Saturn as a Cosmic Teacher

What about the Age-indicator explanation? I'm going to start a thread on HOW the Ages are determined, instead of what the Aquarian Age will mean for humanity. It's not a well-known topic. I'll be explaining an innovation of my own, which makes it easy to sort through the variety of start-dates for the Ages, which are quite confusing otherwise.

david starling said:

What about the Age-indicator explanation? I'm going to start a thread on HOW the Ages are determined, instead of what the Aquarian Age will mean for humanity. It's not a well-known topic. I'll be explaining an innovation of my own, which makes it easy to sort through the variety of start-dates for the Ages, which are quite confusing otherwise.

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Yes I got that altho I thought the age was indicated by the tilt of the earth axis. Maybe it's the same thing .

ardentika said:

Yes I got that altho I thought the age was indicated by the tilt of the earth axis. Maybe it's the same thing .

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Yes, the tilt is the reason we have seasons. The VP is the Sun's position at the beginning of Spring in the Northern Hemisphere. It wouldn't transit the sidereal zodiac though, if it weren't for Earth's "wobble" as it rotates. So, combining Earth's axial tilt with Earth's wobble, we get Earth's astrological indicator. It sets the context for the entire Earth-centered chart.

There are Age-degree generations, because the sidereal Age-indicator moves so slowly. Each generation is about 72 years, and has the same Age-sign and degree in everyone's Chart. Each Chart has it Aspected in its own way, and in its own House. Outwardly, an Age manifests as the aggregate result. Some Chart-configurations are better suited to a particular Age-sign and degree than others. So, if you're drawing sidereal Charts, I highly recommend including the sidereal Age-indicator as the "environmental" point.

david starling said:

There are Age-degree generations, because the sidereal Age-indicator moves so slowly. Each generation is about 72 years, and has the same Age-sign and degree in everyone's Chart. Each Chart has it Aspected in its own way, and in its own House. Outwardly, an Age manifests as the aggregate result. Some Chart-configurations are better suited to a particular Age-sign and degree than others. So, if you're drawing sidereal Charts, I highly recommend including the sidereal Age-indicator as the "environmental" point.

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Thats interesting and resonates. So how do I draw a chart with the age indicator ?

ardentika said:

Thats interesting and resonates. So how do I draw a chart with the age indicator ?

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Tropical or sidereal?

david starling said:

Tropical or sidereal?

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I suppose sidereal is more accurate ?

ardentika said:

I suppose sidereal is more accurate ?

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The setting is different for the tropical zodiac. The reason is, the Earth's tilt is already in use, locating the tropical Sign-boundaries. So, the tropical wheel rotates with the sidereal Age-indicator, and it always stays put at the 1st point of tropical Aries.
Instead of using Earth's tilt relative to the Sun, the tropical version utilizes the elliptical shape of Earth's orbit relative to the Sun. As in the sidereal case, Earth's wobble causes the transit, but it's Direct through the tropical zodiac, as opposed to the Retrograde movement of the sidereally placed Age-indicator. And, a tropical Age-degree generation is about 58 years, instead the sidereal 72 years.
Now I'm going to have to get on with starting the new Ages thread to fully explain the astronomy of the tropical version, along with what led to its discovery.
For now, I'll just say that it's currently at a median, or "Mean" location of 27 degrees 45 minutes of tropical Capricorn, Direct. So, this ongoing capoeira fight between Pluto and Saturn in late Cap has everything to do with the transition from the tropical Age of Capricorn into the tropical Age of Aquarius. Very crucial situation in the Age context.
The Retrograde sidereal Age of Pisces is far less crisis-ridden. The location of the sidereal Age-indicator in a sidereal zodiac is equivalent to the "ayanamsa", which is in early sidereal Pisces--but, exactly where is entirely dependent on how the individual siderealist sets the sidereal Sign-boundaries.

ardentika said:

I suppose sidereal is more accurate ?

