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Career-related Horary Questions For horary questions related to career, jobs, vocational issues.


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  #1  
Unread 02-06-2012, 06:32 PM
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Arian Maverick Arian Maverick is offline
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How Long Will I Work at New Job?

Hello everyone! It feels strange to be posting again after so many months of inactivity, but it's nice to return to my first online "home," however briefly. I haven't had much time to study astrology during these months, so my knowledge of horary, never expansive to begin with, is rusty. I'm hoping someone may be able to help me interpret this chart.

I recently interviewed for and began a new job. I did not intend it to be permanent, to the extent that any employment can be "permanent" in the present unstable economy, but I am satisfied enough with the responsibilities and work environment that I am considering adjusting my future plans. I even may pursue further training and education in related areas. This is huge for me, since I had struggled throughout my education to choose specific areas of focus.

Before I make these plans, however, I would like to attempt to determine, to the best extent possible, how long I will be employed at this job. My original question was, "Will I work here a long time?" I immediately modified this question to "How long will I work here?" to glean more specific information from the chart. I realized after I recorded the details that there may be undercurrents of "Will I have a bright future here or will I leave to find a better paying job, after I have gained more experience and education?" Of course, these questions are differ in areas of emphasis, and I doubt all three can be contained in one chart. In this case, perhaps the chart is not valid, since I did not articulate my question clearly enough at the time I posed it, or rather, I was uncertain what I was asking.

Upon first glance, though, the chart does not appear any major considerations against judgment--the Ascendant is not at an early or a late degree, the Moon is not void of course, neither Saturn nor Mars are in the tenth house, etc. Since I posed the question, I am signified by Venus in the twelfth. (This is uncontested since Venus is the ruler of Taurus and it appears to be the almuten; it ought to have the most essential dignity at the degree of the Ascendant since this is a day chart and Venus is the triplicity ruler.) Venus is exalted in Pisces, which is great, but it's cadent in the twelfth house of self-undoing and it soon will enter the sign of its detriment, Aries. This makes me nervous.

The job is signified by Mercury in Aquarius in the tenth house, on the cusp of the eleventh, the house of hopes and dreams, among other things. I was encouraged that Mercury was in Aquarius before I realized that Mercury is not the triplicity ruler, since this is not a night chart. I do not believe it is peregrine, however, since it has dignity by face. This is not much consolation in light of the combustion. Why couldn't Mercury be cazimi?

I searched the forum archives for similar charts before I posted my own, but most of the questions inquired if and when the querent would find a job, not how long the querent would stay in a job he or she already had. Alternatively, the querent asked if or when he or she would be fired or let go from a job. Although this question has run through my mind since I began studying the unfavorable conditions of this horary chart, it was not foremost on my mind when I posed the question.

Thank you in advance for any help you may provide with this chart.

Arian Maverick
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  #2  
Unread 02-08-2012, 02:54 AM
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Re: How Long Will I Work at New Job?

I would have taken the 10th ruler as your job, as it seems you are wanting to do some training in this field and possibly have a career in this profession, right? 6th house would be more of a service type work that is just there for paying bills, rather than a career.

So I'd take Saturn to signify your job/career. Saturn is conjunct fortuna, which seems positive, it could mean more money coming to you through this work or that this field is the right one for you. Possibly. But Saturn, even though exalt is about to go Rx.

Venus is also exalt and about to enter the sign of its detriment in 2 degrees. Venus and Saturn don't make a ptolemic aspect, but there is this inconjucnt between them. Are you completely satified with the work? Inconjucnt would mean some adjusting to do here...it seems things are out of whack here, possibly between you and the employer?

The fact that Venus will change signs and conjucnt Uranus, points to a break up of sorts. So it could mean you leaving this job in about 4 months (4 degrees before Venus/Uranus conjunct). I think for the next 2 months you'd feel good working there, but then when Venus enters Aries, things may go downhill and there may be some dissatisfaction. You will choose to leave.

I do think the career within this field may be the right one for you with Saturn conjucnt Fortuna, but possibly not with the current employer.

Mercury and Sun are the secondary significators for the job, although they are close to 11th cusp. Moon will square Jupiter in the 12th and also oppose Mercury/Sun. It seems issues that are 'unseen' at the moment will surface which may make you think twice whether you want this job or not.

