conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
This is a thread that is focused on generational & familial astrology, although it comes from it from a different perspective.
I was having a conversation with moonkat about her adopted family, and the uncommon position that they are currently in. She indicated to me that her dad and brother are the last family members with their peculiar surname (apparently its very rare), and after these two males have passed the specific family line will become extinct, and along with it this special last name.
Particularly we were discussing her father and how his life was full of tragedy and how it seemed like a pall of death was continuously over his head, as if to drive home that he was in the midst of wrapping up or ending something significant.
Moonkat gave me a brief background of his history
As if we were on a psychic hotline, a couple of days later moonkat was contacted by her father and he came "out of left field" stating that he wanted to write about his family lineage. He also clarified to her that he did actually have a couple of aunts who had children, although they do not share his last name and were also decades older than him. His family name will still end with his son.
But at this point you are probably wondering, if he had a son can't he just continue the family line with children of his own? The answer to that is that this man has a lot of obstacles in his way and is not likely to ever have any children.
By Moonkat's account -
If the difficulty of the conception wasn't enough, then the child would be wrought with conditions that makes it for him nigh impossible to live a normal life. And unfortunately this seems to include any chances at romance and building a family of his own.
These days, the father spends the majority of his time watching his son play video games. The father also has a history of self-harm and depression, but on the other hand is very intelligent with a prodigious memory - I've been told that he can quote chapter and verse passages that he read from his high school days.
Astrologically speaking, is it possible for us to see the ending of the family line in either of these individuals' charts? Does the natal chart have encoded in it the genetic legacy & origin of a family? Can an "origin chart" be reverse engineered by looking at the ending of a familial line? What can a single chart say about multi-generational patterns? Can it say anything about that at all?
Father's chart
https://i.imgur.com/Rq1imq3.jpg
Brother's chart
https://i.imgur.com/oG6k4B2.jpg
Here are the charts of the two "last men". The Father's chart looks like one that is more befitting of "the end". Very apparent is that his MC/IC axis is on the 29th degree of fixed signs Scorpio and Taurus, with the 29th degree of Taurus signifying "permanent endings". The IC is one's legacy, family and the grave.
His nodal axis across the ASC-DSC axis is also descriptive of one who is coming from a place of "others" (SN-DSC) to a place of "self" (NN-ASC). His is a path of developing individuality and independence. Where he comes from (SN) is also conjunct Pluto which on the one hand can indicate that where he is coming from is dying or going underground. This configuration also tells the story of the death of his best friend and how that shocked him into closing himself off from the world and embracing a more loner existence.
The rulerships of his nodal axis is also telling. The SN is ruled by the Sun in the 12th house. This house has significations toward wider karmic cycles and the "collective unconscious". It's a house of bondage, isolation and anguish. It is a house of "summing up" as the accumulated experiences are distilled and generalized in such a way as to be transformed into collective wisdom or those mythical/spiritual insights that remain alive and relevant for humanity all the time, everywhere. The Capricorn Sun/Chiron conjunct in the 12th is gloomy, but the potential for deep wisdom and insight is there, born from a life that constantly challenges and undermines the ego as it is constantly shown the ways it is inadequate and not as in control as it would like to be. The connection between the 7th house of others/intimate partnerships and the 12th house of anguish, the collective and karma/moksha is integral to this man's destiny.
Since this is an introduction I will stop there and briefly look at the chart of the brother. This one doesn't strike me as a chart of finality, but there are still some interesting patterns I spot. His nodal axis is awfully close to the end of the zodiac at 28 Virgo/Pisces with the NN pointing toward the ground (Imum Coeli). In a way, this does show the potential of his birth to be that of an ending.
An important configuration in his map is the Uranus opp. Chiron at the bendings (square the nodes) of the chart. Chiron in the 7th shows "wounding" in the relationship sphere, while Uranus in the 1st can show an erratic and stubbornly independent personality. Chiron in Gemini may also show problems with communication and the proper relating with others, and in the 7th house, this becomes even more of an issue. This could show his various mental disorders and the hampering that this does on his ability to become independent, as well as his ability to take part in one-on-one intimate partnerships. This config. has a direct bearing on his life outcomes (contacts to his nodes) and may be the drivers to the completion of his destiny (SN in 10th/NN in 4th).
