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  #1  
Unread 11-07-2016, 09:29 PM
Bluebell87 Bluebell87 is offline
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A most indefatigable enemy...

This girl has been the bane of my life. She should have been a much more supportive big sister, but instead has been nasty and manipulative. My presence alone is enough for her to feel I have taken 100% off the spotlight away from her and triggers her vindictive, selfish side.

Does the Saturn in the first house add to her insecurity, is that where her insecurity comes from? I've reached my own conclusion about her, but I guess I would like to see if Astrology can show me something, or give me an unbiased view. I don't know why it is saying her MC is in Cancer, because when I've done her chart before it came up as a Leo MC, and that fits her much better.


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Unread 11-07-2016, 09:47 PM
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Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

Chart patterns and themes...One theme of this chart: need to be HBIC. Why? Because (1) Sun is conjunct Mars and opposite Jupiter (ego, desire to win, be on top), ruling DSC (2) Venus is on the MC, ruling the ASC, (3) Saturn conjunct Pluto rises in Libra (dominance/power through social attractiveness), ruling 4th house, disposed by Venus.

There doesn't seem to be anything off about Cancer MC, from what you have said about her here and elsewhere. Venus is sitting there ruled by a fallen Moon and square the ASC.

Last edited by sibylline; 11-07-2016 at 09:54 PM.
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  #3  
Unread 11-07-2016, 09:56 PM
Bluebell87 Bluebell87 is offline
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Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
Chart patterns and themes...One theme of this chart: need to be HBIC. Why? Because (1) Sun is conjunct Mars and opposite Jupiter (ego, desire to win, be on top), ruling DSC (2) Venus is on the MC, ruling the ASC, (3) Saturn conjunct Pluto rises in Libra (dominance/power through social attractiveness).

There doesn't seem to be anything off about Cancer MC, from what you have said about her here and elsewhere. Venus is sitting there ruled by a fallen Moon and square the ASC.
Aw, thank you Sibs. Out of interest and to compare, what are the themes that show through in my chart, it isn't sensitivity by any chance? Because that would show why there's this resentment or lack of 'togetherness.' I know I had lots of Aries, but I really have no desire to be HBIC (had to Google what that meant btw and it made me laugh, it's her to a T).
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Unread 11-07-2016, 10:17 PM
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Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

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Originally Posted by Bluebell87 View Post
Aw, thank you Sibs. Out of interest and to compare, what are the themes that show through in my chart
Do you really want to know? I'll give a light interpretation.

I think there is a good bit of sensitivity there, but primarily there is a conflict. That is, there is a schism between the need to cooperate and compassion for others, as shown by the Libra ASC and Venus in Pisces in the 6th, and the drive to be independent and say and do what you want shown by the Aries stellium and Moon conjunct Uranus in Sagittarius. I think not getting along with your sister bothers you deeply because of the former. ViPs can be pretty sensitive to conflict or uncalled for cruelty. The Venus in Pisces in the 6th is square the Moon and Saturn -- Sounds like someone who feels like they always play second fiddle and internalizes this insecurity.
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Unread 11-07-2016, 10:36 PM
Bluebell87 Bluebell87 is offline
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Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
Do you really want to know? I'll give a light interpretation.

I think there is a good bit of sensitivity there, but primarily there is a conflict. That is, there is a schism between the need to cooperate and compassion for others, as shown by the Libra ASC and Venus in Pisces in the 6th, and the drive to be independent and say and do what you want shown by the Aries stellium and Moon conjunct Uranus in Sagittarius. I think not getting along with your sister bothers you deeply because of the former. ViPs can be pretty sensitive to conflict or uncalled for cruelty. The Venus in Pisces in the 6th is square the Moon and Saturn -- Sounds like someone who feels like they always play second fiddle and internalizes this insecurity.
No I don't mind, I can handle honesty, including all my faults and issues laid bare. Yes I've always felt second fiddle, but I'm so used to it, I kind of feel it has humbled me. And people do comment how down-to-earth I am, and I think that comes from never being treated like I was more important than others. I don't have the same desire to be on-top like my sister does. I don't know if it makes me feel better, knowing all this was written in the stars. But it's also good to know that my feelings of inadequacy would have existed, regardless of my sisters need to be HBIC. It's just the way things were meant to be, and I've had the resentment due to it simply not being fair.

