chiron and its transits

A

AMANDRIA

I know a little astrology, chiron is among those people I know either very much pay attention to it, or not at all. I near nothing past the basic mythology of chiron. I see others have discussed this but still have a hard time imagining what the transits would be like, depending on actual type aspect with a particular planet, or in a particular sign. I have chiron heading into my 11th house, that has a stellium sitting in it. So it will conjunct my merc, ven and sun so am curious about what to expect 1 and 2 I am not a fatalist so I know that there is a positive and a negative way that these things can play themselves out. I seek proactive ways of viewing astrology as one of the tools in life. Plus forewarned is forearmed!! :lol:

Amandria
 

AquariusMoon

Well-known member
Hi ~

I can give you some general info only.

You will have to synthesize everything that's going on in your chart. You can't really take one aspect and get the whole picture. For instance, right now Chiron is opposed to Saturn. If Chiron was conjunct your Sun in H11 and Saturn was opposed to Chiron, in H5 Leo, you would have to look at those things together and see how it fits in your life in addition to all the other transits going on in your chart.

Here are some keywords associated with Chiron: Teacher, guru, mentor, turning point, catalyst, bridge, link, passageway, holistic, balance, dependence to independence, therapy, wound.

I can tell you that in looking back I have seen Chiron connected in some way to major turning points in my life. The connection can be an aspect to a planet or even a conjunction to a cusp.

Major periods re Chiron is when transiting Chiron is square, trine, opposed to natal Chiron, and the Chiron Return at about age 50.

~ AquariusMoon
 

tikana

Well-known member
Aqua,

I think you are one of the coolest people on earth


However, i am not buying this Chiron thing..

Too wierd and strange

Amandria, JUST IGNORE CHIRON!

Your key planets are pluto, neptune, uranus, saturn, jupiter

the rest makes things more complicated

Thanks
Tik
 

AquariusMoon

Well-known member
tikana said:
Aqua,

I think you are one of the coolest people on earth


However, i am not buying this Chiron thing..

Too wierd and strange

Amandria, JUST IGNORE CHIRON!

Your key planets are pluto, neptune, uranus, saturn, jupiter

the rest makes things more complicated

Thanks
Tik

Thanks, Tik.

I think you're right, Chiron does complicate things for a new astrologer, but Baker just gave me a link to a great article by Zane Stein on the Chiron Return, which I realize I am just starting to go through right now. This article totally makes sense out of nonsense and has given me a great deal of clarity as to what is going on in my life, so I can't dismiss Chiron entirely at this point.

What I'm trying to say, Tik, is that I think when you're in your 30's it might be okay to dismiss Chiron, but when the Chiron Return comes it seems to be a big turning point. It's a time of making major decisions. Supposedly what happens at the Return sets the course for the future and paves the way for the 2nd Saturn Return. It seems to be about selflessness as opposed to selfishness. One is called upon to make a big choice that is not easy to make.

Chiron is a bridge (rainbow bridge, transformational bridge) from Saturn to Uranus. Saturn (Kronos) rules time. Chiron rules Chiros, the time outside of chronological time (no time). Uranus rules the future. You get a feel for your destiny at your Chiron Return, if that hasn't already happened, or you go straight to Oz. Just kidding.

I've talked to a few who have already gone through their Chiron Return and it had a major impact on them. Judging by that I'd have to say that the Chiron separating square, the Chiron opposition and the Chiron approaching square are also important turning points in one's life.

So, Amandria, how old are you? What stage of life are you at? Where is your natal Chiron? What house and what degree? What degrees are your H11 planets at?

~ AM
 

baker

Well-known member
Dear Amandria, Tikana and Aq Moon: hum. Typical really, to downplay the Chiron, but I completely agree when Tikana said it's a little too wierd and strange, but not about ignoring it. There is no way, before I was 40 I could have comprehended it and it's influence but believe me, I wish I would/could have. If you ignore it, it WILL kick you in your heart. The inability to accept the Chiron influence is, I think, pretty much explained by Martin Lass: (submitted only for consideration, not trying to shove it down anybody's throat): Lass has such a grip on the essence of Chiron.



In a sense, we are required to repeat a grade of school.However, the likelihood of truly beginning in-depth work on our subsequent Healing and evolution of consciousness definitely diminishes with time.This is due to our age, to the general level of crystallization of our personality and to associated emotional habits, masks, protective mechanisms and ingrained escape routes.This is not to say that it is impossible.It simply becomes more difficult over time and we become less inclined to bother with it.