Apart from the "where one is coming from" view of the south node, there is also the more traditional view of where one finds difficulty. For this chart it is the 10th house and indeed, his reputation has been tarnished in most places as he is seen as a disruptive influence that others rather not deal with. As well, his employment options aren't great although he does currently have a job.
The Mars/Pluto square Moon shows up quite apparently in his personality as he has displayed explosive outbursts, abusive tendencies and he constantly needs to be placated as the family rather not find out if he will make good on his threats. While the effect on the mentality is obvious, I wonder what this configuration may say about the family and the wider legacy that he finds himself in (Mars/Pluto is on the 12th house cusp. Moon is general Significator of Mom & family). There is a much more speculative consideration that I have in mind that this man could have his ascendant at the 29th degree of Scorpio (which would mean that his father and him have the their angles in conjunction), but moonkat has implored me that his birthtime is accurate.
These are no means the complete analysis of these natal charts, and anyone can feel free to jump in with what they see as pertinent placements to the phenomena (and if they don't agree about these charts being the end, then they can state why). Persons can also introduce other charts that they think may be pertinent.
I am interested in every and all viewpoints and opinions on this aspect of family and generational astrology. You are also more than welcome to introduce any resources or authors who made a study of the ending of family lines, or anything that you think would be even remotely related or tangential to the topic at hand.
I was having a conversation with moonkat about her adopted family, and the uncommon position that they are currently in. She indicated to me that her dad and brother are the last family members with their peculiar surname (apparently its very rare), and after these two males have passed the specific family line will become extinct, and along with it this special last name.
Particularly we were discussing her father and how his life was full of tragedy and how it seemed like a pall of death was continuously over his head, as if to drive home that he was in the midst of wrapping up or ending something significant.
Moonkat gave me a brief background of his history
His mother had Alzheimer's. His dad had a blood clot and was in recovery in the hospital. The day before he died, the doctor said, he's definitely going to make a full recovery. He died the next day from an infection.
He had 5 aunts and uncles, siblings of his parents. None had children. They grew up in the great depression and lived frugally to say the least. The family estate was a large house built by his maternal great great grandfather.
When his mother passed away, he sold the estate. It was torn down and turned into two houses on Long Island. His maternal grandmother lived with him and frequently saw an astrologer. His father was a NYC policeman.
As if we were on a psychic hotline, a couple of days later moonkat was contacted by her father and he came "out of left field" stating that he wanted to write about his family lineage. He also clarified to her that he did actually have a couple of aunts who had children, although they do not share his last name and were also decades older than him. His family name will still end with his son.
But at this point you are probably wondering, if he had a son can't he just continue the family line with children of his own? The answer to that is that this man has a lot of obstacles in his way and is not likely to ever have any children.
By Moonkat's account -
My brother, his son, is developmentally challenged, with Asperger's, Bipolar, Clinical Depression, ADHD, discalculia, dyslexia, etc. He will never be independent. My parents have created a trust for him to live off of.
He is a miracle child. When my mother and father were dating, she had an ovarian cyst the size of a grapefruit that burst one of her arteries and destroyed her ovaries. The doctors said she would be barren. She collapsed in front of my father as he was leaving and he took her to the hospital and she survived.
They were about to try in vitro fertilization. It was scheduled for the week they found out they were pregnant. It was a difficult pregnancy. She was on bed rest for 8 months.
If the difficulty of the conception wasn't enough, then the child would be wrought with conditions that makes it for him nigh impossible to live a normal life. And unfortunately this seems to include any chances at romance and building a family of his own.
These days, the father spends the majority of his time watching his son play video games. The father also has a history of self-harm and depression, but on the other hand is very intelligent with a prodigious memory - I've been told that he can quote chapter and verse passages that he read from his high school days.