Quick q tho, will I always feel second-fiddle, inthe sense that will THIS these carry me around my whole life, so if/when I get married and have children, will I feel second fiddle to my husband and children?? Also, I take it my sister doesn't have as difficult a chart as me?
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Unread 11-07-2016, 11:35 PM
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Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

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Originally Posted by Bluebell87 View Post
No I don't mind, I can handle honesty, including all my faults and issues laid bare. Yes I've always felt second fiddle, but I'm so used to it, I kind of feel it has humbled me. And people do comment how down-to-earth I am, and I think that comes from never being treated like I was more important than others. I don't have the same desire to be on-top like my sister does. I don't know if it makes me feel better, knowing all this was written in the stars. But it's also good to know that my feelings of inadequacy would have existed, regardless of my sisters need to be HBIC. It's just the way things were meant to be, and I've had the resentment due to it simply not being fair.
Would it have? I don't know. I believe the natal chart was meant to reflect our experiences.

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Quick q tho, will I always feel second-fiddle, in the sense that will THIS these carry me around my whole life, so if/when I get married and have children, will I feel second fiddle to my husband and children??
It takes a ton of work and reinforcement but these things do get better over time. Saturn rewards hard work. You can start by knowing that you are not the forgotten sister.

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Also, I take it my sister doesn't have as difficult a chart as me?
There is social ease shown by the fairly well-aspected Venus/MC but with an 8th house stellium and Saturn conjunct Pluto in the 1st house? Lol, no. The latter is considered by several to be one of the worst, if not the worst, aspect to have. While I wouldn't go there, Saturn-Pluto being the first to rise after birth does not indicate a life of play time.

Last edited by sibylline; 11-07-2016 at 11:37 PM.
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Unread 11-08-2016, 12:20 AM
Bluebell87 Bluebell87 is offline
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Would it have? I don't know. I believe the natal chart was meant to reflect our experiences.



It takes a ton of work and reinforcement but these things do get better over time. Saturn rewards hard work. You can start by knowing that you are not the forgotten sister.



There is social ease shown by the fairly well-aspected Venus/MC but with an 8th house stellium and Saturn conjunct Pluto in the 1st house? Lol, no. The latter is considered by several to be one of the worst, if not the worst, aspect to have. While I wouldn't go there, Saturn-Pluto being the first to rise after birth does not indicate a life of play time.
Well, if the birth chart was made to reflect our experiences...that means I wouldn't have this moon-Saturn inadequacy going on if it were not for the bad parenting given by my dad and gran. Does that not mean then that the lessons Saturn needs to teach me, have been passed on to me by no fault of my own, therefore it's not my lesson. The only lesson I need to have is compassion for my family. But if the lesson I need to learn is not to feel like the forgotten sister, then I cannot be held responsible for not learning that lesson, as I am the forgotten sister. This is where my Aries comes in, and makes me comfortable in my own skin to know that I did deserve better and it wasn't right.

That Saturn conjunct Pluto in the first house...I think this is why my sister projects all her **** on to me. Because she can't handle it and has to keep up the oretense of social graces, at the same time as having this hidden moon in Scorpio agenda. Despite her libra rising with Venus in cancer...where is her compassion??

Anyway, I've had to walk away from what remaining family members I have for my own sanity. But I don't believe Saturn is dishing out lessons fairly here.
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Unread 11-08-2016, 01:31 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

I believe the Natal-chart is luck-of-the-draw, as is the family you're born into; and that Saturnian effects are a "Force-of-Nature", neither fair nor unfair. Enjoy the good, and endure the bad. No blame. Sorry to hear you have such an unenlightened family.