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Short answer, no, not when it comes to mundane affairs. Sidereal is more about our spiritual orientation.
For example, Capitalism is easily relatable to an Age of Capricorn, but not to an Age of Pisces or an Age of Aquarius.

Hmm I guess that's one way to look at it. Then is this age indicator suitable for personal charts? And if we have not yet entered the age of aquarius or we are about to, then Capitalism makes sense. Plus Capitalism will fall down soon, imts inevitable.

To answer the OP: your question is rather... vague. If we want a statistic we got to have a definite criteria. What do you mean by "overcome Saturn's lessons and become a master of what Saturn represents"? "Lesson" can mean different things for different people. To one person, Saturn in Gemini is a call for purposeful communication, while to another it means an urge for more flexible thinking. Seems like we are having a problem with the definition of "lesson".


Also, it's actually difficult to isolate a planet and use it to judge an entire life progress. Literally every planet in our chart has a lesson to teach us, and ignoring them is fatal. Not to mention Saturn in two different charts can be situated in different houses and form different aspects even when they are in the same sign. There are just too many variations to do statistic.

ardentika said:

Hmm I guess that's one way to look at it. Then is this age indicator suitable for personal charts? And if we have not yet entered the age of aquarius or we are about to, then Capitalism makes sense. Plus Capitalism will fall down soon, imts inevitable.

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Speaking of capitalism, there was this little thing called "Communism" that was originally intended to be an opposition to capitalism. And we all know how it ended. According to David, we are only on our way to a new Age recently, so the time of Communism was still at the Age of Capricorn. I don't want to dive too deep into politics. I just wonder what the astrological component of that communism thing. Why didn't it succeed despite having a good concept? Was that because it had the misfortune of being born in the Capricorn Age.

How do you know where to put the age indicator if you don't know when the age began?

Did it begin with the discovery of Uranus and Franklin's kite? Or with the advent of the Sixth Sun in 2012?

And what does the Age have to do with me? I am its product and must live in my times, but other than that...?

greybeard said:

How do you know where to put the age indicator if you don't know when the age began?

Did it begin with the discovery of Uranus and Franklin's kite? Or with the advent of the Sixth Sun in 2012?

And what does the Age have to do with me? I am its product and must live in my times, but other than that...?

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[IMO] It's in your Chart as a major indicator. Its placement is by astronomy and astrology, not by intuition or mundane event. The Age can be sensed intuitively, and encourages the mundane events, instead of the other way around.

Most of the different start-dates for the Aquarian Age in a sidereal Chart are due to differing ayanamsas. A one-degree difference in Sign-placement causes a 71.6 difference as to when it begins. Those who use intuition and/or a mundane event to get the start-date, are deliberately setting the sidereal Sign-boundaries to make it so. But true siderealists are setting those boundaries by other means, then locating the Age-indicator (normally the Vernal Equinoctial Point), and calculating the year it will reach sidereal Aquarius. With the Aldebaran ayanamsa, the Vernal Point (VP) will currently reach sidereal Aquarius in 5 degrees X 71.6 years, which puts the Aquarian Age over 350 years in the future. The VP relative to Aldebaran Sign location reached 5 degrees sidereal Pisces in 2018, and is moving steadily Retrograde.

It's going to take some explaining as to why and where the Age-indicator is in a tropical Chart. I'm terms of the astronomical mechanics, it's similar to Black Lilith, in that it has both a Mean placement and a True placement. The True placement jumps back and and forth +/- 2 degrees relative to the Mean placement, which reached 27 degrees tropical Capricorn in 1975. At 58.1 years per degree of steady Direct-movement, it's now @ 27degrees 45minutes tropical Cap, with Pluto and Saturn nearing Conj. Fasten your safety-belts!

Gemini888 said:

To answer the OP: your question is rather... vague. If we want a statistic we got to have a definite criteria. What do you mean by "overcome Saturn's lessons and become a master of what Saturn represents"? "Lesson" can mean different things for different people. To one person, Saturn in Gemini is a call for purposeful communication, while to another it means an urge for more flexible thinking. Seems like we are having a problem with the definition of "lesson".


