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Unread 04-06-2020, 10:02 PM
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Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

I'm asking because I've come across posts regarding 12th house, where people are saying its a house where you need private time, and I get that.

But I'm a very private person and I have no planets in the 12th house, but I have three planets sun/mercury/Saturn in the 8th (Placidus). And if I used whole signs my Asc ruler would be in the 8th, so both make sense.

But surely both the 8th/12th can't mean the same thing regarding "privacy", do they refer to different kinds of privacy? If so what would they be?

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Unread 04-06-2020, 11:32 PM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
I'm asking because I've come across posts regarding 12th house, where people are saying its a house where you need private time, and I get that.

But I'm a very private person and I have no planets in the 12th house, but I have three planets sun/mercury/Saturn in the 8th (Placidus).



Hi Chrysalis,

for me 12th house is not about privacy - more about publicity and being known in public and outer society and to people - as famous and known people, politicans and movie stars, artists, singers, sportsmen have planet placements in 12th house. Those person don't have much privacy - as the world is watching them and looking on them.

Donald Trump - 12th house - mars pluto
George W. Bush -12th - sun, saturn
Abraham lincoln - 12th moon
Queen Victoria - 12th - Sun, moon mercury, venus, mars
Vladimir Putin - 12th house - Sun, mercury, saturn, neptune
Hillary Clinton - 12th. house- Sun, mercury, venus, neptune
David Beckham - 12th house - Sun, mercury, jupiter,
Victoria Beckham - 12th mars, saturn
Liza Minelli - 12th - Sun, mercury, venus
Cher - 12th house -uranus venus

8th house is about intimacy – and also marriage – what happens behind closed doors in a longlasting relationship and marriage as a deep transformation. 8th house is genetic inheritance, inherited skills and gifts from family members, family traditions and beliefs- but also about all addictions, obsessions, rituals, psychological issues and predisposition for health issues, death and near to death experience.
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Unread 04-07-2020, 04:43 AM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

It's not unusual to find public figures with 12th house suns. In this house of "self-undoing," it can be the ego that gets undone. The 12th house sun seems to do well if it can align with a constituency or cause bigger than oneself. A 12th/6th house axis has been called a "serve or suffer" lifetime.

I don't think having Mars or an outer planet signifies as much in the 12th house without the sun or moon there. If a 12th house planet conjuncts the ascendant, it will act more like a first house planet. We see this with Donald Trump's Mars. I have Saturn in the 12th and I definitely need my "down time" alone to recharge my batteries.

Then what is the rest of the chart doing? Trump's sun is in his 10th house of public image. The sun shows our sense of identity. He's going to identify more with 10th house matters than with his 12th house.

Hillary Clinton's birth time is unknown. The 12th house sun is based on a chart rectification. I think Abraham Lincoln's birth time is unknown, as well. It's probably not Rodden AA rated.

Interestingly, both George W. Bush and Queen Victoria were visible public figures until catastrophe struck, when they retreated from public view. Bush's economic legacy at the conclusion of his second term was the Recession of 2008. Queen Victoria became reclusive upon the death of her husband Prince Albert. If we accept Hillary Clinton's ToB she hasn't been much visible since losing the presidency to Donald Trump in 2008.

One thing about entertainers and fashion models is that their careers may take them into the spotlight, but the "real" person inside, when they're not on stage, may be much more private.

The 12th house more broadly is one that is hidden from us, even thought it may be perfectly transparent to everyone else around us.

Chrysalis, I think 8th house suns tend to be private people as well. Maybe you can say more about how this feels to you.

4th house people can seem private in the sense that they are basically home-bodies.
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Unread 04-07-2020, 08:38 AM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

Quote:
I've come across posts regarding 12th house, where people are saying its a house where you need private time,
Different astrology enthusiasts will have different views about the meanings implied in houses (and signs and planets). I believe much to be through how they view themselves through the chart and their situations in life.

The 12th house is not so much about privacy but 'not being in the public/societal eye' of the 10th house … as Zora implicated.
Is it coincidence that hospitals and prisons are associated with this house, as protector or inmate? Yet also ashrams, rehab. centres and homeless shelters of any kind.
It's the area where an individual 'is not seen for themselves', so to speak but fuse with a non-societal identity.
I agree totally with Waybread's view of the 12th house; it's association with the dissolution of personal ego is well documented. If an individual is not happy with this state, the house can also refer to the suffering and victimisation one personally experiences in respect to his/her place with the rest of the world.
I've had charts of pro's from many walks of life whose 12th house planet dictated how they could 'take themselves out of themselves'; disassociating with what was going on around them.

Even the 8th house isn't really 'private' of nature. Getting an inheritance, sharing a mortgage, indulging in criminal schemes, seeking legal action, etc. can't exactly be called 'private' of nature because it involves other people.
It could well be the house where one's private life is not shared to all and sundry; where a secrecy of nature lies that an individual prefers to keep that way. That's different to being a person requiring private time 'where'?

