conspiracy theorist
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The eternal conflict between the big head and the little head
Seven Arguments for why the Sidereal Zodiac is the best form of sign division.
- Thread starter petosiris
- Start date
david starling
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What a :jupiterasc: answer
Not necessarily. But you're certainly entitled to your own opinion.
david starling
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Vettius Valens THE ANTHOLOGY
free online in pdf form
translated from the original Ancient Greek by Professor Mark T Riley CSU
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s entire.pdf
''in conflict with
itself because one Fish is northern, the other southern''
Generalizations are fun, but notoriously unreliable.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
I believe it and/or not!
What a :jupiterasc: answer
Not necessarily. But you're certainly entitled to your own opinion.
Siriusly and so on ad infinitum Q.E.D.Generalizations are fun, but notoriously unreliable.
Generalizations are fun, but notoriously unreliable.
Not necessarily. But you're certainly entitled to your own opinion.
david starling
Well-known member
No generalization is entirely true, including this one.
JUPITERASC
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Most generalization is entirely unreliable - excluding this oneNo generalization is entirely true, including this one.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
generalisation is fun but unreliable
Leo is ... ''haters of flattery'' Vettius Valens - 2nd century astrologer - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
Tropical signs have changed with precession confirmed
david starling
Well-known member
david starling
Well-known member
Most generalization is entirely unreliable - excluding this one
Generalizing about which generalizations should be excluded from not being necessarily true, is a matter of opinion. You're certainly entitled to yours.
david starling
Well-known member
General-ly speaking, I have a Major problem with Corporal punishment, although it's just my own Private opinion.
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Generally speaking, I have a Major problem with Corporal punishment, although it's just my own Private opinion.
[insert meme about capitalism as modern slavery] :jupiterasc:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Vettius Valens THE ANTHOLOGYLeo is ... ''haters of flattery'' Vettius Valens - 2nd century astrologer - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf
Tropical signs have changed with precession confirmed
free online in pdf form
translated from the original Ancient Greek by Professor Mark T Riley CSU
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Renowned Classics Scholar Robert Schmidt of PROJECT HINDSIGHT
began translating Vettius Valens THE ANTHOLOGY
for his wife who developed an interest in astrology
Schmidt however has written detailed footnotes to Valens
so his translations are not cheap
whereas
Professor Mark T Riley randomly translated Valens
because of his interest in the mathematical content
of THE ANTHOLOGY by Vettius Valens
Rileys translation was intended for his students at CSU
he gave it away freely then after he realised it would be helpful
for those who cannot afford PROJECT HINDSIGHT translations
which by the way are excellent also and available at http://www.projecthindsight.com/index1.html
JUPITERASC
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Merc is Direct, on the verge of entering (tropical) Scorpio.
With Sign-blending, that means
that although it's IN Libra, with Libra as dominant-sign, it's still
picking up a mix of Libran and Scorpionic qualities.
Venus is Retrograde in Scorpio, and will exactly Conjunct Mercury
at 8 degrees 51 minuteson the 15th (Oct. 2018, P.D.T.)
Are you saying ingresses can occur
at the 25ths of the tropical signs, like in a sidereal zodiac?
VISUAL ANIMATION OF TROPICAL & SIDEREAL PERSPECTIVE
WITH DESCRIPTIVE NARRATIVE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-DYgGFjI
One should make no difference between the constellations (or images) and the twelfth-parts. For it is very clear to the material senses, one can see with his naked eyes every day, that of the Aries, the horns and head arise in the first decan, the body in the second decan, and the back in the third decan, ending with the tail.
Of Taurus who is rising backwards, the truncated body and the Pleiades arise in the first decan, the head with the Torch in the middle in the second decan, and the bright horn tips with the end of the third decan.
Of Gemini, the first leg of the southern twin arises at the beginning of the decan and the second towards the end of it, the left leg of the northern twin arises towards the middle of the second decan, and the bodies are similarly judged relative to the legs, with the heads in the third decan, the southern twin head (around Castor, not Castor by itself) in the middle, the northern twin head (around Pollux, not Pollux by itself) towards the end.
Of Cancer, who is rising backwards, the back and some of the limbs arise in the first decan, the head, body and the rest of the limbs arise in the second decan, the end of the claws end the third decan.
Of Leo, the head, heart and shoulders arise in the first decan, the belly in the second decan, and the last thighs in the third decan, with the tail around Denebola at the end.