Best wishes!
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  #3  
Unread 02-08-2012, 05:04 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: How Long Will I Work at New Job?

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

I'll use the Lot of Dismissal or Resignation (saturn+jupiter-sun) to estimate this:

-LODOR falls @ 15 Capricorn
-querent = 1st house = Taurus = Venus
-Venus around the wheel to conjunction with LODOR = approx. 9 1/2 signs
-since fixed signs are on the pivots, each sign = 1 month
-first estimate = 9/10 months
-co-significator Moon to LODOR = 5 1/2 signs = 5/6 months second estimate
...so, based on the LODOR the time estimate for continuing employment with the same employer is from a minimum of 5 months up to a maximum of 10 months, from the date of this question; indications are that the querent will be the one to decide if employment continues, rather than the employer; IF the querent is still choosing to stay with the current employer after the maximum 10 month period has elapsed, then querent will likely continue to stay and work with the same employer for at least 1 year thereafter.
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  #4  
Unread 02-09-2012, 03:11 AM
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Arian Maverick Arian Maverick is offline
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Re: How Long Will I Work at New Job?

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I would have taken the 10th ruler as your job, as it seems you are wanting to do some training in this field and possibly have a career in this profession, right? 6th house would be more of a service type work that is just there for paying bills, rather than a career.
I consider this job to be more service type work, but one in which I intend to learn as much as possible. It may not lead directly to the kind of career I had envisioned, but certainly, it is in a related field. I believe the sixth house is the correct house to consider because Virgo on the cusp in this chart; Virgo is concerned with matters of health and nutrition. Capricorn on the tenth house cusp with its ruler Saturn in Libra does not seem as apt a description.

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Venus is also exalt and about to enter the sign of its detriment in 2 degrees. Venus and Saturn don't make a ptolemic aspect, but there is this inconjucnt between them. Are you completely satified with the work? Inconjucnt would mean some adjusting to do here...it seems things are out of whack here, possibly between you and the employer?
I am satisfied thus far because the work environment suits my temperament and the company appears to share many of my values. However, I have had to learn and adjust quickly.

If I use Mercury instead of Saturn as the job significator, however, what do I look for? There is no aspect between these two planets, but I believe the next aspect between them will be a conjunction--albeit, after Mercury and then Venus goes retrograde. What should I make of this? I initially had planned to time the duration of the job by measuring how long an aspect between the planets will take to perfect in an ephemeris, but a conjunction does not seem an appropriate aspect to indicate a separation.

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The fact that Venus will change signs and conjucnt Uranus, points to a break up of sorts. So it could mean you leaving this job in about 4 months (4 degrees before Venus/Uranus conjunct). I think for the next 2 months you'd feel good working there, but then when Venus enters Aries, things may go downhill and there may be some dissatisfaction. You will choose to leave.
I ignored Uranus when I studied the chart because it's an outer planet, and outer planets aren't used in horary traditionally, but I think your take is correct nevertheless. This is the impression I had when I viewed the chart--that I will be happy working during the symbolic time that Venus is in Pisces, but conditions will worsen when Venus enters Aries. I certainly hope I last longer than two months, however. I also agree with you and Dr. Farr that most likely, "the querent [I] will be the one to decide if employment continues, rather than the employer." This corresponds with my prior experiences. I am curious how you and he see this in the chart.

Quote:
I do think the career within this field may be the right one for you with Saturn conjucnt Fortuna, but possibly not with the current employer.
Again, I believe this is very likely. I have been oddly intent upon health matters, particularly nutrition, for about two years now; I don't think it's a passing interest.

Quote:
Mercury and Sun are the secondary significators for the job, although they are close to 11th cusp. Moon will square Jupiter in the 12th and also oppose Mercury/Sun. It seems issues that are 'unseen' at the moment will surface which may make you think twice whether you want this job or not.
I will keep my eyes peeled and update this thread if/when such unseen issues appear.

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Best wishes!
Thank you! And thanks for your very helpful delineation.

