Kalilak711
Member
Can someone please explain "sects" to me? Apparently it has to do with Hellenistic astrology, and the only site I found about it doesn't really explain it clearly. Your time is much appreciated. -Kp
Sects?
- Thread starter Kalilak711
- Start date
tsmall
Premium Member
Charts are either diurnal (day) or nocturnal (night) based on where the Sun is in relation to the horizon (AC/DSC axis.) If the Sun is above the horizon the "sect" is diurnal, below it is nocturnal. The Sun is the light in the sky during the day, Moon at night.
Planets are classified as being of the day/diurnal sect (Sun, Saturn and Jupiter) or of the night/nocturnal (Moon, Mars and Venus.) Mercury is harder to explain as he can be either depending on his position to the Sun.
The main idea is that if you have a day chart the diurnal planets want to work on your behalf and the nocturnal against. Reversed if the chart is nocturnal.
Here is a link that goes into detail about it.
http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2008/11/25/the-astrology-of-sect/
byjove
Account Closed
Hi, can anyone go into detail on sect interpretation? I'm particularly interested in out of sect effects and dispositorship.
I'm thinking along the lines of:
1. In the fire triplicity, the principle ruler, the Sun is in sect and the joint sect ruler, Saturn is out of sect. However, the Sun and Saturn are in strong, positive aspect, perhaps the Sun can help? Hand (1995) notes that the joint ruler is always subservient to the principle ruler. Is this 'a car that gets a flat tire, but discovers a spare in the boot'?
How does it work? The out of sect planet is disposed by a well-configured planet, Jupiter.
2. The principle sect ruler of the fire triplicity is well-placed but it's dispositor is perhaps peregrine and definitely out of sect. Is this, 'the car is broken and you've got your thumb up at the side of the road?'
I may have to create a new thread for the next bit, I read somewhere (can't remember where) that:
A) When the Sun exalts, so does Mars
B) A detrimented/fallen planet benefits from the (sign) company of a planet in exaltation or domicile.
I'm on a hunt to see which of my tricky placements can be 'bailed out'.
I'm thinking along the lines of:
1. In the fire triplicity, the principle ruler, the Sun is in sect and the joint sect ruler, Saturn is out of sect. However, the Sun and Saturn are in strong, positive aspect, perhaps the Sun can help? Hand (1995) notes that the joint ruler is always subservient to the principle ruler. Is this 'a car that gets a flat tire, but discovers a spare in the boot'?
How does it work? The out of sect planet is disposed by a well-configured planet, Jupiter.2. The principle sect ruler of the fire triplicity is well-placed but it's dispositor is perhaps peregrine and definitely out of sect. Is this, 'the car is broken and you've got your thumb up at the side of the road?'
I may have to create a new thread for the next bit, I read somewhere (can't remember where) that:
A) When the Sun exalts, so does Mars
B) A detrimented/fallen planet benefits from the (sign) company of a planet in exaltation or domicile.
I'm on a hunt to see which of my tricky placements can be 'bailed out'.
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
HELLENISTIC DELINEATIONS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=348708#post348708
FAQ SECT http://www.projecthindsight.com/
To be in Sect, the Sun must be above the horizon
The Sun can only be above the horizon in a Day/diurnal Chart
The Moon in a Night Chart may be in Sect either above or below the horizon
- that's because the Sun determines Diurnal/Nocturnal
(a) The Sun is always in Sect in a Day Chart
(b) The Moon is always in Sect in a Night Chart
ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATIONS
1.) In a diurnal chart you'd want the diurnal planets in the upper hemisphere with the Sun (hayz) as that would be more natural for those planets. The diurnal planets are Sun, Jupiter and Saturn.
If any diurnal planets in a diurnal chart are in the lower hemisphere/below the Ascendant/Descendant axis then although they are in sect, nevertheless they are considered slightly out of sect and more nocturnal in nature (halb).
If the nocturnal planets in a diurnal chart are below the horizon, although they are out of sect they are still in hayz and so more natural - but nocturnal planets that are above the horizon in a diurnal chart are situated contrary to their nature (halb).
2.) In a nocturnal chart you'd want the nocturnal planets in the upper hemisphere away from the Sun (hayz).
