Saturn and Mars malefic planets?! Not in my case

The reason I got interested in astrology is that some 2.5 years ago an astrologer did my natal chart analysis and he told me so many horrible things about the position of Saturn and Mars in my chart, it literary sounded like was doomed for life. At first I really got frightened by the things he said and then I said to myself that it wasn't me he was talking about, my life path was totally different.

So I started hitting astrology literature and all sorts of sources related to Saturn and Mars and started analyzing their aspects in relation to my life and found out that they were in fact very beneficial. I feel that position of Saturn and Mars in my chart, along with their aspects are some kind of cosmic blessing and here's the proof.

On a very basic level, yes, the position of Saturn points out that I was abused as a child, my father (Aries Sun, Taurus ASC, Libra Moon) was a very violent man, he used to beat me a lot, but Mars gave me an iron construction instead of a skeleton so I endured everything. I was 6 years old and when I realized that I was all alone, my mother (Virgo Sun, Gemini ASC, Pisces Moon) didn't care about me much, she was a self-made martyr Virgo, instead of a divorce she was killing herself with work - some people drink to forget, she was working to forget.

So as soon as I learned to read and write I joined the library - books became my best friends till this very day. So while my mother was killing herself with hard labor, I was "killing" myself with books. In addition, I was a straight A student throughout my education, from Elementary to University. Saturn trine Sun gave me such a discipline that there wasn't a single task I couldn't fulfill.

Saturn gave me patience, wisdom, discipline, self control and Mars backed me up with the iron construction, iron will and forever running streams of energy. I became vegan at the age of 17 (I'm 38 at the moment and still I'm vegan), never touched alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, I workout each day for 30 min and love extreme sports. I'm perfectly healthy, I don't remember when was the last time I got ill. And I look very young as well. Words like depression, melancholy, fear, frustration, don't even exist in my vocabulary. So Saturn trine Sun - pure cosmic blessing!

Saturn conjunct MC made me very goal oriented, ambitious, good planner, organizer. I left home very early - no one has ever helped me, I've been supporting myself all along.

There's another aspect/planetary position that I find a cosmic blessing as well - conjunction between Uranus and Mercury in Libra my first house. I must say that, unlike most of women, I got interested in technology very early in life, so I became an IT engineer. I'm absolutely fascinated by technology and cybernetics and hardware and I have so many revolutionary ideas that people sometimes find them hard to follow.

According to "my astrologer" the position of my Moon in the 10th house suggests that I'm heavily influenced by my mother, but again in my case, that statement doesn't hold water, so to speak. My mother and I, apart from the fact we have never been close, has never had any influence on me, in fact we are totally different. She was extremely feminine, she loved money, fancy and expensive clothes and make-up; on the other hand I literary hate all of that - I'm very careful with money, I'm almost as stingy as Uncle Scrooge , I have never wore a skirt or dress or high heals in my life, never wore make-up, jewelry.

Generally, I have a problem with women - I don't understand them, somehow I can never find a common ground with any woman I meet. On the other hand I get along with men extremely well, my best friend is a guy (double Scorpio). I guess my masculine Martian energy is very strong, and since my Venus has risen a little bit after the Sun, I think her influence is totally "burnt" by the Sun + she is in detriment. I don't fell Venusian energies at all.

So all in all, although my Saturn is retrograde and is in detriment, it gave me nothing but beneficial energies. It is my only connection with earth elements, since my chart lacks them. It gave me a lot of Capricornian traits.

And all those stories about Scorpios and sexuality, well I must say it looks like that part was surgically removed from my mindset at birth, I hate sex and I find it repulsive - Saturn made an ascetic out of me.

My biggest problem and a huge stone in my eye is the position of Chiron in my 7th house, and Saturn squares it and the whole 1st house oppose it - THE OTHERS are my biggest problem, all of my relations with other people are bound to fail. People like me a lot because I'm very friendly and talkative but after a while I feel trapped by their emotions and need to break free and run away. And that's where Saturn doesn't help me at all, not even 0.01%.