In this case, the Chiron Return can be, paradoxically, a time that we hardly notice due to the success of our long-standing patterns of avoidance and evasion.Conversely, it can be a time of monumental regret.The Chiron Return can open the Pandora's Box of our core Wounds and long-standing unresolved issues.Unable to deal with or answer the tortured callings that arise from our fragmented consciousness, we go into crisis or, alternatively, even deeper into retreat.Only in the final moments of death, maybe many years later, will we have an opportunity to feel Healing and sense the Truth of the Love around us and in us.It is only then that the stranglehold of our personality mechanisms finally relaxes with the weakening of our physical vehicle.I venture to suggest that, if you are reading this book and have gotten this far in it, you will not have to fear the aforementioned scenario!

Tikanak, I'm a peace loving Libra, four planets in Libra, extremely nonconfrontational, so please don't take that the wrong way, just spreading the Chiron healing vibe sweetie :wink: Peace and Love!
 

foshow

Member
yo baker, i completely agree.

i also really think that the time of chiron's greatest influence depends upon the sign/house it is in someone's natal chart, as well as age.

for example, and i'll use myself for lack of any other example (sometimes i hate that there's not more information about chiron in the world!). in my chart, chiron is in gemini in the 7th house. usually, for me, that translates to an intense doubt of my mental and communication abilities. going through grade school, middle school, high school, was incredibly hard because i felt like i had to constantly wrestle with this wound instead of learning acceptance to heal it.

i also wasn't all that into astrology. but later on, when i happened upon information about chiron i ate it up like it was candy (an inherent gemini trait is a incredible thirst for knowledge--especially if the subject is engaging). in fact, i read in an article that for people with chiron in gemini the healing process is ultimately an enjoyable one since gemini loves new experiences and knowledge.

who knows, i'm just offering a couple of thoughts for conversations sake. what are everyone else's chiron signs/and or houses chiron is in?
 
A

AMANDRIA

response to the degree of chiron

So, Amandria, how old are you? What stage of life are you at? Where is your natal Chiron? What house and what degree? What degrees are your H11 planets at?

I am 40 years old. My natal chiron is at 16 degree's Pisces, 12th house. Saturn sits there 2 but at 5 degrees. My sun is at 21 degrees aqua, venus 6 dgs and merc at 11 degrees both aqua. also 11th house. Neptune is at 16 degrees just having run over my venus and merc. Uranus is seperating from my natal saturn in pisces now its at 9 degrees/my natal saturn is at 5. natal chiron is at 16, and uranus is headed for it. Hope I have given enough info. Oh and Saturn is in 5th house, and will eventually oppose my ven, merc and sun in 11th house. Information overload? Wanted to make sure I got everything with good ole merc rx.

:) Amandria
 

baker

Well-known member
Foshow: good for you, great to see someone Chiron-aware as you are. There isn't enough out there, I agree, to gobble up, but the stuff that is there, I like have to re-read it 4 times or more for it to sink in, it's so heavy. But, so good for my soul.

Amandria: tough placement for your Chiron, but not overcome-able. No wonder you are asking about it now, thank goodness, before your return: In the 12th house it shows a person who does more for others than theirselves, maybe even a compusltion to try to take crae of the poor, sick and unfortunate around them, but neglect your own needs, you yourself may be in need, or seem to be, and don't get this wrong, but most people with this placement tend to experience one frequently self-caused "problem" after another. This placement tends to make a person feel tired and fatigued, be sure to get plenty of rest. Chiron in Pisces means you have to make an extra effort to get rid of your unearned guilt, and stop wandering the world looking for people to "save," at least not until you have saved yourself first and be careful of a tendency to be a victim cause you do have the ability to help everyone else and doing that could be an excellent antidote for dealing with the negative side of this placement

Take care!
 

AquariusMoon

Well-known member
AquariusMoon said:
Chiron is a bridge (rainbow bridge, transformational bridge) from Saturn to Uranus. Saturn (Kronos) rules time. Chiron rules Chiros, the time outside of chronological time (no time). Uranus rules the future. You get a feel for your destiny at your Chiron Return, if that hasn't already happened, or you go straight to Oz. Just kidding.