Any nocturnal planets in the lower hemisphere in a nocturnal chart are still in sect but are considered slightly out of sect and more diurnal in nature (halb).
If the diurnal planets in a nocturnal chart are below the horizon they are also hayz, so a little more natural but if they are above the horizon they are situated contrary to their nature nature (halb).
Just remember
(a) the Sun alone determines Day and Night.
(b) the Sun can only be above the horizon in a Day Chart
(c) the Moon is always out of Sect when the Sun is above the horizon (Diurnal/Day Chart)
(d) the Moon is always in Sect when the Sun is below the horizon (Nocturnal/Night Chart)
(e) therefore if the Sun is below the horizon it is a Nocturnal/Night Chart and
(f) therefore in a Nocturnal/Night Chart the Moon is in Sect whether above or below the Horizon
diurnal = day
nocturnal = night
(a) when above the horizon the Sun is in the upper hemisphere = Day/diurnal
(b) when below the horizon the Sun is in the lower hemisphere = Night/nocturnal
therefore
(c) the Moon is in Sect in a Night Chart irrespective of hemisphere and/or horizon
This is a question often debated
'Ascendant' is the name given to the Eastern section of the Great Circle of the Horizon
If the Sun were visible on the Eastern Horizon then one would define that as Day
Nevertheless there are a number of definitions for both Sunrise and Sunset - one of which is 'apparent sunrise/sunset' - Due to atmospheric refraction, sunrise occurs shortly before the sun crosses above the horizon. Light from the sun is bent, or refracted, as it enters earth's atmosphere. This effect causes the apparent sunrise to be earlier than the actual sunrise. Similarly, apparent sunset occurs slightly later than actual sunset. However, it should be noted that due to changes in air pressure, relative humidity, and other quantities, no one can predict the exact effects of atmospheric refraction on sunrise and sunset time: this possible error increases with higher latitudes (closer to the poles).
Official times of Sunrise and Sunset may be found on various astronomical websites.
Hellenistic astrology states that the Sun is always in sect in a day/diurnal chart and obviously then out of sect in a night/nocturnal chart
link to an explanation of sect http://horoscopicastrologyblog.com/2008/11/25/the-astrology-of-sect/
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Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
1. Two of three sect rulers are in sect and one isn't but is positively aspected by a sect ruler in sect. Is this 'a car that gets a flat tire, but discovers a spare in the boot'?
If you have a day chart, The Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn are all automatically in sect. You can't have an out of sect sect ruler, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.
2. Sect rulers are well-placed but their dispositor is perhaps peregrine and definitely out of sect. Is this, 'the car is broken and you've got your thumb up at the side of the road?'
This should really only hurt if the dispositor is an ill placed malefic. Otherwise it's just kind of meh.
I may have to create a new thread for the next bit, I read somewhere (can't remember where) that:
A) When the Sun exalts, so does Mars
B) A detrimented/fallen planet benefits from the (sign) company of a planet in exaltation or domicile.
I'm on a hunt to see which of my tricky placements can be 'bailed out'.
I don't understand what you're saying here. :/
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
"ON THE TWO SECTS IN HELLENISTIC ASTROLOGY" http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/hellenistic-sect.html
HELLENISTIC NATAL ASTROLOGY PART 1 http://www.projecthindsight.com/
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
I may have to create a new thread for the next bit, I read somewhere (can't remember where) that:
A) When the Sun exalts, so does Mars
B) A detrimented/fallen planet benefits from the (sign) company of a planet in exaltation or domicile.
I'm on a hunt to see which of my tricky placements can be 'bailed out'.
Kaiousei no Senshi, since:
(1) no planet is exalted in the domicile of the sun
(2) Sun is exalted in the natural home aka DOMICILE of Mars i.e. Aries
(3) The two planets in detriment and fall in Aries then are Venus and Saturn
SO THEN
by the phrase “in the company of a planet in Exaltation or Domicile”
byjove is IMPLYING that when either Venus and/or Saturn are "in the company of"an Aries Sun by conjunction then Venus and/or Saturn benefit,
BUT for such a scenario to qualify then Venus and/or Saturn
MUST EITHER be Cazimi aka 'in the heart of the sun'
OR
in order to avoid combustion and/or being under the sun's beams
THEN
Venus and/or Saturn must be more than 17º distant from any Aries Sun
AND, IF byjove is referring to a trine aspect from an Aries Sun to a Venus and/or Saturn in either Sagittarius or Leo
THEN we must remember that a planet in trine aspect to an Aries Sun would NOT be considered to be 'in the company of' an Aries Sun in the same sense that a planet in conjunction with an Aries sun would be
byjove
Account Closed
Thanks for the guidance everyone!
