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  #1  
Unread 10-29-2013, 06:14 PM
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Savior-victim relationship and Neptune

What are the dynamics behind the effort of being a savior of someone?

I have Sun/Mars opp. Neptune. I always pay attention to its "being a victim" side. I just realized that I'm also playing the "savior" for other people. I'm surprised to see it now because it's very obvious. But I usually call it "acting like a therapist" in my relationships.

More than this, sometimes I think of a person(with clear psychological symptoms) like "will I help or, do I have a duty of helping her in the future", "is there a mission between she and me" etc. I clearly understand this now and I wonder the psychological reasons behind it?

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Unread 10-29-2013, 07:51 PM
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Re: Savior-victim relationship and Neptune

I sometimes wonder if the "saviour" potential of Neptune is the flip side of the "victim" coin. There are both coming from the same dynamic. Co-dependency could be the common-denominator. The victim can't stand on his own two feet, but the saviour emotionally desires to feel needed by someone else.

Escapism is another Neptunian common denominator. The victim wants to escape responsibility for making a success of her life, and the "saviour" isn't about to engage in tough love and pragmatics.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 09:58 AM
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Re: Savior-victim relationship and Neptune

You could have a read of this article about the drama triangle that's created in saviour/victim relationships.

What happens is that you go round the triangle, from Rescuer to Victim to Persecutor.

It's a problem of all neptunian types and also if Virgo (the servant/slave of others) or the 6th house are involved too.

Oh, and strong Saturns, that too easily feel responsible for sorting out other people's personalities or messes.

http://www.lynneforrest.com/articles...ces-of-victim/
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Unread 11-21-2013, 10:19 AM
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Re: Savior-victim relationship and Neptune

This is a very good article. In reality, we see that a lot and sometime when we are lack of self awareness, denied own power will start to blame other people and refused to take responsibility and actions of our life. It is very sad and truly is weakening of the self.

On reverse those whom like to play savior is just as bad as they can only see self worth through saving and sacrificing themselves endlessly to gain self worth. To me that is also very pathetic behavior cause as if they secret getting the satisfactions of being a savior for other people deep inside that is a selfish ego inflating intention, at the same time discouraged the victim to empower himself or herself. Secretly this savior took away the power and right of the victim to become his or her own savior.

Both roles Victim and Savior are in fact egoistic form of behavior, both do not promote growth and truly liberation/empowerment of the divine soul.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 10:26 AM
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Re: Savior-victim relationship and Neptune

When a native found the balance of between both Savior and Victim also getting the right attitude, truly Savior is within ourselves the one who truly wants to help to empower the other person to discover self internal power and strength instead of assisting further co-independence. The more you assisted the more you had taken away the other person's true power.

The liberation of the soul should be the union of the yourself as well as the universe in both darkness and light. In both darkness and light, the native should be able to nurture him or herself as a savior of one's own being and accept the nurturing from the universe. Not through playing neither victim or savior but to be both victim and savior within while liberates him or herself independently from this cycle.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 10:42 AM
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Re: Savior-victim relationship and Neptune

Very good points, Poyi.

Now you mentioned power, let's say that Pluto is very often involved in the saviour/rescuer dynamic. Perhaps the Pluto in Virgo generation will be the 'worst' examples of this.

Some of us have Pluto in Virgo conjunct our parents' Neptunes, so where they are now aged and to some extent acting helpless and needy, our Pluto is activated to take control of their lives. It's quite possible that if visited by someone different, whose Pluto wasn't in that position, they would act quite empowered and capable.

Your points about the ego-boosting that's going on are apt too. I have Pluto in my 2nd house.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 10:52 AM
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Re: Savior-victim relationship and Neptune

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea View Post
Very good points, Poyi.

Now you mentioned power, let's say that Pluto is very often involved in the saviour/rescuer dynamic. Perhaps the Pluto in Virgo generation will be the 'worst' examples of this.

Some of us have Pluto in Virgo conjunct our parents' Neptunes, so where they are now aged and to some extent acting helpless and needy, our Pluto is activated to take control of their lives. It's quite possible that if visited by someone different, whose Pluto wasn't in that position, they would act quite empowered and capable.

Your points about the ego-boosting that's going on are apt too. I have Pluto in my 2nd house.
I also have Pluto in the 2nd house. I encourage self empowerment. And I encourage people to see they can be their own savior.
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Unread 11-21-2013, 11:09 AM
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Re: Savior-victim relationship and Neptune

Ha, ha, I read how you nurse your patients on another thread just now, Poyi. That is really very good. I must work on this myself. You have really helped me with that comment. Thank you. x
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Unread 11-22-2013, 10:56 AM
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Re: Savior-victim relationship and Neptune

This thread is making me laugh at myself so much. I'm Cancerian with my descendant in Libra. Right on the descendant I have Saturn and Neptune within an arm's length of each other. Is it any wonder I ended up working for an organisation called Victim Support many years ago?
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  #10  
Unread 11-30-2016, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea View Post
You could have a read of this article about the drama triangle that's created in saviour/victim relationships.

What happens is that you go round the triangle, from Rescuer to Victim to Persecutor.

It's a problem of all neptunian types and also if Virgo (the servant/slave of others) or the 6th house are involved too.

Oh, and strong Saturns, that too easily feel responsible for sorting out other people's personalities or messes.

http://www.lynneforrest.com/articles...ces-of-victim/
Just came across this article and had to bump it. This is the answers I've been looking for that completely explains a lot of resentment I've been feeling.
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  #11  
Unread 12-23-2016, 11:54 PM
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Re: Savior-victim relationship and Neptune

Being the "savior", "teacher", "guru" or any other "fixing" dynamic is dangerous - unless you are doing it IMPERSONALLY. As soon as you become involved (embroiled, having it be personal) a whole new dynamic is involved....and that is the emotional mechanism.

Once this happens the "helper"-"fixer" is part of the problem instead of part of the solution. It makes the person (the helper) vulnerable to a LOT of neurotic issues and other parts of the victim's problems and he/she can find her/himself drowning in the victims psychological goop.

And the consequence of this "help" can be that the victim is not helped or changed, he can blame the "helper" for some of the problems, can be totally ungrateful for any help...even resentful....or take the help and move on....because who wants to be in a dynamic where the other person is smarter, better, healthier, wiser..... few people..at least this is what I have observed.

Often the "victim" wants to be the "savior" to someone even more dysfunctional than he/she is. This is very mystifying....and rightly so, because at the center of this issue is always NEPTUNE. The delusion that one can "fix" another's deep emotional issues.
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