Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon?

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
If Sun is conjunct Mercury, Jupiter, and ASC, is the moon also conjunct those? Is the reception of each transferable?
1. Sun and Moon are not conjunct as explained they are "as if conjunct". Therefore your Moon is not conjunct Mercury, Jupiter or your ASC.

2. However your Libra planets Sun, Mercury, Jupiter and your ASC are all in the Exaltation of Saturn and your Pisces Moon is in the Terms of Saturn - if you check in which Terms your Mercury, Jupiter and ASC are located then you can discover any reception or lack of it. You have said you are already considering the influence of the Monomoiria. :smile:
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Thanks, astrologer50, that is actually why I started looking at whole sign. :smile: In Placidus and Equal house Jupiter conjuncts my ASC/1st house "cusp" and because Jupiter conjuncts Mercury conjuncts Sun, it seemed it would pull those into the 1st house as well. My understanding is that 12th house is cadent, but planets in the same sign as the ASC cannot be cadent? As the cusp is in Libra, it just made more sense for all the planets in Libra to be in 1 and not 12. So the "cusps" or sensitive points of the houses are now in the middle of the house and not on the boarder.

Planets in the same sign as the ASC when using Whole Sign Houses are not Cadent.


The Strongest House position for a planet is either 1st, 4th, 7th or 10th House
Also, as you have said and as dr. farr very usefully explained earlier, the "cusps" or sensitive points of the houses are now in the middle of the house and not on the border.

The cusps of course may appear anywhere in a Sign as they are based on the degree of the ASC :smile:




.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
And lastly, wouldn't this parallel form in the charts of everyone born in the hours preceeding a lunar eclipse?

For an Eclipse to happen at all, the Sun, Earth, and Moon must be aligned, not only in Celestial Longitude, but also in Celestial Latitude (and therefore, in Declination). However, while this alignment in Celestial Longitude happens every 29.53 days, the alignment in Celestial Latitude can only happen near one of the Nodes, or the Nodal Axis. So, an Eclipse requires that there be either a New Moon (Solar Eclipse), or a Full Moon (Lunar Eclipse), near one of the Nodes. The limits upon Eclipses are called Major and Minor Ecliptic Limits.
Major Ecliptic Limit: A Lunar Eclipse MAY occur if there is a Full Moon within 11° 38' (Celestial Longitude), of a Node, and a Solar Eclipse MAY occur if there is a New Moon within 17° 25' of a Node.
Minor Ecliptic Limit: A Lunar Eclipse MUST occur if there is a Full Moon within 9° 39' (Celestial Longitude), of a Node, and a Solar Eclipse MUST occur if there is a New Moon within 15° 23' of a Node.
If a New or Full Moon occurs within 5° of a Node, the Eclipse will be Total or Annular.
Additionally:
For a Lunar Eclipse to occur, the Moon's Celestial Latitude at Full Moon cannot exceed about 55', and for that Lunar Eclipse to be Total, Celestial Latitude cannot exceed 26'.

For a Solar Eclipse to occur, the Moon's Celestial Latitude cannot exceed 1° 27', and must be less than 58' for the Solar Eclipse to be Total or Annular.

here's a link to eclipse data for beginners
:smile:

http://www.mreclipse.com/Special/LEprimer.html




.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I want to take a second to say that this thread has introduced more advanced concepts and interpretations, as well as a wealth of familiarity (not quite comprehension...but getting there) that I don't think I would have gotten this early in the game without it. Thanks, to everyone who has been helping me. :smile: I appreciate the fact that all time invested here is purely voluntary and comes from wanting to help. I hope someone other than I can also get something from this discussion.

JUPITERASC has rendered an exceptional explanation of the factors involved here relative to this natal Sun/Moon situation!!
Can we name this aspect? :biggrin:

No need to name this aspect because the aspect you refer to is already named an opposition and/or parallel. In this particular case, your Pisces Moon is applying to an opposition and/or parallel of your Libra Sun.