I have something to add that is making sense now after I read the article that refers to this part. I left it out because it didn't make sense, and now it does. This is it. Chiron is the bridge between Saturn and Uranus. If you cross the bridge from Saturn successfully, whatever the bridge is, and you make it to Uranus, you leave the Saturnian past behind forever and achieve freedom from anxiety of the Uranian furture. The key is to open up and embrace the wounded parts of yourself, your new reality, whatever that might be, before the Saturn Return arrives.

~ AM
 

baker

Well-known member
Quite well put, Aquarius Moon. :D

Not quite sure I put it here or posted in the other ... who knows, mercury rx, at any rate, there is always a Saturn return after and the Chiron return completely affects that, so one simply must look at the Chiron to know the subsequent Saturn, they go hand in hand, yeah, cross that bridge


where is that confounded bridge .... Led Zeppelin (apparently they knew)
 

Lapis

Well-known member
tikana said:
Aqua,

I think you are one of the coolest people on earth


However, i am not buying this Chiron thing..

Too wierd and strange

Amandria, JUST IGNORE CHIRON!

Your key planets are pluto, neptune, uranus, saturn, jupiter

the rest makes things more complicated

Thanks
Tik


kickinglaugh0ta.gif

Hi Tikana! That's how I feel about a lot of the new-to-me asteroids, balls of dirty space ice flying around, comets, and numerous other weird stuff suddenly flying into our little reality every few days it seems! You just ignore Chiron for now if you want......for now that's what I'm doing with some of the new dirty space ice thingies! :wink:
 

Lapis

Well-known member
Chiron

I have Chiron conjunct my Sun so I personally find the 'Wounded Healer' very interesting. Both of them are natally in Capricorn in 10 which means I carry a lot of Saturn energy. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just connecting it all in with Chiron as the 'Bridge' from Saturn to Uranus and beyond.

Hi AquariusMoon :D

We were talking about this Chiron business elsewhere but - here's my mini understanding about how this process works now. I know that you know all of this already.......I'm just sharing.

Saturn deals with physical reality and taking responsibility for what all we manifest into it. Structure within 3D physical reality. I'd guess that as we get closer to our 2nd Saturn Returns this entire business will become far more obvious and conscious and there's a big need to clean up any and all leftover issues from Uranus Opposition and also Chiron Return! Tall order.

Chiron functions exceedingly well outside of linear 3D time (Saturn) and He effortlessly deposits us out past the Rings, the limits of physical reality. (Personally I prefer The Big Dark Dudes Hula Hoops over Rings but....) I think the 'Uranus Future' mentioned, is referring to Uranus Return at 84 and how incredible this is, how so often it's when many break free and finally physically leave Earth (Saturn's realm) completely. Death of the mortal self, the Chiron archetype playing itself out. The big scary thing most folks are terrified of. So I'm guessing that if, IF we deal with our Chiron wounds, our having wounded others, and then try to heal the whole mess - we reach some new level of clearness where we literally carry higher energies (Uranus and others possibly) in our physical (Saturn) structural bodies.......we no longer carry within us fear of our mortal deaths. Chiron's resolved His painful situation.

So if we hang around until Uranus Return, we've previously done the 'Work' and have 'healed' in many ways , we have the opportunity to 'die a conscious death' if that's what Uranus Return calls us to do then. We can leave Saturn's physical realm with crystal clear bodies and hearts and NO FEAR and travel with Uranina higher understandings.
 
A

AMANDRIA

then the next natural question is how to bridge/saturn uranu

Next logical step is how to use this so called bridge from saturn to uranus. Examples? How do we do this? its not enough to say this is what we need to do. This is like saying well I need to fix the carbuerator of car...with no manual or past experience. So please explain how to cross this bridge from saturn(guessing fears) to Uranus(freedom). What are we to expect with a uranus opposition looks like its coming in my direction.

Thanks guys,
Amandria
 

AquariusMoon

Well-known member
Hi. I sent you a link that is pretty straightforward, and so I hope that it helps. "Chiron and the Healing Journey" by Melanie Reinhart is a book that is mentioned a lot. I have "Chiron: Transforming Bridge Between the Inner and Outer Planets," by Barbara Hand Clow. She's Robert Hand's sister. It's much different than the link I sent you. I find the link gives very practical advice. Perhaps you will want to visit these authors' web sites.

With all these upcoming Chiron contacts in H11, Saturn opp in H5, they say you'll be getting Uranian insights to deal with any obstacles that come up. Since you're so aware of this transit, you'll notice things starting to unfold. H11 deals with groups, friends, hopes, wishes, dreams. You'll be working on challenges associated with those things, or some kind of teaching.