Oops, I best show a chart now, it's not the situation I had in mind.
Day Chart
Sun and Saturn are sect rulers
Sun is above horizon so in sect (and at least comfortably placed)
Saturn is below the horizon but out of sect. Saturn makes a positive connection with one sect ruler which is in Hayz, (see chart 2 here: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/triplicities.html ) and disposed by Jupiter, which is relatively comfortable I think, in sect, angular, in fire triplicity, no afflictions)
Yes, I read somewhere that when the Sun is exalted, Mars exalts too. There were other combinations, it wasn't special treatment for Rams! I believe I have a Peregrine Mars unless I've missed something. The other concern is the Aries planets are disposed by Mars. If I can't find the origin of Mars exalting in line with an exalted Sun, it could be troublesome - Peregrine.
Next in line is Mercury detrimented, possibily Perigrine, but is in the same sign as an exalted planet - Venus. Venus even has mixed dignity with Jupiter, but is out of sect. However, the Pisces planets' dispositor is Jupiter - which is comfortable in placement and dignity I think. I don't want to think some planets are better placed than they really are - example, disposed by a Peregrine planet, so I'm checking them out.
I'll show the chart below.
Oops, I best show a chart now, it's not the situation I had in mind.
Day Chart
Sun and Saturn are sect rulers
Sun is above horizon so in sect (and at least comfortably placed)
Saturn is below the horizon but out of sect. Saturn makes a positive connection with one sect ruler which is in Hayz, (see chart 2 here: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/triplicities.html ) and disposed by Jupiter, which is relatively comfortable I think, in sect, angular, in fire triplicity, no afflictions)
Yes, I read somewhere that when the Sun is exalted, Mars exalts too. There were other combinations, it wasn't special treatment for Rams! I believe I have a Peregrine Mars unless I've missed something. The other concern is the Aries planets are disposed by Mars. If I can't find the origin of Mars exalting in line with an exalted Sun, it could be troublesome - Peregrine.
Next in line is Mercury detrimented, possibily Perigrine, but is in the same sign as an exalted planet - Venus. Venus even has mixed dignity with Jupiter, but is out of sect. However, the Pisces planets' dispositor is Jupiter - which is comfortable in placement and dignity I think. I don't want to think some planets are better placed than they really are - example, disposed by a Peregrine planet, so I'm checking them out.
I'll show the chart below.
Attachments
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Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
Day chart.
Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn are in sect. Sun is the sect ruler.
Sun and Jupiter are above the horizon, so in halb.
Sun and Jupiter are also in a masculine sign, so in hayz.
Saturn is below the horizon, so is neither in halb nor hayz.
Being outside of your respective quadrant doesn't put you out of sect, that's determined by the diurnal or nocturnal quality of the chart.
I've never heard of such a thing. Having dignified planets disposed by a peregrine planet can cause some problems, particularly for exalted planets.
Mercury could be assisted by Venus if she was pushing power onto him, but Venus can't push onto Mercury. I'm not sure if cohabitation will alleviate problems, though. An interesting question.
byjove
Account Closed
Thanks Kai.
I was a bit concerned about relying on my own memory on this so I've re-read Robert Hand's notes on sect. I'm re-building my information on this, but I've yet to find the notes on my own questions! There are various considerations outside of sect which can mitigate effects and at least Robert Hand doesn't quickly assign a planet to doom in a chart; there is patient consideration.
Firstly, determine of the chart is diurnal or nocturnal.