Last edited by david starling; 11-08-2016 at 01:35 AM.
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Unread 11-08-2016, 01:40 AM
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Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

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Originally Posted by Bluebell87 View Post
Well, if the birth chart was made to reflect our experiences...that means I wouldn't have this moon-Saturn inadequacy going on if it were not for the bad parenting given by my dad and gran. Does that not mean then that the lessons Saturn needs to teach me, have been passed on to me by no fault of my own, therefore it's not my lesson. The only lesson I need to have is compassion for my family. But if the lesson I need to learn is not to feel like the forgotten sister, then I cannot be held responsible for not learning that lesson, as I am the forgotten sister. This is where my Aries comes in, and makes me comfortable in my own skin to know that I did deserve better and it wasn't right.
It is your lesson -- it is your chart.

You are not the forgotten sister. Maybe forgotten by a few family members, but you can't carry this idea with you in life.

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That Saturn conjunct Pluto in the first house...I think this is why my sister projects all her **** on to me. Because she can't handle it and has to keep up the oretense of social graces, at the same time as having this hidden moon in Scorpio agenda. Despite her libra rising with Venus in cancer...where is her compassion??

Anyway, I've had to walk away from what remaining family members I have for my own sanity. But I don't believe Saturn is dishing out lessons fairly here.
She's probably too wrapped up in her issues/concerns.

No one said it's all fair, but we can only play with the hand we've been dealt.
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Unread 11-08-2016, 01:58 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

Learning to "play the hand with the hand we're dealt" is what Astrology is about. Often, there is more that can be learned from adversity than from an "easy" situation. More power to you!
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  #11  
Unread 11-08-2016, 02:02 AM
Bluebell87 Bluebell87 is offline
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I believe the Natal-chart is luck-of-the-draw, as is the family you're born into; and that Saturnian effects are a "Force-of-Nature", neither fair nor unfair. Enjoy the good, and endure the bad. No blame. Sorry to hear you have such an unenlightened family.
Aw thank you David, for your kind words. Yeah I do have a tendency to feel sorry for myself, no wonder though. The Aries in me soon sorts that out though. If it wasn't for all my Aries and the straight optimism the sign gives, I probably wouldn't be here (just being honest.) But then the Aries energy gives me a big flash of inspiration, and I'm off again.
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  #12  
Unread 11-08-2016, 02:06 AM
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It is your lesson -- it is your chart.

You are not the forgotten sister. Maybe forgotten by a few family members, but you can't carry this idea with you in life.



She's probably too wrapped up in her issues/concerns.

No one said it's all fair, but we can only play with the hand we've been dealt.
Perhaps I keep 'tripping' myself up because underneath I feel like the forgotten sister. Maybe the lesson I need to learn is to really act and behave in a way that gives off these confident vibes. If Saturn needs me to learn self-confidence, then that I can agree with. Because I have compassion and humility due to everything I've been through anyway.

It does make sense my sister would be too wrapped up in her own problems to be able to see how much she has and is hurting me still. I've tried to be there for her and add to her life, but she just tramples over me and disposes of me when I'm perceived as a threat or no longer of any use.

Nietchze: hell is other people.
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Unread 11-18-2016, 08:59 AM
WHYNOT WHYNOT is offline
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Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

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Originally Posted by Bluebell87 View Post
Perhaps I keep 'tripping' myself up because underneath I feel like the forgotten sister. Maybe the lesson I need to learn is to really act and behave in a way that gives off these confident vibes. If Saturn needs me to learn self-confidence, then that I can agree with. Because I have compassion and humility due to everything I've been through anyway.

It does make sense my sister would be too wrapped up in her own problems to be able to see how much she has and is hurting me still. I've tried to be there for her and add to her life, but she just tramples over me and disposes of me when I'm perceived as a threat or no longer of any use.

Nietchze: hell is other people.
Your sister sounds similar to mine, (no wonder your comments on my post were so in tune) . My sister has Saturn in 1st house as well! I have often wondered about it & think that gives an "inferiority complex", and a person with that has to make other feel inferior to elevate themselves. But I must say that I have never been able to detect any sense of "inferiority" in her outward behaviour..just the opposite.
Like you, " I have compassion and humility due to everything I've been through". Those are things my sister lacks. I tried to be a friend to her, but she has always been a thorn in my side and caused troubles , whenever I returned..(long story) Sigh.
I have decided that now our mother is gone, I probably will dump her & my 2 other siblings, whom she has infected with her false stories about me because I can't do "superficial & fake" , just because they are family..