Well what do you think?

Mars and Saturn each have the potential to be benefic

Hi Helena,

I'm sorry to hear about your parents and the pains of your growing up, and glad to hear that you are thriving and feel fulfilled in terms of your career.

There are several themes in your chart, but I will choose to comment on just one:

Divided femine, emotions at odds with identity

The Moon, on the cusp of Leo, has the Sun as its lord. The tightest square in your chart is between the Sun conjunct Venus (14 degree Scorpio) square Leo Moon (14 degree Leo). When things are in that close of degrees, there's an almost karmic feeling and a very strong theme.

Your astrologer was right in the sense that Moon is symbolic of the mother figure. In your case, there's the splitting off of the feminine energy between the emotional (Moon) and the sensual (Venus). And because Venusian energy, which your mother probably embodied, reminds you painfully of your abuse as a child (Sun, also the Lord of your Leo Moon), you emotionally rejected it; but by doing so, you rejected an essential part of your own being (Sun conjunct Venus).

Leo and Scorpio are both fixed signs, and they are literally fire and water. You had to deal with conflictual feelings of emotions and sexuality at an age that were perhaps too early even for your awareness.

There are various ways that you unconsciously "punish" your femininity. If it's at all possible, I would really recommend seeking some form of therapy in order to fulfill a fuller, livelier potential. Venus is not just sex. It's relationships, creativity, fertility, playfulness, all of those things.

Have you spent some time in nursing homes? It teaches you not to wait for the good stuff of life

Thank you all for your very detailed insights, and above all thank you for your understanding, I do appreciate that.

Now I want to share some of my further impressions with you. While I was learning about Saturn and Mars influences, I analyzed many charts of notorious villains and criminals, since it always turned out that they went astray because they were abused as children. It was somehow strange how most of them had unbelievably favorable aspects and yet they didn't use them.

That made me think - how come I didn't go astray, how come I didn't use all those energies to commit violence and seek for revenge like they did? Chart that specially caught my eye, was Charles Manson's chart. Both of us have Saturn and Moon on the top of our charts, we belong to the same decan (he was born on Nov 12th and I on Nov 7th) and yet he didn't make it and I did.

I started thinking a bit more about cosmic energies we were given at the hour of our birth - you may or may not agree with me but this is how I see it:
There is only ONE energy, only ONE force - THE Energy, THE Force, not good or evil energies/forces, just one. Soft/favorable aspects mean that The Energy in those areas is soft, so to speak, we don't have to put much effort in achieving something related to those areas. On the other hand, hard/challenging aspects mean that The Energy in those areas is very strong, huge, enormous, explosive, and it's really up to us how or where we will use it, channel it.

There are no good and evil energies, like I've said, only The Energy, and a human hand is the one who directs it and controls it. So it's really up to us whether we're going to use that enormous (challenging) Energy in constructive or destructive way. So if one has been abused as a child, he/she can become either abuser or can eg. establish a Safe House and help the abused. It's really about knowing yourself and about feeling that Energy. Obviously not all people can handle that Force/Energy and make something positive out of it.
I think my horrible childhood only made me a better person - I would never hurt any living soul man, woman, child or animal.

The only problem is my lack of emotions, being unable to bond emotionally with others - I think that each and every one of us carry love in their heart, but we all must learn how to express it, and that's something we start learning in the early age. Since I didn't receive love from my parents, nobody thought me how to express it, it's totally blocked inside me. But again, that didn't make an evil person out of me either, in fact all people who know me say that I have a warm heart, that I'm very empathetic and altruist. And that's when I panic and run away. Somehow whenever other people discover my true personality I run away.

I mean don't get me wrong, I'm no saint, I do argue a lot, but I always express my anger verbally never physically.

Ollie said:

(what's her moon sign?)