Thereafter, use two considerations for each planet to determine sect. Having at least one of these two in favour avoids 'out of sect'. These are:
1. Is the planet diurnal or nocturnal in accordance with it's natural preference?
2. Is the planet in a sign which is in accordance with it's nature?
The only two that got my attention were Saturn and Mars. But following Robert Hand's notes, I've arrived at this conclusion:
Saturn Nocturnal (placement) - Diurnal + (sign) Also is Sect Ruler
Here it is at least in a diurnal sign as it would prefer. This is not out of sect then. Other considerations include that it is in the fire triplicity, which is ruled by the Sun, which is very content and - in strong aspect to it. Saturn is further disposed by the sect ruler - Jupiter, which is also very content. These guys appear to be on the telephone to each other, Saturn's not there, but they are talking...
Mars Diurnal (placement) - Diurnal (sign) +
Mars is different than the others for all charts in that it is a nocturnal planet but is masculine and so prefers masculine signs. In my case, it is above the horizon when it should be below, it is in a masculine sign so it is not completely out of sect. Phew.
Another thing which got my attention, the Moon in my chart is completely in sect. She is also in Hayz (horizon and sign, Al-Biruni) the house of her Joy, the 3rd. By Hellenistic consideration, that placement in my chart is very strong. A modern look would see two rough aspects and bet against the planet.
I was a bit concerned about relying on my own memory on this so I've re-read Robert Hand's notes on sect. I'm re-building my information on this, but I've yet to find the notes on my own questions! There are various considerations outside of sect which can mitigate effects and at least Robert Hand doesn't quickly assign a planet to doom in a chart; there is patient consideration.
Firstly, determine of the chart is diurnal or nocturnal.
Thereafter, use two considerations for each planet to determine sect. Having at least one of these two in favour avoids 'out of sect'. These are:
1. Is the planet diurnal or nocturnal in accordance with it's natural preference?
2. Is the planet in a sign which is in accordance with it's nature?
The only two that got my attention were Saturn and Mars. But following Robert Hand's notes, I've arrived at this conclusion:
Saturn Nocturnal (placement) - Diurnal + (sign) Also is Sect Ruler
Here it is at least in a diurnal sign as it would prefer. This is not out of sect then. Other considerations include that it is in the fire triplicity, which is ruled by the Sun, which is very content and - in strong aspect to it. Saturn is further disposed by the sect ruler - Jupiter, which is also very content. These guys appear to be on the telephone to each other, Saturn's not there, but they are talking...
Mars Diurnal (placement) - Diurnal (sign) +
Mars is different than the others for all charts in that it is a nocturnal planet but is masculine and so prefers masculine signs. In my case, it is above the horizon when it should be below, it is in a masculine sign so it is not completely out of sect. Phew.
Another thing which got my attention, the Moon in my chart is completely in sect. She is also in Hayz (horizon and sign, Al-Biruni) the house of her Joy, the 3rd. By Hellenistic consideration, that placement in my chart is very strong. A modern look would see two rough aspects and bet against the planet.
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Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
The big problem is you're mixing up terminology.
Sect is a condition that's tied to the time of day a chart is set for. Being a diurnal chart automatically makes the Sun, Saturn, and Jupiter in sect. Being a nocturnal chart automatically makes the Moon, Mars, and Venus in sect.
There are other, minor mitigations that can help an out of sect planet be less miserable or help an in sect planet be more comfortable. These are halb and hayz. Halb is when a planet is in the appropriate hemisphere representing it's sect light. Diurnal planets in the same hemisphere of the chart as the Sun is are in halb, whereas nocturnal planets in the opposite hemisphere of the chart as the Sun are in halb. Diurnal planets want to be with the Sun, nocturnal planets want to be away from him.
Hayz is when a planet is in halb and when they are in a sign that matches their gender.
The issue, though, is that the only big consideration here is the sect of the chart as halb and hayz are so minor that almost no one goes into a lot of detail in the differences and how exactly they assist.
tl;dr. You're mixing up "Sect" "hayz", and "halb" as if they're the same consideration with equal effects when this isn't the case. We aren't quite sure how the minor ones are supposed to work, and the chart being diurnal/nocturnal has always been the most important consideration of the three.
Sect is a condition that's tied to the time of day a chart is set for. Being a diurnal chart automatically makes the Sun, Saturn, and Jupiter in sect. Being a nocturnal chart automatically makes the Moon, Mars, and Venus in sect.