* * * *
That quote "Hell is other people" is funny to me, because a palmistry reader I once visited, many years ago, commented "People=Pain".
I never forgot that. He also quoted to me "the more people I meet, the MORE I like my dog" ! LOL

Last edited by WHYNOT; 11-18-2016 at 09:30 AM.
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Unread 11-18-2016, 12:34 PM
Bluebell87 Bluebell87 is offline
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Your sister sounds similar to mine, (no wonder your comments on my post were so in tune) . My sister has Saturn in 1st house as well! I have often wondered about it & think that gives an "inferiority complex", and a person with that has to make other feel inferior to elevate themselves. But I must say that I have never been able to detect any sense of "inferiority" in her outward behaviour..just the opposite.
Like you, " I have compassion and humility due to everything I've been through". Those are things my sister lacks. I tried to be a friend to her, but she has always been a thorn in my side and caused troubles , whenever I returned..(long story) Sigh.
I have decided that now our mother is gone, I probably will dump her & my 2 other siblings, whom she has infected with her false stories about me because I can't do "superficial & fake" , just because they are family..

* * * *
That quote "Hell is other people" is funny to me, because a palmistry reader I once visited, many years ago, commented "People=Pain".
I never forgot that. He also quoted to me "the more people I meet, the MORE I like my dog" ! LOL
Hey WHYNOT, our situations do sound very similar! The easiest thing to do sometimes is just to distance ourselves for our own sanity. It's funny they both have Saturn in the 1st house! ive been thinking about the process my sister has of putting people down to elevate herself and it defo makes sense that was the process. From the outside it comes across as having a judgemental manner to most people, but 'Saturn in the first' really describes the intensity that comes from them...and if you are their punching bag then its more than just judgmental behaviour, it's as callous and as cold as Saturn herself.

But yeah, I am struggling to find some empathy by being able to see them as having an inferiority complex. It's funny because I crossed the road and ended up just behind my sister up town, I didn't see her til we were right behind each other, and she kind of turned and gave a disapproving look before she knew it was me, then looked kinda surprised. Then I came home and saw your msg! She doesn't look like a victim at all, I don't think the pain they project onto others is half as bad as the pain we feel from it....so it would be silly to kid ourselves into feeling sorry for 'bullies.' They're laughing all the way to the end.

Do you have sensitivity in your chart? Maybe that's why we are disillusioned by the majority of people. Thank god for other people who agree or I would be adding self-doubt to the situation.

Yes I totally recognized your situation. It's funny it was very similar. We can't help but play the roles we are forced into, like acting distant or not being able to be fake or play power games...I too find animals to be my sanctuary. It's funny how the 'loner' types or the archetype figure of the grumpy old man who is always alone....they are hiding the most precious hearts. And the ones who are around people the most are the less sensitive.

Last edited by Bluebell87; 11-18-2016 at 12:42 PM.
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Unread 11-18-2016, 03:24 PM
Laineydreamer21 Laineydreamer21 is offline
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Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
Chart patterns and themes...One theme of this chart: need to be HBIC. Why? Because (1) Sun is conjunct Mars and opposite Jupiter (ego, desire to win, be on top), ruling DSC (2) Venus is on the MC, ruling the ASC, (3) Saturn conjunct Pluto rises in Libra (dominance/power through social attractiveness), ruling 4th house, disposed by Venus.