The bridge I was talking about refers to the Chiron Return at about age 50. That's completely different than your transit. I'm just trying to figure it out and just discussing. There's very little written about it. You don't have to worry about the CR yet anyway. You'll be busy dealing with the H11/5 axis opp Saturn. You'll be working on getting the opposites to work together and not see-sawing back and forth.

The link I sent you says that Chiron is a little bit like Saturn in that there is a challenge, but you're not dealing with a fear or bad luck like with transiting Saturn, which is different than natal Saturn. With Chiron, it may be an insecurity or some kind of wound. I keep hearing people talk about Chiron + teaching, or a wound of some kind, regret.

In the link I sent you, it says Chiron shows something that you can teach others, but you can't do it yourself yet, so you have to keep trying until you get it right. Making the same mistake over and over, I keep hearing this about Chiron too. For example, in H2 maybe it's that one doesn't manage their money well, they keep squandering their financial resources. It sounds like it's an area of life where one keeps blowing it repeatedly. Can you relate? You can see in others how not to blow it, but you keep blowing it. Do as I say, not as I do.

After you read the link, please let me know what you think, if it's starting to make sense to you.

~ AM
 

AquariusMoon

Well-known member
Re: Chiron

Lapis said:
We were talking about this Chiron business elsewhere but - here's my mini understanding about how this process works now. I know that you know all of this already.......I'm just sharing.

Saturn deals with physical reality and taking responsibility for what all we manifest into it. Structure within 3D physical reality. I'd guess that as we get closer to our 2nd Saturn Returns this entire business will become far more obvious and conscious and there's a big need to clean up any any all leftover issues from Uranus Opposition and also Chiron Return! Tall order.

Chiron functions exceedingly well outside of linear 3D time (Saturn) and He effortlessly deposits us out past the Rings, the limits of physical reality. (Personally I prefer The Big Dark Dudes Hula Hoops over Rings but....) I think the 'Uranus Future' mentioned, is referring to Uranus Return at 84 and how incredible this is, how so often it's when many break free and finally physically leave Earth (Saturn's realm) completely. Death of the mortal self, the Chiron archetype playing itself out. The big scary thing most folks are terrified of. So I'm guessing that if, IF we deal with our Chiron wounds, our having wounded others, and then try to heal the whole mess - we reach some new level of clearness where we literally carry higher energies (Uranus and others possibly) in our physical (Saturn) structural bodies.......we no longer carry within us fear of our mortal deaths. Chiron's resolved His painful situation.

Lapis ~

Hi! I was hoping you'd join in. I'm having a Mercury rx moment. I am confused about the CR. Can you clarify - is it 3-D, emotional or spiritual/transformational, a mixture, or all of the above? Maybe it can be many things to many people. Some associate illness or disease with their CR, and I thought earlier (in another thread) you were only talking about issues in which there may be regrets or guilt trips and needing to get rid of that kind of baggage. Clow doesn't talk at all about physical 3-D things in relation to Chiron from what I've seen. In my mind I was relating 3-D things to Saturn only, so was thinking that if a person was evolved in a Chironic way, that there would be no need to mention Saturnian 3-D issues as the person would be above or have evolved beyond those types of problems, would automatically "take care of business" so to speak.

~ AM
 

Amazon1963

Well-known member
May I butt in? New at reading/understanding charts here. I have just become aware that I even had a Chiron in my chart. So, looked up all interpretations for it in the 3rd house, where mine is placed. Pretty much summed up as follows:

Chiron in the Third House
If you don't have any brothers or sisters, you may experience this Chiron placement as a lack, a hole in your life. If you do, then there could be continual problems with at least one sibling. This is a good placement for a voice coach or speech therapist. It is likely that you will be able to teach others to speak better than you do. This placement tends to increase the chance of communication problems of one sort or another. No, it does not guarantee a speech defect. Instead, there could be problems with making oneself understood. In some cases, this could indicate that one wasn't listened to as a child. That could trigger a lifelong quest to "make others listen to me." However, no matter how much they do, there is frequently a feeling that "they are still not listening." The problem is that no matter how much they listen to you now, it doesn't get rid of the pain you felt in childhood when they didn't. Mercury/Chiron stress aspects are likely to produce the same result. Recognizing this is a first step to leaving the pain behind.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?...d=or1filewvmrJb-u1079284496&lang=e&gm=a1&ast=

I did stutter as a child and the condition was due to psychological issues not biological. I have been aware in the past where I felt as though I wasnt being 'heard', either by parents or authority figures. Maturity and wisdom has taught me however, that most 'hear' what you have to say if its spoken with confidence and in terms they can relate to or understand. In fact, I've learned they 'hear' you just fine, they just dont want to 'hear' what you have to say.

