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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #1  
Unread 03-21-2021, 09:51 PM
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Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today




As illustrated


Sun alone determines Day
Sun is NEVER visible at night
and
Sun rules a Day time house
because
Sun is visible ONLY during Day



Unlike Sun
Moon IS visible at night
ONLY because Moon REFLECTS light of Sun

and so

Moon rules a night time house
because
even if
Moon at certain phases MAY BE visible during Day
however
even an almost full moon is nothing close to the brightness of sun
Sun outshines Moon during Day






.

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  #2  
Unread 03-22-2021, 09:55 PM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

*



Ancient Hellenistic astrologers based their concept of SECT
on THE TWO LIGHTS

aka

Sun and Moon



Sun alone determines Day
Sun is NEVER visible at night
Sun is visible ONLY during Day


Moon IS visible at night
ONLY because Moon REFLECTS light of Sun
Moon at certain phases MAY BE visible during Day
however
is nothing close to the brightness of sun



Think about the word "...Sect...." and its connotations
as BobZemco said:
A Sect is comparable to a Faction
which is a group of people acting together
within a larger group
such as a clan, a clique, a cabal, a bloc
for example the East Bloc: a faction, a sect, sub-set of Europe
i.e.
a band of people, a crew and so on


Astrology is based on ordered hierarchies
like charts
and then groups of Planets
such as
the Nocturnal Planets
and
the Diurnal Planets

the Masculine Planes
and
the Feminine Planes


the Cold Planets
and
the Hot Planets, and so on.



SECT has two factions:


the Diurnal Planets are the Day Crew
the Day Shift
the Day Cabal
the Day Bloc
the Day Clan and so on


and

the Nocturnal Planets are the Night Crew
Night Shift
Night Cabal
Night Bloc
Night Clan and so on.



Note that each Faction has A LIGHT:

Sun for Day
Moon for Night
and
because of that, they have different conditions to meet.



.
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Unread 03-22-2021, 11:06 PM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

They don't. They are the King and Queen of the heaven. Zodiacally (I coined this term today) one rules the masculine half and the other rules the feminine half.
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Unread 03-23-2021, 09:23 AM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
They don't. They are the King and Queen of the heaven. Zodiacally (I coined this term today) one rules the masculine half and the other rules the feminine half.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoldOrFold View Post

I like to bring this picture out now and again
because

it perfectly illustrates
the symmetry in the traditional planetary rulerships.

Notice in the picture, the planets are in descending order
and the signs follow one after the other.

The co-rulerships are symmetrical.








Quote:
Originally Posted by HoldOrFold View Post

^ If you take some time to really think about that, it's pretty amazing.

- In general, I have found in personal cases that

people tend to embody their traditional ruling planet
As for Saturn ruling Aquarius, consider these points:

- Aquarius is cold and aloof
- Aquarius is about the community

(community is structured, bound by traditions and regulations)
- Aquarius is opposite Leo, the ego, ruled by the Sun.

Saturn is furthest away from the Sun.
Opposite to ego
(communal again)
- Just like Capricorn expands materially
using Saturn's laws of boundaries and structures
Aquarius does so to but more so with ideas and concepts.
These signs are not stagnating in Saturn
they understand and make use of it
and there is growth happening in their sphere of influence.

- Saturn is exalted in Libra.
Thinking about that for awhile
helps you
to break loose from
the typical doom and gloom associated
with Saturn
and
understand it's rulership over Aquarius.



.
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Unread 03-24-2021, 10:20 AM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

*



SECT is linked to natal location of Sun and Moon in a chart
because
SECT is determined by
whether chart is
a Day chart
or
a Night chart

INTERESTINGLY

Manilius composed his ASTRONOMICA
the oldest surviving complete book of Hellenistic astrology
in the 1st century CE
and noted (Book II, lines 203-222)
a diversity of opinion regarding the sect of the signs.