There doesn't seem to be anything off about Cancer MC, from what you have said about her here and elsewhere. Venus is sitting there ruled by a fallen Moon and square the ASC.
Hmm this is an interesting post, I have also had a very turbulent relationship with my sister.. I'm the eldest but she is way tougher than me.. I'm Pisces sun/merc and she is Scorpio sun moon Mars Pluto 🙄
She is 9 years younger than me so I know the age gap didn't help but some of the things sibylline said about your sister clicks for my sister too. She has sun conjunct mars in 6th Scorpio, sextile Jupiter and squaring Saturn on the MC in Aquarius.. She's a handful and always has an uncomfortable effect on me. She takes everything personally and she's a ticking time bomb. She even pushed me when I was pregnant when we were arguing over her giving my dad blood pressure! This last year though has been a drastic change.. When my cousin took her life in January my sister reached out to me and I'm giving it a chance. I'm her big sister right?! I hope now that we can have some sort of relationship, but I am cautious and not getting too close yet.. We had some serious problems in the past.. Maybe there is hope for you and your sister to reconnect in the future?! I haven't seen other posts about it so I don't know your problems with her and I don't intend to make light of them.
I have a pretty ****** hard family situation but I really believe we pick our families according to the lessons we want to learn this time. Some lessons we cannot learn by an easy life.. Unfortunately.. Sounds like you're already trying to see what you can learn from this situation which is very positive 😊
Your sisters Venus seems to square her Pluto/Saturn conjunction.. I'm not very good but maybe that does show some inferiority/insecurity on her behalf?! Anyway I'm starting to think it's more common to have bad sibling relationships than good.. My Aquarius brother calls me a weirdo and mocks my spiritual/psychic/pagan/witchy ways 😄
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Unread 11-18-2016, 03:27 PM
Laineydreamer21 Laineydreamer21 is offline
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Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

PS; where is your Chiron?! Mine is in 4th in Taurus.. My sister has it in 4th also
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Unread 11-18-2016, 05:21 PM
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Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

Sun 28 Aries=opposed her Saturn/pluto in the 1st:


She devastates and demolishes your self imageódarkens your life force

merc 8 aries/Jupiter 11 aries:
conjunct her descendant
sextiles/trines her Gemini/Sag opposition.

So you are a witness to her polarity. And your Jupiter helps it grow? You escalate her at times? Maybe you question her and confront her, more than others do?

mars 8 gemini= conjunct her mars at 6 gemini/opposed jupiter/uranus

So maybe you see some of yourself in her? You might have similar ambitions?

Venus 24 pisces=apex of T-square from her nodes and Neptune 28sag conjunct so node 25 sag

You have been through many past lives together. A lot of past baggage together that does not have to do with this incarnation. So some of the anger/disillusionment is irrational, and leftover resentment from long ago?


Saturn= 20 sag R: falls in her 3rd, and she makes a yod to your sat from hr Merc/Venus sextile

Uranus= 26 Sag R =tightly conjunct her South Node and conjunct her natal Neptune

More of that past life stuff? Uranus on her Neptune/SN brings light to her distant karmic memories. You stir up old unconscious things, deeply buried. You make her uncomfortable and she may not understand why.

I think you had a storied past together. You are a stark reminder?

Node= 11 Aries: your south node is conjunct her ascendant


Again, you make her uncomfortable because she may feel that you are judging her, even mocking her. Even when you are not doing so, consciously at least.
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Unread 11-18-2016, 06:33 PM
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Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHYNOT View Post
Your sister sounds similar to mine, (no wonder your comments on my post were so in tune) . My sister has Saturn in 1st house as well! I have often wondered about it & think that gives an "inferiority complex", and a person with that has to make other feel inferior to elevate themselves. But I must say that I have never been able to detect any sense of "inferiority" in her outward behaviour..just the opposite.
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It's funny they both have Saturn in the 1st house! ive been thinking about the process my sister has of putting people down to elevate herself and it defo makes sense that was the process. From the outside it comes across as having a judgemental manner to most people, but 'Saturn in the first' really describes the intensity that comes from them...and if you are their punching bag then its more than just judgmental behaviour, it's as callous and as cold as Saturn herself.
It's not unusual for the Saturn rising to create a hard, stern personality. Having to deal with the harsh realities of life can make them unforgiving of missteps or weaknesses in others. I think some are unaware of how severe they come across, even if they are warmer on the inside. Of course not all are like this; I know some who are open, kind, and generous (e.g. my bf). You have to look at the sign Saturn is in, its dispositor, and the tenor of the whole chart.