I never really considered any of this a 'wound' but it has held me back in some respects, ie, low self confidence in speaking. Through learning about myself and overall improvement in 'how' I communicate verbally and with body language has resolved most of the Chiron aspect in my natal house as it pertains to the above interpretation.

Also, the part about siblings, I have a younger sibling. We are night and day, total polar opposites. This along with family dynamics issues forged a distance in our emotional relationship. I have found it could be a continual problem but I simply refuse to participate in it. Keep at a distance and dont share any of my personal concerns, its not right but its peaceful. She and I have agreed to disagree on most subjects (she has issues getting along with most people) and get along when it comes to problem solving within the family structure. That works for us.

I found your messages about Chiron interesting, even though I dont comprehend half of what is being discussed. I just wanted to share what I have learned and how I have found some 'healing'.

Thanks for 'hearing' me!

Amazon1963
 

Lapis

Well-known member
Amazon1963,

Hearing you loud and clear, and communicated very well. I think from what you shared, you've described some Chiron in 3 issues very well. It also sounds like you've done some major healing work too. Well done!

What I find interesting is how we hide, bury, and become blind to many of the 'wounds' we all carry around in us. Sometimes its harder rediscovering, excavating some of them than it is then to deal/heal them! Because of this we often live much of our lives being profoundly affected and in many cases, controlled by these Chironic type of wounds unknowingly. And because of this we then in turn wound others (in varying ways) and the cycle goes on and on until we get wise enough to dig deeper in ourselves. It sounds like you were able to do this with some of your 3rd house issues.
 

Lapis

Well-known member
AquariusMoon,

Hi! I have' Mercury rx' ALL the time so I can relate :) To answer your question......IMO all of the above! Here's some Clow.

"At age 50, we are physically and mentally prepared for fusion with the spirit, the mysterious nonphysical realm of all that is. Up to age 30, when our Saturn Return occures, we are realizing the structural basis for life. At mid-life---Uranus Opposition---we mature the emotions. Then, at age 50, Chiron Return heralds the time for our full spiritual awakening."

"Chiron brings spirit into matter, and Chiron cycles rule the timing of spiritual enlightenment......."

"Astrologically, Chiron travels around the birth chart conjuncting every panet in the chart by age 50, and as it does so, a crisis over the issue of that planet always is very evident. Thus, during this time, Chiron has created a crisis about each significant planetary archetype, such as using power with Mars or expanding ourselves with Jupiter.Those archetypal processes have been successively transmuted, causing a much more spiritual outlook on life to gradually emerge......."


From Barbara Hand Clow's "Liquid Light of Sex: Kundalini, Astrology, and the Key Life Transitions"

Just last night I had another of my lifelong nightmares about being chased by some male stranger trying to kill me. This sorry archetypal **** has been going on for me since childhood and I am getting better with it! :wink: Point is that we're never finished and I feel we'll be 'healing' something for the rest of our lives. Especially now at the end of the Mayan Calendar and Age changes! With my 0 degrees Pisces ASC, the whole past patriarchal cycle with its less than warm and fuzzy feelings towards the female, is something I've been trying to fix/heal within myself evidently. Hence the recurring nightmares. I hope this post makes a bit more sense about Chiron, his Return and even past it.

[Edited part of quote from B.Hand's article. Only 100 words are accepted. copy right breach otherwise.mod.]
 
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A

AMANDRIA

didn't get the mail/links you sent sorry

loved the note, I am glad you mentioned the saturn opp all my natal planets in 11th house, this alone I am not sure what to expect. Add in that chiron will be crossing over these same points....heck Neptune is currently transiting my 11th house as well....what it all means? I will be darned if I understand with Neptune I read words, like fantasy, spiritualism, compassion and sometimes martyr, escapism, drugs etc. throw in the chiron with saturn opposition and it going over merc, ven, sun...I am lost, lol. Still to understand it, and to have a plan on making the best of it is my ultimate goal.
 
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