0 deg 10 min A)
Jupiter Quindecile Pluto (0 deg 44 min S)
Jupiter Quindecile MH (0 deg 40 min S)
Sun Quindecile MH (1 deg 5 min A)
I understand that the Jupiter/Pluto aspect affects quite a few people around my time of birth, and is such may not be quite as personal, but Jupiter is a very strong planet in my chart as is Pluto.
That still leaves 4 of these things in fairly tight orbs. Also keep in mind I am looking at the more subtle influences from my natal chart to get to the bottom of some of my problems/negative behavior patterns. I am also looking at quite a few other things such as Chiron sitting at 11 PI 35.
So once again, if any one could explain about the Quindeciles....
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Unread 08-13-2014, 05:40 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Once again here is my natal.
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Unread 08-13-2014, 11:46 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Hi Fastlane. I know you are just asking about the quindeciles, but it feels necessary to say a few things to put things into context - for people in general reading the thread also.

To clarify comments made about the quindecile series of aspect, firstly, I'm not sure exactly what the word quindecile refers to. Is it specifically the 165 degree aspect, of does it also refer to the other multiples of 15 degrees? (most of which, of course come under other more fundamental harmonics, such as 8 x 15 which is the trine.) I recall that when a friend told me that she had read a book by Tyl in which he suggests that the 165 degree aspect is signifiant, the name that she said Tyl had given the aspect was a longer, Spanish-sounding word.

As for the differences between the 165 degree and, say, 75 degrees, we can expect there to be some differences, just as we see differences between the semisextile and the quincunx - both of which have the 30 degree span as their highest factor, and which are therefore primarily 12th harmonic aspects. So it is a question of where the aspect occurs in relation to the cycle of aspects as a whole, which is usually taken as beginning and ending at the conjunction. Certainly, the quincunx receives more attention than the semisextile, and this may be because the former is closer to the opposition stage of the cycle, while the latter is closer to the conjunction - thus with the quincunx there may be more of a sense of two functions in relation to one another, while with the semisextile there may be less awareness of the relationship. With this in mind, there may be some basis for Tyl's suggestion that the 165 aspect stands out amidst those 15 degree aspects which are not accounted for by more fundamental harmonics. So apologies for the dismissal of this idea in a previous post on this thread. Still, we would expect the other multiples to be significant, too - the 105 degree aspect is closer to the opposition than the square, for example.

And it is worth briefly noting that waxing and waning aspects are different in meaning in some ways. So there is a waxing 165 degree aspect and a waning 165 degree aspect.

Another point that is worth noting is that when we venture beyond the traditional aspects in order to fine tune our interpetations, there is a mass of data available. Other higher harmonic aspects, midpoints and lunation phase are all as worthy of attention as the 165 degree aspect. Its easy to attribute a character trait to a relatively insignificant feature of the natal chart, when in fact there is a more significant feature which accounts for the trait. This especially a danger when large orbs are used - for any aspect, even a conjunction or opposition.

As for the 165 degree aspect itself, the only way I know to interpret it is to consider the numbers of which its harmonic is a product. This is a 24th harmonic aspect so we can see it as the product of 8 and 3, or a product of 4 and 6. In the former case, it is the product of a sesquiquadrate and a trine, and in the latter case, it is the product of a square and a sextile. The first way of looking at it is probably clearer because it keeps the 2s separate from the 3s.

The sesquiquadrate is more 'automatic' than the square in the way it expresses. The tension inherent in the energies flows more readily - there is less of a tendency to resist. The square is just one step away from the opposition, which can manifest as a stalemate. With the square, there is more of a sense of urgency around using the energies together, but the potential for things to stall is still there. And then with the sesquiquadrate (and also the semisquare - the other 8th harmonic aspect), things manifest without so much interference from the native's conscious deliberations.

The trine is the aspect of innate understanding of how two principles work together. So we would expect the 24th harmonic to represent the an innate understanding of the processes of manifestation. I'm not sure what we would actually do with such understanding, though. Where 2 meets 3 in the sextile aspect, it is clear that although two-ness brings the potential for manifestation, it also brings the potential for polarisation, and so when we bring in three-ness we have an understanding of how to get into a steady rhythm of manifestation. But where 8 meets 3 in the 165 degree aspect, the process of manifestation has more of a 'life of its own' and its not obvious to me how the insight of three-ness would improve this process.

When we consider the aspect cycle, we see that the opposition is the point at which the two factors are attuned to one another in such a way that the relationship between self and other becomes more apparent. We might expect the waxing 165 degree aspect to bring awareness of how one is manifesting as an individual in final preparation for participation in a world of 'others', and the waning 165 degree aspect to bring awareness of how one is beginning to manifest one's social ideals.

In any case, when looking at aspects and configurations, the important thing is the natures of the factors involved. Venus Mercury Uranus is always Venus Mercury Uranus - its the same combination of functions. What changes is the harmonic frequency on which they are attuned to one another. In the 6th harmonic chart, these three planets would probably form a tight T square. So we can interpret it as a T square, but then keep in mind that we are working in the 6th harmonic. Similarly, we could look at the configuration in a 3rd, 4th or 8th harmonic chart.