Astrologically speaking, is it possible for us to see the ending of the family line in either of these individuals' charts? Does the natal chart have encoded in it the genetic legacy & origin of a family? Can an "origin chart" be reverse engineered by looking at the ending of a familial line? What can a single chart say about multi-generational patterns? Can it say anything about that at all?
Father's chart
https://i.imgur.com/Rq1imq3.jpg
Brother's chart
https://i.imgur.com/oG6k4B2.jpg
Here are the charts of the two "last men". The Father's chart looks like one that is more befitting of "the end". Very apparent is that his MC/IC axis is on the 29th degree of fixed signs Scorpio and Taurus, with the 29th degree of Taurus signifying "permanent endings". The IC is one's legacy, family and the grave.
His nodal axis across the ASC-DSC axis is also descriptive of one who is coming from a place of "others" (SN-DSC) to a place of "self" (NN-ASC). His is a path of developing individuality and independence. Where he comes from (SN) is also conjunct Pluto which on the one hand can indicate that where he is coming from is dying or going underground. This configuration also tells the story of the death of his best friend and how that shocked him into closing himself off from the world and embracing a more loner existence.
The rulerships of his nodal axis is also telling. The SN is ruled by the Sun in the 12th house. This house has significations toward wider karmic cycles and the "collective unconscious". It's a house of bondage, isolation and anguish. It is a house of "summing up" as the accumulated experiences are distilled and generalized in such a way as to be transformed into collective wisdom or those mythical/spiritual insights that remain alive and relevant for humanity all the time, everywhere. The Capricorn Sun/Chiron conjunct in the 12th is gloomy, but the potential for deep wisdom and insight is there, born from a life that constantly challenges and undermines the ego as it is constantly shown the ways it is inadequate and not as in control as it would like to be. The connection between the 7th house of others/intimate partnerships and the 12th house of anguish, the collective and karma/moksha is integral to this man's destiny.
Since this is an introduction I will stop there and briefly look at the chart of the brother. This one doesn't strike me as a chart of finality, but there are still some interesting patterns I spot. His nodal axis is awfully close to the end of the zodiac at 28 Virgo/Pisces with the NN pointing toward the ground (Imum Coeli). In a way, this does show the potential of his birth to be that of an ending.
An important configuration in his map is the Uranus opp. Chiron at the bendings (square the nodes) of the chart. Chiron in the 7th shows "wounding" in the relationship sphere, while Uranus in the 1st can show an erratic and stubbornly independent personality. Chiron in Gemini may also show problems with communication and the proper relating with others, and in the 7th house, this becomes even more of an issue. This could show his various mental disorders and the hampering that this does on his ability to become independent, as well as his ability to take part in one-on-one intimate partnerships. This config. has a direct bearing on his life outcomes (contacts to his nodes) and may be the drivers to the completion of his destiny (SN in 10th/NN in 4th).
Apart from the "where one is coming from" view of the south node, there is also the more traditional view of where one finds difficulty. For this chart it is the 10th house and indeed, his reputation has been tarnished in most places as he is seen as a disruptive influence that others rather not deal with. As well, his employment options aren't great although he does currently have a job.
The Mars/Pluto square Moon shows up quite apparently in his personality as he has displayed explosive outbursts, abusive tendencies and he constantly needs to be placated as the family rather not find out if he will make good on his threats. While the effect on the mentality is obvious, I wonder what this configuration may say about the family and the wider legacy that he finds himself in (Mars/Pluto is on the 12th house cusp. Moon is general Significator of Mom & family). There is a much more speculative consideration that I have in mind that this man could have his ascendant at the 29th degree of Scorpio (which would mean that his father and him have the their angles in conjunction), but moonkat has implored me that his birthtime is accurate.
These are no means the complete analysis of these natal charts, and anyone can feel free to jump in with what they see as pertinent placements to the phenomena (and if they don't agree about these charts being the end, then they can state why). Persons can also introduce other charts that they think may be pertinent.
I am interested in every and all viewpoints and opinions on this aspect of family and generational astrology. You are also more than welcome to introduce any resources or authors who made a study of the ending of family lines, or anything that you think would be even remotely related or tangential to the topic at hand.