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my father (Aries Sun, Taurus ASC, Libra Moon)
my mother (Virgo Sun, Gemini ASC, Pisces Moon)

Ollie said:

your Venus: in Scorpio, it made you very discriminating of men

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No, on contrary! Just because my father was abusive and violent man, I don't take it as a general rule. I've mentioned that my best friend is a guy (double Scorpio) - he is the only person who understands me. Generally I get along very well with men, I have a problem with women. I had to quit one job because I had a female boss and we argued A LOT.

Ollie said:

To me, it could me that these wounds from early (did you have any injuries in your head when you were young? Or do you suffer from constant headaches?

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Well I did fall down the stairs when I was 4 or 5, I wasn't injured but I did hit the ground hard and fall on my head. No I don't have headaches, at least nothing unusual, 2-3 times a year.

Ollie said:

Hmm, your father seems like a charming man.. I'd really like to know what aspects triggered his violence. Maybe his Mars receives a square from his Pluto? That'd explain a lot.

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A charming man!? He hailed from a large family (9 kids, he was the youngest + 8 older sisters), he also grew up without love and was literary kicked out of home when he was 14 because no one wanted to look after him. He has only an elementary education.
This is his chart, so see for your self (though I've noticed that hew has the same house position of Pluto and almost identical degree like Charles Manson, 4th house cancer )


and this is our synastry chart - he's inside, I'm outside

Ollie said:

Did he ever apologized for what he did?

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No, why would he, people with psychological problems are not aware that they're ill. But leave him, he's history as far as I'm concerned, the only thing I care about is my future

Anyway, I found two fantastic videos by astrologer Steve Judd, where he explains the positive sides of Saturn and Leo Moon, and his interpretations are an absolute spot on, very accurate at least as far as my Saturn and Moon are concerned

Saturn - positive side
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85HxbsNlkBk

Born with a Leo Moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFi_ELpfLe8

Just got back in Sorry my internet is really not working, so will only try to post the following:

Your Mars is certainly not malefic. It is the final dispositor of your chart, and participates in being a point of outlet in the triangular formation of the Pluto - Neptune - Jupiter triangle - Pluto quincunx Jupiter, mutual reception as well as square between Jupiter and Neptune, Neptune sextile Pluto, all within minutes of exactitude.

Mars trines Jupiter, and furthermore is the midpoint of Pluto and Neptune. Mars is in its own domicile and its own house (1st), additionally disposits your 5-planets 1st-house stellium.

Saturn, however, is away from its domicile. Capricorn rules your 4th house of roots, foundation, family, subconscious, and Saturn has escaped as far away as possible from its domicile. You may have a tendency to "run away" from the matters of the 4th house. Saturn is the archetypal "father figure". It's fascinating that the lord of your Saturn is your Moon.

FarEastUranus said:

You may have a tendency to "run away" from the matters of the 4th house. Saturn is the archetypal "father figure". It's fascinating that the lord of your Saturn is your Moon.

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Since you mentioned Moon, I think I should say something on my Lilith in Aquarius in 4th H.

Lilith in 4th house (of Home, and Father in female chart) oppose Moon in 10th house (of Mother in female chart) - 4th H represents the deepest and sometimes the most secret or hidden private matters, emotions and when Lilith is found here it indicates an extremely deep (emotional) wound in childhood related to the family. And if you read my interpretation, I mentioned that I had a very violent father, and in female chart that manifests from this aspect Lilith in 4th (father figure) square Sun. And when Lilith in 4th (father figure) oppose Moon in 10th (mother figure) it means that a female native may become either a nymphomaniac or sexual abstainer - in my case the latter. It's not an exact orb but it's in the acceptable orb of 5 degrees.

And I was digging a bit around the net on this aspect and found that some female adult movie stars and prostitutes had this aspect too.

Lilith in Aquarius means I have this need for freedom, for breaking loose, for running away form family and father (4th house).

My Arabic part of Father is also in Aquarius 14 36' in my 4th house.