I think 'privacy' would be found as an aspect of a sign and I'd go for Scorpio.
But that's just me.
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Unread 04-07-2020, 07:45 PM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

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Chrysalis, I think 8th house suns tend to be private people as well. Maybe you can say more about how this feels to you.

4th house people can seem private in the sense that they are basically home-bodies.
Going on what you've mentioned about the 12th house regarding celebrities, maybe the 8th house following on from the 7th is a private house regarding one on one relationships?

My 8th house planets I can't get away from, the way they manifest themselves can be quite extreme at times, but because my 8th house sun/Saturn is square my moon, id say this is the reason why. The older i get the more intense i seem to feel the private 8th house, i was a lot more sociable in my younger years, but now i really do isolate myself a lot more.
You'd think this "social isolation" would be an easy ride for me, it is in some respects, but I can take it to extremes and cut people off even communication-wise when my moon/Saturns being triggered (like now by venus).

I can be around people, i can be around extroverts, but i then really need triple the time to recoup alone. I don't like attention that much, im not on any social media site (Facebook etc), even on WhatsApp i don't have any profile picture up, i hate having my photo taken, i always dodge the camera.
I know there are many more meanings to the 8th house and many i have experienced, but these are just regarding "isolation" "private".

So going on what I've mentioned about my experiences of the 8th house, how would these differ with the 12th?
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Unread 04-07-2020, 07:51 PM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

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I think 'privacy' would be found as an aspect of a sign and I'd go for Scorpio.
But that's just me.
And the 8th house is a Scorpio house.
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Unread 04-07-2020, 09:06 PM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

Chrysalis, normally I try not to conflate signs and houses, except in medical astrology. To me, a sign says how or in what manner a planet operates. A house indicates the area of life in which a planet operates.

Of course, if someone has the sun in Scorpio in the 8th, then the overlap between signs and houses is true by virtue of the person's birth time.

Sun-Saturn can be a recipe for isolation. Saturn basically tends to contract what it touches, vs. Jupiter, which tends to expand what it touches. Sun-Saturn people often grow up with self-esteem (sun) issues, so they often learn how to be alone by way of minimizing ego-bruising contacts with other people. A square to the moon would especially seem like a recipe for coping with hurt feelings (moon) by self-isolation (sun-Saturn.)

The 8th house is the traditional house of death. One's death cannot be read transparently off the 8th house, but 8th house people have mentioned thinking about death a lot. They feel others would find their interest in death to be morbid or socially unacceptable, so they don't like to talk about it.

The 8th house in modern astrology also deals with the occult. (However one defines occult.) To me, a commonality is wanting to uncover life's deeper mysteries. Contemplating one's own mortality would naturally seem to point to wanting to probable life-and-death questions at a deeper level.

I don't think there is one right answer for the 8th or 12th house. Not only do the houses have multiple interpretations consistent with their core meanings, but it makes a big difference if one's sun is in a house, vs., say, Uranus.

My adult daughter has a 12th house sun. She might disagree with this, but I think developing her ego for her own self just doesn't work very well. On the other hand, she is an elementary school teacher and has always had a good group of friends, and these are areas where one's own ego can easily take on the identities of the group of friends or the classroom of children. She's no doormat, but a lot of her life orientation is to others. This is one manifestation of the sun in the "house of self-undoing."

I think having a Leo sun in the 12th house would be very difficult. My sun-Leo sister, birth time unknown, probably has a 12th or 4th house sun. Definitely the queen in her castle, where having a beautiful home and home-based past times take up a lot of her life.
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Last edited by waybread; 04-07-2020 at 09:08 PM.
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Unread 04-07-2020, 09:17 PM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

@Waybread
So do you think the way I've described my 8th house planetary placements, that they are nothing to do with the 8th house they are more to do with the sun/Saturn conjunction square my moon?
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Unread 04-07-2020, 09:17 PM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

Could you post your chart, please?
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Unread 04-07-2020, 09:20 PM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

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Could you post your chart, please?
OMG after what I've told you I'm like, you're asking me to post my chart....eek!

Okay, but only because you asked Waybread, I wouldn't do this for anyone else
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Unread 04-07-2020, 09:33 PM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

Heres the chart........
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Unread 04-07-2020, 09:53 PM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post
The 12th house is not so much about privacy but 'not being in the public/societal eye' of the 10th house … as Zora implicated.
Fiesiangal - I implicated nothing. I only shared my point of view and astrological insight from my method - what I found as true - from feedbacks of chart owners as well. Nobody has to share it or to take it over. I can fully respect other meanings and point of views - but will not take them over.