Also, it's actually difficult to isolate a planet and use it to judge an entire life progress. Literally every planet in our chart has a lesson to teach us, and ignoring them is fatal. Not to mention Saturn in two different charts can be situated in different houses and form different aspects even when they are in the same sign. There are just too many variations to do statistic.




Speaking of capitalism, there was this little thing called "Communism" that was originally intended to be an opposition to capitalism. And we all know how it ended. According to David, we are only on our way to a new Age recently, so the time of Communism was still at the Age of Capricorn. I don't want to dive too deep into politics. I just wonder what the astrological component of that communism thing. Why didn't it succeed despite having a good concept? Was that because it had the misfortune of being born in the Capricorn Age.

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It's an adversarial Age, so enemies must be demonized and fought against. In this Age, political power "grows out of the barrel of a gun", to quote Mao. Functional communism can't be forced through violence.
Notice the technology that resulted from the "Cold War", including the space station and the internet. That's with Saturn as Age-lord, so it's not all bad.

The Mean tropical Age-indicator, which has steady Direct-movement, will reach tropical Aquarius in 2149. It will reach 28 degrees tropical Capricorn in 2033, the same year the True Age-indicator makes first contact with tropical Aquarius in over 20,000 years. Then the True placement will jump back into Capricorn, due to the Moon orbiting the Earth. MUCH easier to track the Mean placement of the tropical Age-indicator than the True, because the True has to be calculated for each separate year based on calendar-date and time, one year to the next for Earth's Point of Perihelion. Unless someone comes up with software for that.

Well, there is no doubt in my mind that the human race has entered a new epoch in its history, unlike anything that has come before.

greybeard said:

Well, there is no doubt in my mind that the human race has entered a new epoch in its history, unlike anything that has come before.

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Yes, but it's the culminating result of the tropical Age-indicator placement in all of our Charts, which has been in Capricorn since the Dark Ages. Capricorn is an amazing Sign. The Aquarian Age will be amazing in its own way, when it finally takes full effect.
According to logical and historical pattern, Cardinal-sign Ages show full results at the end, whereas Fixed-sign Ages get off to an immediate start. Inevitable that the culmination of the Age of Capricorn is being confused as the onset of the Aquarian Age, when the tropical Age of Capricorn is an unknown unknown. The sidereal Age of Pisces can't explain the changes that we're going through in the mundane world.

ardentika said:

Hmm I guess that's one way to look at it. Then is this age indicator suitable for personal charts? And if we have not yet entered the age of aquarius or we are about to, then Capitalism makes sense. Plus Capitalism will fall down soon, imts inevitable.

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People make the world what it is. It's the aggregate response, which varies from one person to another, to the Age-indicator in all of our personal Charts, that characterizes the Age.
In other words, people make the Age what it is.

Of course but we are always influenced by energies.

And if we are at the end of age of Capricorn this means the Uranus/Neptune Capricorn must be extremely important for the culmination . What do you think ? Same with the current generation that's being born right now with the Pluto/Saturn conjunction in Capricorn . Quite interesting 🤔

ardentika said:

Of course but we are always influenced by energies.

And if we are at the end of age of Capricorn this means the Uranus/Neptune Capricorn must be extremely important for the culmination . What do you think ? Same with the current generation that's being born right now with the Pluto/Saturn conjunction in Capricorn . Quite interesting ��

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Yes, it's all coming together. I'm watching for when Saturn reaches Aquarius. It'll go in, then out, and back in again next year. Pluto in Aquarius will be monumental for the continuing transition. That's 2024 thru 2044. I count Age-degree generations using the Mean setting, so a new generation began in 1975 at 27 degrees, and a new generation will begin in 2033 at 28 degrees.

You're right, people make the Age what it is based on the Ages influence in their charts.