Of course, your Mars squares your Moon also, with an 8 degree orb. Because it's the Moon, the aspect is still effective.

I'm not familiar with Lilith or Arabic Part of Father. I'm sure they wouldn't give anything that contradicts 10-planet astrology (I only use Chiron if it forms meaningful patterns or aspects with the traditional planets, or if there's Asc/Sun Virgo/Saggitarius. In your case, Chiron is not very strong).

Saturn, the essential father figure, happens to be the same as the lord of your 4th, the chart father. And Saturn is in its fall.

For example, in the case of my chart, Jupiter is the lord of my 4th house Sagittarius, and it is also in its fall (Gemini partile conjunct 10th house). So Jupiter is my accidental "father" (whereas Saturn is still my "essential" father). In my case, frequent change of residency and continents and a desire for ever-larger ideas of homes are the running themes, as well as an over-lenient and optimistic father. However, my Moon is in 5th house Capricorn, and Saturn rules my Moon...

What I noticed is that your chart has a really uncluttered elegance. A lot of EXACT degrees and the aspects are clear and economical. Saturn rules your 4th house, Moon rules your 10th. What could be more essential than that?

Just a note about sexual desires - how does your absence of sexual desires make you feel? Frustrated? Relieved? Curious? Couldn't care less? Or wish you could maintain an intimate relationship where sex is not a major factor of the equation?

And femininity. What does femininity give you? What does it take away? How does not being feminine free you? How does it block you?

Like I mentioned, I actually do believe that you could benefit from some form of therapy work, and after all that you've been through, you definitely deserve it. As you seem to be on an obsessive search of some kind for answers, perhaps something will come up.

Kind regards.

FarEastUranus said:

Just a note about sexual desires - how does your absence of sexual desires make you feel? Frustrated? Relieved? Curious? Couldn't care less? Or wish you could maintain an intimate relationship where sex is not a major factor of the equation?

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The thing is, I haven't grown up yet. Simply put I didn't have a proper childhood so my libido isn't actually developed, I don't feel anything. I don't feel anything even when I see two people kissing. Just think of a 5 yo watching that kind of scene, what would they do? Giggle perhaps?

FarEastUranus said:

And femininity. What does femininity give you? What does it take away? How does not being feminine free you? How does it block you?

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Just like the part on growing up, I don't feel it as well. I usually tell people that I'm a cyborg I don't file like SHE or HE, I feel like IT, totally asexual.

FarEastUranus said:

Like I mentioned, I actually do believe that you could benefit from some form of therapy work, and after all that you've been through, you definitely deserve it. As you seem to be on an obsessive search of some kind for answers, perhaps something will come up.

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Yes I thought of that too, because that's the only part of my life I cannot comprehend or control

I dont know who the astrologer was that told you all those negative things but he should be shot. That is not the way to handle a chart. We are to give guidance and insight and how to handle the more difficult aspects that we see. I hope you didnt pay him.

For a start I dont use asteroids or fixed stars and Chiron has too wide an orb for a contact with Saturn. It is not a planet and is to be used just for support perhaps. The orb would be no more than 2 degrees.
Your Mars is quite well aspected and gives strength along with the sun, in the first house. Your survival instincts would be strong.

I have not seen such a large stellium in the 1st house even though they are in different signs, I cant imagine how you look or what your persona would be!!!

So relax about Chiron. It is in the 7th house and supposed to be the wounded healer so would make a good placement for counselling work. T he 7th is much more than just our spouses.

Welcome Helena! In the famous words of Public Enemy, "Don't believe the hype."

