12th house matter: release from prison

KatyaVelikaya

Well-known member
Because I take it this is the "12th house" of horary thread, I am posting this here.

My close friend has been dabbling in horary lately and her husband is currently imprisoned. There is a possibility that he will get out early, either 6 mos or 1 year early, but it depends on their case (he is in with another man) being reviewed sometime around March 2014. She wants to know if he will get out sooner or serve 'til the end (he has just short of 2 years to go). She asked the question and so the querent in this case is her (first house) and he is 7th. I looked over it but i have really little to no experience in 12th house matters and the most I can figure out is not very clear. Would appreciate any help.

This is what I gather:
1) Chart is late degrees (the sentence is set) but it is up for review so I am going to overlook that one stricture against judgement.
2) ASC is 2 degrees cusp of Sagg, so I presume we take Jupiter for her.
3) 7th house, him, is 2 degrees Gemini, therefore Mercury.
One sample similar reading I found online, for some reason the astrologer took the planet that was "closest to the DSC" as the significator for the quesited. In this case that is the Moon in the 7th at home in Cancer.

So I am confused at this point: is she Jupiter or Moon; is he Mercury or Moon?

12th house is prison and that is Sagg therefore Jupiter. Lilly says Venus and Jupiter are the fortunes, and that the "degrees between the Lord of the 12th and the fortunes" show you how much longer the emprisoned person has to go. Jup is Lord of 12th. It is 147 degrees away from Venus. (?)
He also says "the good aspects between the Sun and the 12th significator" (?) not sure what it would be.

"If Venus aspects Moon or Mercury, the man will soon be released."
Lord of 4th, Taurus>Venus applies to fortune Jupiter...


I need to know "what aspects the Moon will make next" (not sure how to tell, bc if you forward the moon to see what it touches next, those planets have also already moved...?)

Additional considerations are Bonatti's:
Whether the Significators falls between the Ascendant and the Twelfth, for that signifies continuance or length of time, when a thing will be done; or if done already, how long it will continue in days or hours. If between the twelfth and the tenth, it notes half-weeks; between the tenth and seventh, months or weeks; between the seventh and fourth, years; and between the Fourth and the Ascendant, half years.

I did two calculations that give me a date of March 2015 but I am not sure they're correct.
Anyone?
 
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KatyaVelikaya

Well-known member
I don't have one, but I can try to ask... Still wouldn't a horary best show this in terms of being let go early or not?? I'm not sure a natal would show that (?)
 

Marinka

Well-known member
I don't have one, but I can try to ask... Still wouldn't a horary best show this in terms of being let go early or not?? I'm not sure a natal would show that (?)

A natal with transits, progressions, and solar arc should show it. Although, you would need to have n accurate time of birth.


 

KatyaVelikaya

Well-known member
This birth time is accurate, i've blocked out his personal information for privacy purposes. This is natal + prog + solar arc. For transits I will have to run a separate chart (they dont have one with all four of those). But let me know and I can post that too.

Note: this is progressed for today's date but I can run a progression for either the expected release date/month or what I thought I guessed at in the horary (march '15)...let me know...
 
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Marinka

Well-known member
This birth time is accurate, i've blocked out his personal information for privacy purposes. This is natal + prog + solar arc. For transits I will have to run a separate chart (they dont have one with all four of those). But let me know and I can post that too.

Note: this is progressed for today's date but I can run a progression for either the expected release date/month or what I thought I guessed at in the horary (march '15)...let me know...

Include chart for transits also. Make it for the new possible expected date and the also run a set for the full term of sentence.

 

KatyaVelikaya

Well-known member
OK here is a chart with the Transits shown for my suspected date, but I may be off by a month. I kept getting March so this is March 15...but could be April 1, etc.
 
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Marinka

Well-known member
OK here is a chart with the Transits shown for my suspected date, but I may be off by a month. I kept getting March so this is March 15...but could be April 1, etc.

This is for 2015 - would this be for serving the full term or getting out early?

Maybe specify what would be the early release date versus the full sentence date - would you be able to do that?

edited to add -- no need to provide additional information, it looks like early release is March 2015 and regular release is September 2015.

 
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KatyaVelikaya

Well-known member
So Sept 2015 (the second chart) is the final (official) release date. ie. He wont be out later than that.

What his wife wants to know is if the possibility of early release will come to fruition. She doesn't know *how early* that would be, but presumably either 6 mos or 1 year earlier. She said she doubted it would be a full year, but because of both legislative changes and a review of his case, it seems 6 mos earlier is possible...I didn't ask if its possible to have it be some odd number, ie 4 months earlier or 8 months or whatever> I presume it is either half year or full year or whatever. But that's not a fact, per se.

So that is why i put the March 2015 date, as early release, but it is just a guess at this point.
 

Marinka

Well-known member
A few points ---

On the SA --
- Saturn (restriction) was crossing the Mid (status) - I assume that this corresponded with the incarceration.

- Moon (house of focus) will be crossing over into the 9th but, it looks like the crossing is at least 2 degrees away which puts it 2 years from today -- not likely to early release.