A long time ago conservative heads strongly believed in that the earth is flat. But times and beliefs changes and minds got open for something new. Thanks God.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post
Different astrology enthusiasts will have different views about the meanings implied in houses (and signs and planets). I believe much to be through how they view themselves through the chart and their situations in life.
The 12th house is not so much about privacy but 'not being in the public/societal eye' of the 10th house … as Zora implicated.
Is it coincidence that hospitals and prisons are associated with this house, as protector or inmate? Yet also ashrams, rehab. centres and homeless shelters of any kind.
It's the area where an individual 'is not seen for themselves', so to speak but fuse with a non-societal identity.
I agree totally with Waybread's view of the 12th house; it's association with the dissolution of personal ego is well documented. If an individual is not happy with this state, the house can also refer to the suffering and victimisation one personally experiences in respect to his/her place with the rest of the world.
I've had charts of pro's from many walks of life whose 12th house planet dictated how they could 'take themselves out of themselves'; disassociating with what was going on around them.
Even the 8th house isn't really 'private' of nature. Getting an inheritance, sharing a mortgage, indulging in criminal schemes, seeking legal action, etc. can't exactly be called 'private' of nature because it involves other people.
It could well be the house where one's private life is not shared to all and sundry; where a secrecy of nature lies that an individual prefers to keep that way. That's different to being a person requiring private time 'where'?
I think 'privacy' would be found as an aspect of a sign and I'd go for Scorpio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frisiangal View Post
But that's just me.
Yes - this is true - it is just you.
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Unread 04-08-2020, 02:26 AM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

Chrysalis:


I'll take a stab at the reading of the nativity chart using the Tad Mann methodology.



He would start (I think) at the 9th house of your conception - and Venus is the ruler and in the 9th house as well. I'd think that Venus is representative of a woman in your mom's life, perhaps a sister she was close to or her mother/grandmother? If not, then it's possible its even your mom as Venus here. Venus however is depleted by it's aspects to the Sun and Moon (father the Sun and mother typically the moon), of your mother's side. Did she have trouble with her parents when they found out she was pregnant with you?



The 8th house would be seen as the baggage (for lack of a better word) that mother carried with her into the union with your father when you were conceived. The 8th house cusp ruled by the Sun (and the Sun i.e. your father) is in this house along with a close conj. to Saturn) I wonder who Saturn is? ...
But regardless, it appears mother and father weren't on the best of terms during or after you were conceived.

Father (the Sun at 2Virgo) is opposite the Royal Persian Star "Fomalhaut" which usually points to an event with someone who made the news, either on TV or in a newspaper article, or some other type of note in life. May be good or not. Usually is from ones's I've known. Like winning a prize, or being selected in High School for a Congressional Award (film-making), or some other type of noteworthy event. Of course there are those too who were either in some type of trouble legally, hence were written up about too.


I don't know whether your Sun (if father symbolically speaking) Quintile to the 10th house Uranus, means anything to you, but you have a very intriguing chart.



If any of this rings a bell of truth, I'd appreciate a little feedback, via PM if you'd like.



Here is the type of astrology I'm attempting to (delineate) read:


http://www.atmann.net/tma.htm
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Unread 04-08-2020, 04:20 AM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

Hi again, Chrysalis--

One thing that pops out about your chart is Uranus conjunct MC. Uranus is the modern ruler of astrology, so this aspect is associated with astrologers. (Not all, but I say, if you got it, flaunt it.)

I have Saturn at 3 degrees of Virgo, as well, although not conjunct my sun. (I have a wide sun-Saturn opposition.) Basically Virgo can be a perfectionist, and with sun-Saturn paired together, it's easy to be self (sun) critical (Saturn.)

With Saturn square moon, I suspect that you can only take so much of negative people.

But beyond that, I don't think everyone is cut out to be an extrovert. Basically (in my understanding,) when an extrovert feels unhappy, she wants to surround herself with friends who will commiserate with her. When an introvert feels unhappy or simply a bit too stressed, she finds her down-time to be restorative.

The 8th house will deal with sexuality to some extent (also the 5th) but I think this theme is magnified by your Venus-Pluto-Mars conjunction.

To some extent I see you as an "8th chord" person: sun, Saturn, Mercury, and NN in the 8th, Pluto conjunct Venus-Mars, and MC in Scorpio. I think you need to "go deep" in life to explore its mysteries-- whether this is through living on the edge between life and death, sexuality, or exploring occult matters. Your need for privacy may be a kind of protective buffer or shield against nosy people who might find some of your beliefs transgressive.

So is it sun-Saturn? Is it the 8th? Hard so say because we don't get to separate out parts of ourselves for some kind of independent analysis.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

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Unread 04-08-2020, 06:48 AM
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Re: Whats so different about the 8th house and 12th house privacy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zora View Post
Fiesiangal - I implicated nothing. I only shared my point of view and astrological insight from my method - what I found as true - from feedbacks of chart owners as well. Nobody has to share it or to take it over. I can fully respect other meanings and point of views - but will not take them over.

A long time ago conservative heads strongly believed in that the earth is flat. But times and beliefs changes and minds got open for something new. Thanks God.






Yes - this is true - it is just you.
Quote:
Quote:
Zora wrote :
for me 12th house is not about privacy - more about publicity and being known in public and outer society and to people - as famous and known people, politicans and movie stars, artists, singers, sportsmen have planet placements in 12th house. Those person don't have much privacy - as the world is watching them and looking on them.
Quote:
The 12th house is not so much about privacy but 'not being in the public/societal eye' of the 10th house … as Zora implicated.
I think you totally misread what i was saying. . I was agreeing with you!
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