...“As with all "cookbook" interpretations, there are a variety of ways these aspects can manifest themselves. Different authors interpret specific aspects differently. As well, all aspects should be read within the context of the natal chart. For this reason, the interpretations should be used as a starting point only...”

DECLINATIONS: Another dimension to your astrology chart is concerned with planets being the same distance from the celestial equator. When both planets are on the same side of this plane there are called parallel. When the planets are the same distance but on opposite sides of the celestial equator they are referred to as being contra-parallel. Both of these aspects activate your ability to organize and reorganize some aspect of your life, depending on the planets and luminaries involved

(cookbook) Sun Parallel Moon: The foundations of the early life experiences and the nature of the family of origin play a large role in your life. There is great restlessness and need for emotional foundations in order to accomplish much else in life. You eventually figure this out and get what you need as you have great untapped capacity for emotional integration. With the acquisition of positive habits and home life, all else is good.

As ever, Deborah Houlding provides a comprehensive table of Traditional Degree Influences, including Pitted or deep at this link
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/deginf1.html

Degrees deep or pitted … have this signification, that if either the Moon or the degree ascending or lord of the Ascendant be in any of them, it shows the man at a stand in the question he asks, not knowing which way to turn himself and that he had need of help to bring him into a better condition; for as a man cast into a ditch doth not easily get out without help, so no more can this querent in the case he is without assistance. (CA., p.118):smile:
.
 

Lin

Well-known member
I did not read all the replies. In case no one pointed it out, your Moon opposes your Sun AND your Uranus. In order to know this you just have to do the math. An opposition's orb is valid at within at least 8 degrees. I allow another degree or two for both Sun and Moon and angular houses.

So you have Moon opp Sun/Uranus.

LIN
 

VirgoLife

Well-known member
I am 89% certain that I have this correctly, but being really new, I wanted to see if I could get corroboration. I have natal Sun in Libra opposed mathematically Moon in Pisces. I say this because my understanding is that really, Libra cannot oppose Pisces, but rather is inconjunct by sign. However...

The question first came up on this forum in a different thread.

Sun is at 2*14'37" Libra, and Moon is at 27*45'44" Pisces. Sun declination is 0*53'33 S, Moon 0*19'50" S. That's less than half a degree? (I hate math :sad:) The lunar eclipse on 9/25/1969 occured at 4:21pm, just about 6 hours after my birth. This makes Sun conjunct Moon by Parallel Declination? Should all Lunar Eclipses be read as conjunctions? And if this is correct (a really big assumption!) how would this conjunction be read in a natal chart? I have attached the chart, but which house would it affect? Further, if indeed a conjunction, would that make Moon conjunct and not opposed the Libra stellium?

Thanks to any who reply. :happy:

View attachment 22081

That's because your sun is 2 degrees. That's really close to virgo and that's what pisces opposites. I'm a Virgo with a Pisces moon, means you were born during a full moon. It might be different for you though. My pluto is in 9th house 28 degrees conjunct MC. I consider it in the 10th house bc that description matches me more. You see it's 2 degrees away, that still counts because it's close, similar to your case.
 

VirgoLife

Well-known member
astrologer50, thank you for the links. Those to the parallel conjunction I have already read, and they are all stingy with information at best. I noticed however that you bolded the Contraparallel links. Does this mean you read a lunar eclipse as a contraparallel, and stress the opposition? From the data tables available at astro.com, and in any house system, both Sun and Moon in the chart are on the same side of the celestial equator, and not one north and one south as referenced above. Am I missing something? If I am please, show me where?

As far as starting with the basics, I think that understanding one's own natal chart is where we all begin? Sun opposed Moon is quite different from Sun conjunct moon?

Sun conjunct moon means you were born during a New Moon.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I am 89% certain that I have this correctly, but being really new, I wanted to see if I could get corroboration. I have natal Sun in Libra opposed mathematically Moon in Pisces. I say this because my understanding is that really, Libra cannot oppose Pisces, but rather is inconjunct by sign. However...