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Nietchze: hell is other people.
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Originally Posted by WHYNOT View Post
That quote "Hell is other people" is funny to me, because a palmistry reader I once visited, many years ago, commented "People=Pain".
I never forgot that. He also quoted to me "the more people I meet, the MORE I like my dog" ! LOL
I like people, in general. Some I get along with really well, some I get along with okay, and some not much at all but overall I'm in favor. Weird, I know.
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Unread 11-18-2016, 08:53 PM
Bluebell87 Bluebell87 is offline
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Hmm this is an interesting post, I have also had a very turbulent relationship with my sister.. I'm the eldest but she is way tougher than me.. I'm Pisces sun/merc and she is Scorpio sun moon Mars Pluto 🙄
She is 9 years younger than me so I know the age gap didn't help but some of the things sibylline said about your sister clicks for my sister too. She has sun conjunct mars in 6th Scorpio, sextile Jupiter and squaring Saturn on the MC in Aquarius.. She's a handful and always has an uncomfortable effect on me. She takes everything personally and she's a ticking time bomb. She even pushed me when I was pregnant when we were arguing over her giving my dad blood pressure! This last year though has been a drastic change.. When my cousin took her life in January my sister reached out to me and I'm giving it a chance. I'm her big sister right?! I hope now that we can have some sort of relationship, but I am cautious and not getting too close yet.. We had some serious problems in the past.. Maybe there is hope for you and your sister to reconnect in the future?! I haven't seen other posts about it so I don't know your problems with her and I don't intend to make light of them.
I have a pretty ****** hard family situation but I really believe we pick our families according to the lessons we want to learn this time. Some lessons we cannot learn by an easy life.. Unfortunately.. Sounds like you're already trying to see what you can learn from this situation which is very positive 😊
Your sisters Venus seems to square her Pluto/Saturn conjunction.. I'm not very good but maybe that does show some inferiority/insecurity on her behalf?! Anyway I'm starting to think it's more common to have bad sibling relationships than good.. My Aquarius brother calls me a weirdo and mocks my spiritual/psychic/pagan/witchy ways 😄
Hey lainey, its funny hearing it from where it's the little sister causing the trouble...with all that Scorpio she sounds indefatigable as well :/ it's a good song she has got in touch, shows she loves you and is looking to you for protection/comfort. It kinda puts it into perspective that these things depend on what set of signs/cards you are dealt.

I've thought a lot recently about the future and if we will make up. It's hard because due to my Venus Pisces, I'm always gonna forgive. I'm the Keats stubborn one in my family, but my sister knows this and has come to me when she needs me but then drops me when she doesn't. I think the problems have been multiplied because when our mum died and my Gran on the mums side took over the parenting. She was old-school authoritarian but with a great sense of humour and loads of charm, but she helped cause this mess because she favoured my sister and taught her to blame me for things and use me when it is convenient to. Then couple in all my sisters Saturn, 8th house etc...you can get a picture of what I've had to put up with. I read a description about Saturn in first house, and it sounds more like me than my sister. I'm not sure if this is because of my Venus-Saturn square,or because that's the messages I've been receiving from my Gran and my sister systematically since puberty. But yeah, I'll always forgive. But it's hard because my sister not only is naive to the heir she causes, she doesn't care one bit.
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Unread 11-18-2016, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Sun 28 Aries=opposed her Saturn/pluto in the 1st:
She devastates and demolishes your self imageódarkens your life force
She definetely has the knack for making me look bad and getting people to give me bad looks, she's very concerned with outward appearances. From when we were younger and I would get the blame for her smoking, or being on the phone to my Gran complaining about me, and Gran taking her side. I was in a car crash one night where my car was totalled and the police gave me a lift to her house so I could get a set of my spare house keys, she told me to wait outside while she went and got them. Didn't think she had done anything wrong til she told me the next day when she went back to bed her partner asked if I was ok. I went to her house the NEED day and had awful neck pain and feeling fragile in general and I was clearly a nuisance to her. The day after that her three sons got ill with a commoncold virus and there was worry about that. She said to me 'if you had died in that car crash you would have been forgotten about already as the kids are ill now.' Extreme attention seeking or what? Nvm she would always walk infront of me and I would have hwr3 sons while she went round the shops. Try pointing this out to her and she will start taking down to me.

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
merc 8 aries/Jupiter 11 aries:
conjunct her descendant
sextiles/trines her Gemini/Sag opposition.