On the transits --
- Jupiter (freedom) coming to conjunct mid at 13 Virgo (status) but it happens around October 2015 - not likely early release

- Jupiter (freedom) is trining venus (ruler of 12 of imprisonment) around 7/2013 and could indicate early release. In March, Jupiter goes Retrograde for about 1 month and this is likely to signal a delay from the March time.

- Mars (action) is trining Venus (12th house of imprisonment) around the September date and this would lend more weight to the Sept 2015 date.

- Jupiter (freedom) is moving to sextile the Asc (self) at the scheduled release date of September 2015 and would indicate less likelihood of early release.

Jupiter (freedom) is sextile Pluto (ruler of 1st) at the early release date of March 2015 and would be favorable for early release except, not much else happening at this time.

At a quick glance, most of the indications that I have seen are for the original term (9/2015) versus the March 2015 date.

Didn't have enough time to look for more.

 
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KatyaVelikaya

Well-known member
Thanks Marinka, I will share this w/her. The one point you made is about July 2015. I'm just wondering if there's any indication (and I have no idea how such things work) about action to sort of "push" for the earlier date. I dont know about that in reality with the laws and dont know about it with the horary either...
 

Marinka

Well-known member
So Sept 2015 (the second chart) is the final (official) release date. ie. He wont be out later than that.

What his wife wants to know is if the possibility of early release will come to fruition. She doesn't know *how early* that would be, but presumably either 6 mos or 1 year earlier. She said she doubted it would be a full year, but because of both legislative changes and a review of his case, it seems 6 mos earlier is possible...I didn't ask if its possible to have it be some odd number, ie 4 months earlier or 8 months or whatever> I presume it is either half year or full year or whatever. But that's not a fact, per se.

So that is why i put the March 2015 date, as early release, but it is just a guess at this point.


If release could be in September of 2014, then you would also need to generate a transit chart for that date to see if there are any angles that might indicate release.
 

Marinka

Well-known member
I just went back and read your initial post and there appears to be a case review date for March of 2014 - that date would also have to be checked for transits.
 

KatyaVelikaya

Well-known member
Ah! "Please hold" :) - I will run two more charts, for March and for Sept 2014 respectively...one second... OK I am attaching the first one here for March 2014. I dont see any release signs but would not expect them... I am not sure what would signify "review" of the case at that point though...

Venus trines Part of Fortune here. I dobt know if that's a strong enough indicator (or an indicator at all). I gathered we shoudl be looking for Venus/Jupiter positive aspects so I am searching for those...
 
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KatyaVelikaya

Well-known member
And here is Sept. 2014 so that would be 1 year prior to the official release. I see Jupiter is about to where it was at his birth time and Saturn well into the 1st..not sure what to make of that.
 
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Marinka

Well-known member
For March 2014 date --

Mars (27 lib) opposition Venus (22 Ari) indicates that limited actions available for the prison situation. I would consider this neither a pro nor a con, simply that there are issues that need to be addressed.

Jupiter has been retrograde and it hits 10 Cancer but the Ascendant is at 8 Scorpio so this is a trine that doesn't complete. With this is mind, this situation is likely not to meet hopes or expectations.

Jupiter at 10 Cancer is squaring Pluto (ruler of 1st) at 10 Libra. Again, not what was expected/hoped for.

Pluto is trining the Mid pretty exact and offers some good news. Pluto is the ruler of the 1st (self) and the Mid is status and could indicate that there is some setup in the future.

The above information does not offer a clear good or bad, rather .. a continuation to next date.


 

Marinka

Well-known member
For September 2014 date --

- Jupiter (freedom) is conjuncting Saturn (restrictions) and this would be a positive but, it is only 1 angle so far.

- Mars is opposing Jupiter, this is a minor angle and can be worrisome in that there are actions against the freedom. I would think that some people might be opposed to an early release and this could explain this angle.

- Jupiter (freedom) is sextile Pluto (self) and would indicate another positive. I would think this would be news about the early release.

- Neptune (end of matter) is conjuncting Mars and might be a cause for concern as this indicate confusion about the verdict. But, this is also the end of matter (4th house ruler) and has the potential to be the rules for ending this situation (probation?).

This gives you some idea of how this might go but, we are only working with pseudo dates ... you need the real ones and typically, you take it a step at a time.
 

KatyaVelikaya

Well-known member
Marinka, thank you so much for all of this feedback. I will be passing all of it along, I seriously am grateful on behalf of my girlfriend!

One thing that struck me i the March 2014 chart is it sounds like a back and forth, ie "this is positive, but then this is negative, then positive, and again then negative." Like a dialogue almost. I understand little of the process there (at prison) but I get that in terms of the release date it has to be negotiated, it's not all black-and-white. So maybe that is what we see there. The fact that there IS some movement (even if it ends up all staying in place) is still good. It shows that it will be reviewed in any case.

For the Sept 2014 date, it sounds like there are 3 positives and 1 negative... that sounds a bit more promising. If I hear more news as March comes around I will post it here to see what aspects may be correct...
 
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