Of Virgo, the head and shoulders arise in the first decan, the belly and hands arise in the second decan, and the feet arise in the third decan, ending with Spica.
Of Libra, the hand and handle arise in the first decan, the balance beam in the second decan, with the weighing pans arising from the beginning to the end of the third decan (they are circling the two brightest stars of Libra - Alpha and Beta Librae).
Of Scorpio, the claws and head arise in the first decan, the rest of the limbs and the body with the Mars-like star in the middle arises in the second decan, the tail arises in the third decan, with the bright sting marking the end of it.
Of Sagittarius, the arrow and the bow arise in the first decan, with point of the arrow marking the border, the body, face and hand grip arise with the second decan, while the back, cloak and tail arise in the third decan, the tail marking the end of it. Of the Archer, the first half (hora) is human, the latter half (hora) is quadrupedal.
Of Capricorn, the horns and head mark the first decan, the quadrupedal body continues until the middle, where it is cut, where the fish body arises with the tail marking the end of the third decan.
Of Aquarius, who is rising backwards, the head and left shoulder arise in the first decan, the right hand arises in the second decan, along with the pitcher in the middle, and the rest, continuing to the last decan is made of water, and is very moist.
Finally, of Pisces, the southern fish head and body arise in the first decan, the tail and cord continue throughout the second decan, with the Northern Fish and cord arising in the third decan, as does their bond at the end.
If one examines the chapter from the Book of Abraham in Firmicus, or the appendix in Rhetorius (which might be derived from Teucer of Babylon) he will see the same thing, the constellations (images, not simply lines) are identical with the equal twelve parts - the signs of the zodiac. Here is an example from the translation by Bram: ''The degrees of Leo are divided thus: the first and second degrees in the head; the three following in the face and nostrils; three more in the mouth of Leo; the same number in the heart; three in the shoulders and three in the feet; two in the belly; the 20th, 21st, and 22nd in the back; 23rd and 24th in the breast; three on the knees; the 28th in the genitals, the 29th in the kidneys, and the 30th in the tail.'' - Maternus, J. F. (1975). Mathesis, translated as Ancient Astrology: Theory and Practice, Jean Rhys Bram, Park Ridge.
The Hellenistic astrologers, including ''tropical astrologers'' like Ptolemy made no distinction between the signs and the twelve constellations, they were interchangeable, since he mentions that the twelfth-parts have shapes - (μόρφωσις - http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Ptol.+1.12&fromdoc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0636).
Since these matters were so established, the Babylonian and Hellenistic astrologers did not adopt the tropical zodiac (beginning with the vernal equinox) until it was indistinguishable from the sidereal zodiac. The argument that the constellations do not match the sidereal zodiac is totally unfair and mischievous, or based on ignorance perceived through the (completely modern) IAU boundaries.
Of Taurus who is rising backwards, the truncated body and the Pleiades arise in the first decan, the head with the Torch in the middle in the second decan, and the bright horn tips with the end of the third decan.
Of Gemini, the first leg of the southern twin arises at the beginning of the decan and the second towards the end of it, the left leg of the northern twin arises towards the middle of the second decan, and the bodies are similarly judged relative to the legs, with the heads in the third decan, the southern twin head (around Castor, not Castor by itself) in the middle, the northern twin head (around Pollux, not Pollux by itself) towards the end.
Of Cancer, who is rising backwards, the back and some of the limbs arise in the first decan, the head, body and the rest of the limbs arise in the second decan, the end of the claws end the third decan.
Of Leo, the head, heart and shoulders arise in the first decan, the belly in the second decan, and the last thighs in the third decan, with the tail around Denebola at the end.
Of Virgo, the head and shoulders arise in the first decan, the belly and hands arise in the second decan, and the feet arise in the third decan, ending with Spica.
Of Libra, the hand and handle arise in the first decan, the balance beam in the second decan, with the weighing pans arising from the beginning to the end of the third decan (they are circling the two brightest stars of Libra - Alpha and Beta Librae).
Of Scorpio, the claws and head arise in the first decan, the rest of the limbs and the body with the Mars-like star in the middle arises in the second decan, the tail arises in the third decan, with the bright sting marking the end of it.
Of Sagittarius, the arrow and the bow arise in the first decan, with point of the arrow marking the border, the body, face and hand grip arise with the second decan, while the back, cloak and tail arise in the third decan, the tail marking the end of it. Of the Archer, the first half (hora) is human, the latter half (hora) is quadrupedal.