MANILIUS himself actually favored
a sect classification that is no longer used by traditional astrologers.
"...Fail not to perceive and from true rule deduce
what signs are nocturnal, and what diurnal:
they are not those that perform their function in darkness
or daylight (the name would apply to all alike
since at regular intervals they shine at every house
and now the nocturnal ones accompany the day
and now the nocturnal ones accompany the night)
but those on which nature, mighty parent of the universe
bestowed sacred portions of time in a permanent location.

The signs of the Archer and the fierce Lion
he who looks round on the golden fleece of his back [Aries],
then the Fishes and the Crab and the Scorpion of stinging lash
signs either adjacent or spaced at equal intervals
are all under like estate termed diurnal.

The others, identical in number
and in the pattern of their spacing
for they are inserted into as many places, are called nocturnal
[i.e. there are six of them opposite the six diurnal signs
and with the same pattern]
.
Some have also asserted that the diurnal stations [signs]
belong to the six consecutive stars [signs] which begin with the Ram
and that the six from the Balance [Libra] count as nocturnal.

There are those that fancy that the masculine signs are diurnal
and that the feminine class rejoices in the safe cover of darkness.
Goold trans., 1977, p.
99-101



.
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Unread 03-25-2021, 11:03 PM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

*


Planets in SECT are not essentially dignified
but they are more helpful and less harmful

In the case of the lesser malefic MARS
and
the greater malefic SATURN
both are less malefic when in sect
than they would otherwise be when not in sect.

and
similarly

lesser benefic VENUS
and
greater benefit JUPITER
are both more benefic when in sect
than they would otherwise be when not in sect



So, it's a helpful versus harmful placement.




.
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  #7  
Unread 03-26-2021, 11:11 PM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

*




Sun is Leader of the Day Sect aka Faction


Moon is Leader of the Night Sect aka Faction



Quote:


.....about sect, I do think it is of great relevance.

Sect is based on the concept of day(masculine) and night(femenine) as mossadrai stated, and its one of the core principles in which astrology is founded. This principle classifies signs into 2 distinct sets: diurnal signs (fire and air) and nocturnl signs (water and earth).

- Diurnal planets (Sun, Jupiter, Saturn) are by default out of sect in every nocturnal chart.
- Nocturnal planets (Moon, Venus, Mars) are by default out of sect in every diurnal chart.
- Mercury belongs to the diurnal sect if it rises as a morning star, and of the nocturnal sect if it sets as an evening star.

You may also notice that diurnal planets rule diurnal(male) triplicity signs, and nocturnal planets rule nocturnal(female) triplicity signs. Sect in itself derives into the reason as to why "trines" and "sextiles" are generally seen as "easy" aspects because they unite planets in signs of the same sect.

The part about the in-sect planets being above the horizon is the explanation to the concept of Hayz, in which a planet is better suited when above the horizon, and in a sign of its own sect. The implication is that the planets can express its qualities better this way, because the 7th-12th axis is connected to the exterior world. Consider that most of the more powerful and weak houses are all on this axis except for the "1st" house (7th/10th/11th an 8th/12th). Being in a sign of its own sect also makes the qualities of the planet better expressed, because the planet combines well with the sign.

I consider the principle of sect of great importance in chart reading even today. It provides information relevant to the planet.

For example, when we judge a problematic chart we always look at the out of sect malefic, which has the most potential for trouble on the chart, Saturn for night charts, and Mars for diurnal charts. The same applies for the benefic planets when looking for favourable placements, with Jupiter being particularly benefic in diurnal charts, and Venus being particularly benefic in nocturnal charts. A trine or sextile from a planet to your in sect benefic is considered a very good placement. A square or opposition to your out of sect malefic is considered a very bad placement.

Personally I do use the concept of sect, heavily in birth charts because it is the core stone of astrological principle. Pretty much every astrological concept is derived from sect.