The question first came up on this forum in a different thread.
For me, the answer is that they are AS IF IN STRONG CONJUNCTION since they are in close Parallel; that means their influence would be as if Sun and Moon were conjunct, but WITHOUT the combustion that would otherwise have been involved IF they had been conjunct in longitude.

Further, I follow the doctrine that a P trumps a conjunction in longitude.
Thank you, dr. farr. :smile: Since they are conjunct, with the moon in both the terms (Ptolemaic and Egyptian) and face of Mars, in this chart exalted in Capricorn, would that provide any reception for the square between Sun in 1st and Mars in 4th?

Libra Sun conjunct Pisces Moon? Not exactly. A conjunction differs from a parallel and vice-versa and dr. farr has explained that your Sun and Moon are as if conjunct(therefore not conjunct by Sign) but instead, conjunct by nature

Studying you Sun, Moon and Mars we find:
1. Your Pisces Moon is in the Exaltation of Venus, the Domicile of Jupiter, the Terms of Saturn and in the Triplicity as well as Face of Mars
and
2. Your Libra Sun (in Fall) in the Domicile of Venus is in Saturn's Exaltation, the Triplicity as well as Terms of Saturn and the Face of the Moon,
and
3. Your Exalted Capricorn Mars in Saturn's Domicile, is in the Triplicity, Terms and Face of Venus,

clearly, Saturn is one of the links for some mixed receptions but has no dignity (Venus provides a link also, however we are focussing on Saturn at the moment, due to Mars Exalted nature)
4. Your Saturn is in the Domicile as well as the Triplicity of Venus, the Exaltation of the Moon and the Terms and Face of Mercury
So, although your Libra Sun is received by Saturn, Saturn has no dignity and is therefore Peregrine

Both Saturn and the Sun apparently have no dignity so both are Peregrine
(however tell me if you notice something to the contrary!) :smile:

When a planet is in its own terms it is recognized as being in a situation of temporary strength, even though it may not otherwise be suited to the sign it is in. For example, Saturn is in detriment in Leo, yet if it is in the first 6 degrees it is in its own terms so this overall condition of weakness is somewhat alleviated. Ezra referred to such a planet as "like a man in his seat". We could compare the situation to someone who rents or owns a holiday villa abroad. The country may be generally unfamiliar but there is a sense of security when surrounded by one's own possessions. Source: Deborah Houlding, Skyscript


and here's a link to a Table of The Monomoria http://www.projecthindsight.com/images/TablesPDFs/Tb2-Monomoria.pdf source: Project Hindsight Robert Schmidt
Hi JerryRR. Thanks for putting up that chart data.
Hi tsmall. I've been really glad of this thread and will look more closely at parallels and contraparallels in the future. Thank you.
As for whether, in Whole Sign houses a planet approaching the cusp of the next house is considered to be in that house (as is the case with other house systems) I do not know. It would make sense I suppose if the same rules applied to houses as signs in the Whole Sign system, since the sign and house cusps are so tightly bound together - i.e. it is where is is, and not in the house/sign it is nearly in.

In Whole Sign houses

a planet in a Sign is in that Sign and no other.

So your Pisces Moon tsmall is unequivocally in 6th House
using Whole Sign Houses

- however, many thanks to dr farr
who previously posted on a different thread
a great explanation of the original meaning of the word '...cusp...'
Cusps: Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts), but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp": it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something, and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point"; now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning", which later came to mean its "border", ie, the "border" between one house and the other. And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this: in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded! In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house, was the sensitive point of that house, viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses-each house-that is the "cusp" of each house-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.
Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point") that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc, and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)
Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything, but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree) for timing (and other) delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time-ie, late 8th to early 9th century-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices, rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West, and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

source http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39669&page=3
 
Top