There are other, minor mitigations that can help an out of sect planet be less miserable or help an in sect planet be more comfortable. These are halb and hayz. Halb is when a planet is in the appropriate hemisphere representing it's sect light. Diurnal planets in the same hemisphere of the chart as the Sun is are in halb, whereas nocturnal planets in the opposite hemisphere of the chart as the Sun are in halb. Diurnal planets want to be with the Sun, nocturnal planets want to be away from him.
Hayz is when a planet is in halb and when they are in a sign that matches their gender.
The issue, though, is that the only big consideration here is the sect of the chart as halb and hayz are so minor that almost no one goes into a lot of detail in the differences and how exactly they assist.
tl;dr. You're mixing up "Sect" "hayz", and "halb" as if they're the same consideration with equal effects when this isn't the case. We aren't quite sure how the minor ones are supposed to work, and the chart being diurnal/nocturnal has always been the most important consideration of the three.
byjove
Account Closed
I'll adopt the Harvard system of referencing for author Robert Hand's book; Night and Day Planetary Sect (1995).
Robert Hand (1995, p2) places sect in the dignity rank in Night and Day Planetary Sect in Astrology:
"This simple criterion (sect) affected the computation of life expectancy, the computation of most of the lots, the succession of planetary rulerships over time and the rulers of the triplicities. However, what was more important than any of these is that every planet, every aspect and every house position was interpreted differently according to whether the chart was of a day or a night birth". (64 words)
Hand continues to define the sect ruling planets in the same book (1995, p4):
"As already stated, a chart is diurnal if the Sun is above the horizon, i.e. in houses 7 through 12. The chart is nocturnal if the sun is below the horizon, i.e. in houses 1 through 6". Signs are diurnal or nocturnal. The diurnal signs are the same as those called masculine or positive, while the nocturnal signs are the same as those which are called feminine ones". (62 words)
In the same book, Hand continues to explain planetary placement diurnally or nocturnally independently of the diurnal or nocturnal state of the chart (1995, p4):
"A planet may be placed diurnally or nocturnally in a chart regardless of whether the planet is diurnal or nocturnal according to it's own nature, and also regardless of whether the sign in which the planet is located, or the chart itself, is diurnal or nocturnal". (46 words)
And critically, Hand continues (1995, p4) as he illustrates the 3 calculations needed for every sect evaluation:
"Therefore we have three factors which can relate to the sect of a planet: 1) Whether the chart itself is diurnal or nocturnal. 2) The nature of the placement, that is (whether the planet is diurnally or nocturnally placed) 3) The sect of the sign (whether the sign is diurnal or nocturnal)". (49 words)
Hand (1995, p5) continues to introduce Hayz or Hayyiz:
"Similarly if a planet's sect is in accordance with the chart, its placement in the chart, and the sect of it sign, it is a quite powerful dignity called Hayz, Haim, or Aym all of which are Latin corruptions of the Arabic word Hayyiz". (44 words)
As for the importance of sect, Hand in the same book, points out repeatedly how sect placement alters a planet fundamentally (1995, p19):
"This example is interesting as a placement that might otherwise seem to be completely negative is salvaged by the correctness of sect placement". (23 words)
and here how it overcomes other dignity consideration (1995, pp 46-47)
"Strangely enough, like Hitler, Eleanor Roosevelt's chart features a planet in detriment which is also in Hayz. The effect is the same. The Sun in Libra is altered in its essential nature. It is forced to deal with the issues of Libra, agreement and compromise, rather than being its own, showy, solar self. But its being in Hayz makes its effects quantitatively powerful and and may serve also the inherent conflict between the nature of the Sun and Libra, and allow the Sun to work more easily in Libra". (89 words)
and again Hand displays the interaction of dignities, here proper sect placement allows a detrimented planet to triumph over a planet in domicile! (Eleanor Roosevelt's chart) (1995, p47):
"Only the sign supports the Moon's sect, although as Cancer, the support is considerable. The Moon is in trine to Mars, which is mostly out of sect. It is also square the Sun which is in Hayz. The Sun is likely to be stronger in that interaction, even though the Moon is in it's own sign and the Sun is debilitated by sign". (63 words)
Hand points out (1995, p19) how these terms and considerations were fairly diminished by Renaissance understanding:
"All of these serve to illustrate the fact that the sect of the planets was not unknown in the Renaissance. However for the most part the survival of the sect doctrine takes two forms. In most writers sect survives as a minor accidental dignity as in the doctrine of Hayz, which we see in Schoener's Opusculum Astrologicum". (57 words)