Quote:
(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

I'll use the Lot of Dismissal or Resignation (saturn+jupiter-sun) to estimate this:

-LODOR falls @ 15 Capricorn
-querent = 1st house = Taurus = Venus
-Venus around the wheel to conjunction with LODOR = approx. 9 1/2 signs
-since fixed signs are on the pivots, each sign = 1 month
-first estimate = 9/10 months
-co-significator Moon to LODOR = 5 1/2 signs = 5/6 months second estimate
...so, based on the LODOR the time estimate for continuing employment with the same employer is from a minimum of 5 months up to a maximum of 10 months, from the date of this question; indications are that the querent will be the one to decide if employment continues, rather than the employer; IF the querent is still choosing to stay with the current employer after the maximum 10 month period has elapsed, then querent will likely continue to stay and work with the same employer for at least 1 year thereafter.
Fascinating method! One of my horary astrology books contains a list of some Arabic Parts, and sure enough, I found the one to which you referred. I certainly hope I stay employed here for a longer period of time; I want to demonstrate to myself and future employers that I possess qualities of commitment and loyalty, that I do not quit at the first signs of difficulty. Thank you, as well, Dr. Farr!

Arian Maverick
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  #5  
Unread 02-09-2012, 04:13 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: How Long Will I Work at New Job?

LODOR is disposited by Saturn, which is in its exaltation sign (one reason I determined that querent would not be dismissed by employers) and is in a pitted degree (ie, a blocked-no change-degree), another reason why I determined that no action regarding the querent would be taken by employers (Note: 10th house = employers, Saturn lord of the 10th-that's 10th whole sign-as well as significator of LODOR) Venus = querent, and is elevated above Saturn (LODOR and employers significator) AND Venus (querent) is within a degree of conjunction with its exact exaltation degree point: so...querent will likely be the one who makes the decision about continued employment.
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  #6  
Unread 02-10-2012, 03:41 AM
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Re: How Long Will I Work at New Job?

It is good to hear from you again and that your life is moving forward. In horary astrology the Moon is usually used for timing. A symbolic direction of the Moon to an important significator will time the event.

In the chart Taurus is rising and Venus is your significator. Using the sixth house to indicate the occupation or job of the querent is a modern idea. The occupation is a tenth house matter. Therefore, the significator of the job is Saturn ruler of the tenth.

Both Venus and Saturn have essential dignity, and I give 12 points to Venus and 7 to Saturn. Venus is in mutual reception with Jupiter. Saturn is conjunct the Lot of Fortune. Because the Sun is in the tenth house and Moon in the fourth house, Fortune is in good condition. So you look to be in good shape here. The job should be interesting and will probable help your financial situation. However, there is no aspect between Saturn and Venus so at some point you will find something better.

The Moon is also your significator, and it is at the beginning of Leo. About 28 degrees separate the Moon and Saturn. This can be used as the term of your employment: one month to each degree gives 28 months. At that time a better situation may well open for you.
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Unread 02-10-2012, 04:16 AM
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Re: How Long Will I Work at New Job?

Even though Saturn and capricorn may not describe your job, it does describe the fact that you want to build a career within this field - climb the ladder of success here, so to speak. Mercury located in 10th, might point to nutrition and health matters (as it rules Virgo). So I'd still take 10th house for you job, 6th house is used mostly to get an insight into health and sickness. Personally I used 6th house for my weekend job, while I was studying...10th house for this work did not seem appropriate, as I had no intention of working there beyond a certain point or 'climbing the ladder'. And the charts reflected this as well.

Uranus, even though not used traditionally can still be taken into consideration when they 'jump out', conjucnt the significator or an imporant point in the chart - they do give some valuable clues sometimes.

I am not sure how long you will stay at this current workplace, but 2 degrees before Venus changes signs, could be 2 months or 2 years. But inconjucnt with Saturn happens in 1 degree, so this is a future aspect...some adjustment to be made in the future regarding your work. Possibly there will be changes and you will have to readjust again, and you may be happy with the changes for a while until Venus changes signs and things are not that happy anymore.

Hopefully its 2 years and not 2 months :-) According to Frawley cadent planets are literaly 'falling' so the events shown by aspects etc would happen sooner rather than later...but other astrologers disagree, so timing wise, things can be difficult to ascertain.
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Unread 02-10-2012, 04:22 AM
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Re: How Long Will I Work at New Job?