So you are a witness to her polarity. And your Jupiter helps it grow? You escalate her at times? Maybe you question her and confront her, more than others do?
Yes, I see everything she does!! I don't have the capacity to stand up to her because when I do it makes me looks bad, but I see exactly what she does to manipulate people, just flirting mainly. Or playing the role of housewife infront of her mum-in-law. To the point I actually wonder if her being insincere just add to her insecurity, as she is so aware of what she is doing herself, it must feel like she has cheated herself inside. Last time I saw her, I told her I can see a lot of intense emotions she is hiding, that alone was enough to freak her out your pint she left my house while saying to her two youngest sons 'come on, let's go' as she puts a protective hand on them. Now is that not a prime example of how problems are passed through each generation? I would like to point out her oldest son ran away to mine a couple months after this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
mars 8 gemini= conjunct her mars at 6 gemini/opposed jupiter/uranus

So maybe you see some of yourself in her? You might have similar ambitions?
I do see some of myself in both my sister and my Gran. I wonder if I would have been the same if I had been brought up in the same food as my sister, being made to believe I was special. That's why I'm glad I wasn't treated the same, because that and the depression I've had since my mum died, it's humbled me.

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Venus 24 pisces=apex of T-square from her nodes and Neptune 28sag conjunct so node 25 sag

You have been through many past lives together. A lot of past baggage together that does not have to do with this incarnation. So some of the anger/disillusionment is irrational, and leftover resentment from long ago?
Saturn= 20 sag R: falls in her 3rd, and she makes a yod to your sat from hr Merc/Venus sextile
Uranus= 26 Sag R =tightly conjunct her South Node and conjunct her natal Neptune
More of that past life stuff? Uranus on her Neptune/SN brings light to her distant karmic memories. You stir up old unconscious things, deeply buried. You make her uncomfortable and she may not understand why.
I think you had a storied past together. You are a stark reminder?
Perhaps some of it is irrational in the sense that I'm 29 and shouldn't be worrying about this. Thing is, I've went and made something of myself but I'm so angry at how horrible she has been when I was forced by circumstances of my Gran dying to see her again. And seeing her up town, she's not suffering at all.
And my Pisces Venus means it is my nature to forgive and forget? How is that fair? That my life has been made even harder because of her and my grans issues, nvm I was the youngest and 11 when my mum died. How can I forgive such absent-minded ruthlessness. But I know my nature dictates that I will. And I know she will continue with the bad habits she has learnt to use, why would she give them up when they are so effective?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
Node= 11 Aries: your south node is conjunct her ascendant
Again, you make her uncomfortable because she may feel that you are judging her, even mocking her. Even when you are not doing so, consciously at least.
I don't make my sister uncomfortable by laughing at her. She mocks other people. Even her 'friends.' I'm the least judgemental person in my family.

Thank you for the synastry. It's nice to see it's not all in my head.
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  #21  
Unread 11-18-2016, 11:09 PM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

I don't make my sister uncomfortable by laughing at her. She mocks other people. Even her 'friends.' I'm the least judgemental person in my family.

Thank you for the synastry. It's nice to see it's not all in my head.
==========================================

I think she feels like you are judging and mocking her. She can sense the anger and resentment that you have. It is not your fault you feel that way if she is as horrible towards you as you describe.

But your South Node/Asc conjunction can be very difficult and awkward. She might feel that you are the judgmental one.
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  #22  
Unread 11-18-2016, 11:22 PM
Bluebell87 Bluebell87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
I don't make my sister uncomfortable by laughing at her. She mocks other people. Even her 'friends.' I'm the least judgemental person in my family.

Thank you for the synastry. It's nice to see it's not all in my head.
==========================================

I think she feels like you are judging and mocking her. She can sense the anger and resentment that you have. It is not your fault you feel that way if she is as horrible towards you as you describe.

But your South Node/Asc conjunction can be very difficult and awkward. She might feel that you are the judgmental one.
Dunno. If anything I've been too submissive and 'served' my Gran and sisters ego's, out of naivety mainly and just needing their love. I don't see how she could think I have judged her in any way. My resentment is far too internalised. Maybe she is awkward because she feels guilty. Because now that I have realised that she's been damaging my self-esteem all these years, I have my walls up. But that's only very recently, and I usually just walk away from situations I don't like.