Of Capricorn, the horns and head mark the first decan, the quadrupedal body continues until the middle, where it is cut, where the fish body arises with the tail marking the end of the third decan.
Of Aquarius, who is rising backwards, the head and left shoulder arise in the first decan, the right hand arises in the second decan, along with the pitcher in the middle, and the rest, continuing to the last decan is made of water, and is very moist.
Finally, of Pisces, the southern fish head and body arise in the first decan, the tail and cord continue throughout the second decan, with the Northern Fish and cord arising in the third decan, as does their bond at the end.
If one examines the chapter from the Book of Abraham in Firmicus, or the appendix in Rhetorius (which might be derived from Teucer of Babylon) he will see the same thing, the constellations (images, not simply lines) are identical with the equal twelve parts - the signs of the zodiac. Here is an example from the translation by Bram: ''The degrees of Leo are divided thus: the first and second degrees in the head; the three following in the face and nostrils; three more in the mouth of Leo; the same number in the heart; three in the shoulders and three in the feet; two in the belly; the 20th, 21st, and 22nd in the back; 23rd and 24th in the breast; three on the knees; the 28th in the genitals, the 29th in the kidneys, and the 30th in the tail.'' - Maternus, J. F. (1975). Mathesis, translated as Ancient Astrology: Theory and Practice, Jean Rhys Bram, Park Ridge.
The Hellenistic astrologers, including ''tropical astrologers'' like Ptolemy made no distinction between the signs and the twelve constellations, they were interchangeable, since he mentions that the twelfth-parts have shapes - (μόρφωσις - http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Ptol.+1.12&fromdoc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0636).
Since these matters were so established, the Babylonian and Hellenistic astrologers did not adopt the tropical zodiac (beginning with the vernal equinox) until it was indistinguishable from the sidereal zodiac. The argument that the constellations do not match the sidereal zodiac is totally unfair and mischievous, or based on ignorance perceived through the (completely modern) IAU boundaries.
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The constellations are ok because although upside down, and moving right to left, they are also mirrored, the rising backwards of Taurus, Cancer and Aquarius is still evident. The constellations in Europe are also often upside down (with their head towards the earth), take Ursa Minor, Draco or other of the northern constellations for example. The celestial sphere is a bit dizzying at times.
And despite the mirrored images, the aborigines living in Australia, with the opposite climate of the Northern Hemisphere came with some of the same star lore as the people in the north - http://theconversation.com/kindred-...ustralians-saw-constellations-in-common-74850
''Baiame is the creation ancestor, seen in the sky as Orion - nearly identical in shape to his Greek counterpart. Baiame trips and falls over the horizon as the constellation sets, which is why he appears upside down.'' - human in the north, human in the south
''The Pleiades are called Mulayndynang in Wiradjuri, representing seven sisters being pursued by the stars of Orion.'' - seven sisters in the north, seven sisters in the south
''Many Aboriginal groups also view these stars as brothers.'' - double-bodied human image in the north, double-bodied human image in the south
It also gives a few examples of ''winged'' images such as Aquilla...
Amazing, cavemen and aborigines are able to distinguish the constellations better than modern astrologers, who delude themselves by thinking they are seasonal archetypes rather than corporeal images.
But good point about the lunar phases - http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/aslaksen/moon/moon-sw.html This could have significant meaning, seeing that the crescent on the right is looked as fortunate and become a religious symbol. The ''Ascending'' and ''Descending'' nodes are also to be reversed.
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
if a particular version of Astrology doesn't work well EVERYWHERE on Earth
(which is subject to debate), then it can't possibly work well ANYWHERE on Earth.
Illogical, I would say. Just chatting.
It does imply there is another reason for that particular astrology working somewhere, rather than
the reason given by the particular group
Is it because Astrology itself developed in the Temperate Zone of the Northern Hemisphere?
It developed quite far from the U.S.
.......... Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris
1. The gods send signs to all nations, but they are not interpret the same for the different lands, for one they signify hot weather, for another they signify cold weather, and for third they signify temperate weather.
2. In the same way, the like-principles of rising times and daylight become less discernible and causative in the equatorial zones.
3. Therefore another celestial influence is causative for nativities, rather than the terrestrial effect of weather. Otherwise, there would be no domicile, no exaltation and no depression for the equatorial lands.
4. The rationale of the sidereal zodiac is compatible with this hypothesis, the rationale of the tropical zodiac is not.
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