We have the same Saturn in Cancer conjunct the MC and I've read some really negative things about it too. Good call on Saturn representing your father here. Saturn can rules fathers in night charts. It's also your 4th house ruler. And it's your (traditional) Lord of the Lot of Fathers in your chart. I noticed your 12th house ruler in the 1st that squares "father" Saturn. This could indicate secret sorrows becoming highlighted (12th in the 1st) in relation to him (hard aspect to Saturn). I agree with Claire. Forget about itty bitty Chiron. Your Saturn squares the ASC/DSC axis with or without chiron. So you really don't need to be close to anybody. I've mentioned that here about myself and how Saturn plays a significant role in my life. Your Saturn is also the exaltation ruler of the first house. So it's going to play a part in how you present yourself. My advice? Don't place too much weight on the general Libra Rising descriptions. Some of that is not going to fit you. Furthermore, I calculated your Lot of Friends (Asc + Mercury - Moon) and it's at 0.34 degrees in Capricorn. So Saturn is also the ruler of this Lot. This should be factored into the equation for friendships (along with the 11th and its Lord). I wonder if we are prone to falls with our Saturn influencing the body (1st house) because I fell down a flight of stairs when I was really young too (Knock on wood. No injuries except for a cut on my wrist). Just speculating.

And I don't see your Mars being an issue by placement and sign. I use whole signs, so both of your yang planets (Sun and Mars) trine the 10th house. Generally speaking, I think this would indicate someone with a really strong work ethic especially it being a fixed sign.

I'm agnostic on combustion and I haven't really paid too much attention to it yet. But I don't think your Venus is combust. It's within 16' of the Sun. So I believe it's cazimi...in the heart of the Sun. That's not considered a debility.

FarEastUranus: Mars is not her final dispositer. All of her personal planets go back to Mars except for her Jupiter in Pisces. So Mars and Jupiter are at the top of her dispositer tree. And her Mars trines Jupiter. Physical activity? I bet.

Wames said:

FarEastUranus: Mars is not her final dispositer. All of her personal planets go back to Mars except for her Jupiter in Pisces. So Mars and Jupiter are at the top of her dispositer tree. And her Mars trines Jupiter. Physical activity? I bet.

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Right, Jupiter is in its own sign also There's a mutual reception between Jupiter and Neptune, as well as a square within orbs to the minutes.

Mars trine Jupiter could be overdone action, complacency with actions, exaggerated activities, energetic and confidant actions, perhaps a bit overweight, but with lean muscle mass.

I do not see anything "malefic" that could indicate child abuse. Would be good to have someone knowledgeable in that domain to take a look.

Oh thank you all, you really did a great analysis

But I must say I'm quite comfortable with my chart's energy. Everything in my life (at least the things I've done so far) are not lucky strikes but results of a hard and pedantic work. Unlike most of people whenever I'm in crisis I don't break down and cry, I roll up my sleeves and start doing some hard work

Yes Saturn is the ruler of Capricorn, who happens to be the ruler of my 4th house, but I don't see it in negative light, on contrary.

Wames said:

So it's going to play a part in how you present yourself. My advice? Don't place too much weight on the general Libra Rising descriptions. Some of that is not going to fit you.

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Since I have Uranus and Mercury in Libra, I think I'm Libra only intellectually - I usually say that I have a head of a Libra, body of a Scorpio and a heart of a Lioness

Since Saturn rules Capricorn, and since Saturn has (had) so much influence on me, I have so many Capricornian traits. Although I've heard that caps and Scorpios are somewhat alike - both are goal-oriented.

FarEastUranus said:

perhaps a bit overweight, but with lean muscle mass.

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5'5 / 110 (metric 168 / 52) and (I don't want it to sound like I'm bragging) I have 6-pack abs I'm vegan, so it's nearly impossible go gain some extra weight. I really exercise a lot, I'm a very physical person, and I don't get tired that easily.

Wames said:

I wonder if we are prone to falls with our Saturn influencing the body (1st house) because I fell down a flight of stairs when I was really young too (Knock on wood. No injuries except for a cut on my wrist). Just speculating.

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Falling down the stairs was the only major accident I had, but I was falling a lot, I was a hyper active kid. But I think it's only related to the childhood, because ever since I grew up I didn't have a single accident.