However, I was hoping astrology would give me an effective weapon against this most indefatigable enemy - judging her and mocking her is an *excellent* way to do it. So for future references, I now know her weakness and the best way to get to her. Passive-aggressiveness isn't my usual forte,but I will gladly make an exception for her.

Last edited by Bluebell87; 11-18-2016 at 11:30 PM.
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  #23  
Unread 11-18-2016, 11:38 PM
Bluebell87 Bluebell87 is offline
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It's not unusual for the Saturn rising to create a hard, stern personality. Having to deal with the harsh realities of life can make them unforgiving of missteps or weaknesses in others. I think some are unaware of how severe they come across, even if they are warmer on the inside. Of course not all are like this; I know some who are open, kind, and generous (e.g. my bf). You have to look at the sign Saturn is in, its dispositor, and the tenor of the whole chart.
I can see my sisters warmth, she is very charming and socially successful, like you said, but I've not actually seen her use it to help other people besides herself - moon in Scorpio? She has said hints about how some things have been unfair on me, but she's not a psychopath, she will feel guilty underneath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
I like people, in general. Some I get along with really well, some I get along with okay, and some not much at all but overall I'm in favor. Weird, I know.
Nah it's good you are still rational about it. I know I'm being negative on this thread and also in life in general at the present moment,I'm still grieving/depressed. But people are still generally good. It's harder to remain thinking like that though when you are emotionally vulnerable, cos that's when you see people's darker/animal side come out, not everyone though. But people do turn on the 'weak.'

It is not I that is misanthropic towards the world; but the world which is misanthropic towards I.
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  #24  
Unread 11-19-2016, 12:53 AM
katydid katydid is offline
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Re: A most indefatigable enemy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebell87 View Post
Dunno. If anything I've been too submissive and 'served' my Gran and sisters ego's, out of naivety mainly and just needing their love. I don't see how she could think I have judged her in any way. My resentment is far too internalised. Maybe she is awkward because she feels guilty. Because now that I have realised that she's been damaging my self-esteem all these years, I have my walls up. But that's only very recently, and I usually just walk away from situations I don't like.

However, I was hoping astrology would give me an effective weapon against this most indefatigable enemy - judging her and mocking her is an *excellent* way to do it. So for future references, I now know her weakness and the best way to get to her. Passive-aggressiveness isn't my usual forte,but I will gladly make an exception for her.
She has the Moon in Scorpio, right?

So your resentment cannot be 'too' internalized for her to recognize it.

Maybe she does feel Guilty. Sounds like she should. But I do believe that she she is very aware of your hidden anger/resentments towards her. And I do believe that she thinks you are judging her and are unfairly critical of her.

That does not mean it is true. HOWEVER, I do have to wonder if you are seeing things in a totally rational way. I do wonder if MAYBE, you see her in a worse light than she deserves? I don't want to upset you or make you think I am siding with her in any way. I just see that the synastry is very messed up between you two.
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  #25  
Unread 11-19-2016, 01:09 AM
Bluebell87 Bluebell87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katydid View Post
She has the Moon in Scorpio, right?

So your resentment cannot be 'too' internalized for her to recognize it.

Maybe she does feel Guilty. Sounds like she should. But I do believe that she she is very aware of your hidden anger/resentments towards her. And I do believe that she thinks you are judging her and are unfairly critical of her.

That does not mean it is true. HOWEVER, I do have to wonder if you are seeing things in a totally rational way. I do wonder if MAYBE, you see her in a worse light than she deserves? I don't want to upset you or make you think I am siding with her in any way. I just see that the synastry is very messed up between you two.
Ah no this is good to exchange views. I would rather you say what you see incase it's not something I'm seeing yet. Or aware of.

Yeah she is very, very perceptive. Thats partly why she can manipulate others so easily. The only reason I said I don't think she has noticed it is because it's only the last 2 years I've been this resentful and I haven't been around her. I was too naive to the situation before and have been 'described as too soft.' Just looking for love, and she knows that.
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