To answer your other question as to why I believed querent to decide about employement rather than employer...well, Saturn, the employer/job is well dignified and conjucnt Fortuna, so I'd think the employer wants you no harm...if you going to leave this job it will be your own free will. Saturn is also in the sign of Venus, you. (I don't quite follow Lilly when it comes to reception, I always used Frawley...) So here it seems Saturn being in the sign ruled by Venus, the employer/workplace really likes you... :-)
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  #9  
Unread 02-13-2012, 09:04 PM
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Re: How Long Will I Work at New Job?

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Re: How Long Will I Work at New Job?
LODOR is disposited by Saturn, which is in its exaltation sign (one reason I determined that querent would not be dismissed by employers) and is in a pitted degree (ie, a blocked-no change-degree), another reason why I determined that no action regarding the querent would be taken by employers (Note: 10th house = employers, Saturn lord of the 10th-that's 10th whole sign-as well as significator of LODOR) Venus = querent, and is elevated above Saturn (LODOR and employers significator) AND Venus (querent) is within a degree of conjunction with its exact exaltation degree point: so...querent will likely be the one who makes the decision about continued employment.
Quote:
To answer your other question as to why I believed querent to decide about employement rather than employer...well, Saturn, the employer/job is well dignified and conjucnt Fortuna, so I'd think the employer wants you no harm...if you going to leave this job it will be your own free will. Saturn is also in the sign of Venus, you. (I don't quite follow Lilly when it comes to reception, I always used Frawley...) So here it seems Saturn being in the sign ruled by Venus, the employer/workplace really likes you... :-)
Thank you rafaella and dr. farr for explaining how you arrived at your conclusions; your reasoning makes sense, and what's more, the chart seemed to open up when I applied a few of the principles you've described.

Quote:
(I don't quite follow Lilly when it comes to reception, I always used Frawley...)
I'm not familiar with John Frawley's work, which must sound sacrilegious to horary astrologers. I am curious about his system of rulerships now, though--I always had used Ptolemy's Table of Essential Dignities.

Quote:
It is good to hear from you again and that your life is moving forward. In horary astrology the Moon is usually used for timing. A symbolic direction of the Moon to an important significator will time the event.

In the chart Taurus is rising and Venus is your significator. Using the sixth house to indicate the occupation or job of the querent is a modern idea. The occupation is a tenth house matter. Therefore, the significator of the job is Saturn ruler of the tenth.

Both Venus and Saturn have essential dignity, and I give 12 points to Venus and 7 to Saturn. Venus is in mutual reception with Jupiter. Saturn is conjunct the Lot of Fortune. Because the Sun is in the tenth house and Moon in the fourth house, Fortune is in good condition. So you look to be in good shape here. The job should be interesting and will probable help your financial situation. However, there is no aspect between Saturn and Venus so at some point you will find something better.

The Moon is also your significator, and it is at the beginning of Leo. About 28 degrees separate the Moon and Saturn. This can be used as the term of your employment: one month to each degree gives 28 months. At that time a better situation may well open for you.
Thank you for responding as well, Culpeper. I considered briefly using the tenth house ruler when I first began studying this chart, but I dismissed the idea because I am not my own boss; I had thought the tenth house traditionally described the higher nobility, whose modern equivalent is the company owner or the chief operating officer. I bow to your greater experience and insight, however.

I am aware that the Part of Fortune is derived from the positions of the Ascendant, Sun, and Moon, but I hadn't realized that the house positions of the Sun and the Moon would determine its strength or, perhaps more specifically, the degree to which the Part of Fortune is "fortunate." Would you mind explaining this if you have a spare moment? It it simply a matter that the tenth and the fourth are angular houses, or are they regarded as "fortunate" houses in a way that the eighth and the twelfth traditionally have been regarded as "unfortunate" houses?

I agree with your assessment that the job is interesting, and it will help my financial situation. What's more, I'm developing skills and confidence. 28 months seems like a perfect length of time to be employed there. It will be interesting to consult this chart as I develop a history with this company, even if it ultimately is a short one.

Arian Maverick
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Unread 02-14-2012, 06:58 PM
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Re: How Long Will I Work at New Job?

As you said in your response, the Sun and Moon are in angular houses, and this make the POF very helpful. Lilly and other earlier astrologers always used the 10th house for the occupation in a question or nativity. The 6th house could be consulted for surgeons or military persons, but it is a secondary significator.

In nativities it was the usual practice to consult Mercury, Venus and and Mars. However, that appears to be for the life time career or occupation of the native.
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