...............
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  #8  
Unread 03-28-2021, 06:30 PM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

I would thought Cancer would rule the sun in the first month of the northern hemisphere summer, but traditional astrologers (and all versions) agreed the sign Cancer only rules the moon. Leo is in the second and hotter month of the summer season here in Asia, Europe and North America. Some ancient tribal religions and cultures believed the moon is male, but because of menstruation follows a 29-day cycle in women's bodies, they attributed female reproduction to the moon with it's 29-day lunar cycle not in sync with the 365-day solar year.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 03-28-2021, 06:36 PM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

Sun is Leader of the Day Sect aka Faction

Moon is Leader of the Night Sect aka Faction
The Sun’s nature is to select
The Moon’s nature is to gather and include



The Planets
in each Faction/Sect

operate best when they are similarly situated

i.e.
Day Planets are Above Earth with the Sun
in Masculine Signs/Houses


Night Planets are Below Earth in a Day Chart
but Above Earth in a Night Chart
and
in Feminine Signs/Houses.


Diurnal aka Day Planets like to be in Diurnal Signs
which are the same thing as Masculine Signs.


Nocturnal Planets aka Night Planets like to be in Nocturnal Signs
which is the same thing as Feminine Signs



.
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Unread 03-29-2021, 01:21 PM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

*


SUN is closely linked to the determination of SECT



Sun
is not automatically in-Sect in a Day Chart.
Sect doctrine often is confusing for beginners

SUN is in-Sect

only if one of the following conditions is met:


1 Sun in 10th, 11th or 12th Houses = Masculine Quadrant

2 If Sun does not meet condition 1
then
Sun must be in the 7th or 9th Houses
which

although in the Feminine Quadrant
BUT
those HOUSES are MASCULINE.



3 If Sun is in 8th House
then Sun must be in a Masculine Sign.



.





.
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Unread 04-23-2021, 09:53 PM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

*



Sun rules day, Moon rules night




Quote:


Moon completes sidereal cycles with 27.32166 days and anomalistic cycles with 27.55454 days.

Ascending Node completes retreating sidereal cycles with 18.61295 years.
Moon is moistening and moderately heating, benefic, feminine and nocturnal. Moon makes those born under her white, with fine figure, beautiful eyes, having excess of moist. Moon controls life, light, kingship, the household, high priesthood, affluence, gathering of the masses, foresight, the body, travel, fortune, appearance, outcomes, possessions, cohabitation, housekeeping, gains and expenditures, cities, assemblies, ships, the mother and the conception, the respiratory system, the upper gastrointestinal tract, the eyesight, especially the left eye, glass and reflection, silver, white colours and salty tastes. It is chronocrator over infancy up to the 4th year.


Sun completes sidereal cycles with 365.25636 days and anomalistic cycles with 365.25963 days.
Sun is heating and moderately drying, common, masculine and diurnal. Sun makes those born under him with brightness, fine figure and manly eyes, having excess of hot. Sun controls action, light, kingship, leadership, high priesthood, reputation, authority over the masses, high rank, the mind, motion, loftiness of fortune, dealings with the gods, judgement, providence, friendship, the father, public matters, honours consisting of images, statues and garlands, the circulatory system, the nervous system, the eyesight, especially the right eye, wheat and barley, gold, bright colours and bitter tastes. It is chronocrator over early adulthood up to the 41st year.



Bibliography:
Robbins, F. E. (1940). Ptolemy: Tetrabiblos. William Heinmann, London. Retrieved from
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...blos/home.html
Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. Retrieved from https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf

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Unread 04-27-2021, 07:04 PM
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Re: Why Sun And Moon Rule Only One House Each In Traditional Astrology Today

*




I already posted it on skyscript, but I will post it here as well

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10059


Quote:


First, the Old Astrologers set up the birth chart of the world as following - The Ascendant and the Moon at the 15th degree of Cancer, the Sun at the 15th degree of Leo, Mercury at the 15th degree of Virgo, Venus at the 15th degree of Libra, Mars at the 15th degree of Scorpio, Jupiter at the 15th degree of Sagittarius and Saturn at the 15th degree of Capricorn. The degrees are preserved by Firmicus Maternus and some of them by Paulus Alexandrinus.