Wames said:

So I believe it's cazimi...in the heart of the Sun. That's not considered a debility.

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My thoughts exactly!

Claire19 said:

I have not seen such a large stellium in the 1st house even though they are in different signs, I cant imagine how you look or what your persona would be!!!

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I've mentioned my weight and height You know, many people've said that I remind them of Fall (Autumn). I have a strange hair color - it looks like Fall leaves, it's not light brown, it's not yellow, it's not red but in the same time it's all that. It really looks like I've done some highlighting. Eyes, dark gray, like a Fall stormy skies and I a very light skin complexion, almost anemic, which I'm not

Claire19 said:

So relax about Chiron. It is in the 7th house and supposed to be the wounded healer so would make a good placement for counselling work.

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Believe it or not, I'm very good at that, although I'm an engineer by vocation

Wames said:

your 12th house ruler in the 1st that squares "father" Saturn. This could indicate secret sorrows becoming highlighted (12th in the 1st) in relation to him (hard aspect to Saturn).

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I left home very early, with a bitter heart. But now, I'm a totally different person. I've changed a lot since then, and I don't have any traumatic feelings at all, like nothing has happened. The thing is I don't have a problem saying about my childhood, but I've noticed that many people do have. So my childhood abuse sounds like a worn out joke - I've told it so many times that it has lost all of its meaning and intensity too.

Hi! I go by whole signs system and I have some identical aspects to your chart such as early Libra AC with Pluto in 1st, Sun trine Saturn and Jupiter, Mars trine Jupiter, Mercury square Saturn and I too, love Saturn and Mars. Only... my Saturn is exalted (Libra) in the 1st house conjunct AC and Mars is detriment (Taurus) in 8th house. We've interchanged some traits.

I wanted to respond to you because for a very long time, I had trouble getting along with other females. My Gemini Venus isn't debilitated but I'm not all warm and cuddly. I also have Moon opposition Saturn so that's not all great for connecting with others, either. I realize that my difficulty could really just be my strong Saturn aspects (Saturn makes aspect to nearly all my planets) and I think your difficulty with female lies in your 3 strong and personal Saturn aspects which may smash any initial emotional reaction/bonding that females are traditionally attributed to act upon. Saturn is sobering rationalization and known for being cold and masculine. Having a Saturnine Sun isn't going to make you open up to many and even if you do, there's a sense of internal suspicion that others are stupid and will f*ck things up for you.

Also, because I use whole signs system, to me, you have Saturn in the 10th house and your moon is in the 11th. I see people with Saturn in the 10th house as those who were emancipated from their mother very early on in life and have little to no existing relationship with the mother. Moon in the 11th is someone who finds great emotional comfort in platonic friendships with the opposite sex but heavily competes with the same sex. I think those 2 areas heavily contribute your difficulties getting along with females.

What do you think? There's a tread on Sun trine Saturn. I think you ought to respond to that!

In response to your parents, I have to say there's something quite eerie as I had an emotionally and physically abusive childhood.

Your father Aries Sun, Taurus Asc, and Libra Moon.
My father has Scorpio Sun, Taurus Asc, and Aqua Moon.
Your mother Virgo Sun, Gemini Asc, and Pisces Moon.
My mother has Leo Sun, Virgo Asc, and Pisces Moon. My mother always did play the Virgo martyr as she has a huge Virgo stellium in her 1st house. I always felt resentful towards her for allowing me to get beaten up and she made herself vulnerable and got beaten up a lot. Instead of divorce, she kept quiet and wore huge cat eye sunglasses to cover up her bruises and cuts.

When you were 6, you realized you were alone. At 6, I had a melee that lead to everyone (me, my mom, and my dad) all land in the hospital. One of the things I did was stab my father to prevent him from further hitting my mother.

Your post is very intriguing to me as I strangely find myself seeing the experiences I have intimate knowledge of being written by someone I had never met.