and if is not bad enough, he suggest more loss in the understanding of Hayz:
"In later works, about all one sees are occasional references to Hayz, and the acknowledgement without commentary or elucidation that all of the planets and signs are diurnal or nocturnal". (30 words)
Robert Hand (1995, p2) places sect in the dignity rank in Night and Day Planetary Sect in Astrology:
"This simple criterion (sect) affected the computation of life expectancy, the computation of most of the lots, the succession of planetary rulerships over time and the rulers of the triplicities. However, what was more important than any of these is that every planet, every aspect and every house position was interpreted differently according to whether the chart was of a day or a night birth". (64 words)
Hand continues to define the sect ruling planets in the same book (1995, p4):
"As already stated, a chart is diurnal if the Sun is above the horizon, i.e. in houses 7 through 12. The chart is nocturnal if the sun is below the horizon, i.e. in houses 1 through 6". Signs are diurnal or nocturnal. The diurnal signs are the same as those called masculine or positive, while the nocturnal signs are the same as those which are called feminine ones". (62 words)
In the same book, Hand continues to explain planetary placement diurnally or nocturnally independently of the diurnal or nocturnal state of the chart (1995, p4):
"A planet may be placed diurnally or nocturnally in a chart regardless of whether the planet is diurnal or nocturnal according to it's own nature, and also regardless of whether the sign in which the planet is located, or the chart itself, is diurnal or nocturnal". (46 words)
And critically, Hand continues (1995, p4) as he illustrates the 3 calculations needed for every sect evaluation:
"Therefore we have three factors which can relate to the sect of a planet: 1) Whether the chart itself is diurnal or nocturnal. 2) The nature of the placement, that is (whether the planet is diurnally or nocturnally placed) 3) The sect of the sign (whether the sign is diurnal or nocturnal)". (49 words)
Hand (1995, p5) continues to introduce Hayz or Hayyiz:
"Similarly if a planet's sect is in accordance with the chart, its placement in the chart, and the sect of it sign, it is a quite powerful dignity called Hayz, Haim, or Aym all of which are Latin corruptions of the Arabic word Hayyiz". (44 words)
As for the importance of sect, Hand in the same book, points out repeatedly how sect placement alters a planet fundamentally (1995, p19):
"This example is interesting as a placement that might otherwise seem to be completely negative is salvaged by the correctness of sect placement". (23 words)
and here how it overcomes other dignity consideration (1995, pp 46-47)
"Strangely enough, like Hitler, Eleanor Roosevelt's chart features a planet in detriment which is also in Hayz. The effect is the same. The Sun in Libra is altered in its essential nature. It is forced to deal with the issues of Libra, agreement and compromise, rather than being its own, showy, solar self. But its being in Hayz makes its effects quantitatively powerful and and may serve also the inherent conflict between the nature of the Sun and Libra, and allow the Sun to work more easily in Libra". (89 words)
and again Hand displays the interaction of dignities, here proper sect placement allows a detrimented planet to triumph over a planet in domicile! (Eleanor Roosevelt's chart) (1995, p47):
"Only the sign supports the Moon's sect, although as Cancer, the support is considerable. The Moon is in trine to Mars, which is mostly out of sect. It is also square the Sun which is in Hayz. The Sun is likely to be stronger in that interaction, even though the Moon is in it's own sign and the Sun is debilitated by sign". (63 words)
Hand points out (1995, p19) how these terms and considerations were fairly diminished by Renaissance understanding:
"All of these serve to illustrate the fact that the sect of the planets was not unknown in the Renaissance. However for the most part the survival of the sect doctrine takes two forms. In most writers sect survives as a minor accidental dignity as in the doctrine of Hayz, which we see in Schoener's Opusculum Astrologicum". (57 words)
and if is not bad enough, he suggest more loss in the understanding of Hayz:
"In later works, about all one sees are occasional references to Hayz, and the acknowledgement without commentary or elucidation that all of the planets and signs are diurnal or nocturnal". (30 words)
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Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
I'm not confused by the terms being used, Hand's book was written in 1995, when sect was something that still wasn't being used very often and many of the traditional texts we have today were still being translated. Of course, Hand was part of the team that was doing this through Project Hindsight.