So perhaps the Mercury Venus Uranus configuration in your chart is about having insight (3) into the way in which visions of truth and humanitarian concerns (Uranus) can find purposeful expression (8) through the way you connect with (Mercury and Venus, and the fact that we are discussing 165 aspects, rather than, say, 105 or 75). Or to try to put it into a less contrived sentence, perhaps when you connect with others, it is like you are conducting Uranian energy, which potential awakens both you and the other to some truth, with this possibly happening at a very subtle level which isn't necessarily obvious. I would encourage you to look at transits to the points I mentioned in a previous post on this thread, because these are times when you are more likely to see obvious expressions of this configuration.
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Unread 08-13-2014, 08:58 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Thank you miquar, I think I pretty much understand what you just said. That actually makes sense to me.
Yes Tyl, was speaking specifically about the 165 aspect. He said the 105 aspect was the only multiple of 15 not covered by other aspects along with the 165. Through research he found the 105 aspect to not yield any weight so to speak, but the 165 aspect he says at least was different. I suppose he should have called it something different other the "quindecile" since that literally translates to 15 from what I understand. Confusing. But when I talk of the quindecile, I am referring specifically to the 165. Tyl states that he has researched 900 - 1000 case studies of this aspect and found it to carry weight in the charts whose natives contain it. He also states that it is a fairly common aspect, occurring in about 85% of all charts. However, multiples are fairly rare from what I have read, which is why I was inquiring about mine. His orb is a little loose I suppose, but whether I have 5 or 8, it is still uncommon.
Specifically, what I am trying to deal with in life at this time are the negative sides of my obsessions and compulsions. I would like to get rid or at least understand why they occur, and keep the good OC behaviors that I have if there is such a thing. Chiron transited my IC last year, and is approaching conjunction with natal Mercury in the next month or so, of which I have a natal configuration with these two. Maybe this is why I have healing on my mind at this time. Big psychological changes going on with me along with Saturn's transit through the 12th at this time.
So I will read and re-read your previous post and see what I can understand from it. I will watch for the transits as you have suggested. I'm in my 50's now, and I need to start getting this stuff right. I'm running out of time.
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Unread 08-13-2014, 09:13 PM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Hi. Thanks for your reply. I don't think that the 15 or 75 degree aspects are part of any more fundamental aspect families. But anyway...

I would have thought that Pluto culminating in Virgo is relevant to your OC issues, and also the Scorpio rising. Earth in general is prone to control issues, and you also have Moon in Capricorn. The Moon can expresses as compulsive instinctual responses.

The fact that you are very Piscean may also be significant. Some of your OC behaviour may be related to a need to keep order (earth) while some of it may be related to a need to maintain a connection with source (water). There may even be a tension between the two types of need, whereby Pisces yearns for an experience of something beyond the world of form, while Virgo/Capricorn is resisting acknowledging anything which threatens its order.

Powerful issues are usually shown by the most fundamental features of the chart, and may or may not also be echoed in more subtle ways through things like higher harmonic aspects.
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  #24  
Unread 08-14-2014, 12:06 AM
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Researching 1,000-ish charts to suss-out a meaning from any minor aspect is not as impressive as you may think because the process of shooting in the dark for meaning/influence requires:
-charts where the aspect enjoys relative isolation from overlapping influences of a nature generally similar (e.g., good vs. bad) to the nature you are guestimating may prove correlative to demonstrable behavior/experience; and
-aspects not involving planets already similarly-keyworded as your guestimate of the influence (so, e.g., Uranian quindeciles might be obsessive/compulsive simply because Uran is involved rather than because of the core nature of the aspect defined abstractly enough to be applied to any planetary combo).
Ime, only say, 5% of charts having a particular aspect satisfy these conditions; and yours is not one of them (your mentioned keywords could also work for at least your chart’s Sun septile Uran which is surely stronger influenced than your Merc quindecile bec tighter orbed and involving the Sun and being of a lower denominator).
Not saying you can give up your efforts (your Merc and Ven quindeciles are too tight to ignore) but just that your desire to learn instead of teach may be disappointed since how could members accurately distinguish remotely between, e.g., your Sun-Uran aspect and your Merc-Uran aspect when you in your position of direct observation may not yet have done so?

Last edited by Krewster; 08-14-2014 at 12:11 AM.
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fastlane69 (07-15-2018)
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Unread 07-15-2018, 10:09 AM
fastlane69 fastlane69 is offline
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Re: 8 Quindeciles in my natal chart

Just a follow up to a four year old thread....
I am very sorry for my harsh words. I read this and don't even remember this in the least. It's like a different person entirely. Anyway....thank you all for your help even though I could not say that at the time. I have found my own answers. I do believe in extremely tight orbs for minute astrological influences, brought to mind by the teachings of experience in my life with my chart.
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