They assigned them such, because of the order of the spheres, the twelve images that underlie them and the summer solstice at the 15th degree of Cancer. Thus they put the ascendant and the Moon at the summer solstice in the middle of Cancer and Saturn and the descendant at the winter solstice in the middle of Capricorn. Aries and Libra are clearly equinoctial, while Cancer and Capricorn are clearly tropical.

They assigned the rest of the domiciles and spheres of influence the same for the rest of the signs in the order of the seven-zone sphere of Nechepso and Petosiris.

Then they or their successors put the exaltation of the Sun in Aries at the Midheaven, for there the day starts to increase over the night at the 15th degree and spring commences, the sign is of the royal triplicity, trine to Leo and is quadrupedal. They put the exaltation of the Sun at the 19th degree for that is the number of the years of the Sun which itself is derived from the Enneadecaeteris. Each star has its depression at the point in opposition to its exaltation. The depression shows adherence (3 degree range) with the exaltation of Saturn.

Then they put the exaltation of the Moon in Taurus for it is sextile to Cancer and: since the moon, coming to the conjunction in the exaltation of the sun, in Aries, shows her first phase and begins to increase her light and, as it were, her height, in the first sign of her own triangle, Taurus, this was called her exaltation, and the diametrically opposite sign, Scorpio, her depression. - Robbins, F. E. (1940). Tetrabiblos (Vol. 435). Loeb Classical Library.
Venus and Mars “depress” both luminaries because the sun has its exaltation in Aries and its depression in Libra, where it causes the day to become shorter. The moon has its exaltation in Taurus and its depression in Scorpio, where it causes the cosmic disappearance of light. - Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley.
They put the exaltation of the Moon at the 3rd degree, for there, in relation to the exaltation degree of the Sun, the Moon shows her first phase and becomes increasing in light. This became known as the concept of the loosing of the bond in chapter 38 of the Thesaurus in Antiochus of Athens. Similarly, Valens does not allow the Moon as Predominator if he is under the beams (15 degrees range) or in Scorpio. The depression shows the cosmic disappearance of light.

Then they put the exaltation of Saturn in Libra, for there the day starts to decrease to the night at the 15th degree and autumn commences, the sign is of the same triplicity as Aquarius. They put the exaltation of Saturn at the 21st degree of Libra for there Saturn strikes the Sun with a ray within 3 degrees, which is destructive unless a benefic intervenes. The depression also shows presence with the Sun, which is worse.

Then they put the exaltation of Jupiter in Cancer, of the prolific triplicity, trine to Pisces, also watery, at the longest day and where he strikes with a ray the Sun and the Moon. The latter lead to the increased range for striking with a ray - with the Moon of 13 degrees (average day speed), present in Porphyry. The depression shows presence with Mars.

Then they put the exaltation of Mars in Capricorn, for there the day is shortest at the 15th degree and is sextile to Scorpio and square to the Sun. They put the exaltation degree at the 28th for then the malefics besiege a 7 degrees range in Aries, which led to the origin of the concept of containment which requires 7 degrees according to Antiochus. Jupiter does not intervene for the square ray of Mars. The depression also shows the same affliction for the Sun.

Then they put the exaltation of Venus in Pisces, for it also is nocturnal planet and is also sextile to Taurus. Furthermore She is a morning star there and Pisces is a prolific sign compared to Virgo. They put the exaltation degree at the 27th for then it is 12 degrees away from trine ray of Jupiter. The Moon and Venus are moved by 12 degrees from their original placements and are 18 degrees away from the spring equinox. The rays that are considered intervening in the length of life are 12 for Jupiter and 8 for Venus (related to the Egyptian years).

Then they left the exaltation of Mercury in Virgo at the 15th degree, for it is the original Thema Mundi placement, and only there can the Sun be in its domicile. Mercury has no sect so it does not have its exaltation in sextile or trine. Mute Pisces is opposite it.

Balbilus uses the 129 years of the planets along with the 128 exaltation degrees with his time lord technique. The Egyptian years of the Moon are derived from a phase, and the years of the other 5 stars are derived from their relation to the Sun, as was the rationale for the exaltation signs and degrees.

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