That being said, the only thing that Hand and I disagree with is the importance of hayz and halb, and the quantitative vs qualitative property of sect. Hand uses poor wording choices that we have better words for now.
We call this "halb", which is a term I've used several times throughout my postings.
I learned about sect from Chris Brennan (who also worked at Project Hindsight for some time), and he has a good write up about sect here. Maybe he can help you out since I appear to be confused. (Though, to be fair, I did seem to get it incorrect that Mars prefers the feminine signs even though he's a masculine planet, this explains why he's said to rejoice in Scorpio. Doh!)
That being said, the only thing that Hand and I disagree with is the importance of hayz and halb, and the quantitative vs qualitative property of sect. Hand uses poor wording choices that we have better words for now.
We call this "halb", which is a term I've used several times throughout my postings.
I learned about sect from Chris Brennan (who also worked at Project Hindsight for some time), and he has a good write up about sect here. Maybe he can help you out since I appear to be confused. (Though, to be fair, I did seem to get it incorrect that Mars prefers the feminine signs even though he's a masculine planet, this explains why he's said to rejoice in Scorpio. Doh!)
tsmall
Premium Member
Hi, can anyone go into detail on sect interpretation? I'm particularly interested in out of sect effects and dispositorship.
I'm thinking along the lines of:
1. Two of three sect rulers are in sect and one isn't but is positively aspected by a sect ruler in sect. Is this 'a car that gets a flat tire, but discovers a spare in the boot'?
I'm guessing that what you mean here isn't sect rulers, since there are only two, the Sun as ruler of the day sect and the Moon as ruler of the night sect. Otherwise, the planets are either diurnal or nocturnal and in sect with the chart or not. We wouldn't for example say that Jupiter is a sect ruler.
To answer the next part of this question (provided that I correctly interpreted the first part
) this is where it becomes important to understand the planets where they are posited first and then to look at the aspects. As Kai points out, if this is an ill placed malefic this could be interpreted negatively. A key component to understanding sect though is that planets of the sect of the chart generally want to work with the native while planets out of sect will tend to work against him. So Saturn in a day chart below the horizon and debilitated could show struggles for the native, but could also show ways the native could bring harm/struggles to others.2. Sect rulers are well-placed but their dispositor is perhaps peregrine and definitely out of sect. Is this, 'the car is broken and you've got your thumb up at the side of the road?'
Not necessarily. Planets in houses have a more direct impact on those houses than rulers do. Planets well placed will also have a better go of seeing to their own rulerships. And as you know, it would take a whole chart to answer.
I think this is supposed to be that Mars is happy (joys) when the Sun is exalted. How that would work in a chart I still don't understand, since the joys themselves to my knowledge are not well understood except as possible origins on the meanings of houses.
Yes, if you mean for example Mercury in Pisces with Jupiter or Venus also in Pisces. Or an example from my daughter's chart, Jupiter in Virgo with Mercury in attendance.
I'm on a hunt to see which of my tricky placements can be 'bailed out'.
I know you have your chart in a few places, but as a discussion on sect and your chart traditionally, why don't you start a new thread here in the traditional forum? We don't get to do that often enough...(edit, nevermind, lol. I should learn to read farther before I comment.)
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
IF you state clearly WHICH 'two sect rulers' ARE in sect and which 'remaining sect ruler' IS NOT in sect' that would assist in providing an answer to the question!
i.e. a clear statement of the names of 'the two sect ruler planets' in question, as well as their sign and house location is required as well as the name of the 'planet that is the remaining sect ruler that is not in sect' AND its sign and house location would be much appreciated
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Thanks. With reference to that chart then byjove - you said:
That phrase is unclear. So, if you would then clarify by naming the three specific planets that are 'the three sect rulers' then that would clarify the question – many thanks